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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Wednesday, August 23, 2023 - 1:24 pm 
" Took me a while to realise Jack and Roy (now Rock Hudson!) were two different characters."
I already knew who David Corensweat (Jack Castello) was. He was in the two season show "The Politician". But I did confuse Jack with Darren Criss a time or two...mostly when they weren't in closeup. From a few feet farther away they did look alike...they both had the same body type, and similar hair color.
There's just something about this era and this location that is always fun for me. Old Hollywood was a place of dreams and power, all set in an unassuming setting that makes life seem safe and makes you feel optimistic...until a monster like Jim Parsons comes along and becomes a praying mantis that eats your head. 
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Wednesday, August 23, 2023 - 1:32 pm
"Surprising how topical this is, given recent talk about role representation, with many hiding who they are and others not able to hide, and missing out despite their talent. "
I had the same thoughts....but then I remembered Hollywood originally aired in 2020. All the actors, writers, directors and producers that made this were living through all these same issues at the same time they were acting it.
And those racial issues were something that surprised me. I remembered this show as mostly being about the gay issues, but it was more race related.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Wednesday, August 23, 2023 - 1:43 pm
"I saw e1 yesterday, and should get through e2 and 3 (and possibly 4) today."
My first thought was "Oh No, I don't remember what happened in each episode!"
My second thought was "Aha! To the Supernatural guide!" So I checked and here's the guide for Hollywood:
https://epguides.com/Hollywood/
It doesn't seem to be as extensive as the episode info for Supernatural, but it's good with a very short description and all the actors and the roles they played.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Wednesday, August 23, 2023 - 5:53 pm
I've noticed and wondered about that Red White and Blue movie, but will now put it on my list .
I've watched up until the end of episode 4, so should finish tomorrow. I kind of feel sorry for Rock Hudson (or his family now, I suppose) as he's not only portrayed as dumb, but also talentless!
Yes, it is more race related than gay related. In the show, male actors being gay, or closeted gay, seem to be the norm, and completely accepted (almost expected)... as long as the audience doesn't know. I was hoping now the boss guy is in the hospital and the wife has control of the studio she'd ignore his demand to remove the black writer... but maybe Eleanor Roosevelt's arrival will fix that. I've no idea how accurate that would be, don't know much about first ladies!
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Wednesday, August 23, 2023 - 6:03 pm
Just learned something I had totally missed! I was looking at the episode guide (my link above) and perusing the cast lists. I had absolutely NO idea that Paget Brewster played Tallulah Bankhead! I didn't recognize her face or her voice even though I've watched her on Criminal Minds for years and years. I'm pretty sure she was introduced in ep2 because she was at that party at George Cukor's mansion with a big pool full of beautiful naked men frolicking about.
And watch out for Tallulah....she has a real potty mouth and the rude stories she tells would make a sailor blush. LOL
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Wednesday, August 23, 2023 - 6:20 pm
"I was hoping now the boss guy is in the hospital and the wife has control of the studio she'd ignore his demand to remove the black writer."
I'm thinking you didn't recognize the "boss guy in the hospital". That's "Meathead" from "All in the Family", Rob Reiner (son of Carl Reiner).
"but maybe Eleanor Roosevelt's arrival will fix that. I've no idea how accurate that would be, don't know much about first ladies!"
Don't worry about accuracy. This is an alternative version of old Hollywood. There wasn't a "Peg" or "Meg" movie made IRL. Rock Hudson had a very different life/career IRL than he did in this miniseries. As far as I know there was no woman running a studio or a black writer that wrote a screenplay and fell in love with Rock Hudson.
Most, if not all, of the characters were alternate reality versions of real actors.
So if you try to find evidence of this story IRL, it'll drive you nuts because it's mostly fiction... using some real actors of the time changed to fit into a before-it's-time reality set in old Hollywood dealing with issues we struggle with today, about 8 or so decades later.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Wednesday, August 23, 2023 - 7:57 pm
Eight decades... wow! I suppose it is!
No, I didn't recognise Rob Reiner! Paget Brewster's one I did recognise though, took me a few minutes to work out who she was, but I did get it in the end. Apparently Tallulah was one of the real actresses... as you probably noticed, not many of these names mean anything to me, as I've never known much about Hollywood in those times.
https://www.townandcountrymag.com/leisure/arts-and-culture/g32222553/hollywood-netflix-cast-real-life/
"using some real actors of the time changed to fit into a before-it's-time reality set in old Hollywood dealing with issues we struggle with today"
I think that's exactly what they intended. I kind of like these ~if only~ takes of past situations. They make you feel hopeful... assuming the good guys "win" .
