| Author |
Message |
Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Wednesday, April 27, 2022 - 8:58 pm 
I wonder if everyone would have thought the same if Lydia and Chanelle switched order of being voted out?
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Kappy
Member
06-28-2002
| Wednesday, April 27, 2022 - 11:42 pm
I was enjoying this cast because it was so diverse. The first black person to be voted out wasn't until the 8th person voted out. Last week Maryan used emotions (and crying) as a way to manipulate. This week it was the race card. Systemic racism is real and does needs to be talked about but when people use it to further themselves on a reality show, I feel it dilutes the problem and turns others off to hearing about it. Drea and Maryann came up with a strategy to keep from being voted out tonight, period, in my opinion.
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Juju2bigdog
Member
10-27-2000
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 12:36 am
quote:This is not the cookout.2 I thought it was a powerful tribal.
I cried my heart out tonight, and no, it is absolutely NOT cookout.2, but I applaud CBS for going there.
I probably will not live long enough to see Drea and Maryanne become the women they will become as a result of tonight's Survivor episode. I applaud all five of tonight's champion survivors, even the ones I don't especially like. They are all changed as of that tribal council, as are we, the viewers. Tonight's 2nd Tribal Council could be a game-changer in the great American meme of who we are.
C'mon, kids; Survivor is who we are. Give us a chance. Or, I will also be willing to go with Jonathan's Ponderosa. That man is a very good man, and he is learning as lot.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 12:53 am
Liking Romeo less and less. Actually liked Tori a bit but ok with her going off to the jury.
I think this was filmed pre cookout. Due to pre filming, neither group inspired the other, which is actually pretty cool.
And yes, I was thinking that this time that parchment would say safe. But she had to give it a try!
Juju, if only..
But I did think about all those others who went pre-jury, so it was not like the black survivors were targetted.
If Tori had not won immunity last week she would have been first on jury.
Anyway, it was interesting and yes, Jeff adapted to realize that they didn't have to do a secret vote.
I guess they didn't need two hours because there was one comp for immunity and reward was included in that comp.
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Naja
Member
06-28-2003
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 5:55 am
The way I saw it...No one went home because they are black. However, someone did go home because they are white.
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Iluvreality
Member
05-08-2011
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 6:06 am
True Naja
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Grooch
Member
06-16-2006
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 8:04 am
They had immunity idols and used them. Fair and square.
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Grooch
Member
06-16-2006
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 9:12 am
Argh! Just lost a long post.
But to sum it up:
1. Jonathon wanted to flush Drea's idol. Lindsey told him not to do it. Basically called him a meathead for wanting to do that. This would have put Drea on alert. Strike one.
2. They walk into tribal and see Rocksroy sitting there, not Romeo. A w*t*f moment for them all, but esp for Maryanne and Drea. They said it felt like the outside world intruding into the game. Strike two.
3. Drea says she has been careful with the way she speaks (does anyone else, besides Maryanne, feel that way) so she isn't perceived as the aggressive black woman. Meathead chimes in and tells her, "But you are!" A fear she just confessed to. Thus minimizing her feelings and being dismissive of her. Strike three!
So of course she will use her idol. And Maryanne chooses to use hers, to save the others from having to vote and have the audience scream racism about their choice, for whoever they voted for.
That's why I said last night it was a no win situation.
And I appreciated Drea's honesty about how she was feeling so I could know what was going on.
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Cinnamongirl
Member
01-10-2001
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 9:15 am
Julie and Jimmer those are both good points
If Lydia and Chanelle had switched spots in voting order, would last nights tribal been different? Yes I believe it would have been
what about the people voted out earlier than jury? they dont count? more out of sight and out of mind. Not same perception
Both Drea and Rocksroy voted Chanelle out.
I understood why they both played their idols but I was wishing Maryann had kept hers.. she doesnt have another one to fall back on. Drea has a few things, although Im not exactly sure what they are.
I have been very moved by tribals in the past, brought to tears actually.. but not this one.
I was glad it was Tori gone... but was wishing it was Hai for the mens side. Hes starting to rub me the wrong way.
