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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 1:10 pm 
She sat hunched over and had a scowling look on her face.
I saw this as because of the rain falling in her face, she seemed to have the worst seat with the most rain discomfort.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 2:19 pm
I doubt you re-read all of mine either, before responding?
Actually I do read everyone’s posts on a topic before responding. I also understand that not everyone has the time, energy or interest to do that and I empathize with that.
FWIW, I agree that Survivor has a historically bad reputation for how it has depicted black contestants.
And I repeat, unconscious racism has nothing to do with privilege, so I don't understand the question. Never has. It's about including (or not) people who are similar to you.
You’re saying that Rocksroy was voted out because of unconscious racism?
They have lots of black contestants now and at some point some of them are inevitably going to get voted out. As soon as that happens, people start talking about racism. So my question is, are the people who voted Rocksroy out racist? Why is that relevant? Because it was that decision that triggered the discussion of racism.
Kappy mentioned production interference to create drama. It’s like they had a good idea this was going to happen. Old Jeff with his nodding and winking over how the second tribe may react when they see who was voted out. Talk about telegraphing it.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 2:47 pm
Actually I do read everyone’s posts on a topic before responding.
I didn't say that. I do read them all too. I just don't *re-read* before responding in an ongoing dicussion. 
No one is talking about overt racism or privilege. Unconscious bias is not the same as racism.
As soon as that happens, people start talking about racism
Not really correct. No one spoke about racism or bias when Chanelle was voted out. It only came up when the FIRST two people on jury turned out to be black, and then it is a fair question I think to ask why that is. Esp because Rocksroy was the surprise choice (everyone expected Romeo to go).
You might want to do some reading about these terms to be sure we are all using them in the same way. I took Jeff's wink/nod to be about everyone assuming Romeo would be gone. Do you know something different? Or just assuming?
And with that I'm out.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 2:51 pm
I empathize with Drea and Maryanne and feel bad for the things they have had to face in their life. I can also see why they were distressed to see two black people on the jury. However, I don’t think that Rocksroy was voted out for racist reasons. It’s not always about race.
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Grooch
Member
06-16-2006
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 2:54 pm
Iluvreality said Even offering the reward to Maryanne she said I don’t like peanut butter and jelly with kinda a sour look on her face. I’m sure if it were something really good she would have been all for it. Maybe she is too good for peanut butter and jelly🤷♀️
Iluv, I took it differently. I thought Drea was acting like that on purpose to not arouse any suspicion. She knew there was an advantage hidden out on that floatie thing and needed an excuse to get out there. All the others were clueless.
Which reminds that Tori saw the paint on Drea's arm and saw the outline of a clue in her shorts. I wonder if anything came of that.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 2:56 pm
You seriously think Jeff Probst thought people would have cared if Romeo was voted out?
Unconscious bias is not the same as racism.
Sure. But we are talking about racism because that’s what Drea and Maryanne and Jeff Probst were talking about. Maybe they need to do some reading?
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 3:02 pm
But we are talking about racism because that’s what Drea and Maryanne and Jeff Probst were talking about
No they weren't, listen again and read Maryann's quote above, but yes, perhaps their language needed to be more precise.
You seriously think Jeff Probst thought people would have cared if Romeo was voted out?
That's not what I said or meant, and partly because I just don't seem to be able to communicate clearly with you...
quote:And with that I'm out.
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Grooch
Member
06-16-2006
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 3:06 pm
Jimmer, I don't think he was voted out because of race. He started the men's alliance and the younger guys were roped in and didn't want to do that. And quite a few of them have said he was inflexible.
The manipulators want to manipulate and they couldn't do that to Rocksroy.
It will be interesting to see how that decision plays out next week when the 2 teams are back together. Mike was upset about voting him out because he had given Rocksroy his word, but I guess he was forced to go along with the others, or be the odd man out. He was afraid he would lose the trust of the people on the 2nd team.
And Jonathon was in an alliance with Rocksroy, so how is he going to take it? He won't be able to trust Omar or Hai. Who does he have left to trust?
Hai and Omar have a lot of explaining to do and did they play their hand to soon?
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 3:06 pm
Sure. O/T but thanks for letting us know, Kar. Have a good day.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 3:09 pm
I think that’s a good analysis of what happened, Grooch. It was all gameplay, some good and some bad. Ironically, Jonathan had no desire to see Rocksroy on the jury. He was in an alliance with him.
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Scooterrific
Member
07-07-2005
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 3:13 pm
I haven't seen the end of the show yet, I'll be watching tribals after work today. But I can say,
from the discussion going on I think I'm not going to be happy with Drea and Maryann. Maybe I'm wrong, I'll have to see what the discussion was about.
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Grooch
Member
06-16-2006
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 3:28 pm
Jimmer, now, thinking about it, I have no idea what the fallout is going to be, so I'm going to have to pick Jonathon for sole survivor because he will most likely win immunity. 
And I just realized, I didn't watch the preview for next week. Did they show one?
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Grooch
Member
06-16-2006
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 3:41 pm
Ack! I just went to go put my pick in, and I see that I'm out.
Well, that makes my life easier. Lol!
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 4:05 pm
LOL Grooch! Well that's sort of a relief.
I'm sorry Kar but are you saying that discussion at tribal council was not about racism?
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Legalboxer
Member
11-17-2003
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 4:08 pm
I usually don’t post here but I am not going to stay silent when I read things like not seeing color anymore, having multiple races in a family so it doesn’t matter until it matters, or that certain people were not privileged. All of that feeds into the systemic racism that Drea and Maryanne referenced. We will never know if the fact Rocksroy was black factored into how his tribe perceived him and led to the vote on any level, but the daily exclusion, racism, discrimination people of color face is very real and very hard even on the best days, and Drea had every right to have that reaction as someone who lives life every day as a black woman. Living in a multicultural world doesn’t remove the systemic racism still embedded in society.