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Wednesday, August 23, 2023 - 8:49 pm
Every time Tallulah Bankhead comes up in a conversation, I think of a story I heard on a talk show. It may have been Truman Capote that told it but I'm not sure at all. The story is...
I once was in an elevator with Talullah Bankhead and as we were catching up, a horrible odor filled the elevator. I looked as Tallulah and asked, Tallulah, Dear, did you just fart?? She gave me a puzzled look me and said, "Of course I did, Dahling. Do you think I always smell this way?"
I'm not sure who told it or if it's true, but I'm
very sure that it doesn't matter because it still makes me laugh every time it crosses my mind. LOL
(And it feels more true after hearing this version of Tallulah telling stories at the dinner table!)
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Wednesday, August 23, 2023 - 8:53 pm
"as you probably noticed, not many of these names mean anything to me, as I've never known much about Hollywood in those times. "
Did you understand who Queen Latifa played? Hattie McDaniels played Scarlet O'Hara's Mammy on "Gone with the Wind" and she won an Oscar for it. True story.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Thursday, August 24, 2023 - 12:20 pm
Oh no, the babies are the other guy's!!!!
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Thursday, August 24, 2023 - 1:37 pm
I've had to pause for a bit, but the final three episodes are very good so far. Everyone seems to be getting something, all getting their "win." I'm hoping that doesn't change in the last episode and a half I have left .
Loved that Ernie got his final performance!
Nope, I didn't know who Queen Latifah played. All their accents make things sound so... not sure, haughty? Or just amusing maybe! And even more weird that the mid-Atlantic accent isn't even a real one, it's just put on for tv and movies.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Thursday, August 24, 2023 - 1:38 pm
I didn't like the wife anyhow. Jack is better off with a clean slate. There are plenty of other fish in the Hollywood sea for a handsome movie star.
At least he's better off getting a clean break instead dealing with of all the drama that could take place among an ex lying girlfriend, her new husband, their twins and the man who thought he was the father.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Thursday, August 24, 2023 - 3:30 pm
Finished it. Loved all the happy endings... and the oscars!! Such a shame it was all fantasy, and remained fantasy for more or less 80 years.
Even Henry redeemed himself .
Yes, Jack was better off without his wife, and with Avis' daughter. And nice how the daughter was not the stereotypical spoilt brat without talent who just got roles because of who she was. All in all just some really good roles in there.
After you mentioned the Hollywoodland sign I noticed it said that actually up on the hillside! Seems like it was advertising from new housing, and it was only in 1942 that they repaired the sign and dropped the "land." Who knew?!
I'll watch the Ernie/Scotty movie tomorrow night, or maybe Saturday if I can't stay awake long enough tomorrow (probably likely!).
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Thursday, August 24, 2023 - 3:36 pm
Sweet little Misha video on Threads. It should play even if you're not a Threads person. Assuming you're interested in gentle Misha and his woodland friends that is
https://www.threads.net/@misha/post/CwWADqWJbco/?igshid=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ%3D%3D
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Thursday, August 24, 2023 - 6:16 pm
Yeah, all the happy endings were great, especially for characters that had been overlooked, ignored, disrespected, and unrewarded for their whole careers! But with all that happy endingness, it was a bit odd that Jack lost his relationship, "his" twins, and even lost his deserved Oscar! He still had his friends and a future career doing what he loves...but he did get a bit shortchanged.
"Even Henry redeemed himself "
He'd have to prove it to me, first....and the perfect answer for that would've been a season 2 of Hollywood where he could shed his snakeskin and made his stand as a good human to produce a movie about a gay couple romance.
----
I get the impression you weren't as engaged in it as much as I was. What did you think about seeing "Sheldon" being such a rotten apple in a whole barrel of rotten apples? As far as I know he wasn't playing a real life character from the past....but he was still a good villain here. And his Dance of the Seven Veils was a hoot!
Of course, even though Hollywood had likeable, interesting characters, they didn't hold a candle to how The Boys of Supernatural carried 15 years of episodes while keeping us the edge of our seats (and with tissues within reach) for every single one of them.
If it didn't quite grab your interest as much as I'd hoped, you can tell me and I promise that my feelings won't be hurt. (My guess is that you weren't as familiar with the actors they portrayed, but I mainly thought of them as total fiction because I didn't know what parts of those characters were "rewrites" of their real lives and histories.