Cant believe Jonathon stayed on during the challenge. I thought for sure his size would have been a major hinderance
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 9:20 am
As I try to explain often, there are often multiple causes for any event. Diluting it to any one misses the point.
Was Rocksroy voted out because he was black? Probably partially yes, because typically on these shows you form alliances and you are MOST likely to form alliances with people who are more LIKE you. That means it's more difficult for blacks to be part of primarily white alliances.
That said, it's also a matter of personality. No one like Tori. 
And it's also a matter of good game play, not on Rocksroy's part, because he was awful at the game, but definitely on Drea's part, because she was really good.
But Drea would have been protected if they would have included her in their alliance. and before you say, well, Maryann was included, that's because Maryann isn't seen as a threat, but rather someone they can manipulate. So, again, the decisions are made because of several factors, not just one. But being black IS one of those factors, we'd be naive to say it isn't.
Events are often over determined in that way.
That said, I do truly hear what Maryann and Drea were saying. Because as I noted, they are less likely to be included in alliances, simply because of who they are.
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Cinnamongirl
Member
01-10-2001
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 9:43 am
So when Chanelle was voted out by Drea and Rocksroy that was gameplay... but when Rocksroy was voted out it was probably partially because he was black?
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 9:49 am
Yes. Blacks will likely vote out each other based mostly on game play, or that they just don't like them, especially early on.
Whites will *partially* vote out blacks because they aren't included in their alliances.
Seems pretty evident to me. And of course the reasons someone is voted out change as the game goes on. In the beginning it's wise to vote out weak players. Or annoying players. Or people that are too bossy. Or that don't do any work around camp. As the game goes on, more and more the idea of who is a threat becomes more important, and the weak players get dragged along.
Just go back in Survivor history and you will see that blacks are almost never included in predominantly white alliances. It's quite similar to the "all-girl" or "all-guy" alliances too. People form alliances with people who are more like them.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 10:00 am
Statistically, based on population percentage, black people win Survivor as often as non-black people win Survivor.
Rocksroy didn’t get voted out by a bunch of privileged white people. I hate using labels but it seems it’s come to that. He got voted out by a gay Asian, another Asian from a tough background, a Muslim Canadian from a poor family and an older black guy. As Cinnamon pointed out, Drea and Rocksroy voted out Chanelle. Plus lots of other people were voted out earlier.
The first two jurors being black is not a good look and there is a huge problem with racism in America but I think it’s more optics in this particular situation than reality.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 10:29 am
Jimmer, do you have a link to those statistics? I'd like to see them.
I think you're missing the nuance of my point, but that's okay. No one said he was voted out by *privileged* white people. That's your exaggeration.
And yes, just because blacks voted for blacks does not negate the point. In fact, it makes it. Think about it.
I wish people would use compassion in their analysis of this, and not defensiveness. That is all. I can't listen to how Drea and Maryann felt without hearing with my heart, and not my worry about whether it's 100% perfectly accurate.
The fact is, this IS how they feel, and there IS a reason they feel that way. That's what you should be hearing.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 10:54 am
You make a great many assumptions about how I feel.
I don’t have a link but it’s not hard to figure out. Four black people have won Survivor. There have been 41 seasons. That’s 10%. To match the general population there should be five winners. Maybe there’ll be another this season.
I’m not at all downplaying Drea and Maryanne’s feelings and I’ve said the optics looked bad with the first two jurors being black and that there is a huge amount of systemic and subconscious racism. I can certainly see why they were emotional about it.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 11:01 am
I thought Maryanne used her idol to stay safe.
Yes, Drea and Maryanne have legitimate feelings and that they can talk about those feelings at tribal and to be aired on TV (and who knows what conversations in the past might have been left on the editing floor) is a good thing.
But in the past there often were not two black people to BE on the jury and if there were, there wouldn't have been any other black players left, so there is progress.
Percent in U.S. identifying as black or african american is 12.4
In Canada, 2.5
(that is what comes up online, but clearly we have a larger percent on Big Brother and on Survivor this year).
Drea has the amulet, an extra vote and the power to demand that someone reveal what they have and take it. Maryanne using her idol means that isn't there to be taken by Drea's power, but if someone used that power it probably would cause a backlash anyway.
I thought Maryanne had an extra vote.
