| Author |
Message |
Stormie
Member
03-01-2007
| Thursday, April 15, 2010 - 2:21 pm 
Calamity you are absolutely right, I didn't even think about free will, that makes sense. Wasn't it that mom who said she wanted to see her son again and asked about paradise, but Dean or Castiel told her it was more likely the other place--something like that. I wonder if those people will be able to redeem themselves. I felt really bad that the bartender died, he seemed like one of the good guys, maybe he'll end up in the bar with Dean and Sam's friends. And I agree, mob mentality is very scary, some jump on the bandwagon and follow, regardless of what pain it causes others.
|
Scout
Member
01-20-2005
| Thursday, April 15, 2010 - 3:42 pm
I don't know if this was necessarily mob mentality.
The people of the town actually believed the apocalypse was happening. They see demons, they have a girl who is predicting when/where they'll appear. Why wouldn't they join together to try to protect themselves? It's not like they were basing everything just on the minister's word, or that the minister was just spewing propaganda to get them stirred into action. They had real enemies to fight.
When it became obvious that they'd been misled, most of them seemed to be rebelling. Only a few, including a bereaved mother, were going to obey the order to kill certain people. Even in her case, considering that they'd seen demons in all kinds of human forms, you could sort of understand why she might still believe she was doing the right thing. That those they were supposed to kill were demons like those they'd already killed. I actually felt sorry for the mother. It's not like Dean or Sam haven't done really questionable things in the name of their love for each other.
|
Stormie
Member
03-01-2007
| Friday, April 16, 2010 - 12:29 am
Maybe not a mob mentality like a group of villagers storming the castle, but like "Lord of the Flies," where people just went along with things, even when their friends were being killed.
I don't think there was any justification for locking a bunch of people in a closet, including children, with the intent of burning them, nor killing the bartender. They didn't question it, nor check on it, they just did it for their own selfish reasons, regardless of the pain to others.
Even the preacher followed, he started questioning things, but still followed. He would have continued going along with the demon, had he not been shown the truth of what was going on, but it took that, not his own inner beliefs. Blind faith leading the blind.
I don't see how anything the townspeople did relates to love. And whatever Sam and Dean have done, it also doesn't justify the actions of the townspeople. Perhaps they will be able to redeem themselves somehow.
|
Calamity
Member
10-18-2001
| Friday, April 16, 2010 - 11:03 am
They had real enemies to fight.
Yes, but those enemies weren't their friends and neighbors. And yet look how readily some turned against each other when told their tickets to Paradise might be threatened. Like I said, one could chalk that up to fear or desperation (or even "the devil made me do it", I guess) but it wasn't rational or reasonable. It was hysteria taking over and then things spiraling out of control. I understand what you're saying, Scout, but to me it really seemed like mob mentality.
Zachariah almost became interesting last night but, well, so much for that. I was a little underwhelmed by the epi after that buildup. At least Sam & Dean are back together on the same page again.
|
Scout
Member
01-20-2005
| Saturday, April 17, 2010 - 8:32 am
Calamity - I know what you mean about turning against friends and neighbors, but I believe that their thinking was rational in its own way.
You believe the end of the world is coming. You've seen what you believe to be confirming evidence. You've seen demons in all kinds of human forms, so it's not illogical to believe your friends and neighbors might also be possessed. If you honestly believed it was the end, and you believed God was telling you what had to be done and you had to make these difficult choices (especially if you'd been raised studying Old Testament stories like Abrahams's sacrifice of his own son), and you believed your eternal life depended on making these decisions, wouldn't it be rational to do as you believe you've been told to do?
I thought last night's episode was great, and I'm with you Calamity in being very glad that Sam and Dean are back on the same page.
|
Calamity
Member
10-18-2001
| Saturday, April 17, 2010 - 12:36 pm
...wouldn't it be rational to do as you believe you've been told to do?
That's a fair point and I suppose it might be true for some people - that it seemed rational. Not to me but maybe to them. I've never been that good at just doing what I'm told and even as a little kid I questioned why God would destroy most of the world because some of it was wicked. I can thank the Irish Rovers' song "The Unicorn" - a peppy ditty about how God drowned all the unicorns in the Great Flood because they were too busy frolicking in the puddles to make it to the Ark in time - for that. I"m still traumatized by that song. That one, "Puff, the Magic Dragon", and a Joan Baez song about creepy guys in woods. My dad played lots of folk music when I was growing up, lol.
I still wouldn't want to be stuck in a town of "true" believers like that though. A lot of bad things get justified in the name of religion.
|
Scout
Member
01-20-2005
| Saturday, April 17, 2010 - 12:40 pm
Calamity - I wouldn't have wanted to be in that town, either.
And I think I'm very glad I never heard the Unicorn song when I was a kid - lol.
|
Stormie
Member
03-01-2007
| Saturday, April 17, 2010 - 3:11 pm
I don't find what the townspeople did rational at all, it was very irrational. If you're going to be fighting demons, then you better make sure they are in fact demons, not innocent people. There's no excuse for following along blindly, not even a mother loosing her child.