And while there might not be “white” privilege from those who voted for Rocksroy, we all have multi layers of privilege even if we fall into a marginalized group facing a “ism”. I have white privilege because of my skin color - nothing to do with economic status. But I also face ableism and those without a disability have the privileges of not facing the systemic and direct ableism I deal with. I am female and so males enjoy certain automatic privileges that females don’t. As a heterosexual, I am privileged in certain areas where I am not facing the homophobia and discrimination LGTBQ people deal with. My point is just because someone may be marginalized in one area doesn’t mean they don’t carry privileges in other areas, due to how society has been shaped.
So talk all we want whether race factored into Rocksroy‘s vote, but don’t try to defend the other cast members, or society in general, with language that just feeds into the situation Drea, Maryanne, Rocksroy, and other people of color face every day.
And as someone who is very very careful in what I say or how I approach people in order to avoid being seen as intellectually incompetent or unable to function in society (because sadly that is how many see people with disabilities) I totally relate to Drea’s trying to stay safe/not be stereotyped.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 4:31 pm
Hm, the preview must not have stuck with me ... oh well there were several people talking about booting Jonathan.
When Maryanne was all weepy in a previous episode and apparently influenced the votes or boot, SHE confessed that she was just using emotion to maniupulate. So I think some viewers might wonder if her emotion last night perhaps had some measure of manipulation. I tend to think not, but that could be a factor.
OK, off to maybe do some podcasts.
Oh, but Maryanne is correct that those who are not black have not had certain experiences, it is also true that those who are LBGTQ, Asian (or both), Muslim, etc, also have experienced things differently. Maryanne being a seminary student I assume is Christian (not sure and online every link says seminary but not if it is Catholic or protestant) which would be mainstream majority in US and Canada, so she has not experienced being in a minority religion.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 4:36 pm
Thank you, Legal!
A couple clarifications as I rewatch last night's show.
Jeff did no wink/nod to start the conversation. Every single one of the second tribe had a visual response to Rocksroy being voted out. Gaping mouths, big eyes, shocked faces. Jeff only asked about it "there were some reactions..." there were! Jeff didn't start anything. His question was "what does that tell you".. and it's a reminder that the game is constantly turning and churning. Lindsay says it was a surprise because we all had an assumption about where that tribe was going. So, yeah, they all thought Romeo was going to be voted out, and were surprised that he was not.
When Jeff asked if it was 'race-related', Drea clearly says "I think it was *subsconsciously* a little bit of that."
Maryann then brings up she can't write down Drea's name because it's three black people in a row. She says (correctly I think) that Survivor is about bringing the big social world into a smaller space.
Jonathon then takes offense saying the others are being called racist (that's the first time the term is used). Drea immediately says "no one ever said that' (she's correct). Then Jonathon calls Drea "aggressive." (but yeah, he's not subsconsciously racist at all... insert eye roll)
Maryann then tries to explain to Jonathon about "subsconscious bias" and Jonathon says that means I'm subconsciously racist" and Drea and Maryann again try to tell him that they are just sharing how THEY feel, and Drea says it's just a fact that a lot of times minorities get kicked off first in this game, and then the kicker...
Drea says this happens all the time... we speak and then we get shut down because people say we're calling everyone racist and we're NOT.
So, just to be clear, Jeff didn't try to start anything. And Maryann and Drea were speaking about unconscious bias, not racism.
If you doubt this, I encourage you to find a recording and re-watch it.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 4:40 pm
I also thought it was tremendously telling that Maryann decided she had to play her idol because she felt that if she didn't, and then she didn't get voted out, it was because they *used* race to stay.
I think these are fascinating issues, and I think lots of people, who are historically not part of a marginalized group, have a very hard time getting it.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 4:51 pm
Welcome back Kar.
If you look at my post above you'll see that I was not talking about what Jeff said when the tribe walked in and saw Rocksroy had been voted out. I was talking about what Jeff said before that tribal council about how the second tribe seeing who the first tribe voted out could change things. Survivor set that up.
Being upset that a black person was voted out and saying it could be subconsciously race related is talking about racism.
Once again I could say a lot about how I empathize with how Drea and Maryanne felt and that they have every right to feel that way, etc. but there isn't any point because if people don't want to hear that they won't hear that.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 5:06 pm
And I was not posting for your benefit. I was out of my conversation with you. To be clear. Still am, but you seemed confused, so I wanted to clarify.
saying it could be subconsciously race related is talking about racism.
No, it's not. Subconscious bias and racism aren't the same thing. You are quite correct, people don't hear what they don't want to hear.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-02-2002
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 5:11 pm
I thought Maryann was very eloquent last night. And her perception that if she didn't play her idol, she would be perceived as using race to avoid eviction. optics matter and the optics on these were not looking good. However, I really don't want players to think about how they can't vote someone out because they might appear racist. The votes so far have been strategic and they should stay that way. It's an interesting and important discussion.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 5:28 pm
When Jeff asked if it was 'race-related', Drea clearly says "I think it was *subsconsciously* a little bit of that."
Of course we can go on splitting hairs.
I didn’t think we were having a private conversation.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 5:54 pm
Have a lovely evening, Jimmer.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 5:56 pm
Huh? Sure. You too, Kar.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 6:11 pm
I really don't want players to think about how they can't vote someone out because they might appear racist.
That seems to be becoming an issue.
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