And will the two idols played be re-hidden, or are we past that time?
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 11:09 am
It’s awesome that Survivor is including more people with different backgrounds but it also means more are going to be voted out. They have to be.
Look at the tribe that voted out Rocksroy. Who do people here think they should have voted out so it wouldn’t look racist or discriminatory? None of those people could be identified as privileged.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 11:28 am
You make a great many assumptions about how I feel.
I simply responded to what you posted. Feel free to clarify. .
And please forgive me if I don't go back and re-read every post you've made here before responding to your most recent post. I don't have the energy or bandwidth for that these days. I doubt you re-read all of mine either, before responding?
Thank you for the info on why you posted the conclusion you did. Note that they didn't have a black winner until they included 5 black contestants... a first for casting. If Survivor thought they were doing a good job, why did they recently vow to do better in recruiting and portraying blacks - after facing so much backlash about how they often reduced black people to racial stereotypes in their storylines/producing?
And I repeat, unconscious racism has nothing to do with privilege, so I don't understand the question. Never has. It's about including (or not) people who are similar to you.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 11:30 am
For another view, because I think it's important to listen to the voices of those who actually have been historically marginalized, moreso than those who have never experienced it:
https://www.npr.org/2020/07/01/885750685/do-right-by-us-black-survivor-alums-say-the-reality-was-harmful-stereotypes
On Cesternino's podcast, the Black alumni spoke about the stress of auditioning before rooms filled with white executives, the challenge of not offending white castmates while also trying to play the game, having fans sling racial slurs or death threats and having white castmates use racial slurs around them.}
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 11:31 am
By the way, am I the only way who was annoyed by Jonathan's "mansplaining" to Chelsea? He went down a few notches in my view. 
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Iluvreality
Member
05-08-2011
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 11:58 am
Check out Jonathan’s IG account…youngstrength…he truly does a lot for others
As far as last night’s tribal…I don’t think Maryanne would have said anything if Drae hadn’t brought it up. Maryanne has been vocal about not liking Drae many times.
Drae has been given kinda a bitter edit. Even offering the reward to Maryanne she said I don’t like peanut butter and jelly with kinda a sour look on her face. I’m sure if it were something really good she would have been all for it. Maybe she is too good for peanut butter and jelly🤷♀️
Just my opinion. I really don’t see things as race, my family has several races in it and it doesn’t matter, unless you make it matter.
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Kappy
Member
06-28-2002
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 12:27 pm
There have been many seasons on Survivor when I have wanted a person of color to stand up and point out the obvious racial divisions but this season has not been one of them. Maybe that's why I'm reacting so strongly to what I perceive as production interference to ensure the drama they want even if they have to manufacture it. The worst part is that the players are the ones who pay for it later online.
I didn't miss the point last night. Words matter.
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Sugar
Member
08-15-2000
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 12:40 pm
As Jimmer mentioned, the group that voted Rocksroy out of the game were all people often referred to as minorities, Asian, Black and Muslim so it is not a surprise that another minority person is on the jury.
I would have voted for either Rocksroy or Romeo to go because they annoy me and I doubt they would be beneficial to my game.
Count me among those amazed that Jonathon was able to win that challenge.
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Dogdoc
Member
09-29-2001
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 12:40 pm
I felt uncomfortable listening to Drey. She sat hunched over and had a scowling look on her face.
I liked listening to Maryanne. She sounded so mature.
I don't know if this is racism, but I have started to watch "Let's Make a Deal"
I find my self saying, "I bet Wayne is going to pick another Black person."
If he was white, a doubt if I would say "I bet he picks another White person.
There seems to be a lot of mistrust in dealing with people of other races.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, April 28, 2022 - 12:51 pm
I don't see how production created the drama. Drea brought it up? Jeff just asked about it when she did. And it grew from there.
Dogdoc, I do applaud Maryann, she was right on target when she said: how other people don't have to "experience that burden when they enter the game. Yes, we all technically have a 1 in 18 shot... but because we all come with our burdens and we all come with our privileges, that 1 in 18 might be bigger or smaller for some people and that sucks."
I think Maryann well articulated what it is like to be black in ANY situation in America, including Survivor.
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