They had a choice, just like the bartender did, but they chose to kill, rather than investigate. There are other methods to see if someone is a demon, reciting those words, holy water, and other things. They chose to kill, bc of what they wanted in return, not bc they were afraid of Demons.
The current episode was really good, I did not see Zacharia dying. I wonder if Michael took Adam and we'll see him again, I hope so, Sam and Dean could use the help, not to mention how tragic Adam's death was the first time. I'm also glad they came back together. I was worried, though, that Castiel might kill Dean, he was so angry, luckily he seemed to come back to himself too. This episode had a very interesting mix of events.
|
Cablejockey
Member
12-27-2001
| Saturday, April 17, 2010 - 5:28 pm
Did anyone watch the last episode with Adam coming back and Zachariah getting his just desserts??? It was on Thursday night here.
|
Calamity
Member
10-18-2001
| Sunday, April 18, 2010 - 2:42 pm
I did see it, Cablejockey, and briefly mentioned it in a post. Scout and Stormie also commented on the episode but I guess that got sorta lost as our philosophical discussion took the thread a bit off topic. Sorry for that.
Stormie: I also was really surprised by what happened to Zacharia. I wish we knew to whom he was talking while in that bar when everything began to shake and the bright light came. Michael? God? (But I thought he was unavailable at the moment? Which keeps reminding me of that Elvis Costello song, "God's Comic".) Someone else?
|
Lycanthrope
Member
09-19-2002
| Monday, April 26, 2010 - 4:11 pm
The last episode was cool. All the old religion gods in the house. I wish Thor would've been there, but at least Odin was. Kali was cool, too, and it was nice to see BSG cylon Rekha Sharma again.
|
Cablejockey
Member
12-27-2001
| Tuesday, April 27, 2010 - 6:25 am
Interesting episode. I liked how they incorporated all the gods of myth and legends into the mix! It seemed make sense. So weird to see Lucifer's "vessel" when I keep seeing "Jacob" from Lost.
|
Calamity
Member
10-18-2001
| Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 10:54 am
"Please be tomato soup." It's like you were reading my mind, Dean.
Seriously, where they trying to make the audience barf with this episode? I know some gods/goddesses demanded sacrifices and/or were known as devourers of souls but the writers took it pretty literally here. And it was great to see Matt Frewer but...oh man. I wanted to take a shower in Purell after that final scene.
I hope Gabriel's got at least one more trick up his sleeve because I don't want him gone for good. The foreshadowing was a little heavy-handed too, with Gabriel saying he can't kill him brother and Dean asking him "can't or won't?". The image of wings scorched on the ground was a nice touch though.
Liked Kali, loved Dean passing the elephant in the room, and Gabriel hiding his secret message to Sam & Dean on the porno tape. Apparently Gabriel's had a (belated, if you ask me) change of heart. He couldn't have told them about the rings before?!
|
Calamity
Member
10-18-2001
| Wednesday, April 28, 2010 - 11:31 am
Oh I almost forgot...since Castiel was brought back, I guess there's hope for Gabriel.
"Lucy, I'm home!"
|
Stormie
Member
03-01-2007
| Thursday, April 29, 2010 - 3:51 pm
Calamity April 18, I thought it was Michael also, bc Zacharia was calling for him. Dean had a little trick up his sleeve, so I guess Zacharia is dead now, but I wonder where Adam is.
Lycan April 26, I agree, it was such a cool episode, I wondered where the Greek gods were, or were the gods supposed to be evil types, but I don't think Odin was evil, I'm not sure. I'm glad they left the door open for Kali to come back, I hope she does, I like that character, well, as much as I can someone who tried to hurt Sam and Dean.
Calamity April 29, I was hoping the same thing, since Castiel is back, maybe Gabriel will come back. I hope so, we need a trickster angel type character--maybe Kali will be able to.
I thought lucifer was so close to getting Sam, for some reason just his presence makes me worry Sam will cave, I hope not. Very interesting episode, I'm drawn in to find out what happens next.
|
Calamity
Member
10-18-2001
| Friday, April 30, 2010 - 10:35 am
Stormie: I thought this was the most interesting episode in a while. Though I was really worried that Sam's temper was going to make him do something very bad and/or foolish when he confronted the demon. And apparently that torched door was stronger than it seemed otherwise why couldn't Dean knock it down?!
About Adam...I thought of something while watching the show last night. Supposedly he was just bait (again) for his brothers but when that failed someone (Michael?) took him anyway. Which at the time made me wonder if he would be a substitute vessel for Dean. But isn't it also possible that he could be a substitute vessel for Sam?
|
Cablejockey
Member
12-27-2001
| Friday, April 30, 2010 - 4:55 pm
I cant wait to see what Bobby will do. Will he trust Crowley? I am sure he will wish for his legs to work again.
|
Lurknomore
Member
07-07-2001
| Sunday, May 02, 2010 - 9:04 am
I can't believe I got addicted to this show. But gotta love the Winchester brothers!
There is one major point that bugs me to no end. Ok I can take all the evil demons etc running around. But why are the angels also evil? And God is MIA. Sorry but I'd like to believe there is some good fighting back (other than Casteil, who is semi-good in his dour way lolol), even if it looks like evil is winning. But to have NO good and Angels who make my skin crawl all with their own agenda's (can u say Zachariah)? Sorry that bugs me BIG time.
Free will is one thing given to us. Didn't think free will applied to God and his messengers, ya know? I'm far more spiritual than religious, but it's hard to dismiss that are forces of good out there, and just wish the show would at least acknowledge some good trying to prevail. I know it's just a TV show...but still!!!
Hard to believe that Bobby would work with any demon...or he'd be an idjiot, to quote him lolol. BUT that seems to be why they had the episode w/his dead wife...to break him down a bit.
I'm glad this devil arc is wrapping up this season and the show is coming back. I'm hoping the boys just get back to fighting evil on a lessor massive scale (you know the Apocalypse and all lolol). I liked it better when there was some more humor in the shows, and there were some victories over evil, not just all this dire doom and gloom stuff. I got real life for that lol
|
Beckie03
Member
07-05-2007
| Monday, May 03, 2010 - 7:21 pm
so i finally decided to catch up on this show (watching season 4 right now).
I'm freakin addicted.
I watched the first season and I loved it; however, I think something else was on at the same time that I had been watching longer.
And I must say...Jensen has just got hotter with every episode. His fiance is a lucky girl.
Hope I can maybe get completely caught up by this weekend...that way maybe I can watch the last few episodes on tv.
|
Stormie
Member
03-01-2007
| Tuesday, May 04, 2010 - 8:41 pm
I finally caught up, yeah. I don't trust the demon Crowley one bit, I think he's lying and has a separate agenda. I thought Crowley gave the brothers information from that demon to help them get the 3rd ring, but they never said how the brothers are getting it, or did I miss something? I just wondered how they were going to do that.
I agree Calamity, this was one of the most interesting episodes. I wondered why Dean couldn't knock down the door too, but I guess it would have been a different story if they wrote it that way. I didn't know where Sam got the strength to stop himself from killing the demon, but then he did anyway--I can't believe he had a demon on his shoulders since college, how sad that it cost his girlfriend her life.
Regarding Adam, I think that it was Michael who took him, but I didn't think that satan could use him too, maybe he'd use Adam to lure Sam, the way Zacharia tried to do with Dean for Michael. I hope he comes back.
I wondered that too Cablejockey, I can't believe Bobby would allow the Demon to use him, he's a demon, so he would be risking his life. I bet his wish would be for his legs to work too, but there's no guarantee that he'd get them back, the demon could just keep his body for himself. It would be awful if we lost Bobby, but it would be a great cliffhanger.
Lurk, I'm guessing they are writing the angels as some form of archangels, who are warriors. There are probably more good angels like Castiel, but they are either fearing satan, look what happened to Gabriel, or don't want to go against their brother. I don't know where God is, but it's good for the plotline, where Sam and Dean have to make a choice. And I look at it as Sam and Dean are in a different world, a very cool scifi world.
Nice to see you here Beckie, chime in when you want, past shows or current alike 
|
Beckie03
Member
07-05-2007
| Wednesday, May 05, 2010 - 1:57 pm
i will post a bit...
the actress who played ruby in season 3 was a much better actress for the role than the one in season 4. she just was not a good pick for it.
|
Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Wednesday, May 05, 2010 - 2:33 pm
Lucifer was an angel, too, right? Wasn't he cast out of heaven for doing something upper management didn't like?
It seems to me that demonstrates that angels also have free will (just like man) and they have the option to rebel, if they so choose.....like Lucifer, the ex-angel did.
So, if the devil was an angel, I just don't understand the distress of some viewers at seeing "bad" angels.
JMO
|
Lurknomore
Member
07-07-2001
| Wednesday, May 05, 2010 - 8:04 pm
Josh, I can only speak for me, but my problem isn't that there are bad Angels. It's that ALL the Angels we have seen are bad. I want some shred of good fighting here. The closest we have to a good Angel is Castiel, and he is on the Angel outs because of it. That's my issue.
If they can show all this endless evil, I just want a scrap or two of pure goodness trying to fight said evil. And I'm trying to keep an open mind about God being MIA (that he really has some plan). But if that ends up not materializing, I'm going to be even less happy about that!!
|
Lycanthrope
Member
09-19-2002
| Wednesday, May 05, 2010 - 8:21 pm
The "Angels" aren't about 'good vs. evil'...they're about power. Pure and simple. Power. None of them, save for maybe Castiel and Gabriel, care about humanity. If Lucifer wins, he gains power; if Michael wins, he gains power. They're different factions of the same club.
That's the way I see it, anyway.
|
Calamity
Member
10-18-2001
| Thursday, May 06, 2010 - 8:32 am
Yeah, when I think about this war between the angels & the demons and what it means for humanity, it sorta reminds me of how civilians, and wildlife, and nature are so often just "collateral damage" in our own wars. We rarely even spare them a thought because we don't think they really matter.
|
|
|
|