Anyhow, whether Hollywood was a winner for you or not, still be sure to watch "Red, White and Royal Blue". ONE episode (cuz it's a movie). You'd have a great connection to it since a lot of it takes place in London and one of the two main characters is a hot, Royal Brit.
I tried your Misha link and it wanted me to register and sign up, but I really don't join up at many sites these days.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Thursday, August 24, 2023 - 6:51 pm
Aww, for some reason it just let me watch Misha's video, without being a member. He was jogging and took a video of an owl (in the daytime!) and a deer right near him. He's very sweet.
I really enjoyed the first episode, then it lulled for me until the last three, which were great. So it did take a bit to get going for me. (Also affected by my inability to stay awake at the moment, still getting over lack of sleep due to the flight and jetlag.) It took me a while to get used to who was who, and like you say, the whole 1940s/50s thing is unfamiliar to me, I don't recognise many names, and I am always slow to pick up on faces so the main actors took a bit to sort out. My brain also got sidetracked by the Rock Hudson ~how can they call the character that when they're showing him as dumb and untalented?~ thing. (Also Anna May is a real person, but they changed her story. And Henry.) But once the emotional parts pick up I'm all in and loving it!
Yes, Jack did get the short end of the stick. Even when his wife leaving him seemed like the best for his future, it still clearly upset him a lot. I guess giving him an Oscar wouldn't seem realistic, as his performance was just average and it might have kind of cheapened the impact of the others.
OK, maybe Henry wasn't quite redeemed, but he did do some self reflection and is trying. I liked how in general they did make an effort to make him more than just a one dimensional bad guy.
Oh yes, I will definitely watch Red White and Royal Blue sometime soon. And I'll try out the Scotty movie .
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Friday, August 25, 2023 - 1:23 pm
I just watched the Scotty movie and it was fascinating. I hadn't appreciated how devastating it would be to be outed back then, in the movie industry. I thought it was more a matter of not getting leading man (against a woman) roles if you were gay because it was perceived to make you unbelievable. The miniseries kind of smoothed over that, made it seemed more of hush hush for your career, but not for your safety.
And Scotty himself is quite a character, weirdly it seemed like his wife knew nothing about him when they married, and isn't terribly keen on it now! I wonder where all his stuff went to after he died.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Friday, August 25, 2023 - 4:03 pm
I had planned to watch the DOC last night and totally forgot about it! I'm curious if my memory is correct on Scotty....I remember him as being almost a Popeye type character with a huge poopload of junk stored in multiple houses. It would have been fun if he had done an episode of Hoarders.
Thinking about it, I believe a lot of my praise on this series was based on the subject matter. I grew up in a world where "gay" was a sickness (legally and medically, at the time) and did you know that even TODAY gay folks can still be legally fired for simply being gay? True fact:
(https://www.lgbtmap.org/equality-maps/non_discrimination_laws)
Growing up under that kind of oppression was difficult and personally, I've had eggs thrown at me for walking down the street of a gay neighborhood, people calling me names for no reason other than hate/intolerance. I was even sitting in a small neighborhood gay bar when someone tossed a molotov cocktail at the front door and a friend of mine worked in a bar when someone drove by and shot a bullet through the window, breaking a glass a woman (my favorite waitress at a neighborhood restaurant) was holding. In San Diego cops made it a big deal to walk around the parking lot of a popular gay dance bar in the early 70s just to intimidate us...they would write down the license plate numbers of the cars parked there. Intimidation tactics? Of course it was.
It was great seeing a show where the typical victims of oppression got a big win at the end. Growing up there weren't any movies where the gay character didn't get beat up or killed by the end.
I do think the fact that talking about homosexuality was so difficult for so many that it made hiding in the closet easier. When Rock Hudson (the real one) came out when he was diagnosed with AIDS...a woman at my job was so surprised about that, she couldn't stop sharing how she always liked him and couldn't believe he was "that way". That was in 1985....but I, and my gay friends, had known he was gay for at least a decade. (Some gay folks like to gossip. ) A lot of folks just see what they want to see and they don't see what they don't want to see. Not seeing gay people just helped us stay hidden. Well, at least until we finally started standing up for ourselves en mass.
Anyhow, I had forgotten how political this miniseries was. I think my satisfaction of how it turned out is what stuck with me and left me the memory of it being an excellent miniseries.
Anyhow, I'm glad you watched the Scotty show....he was a hoot and way ahead of his time.
Time to rewatch that now!
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Friday, August 25, 2023 - 9:13 pm
Well, I rewatched it. I was surprised at how graphic some of that was! It was pretty much as I remembered - that horny old guy really was ahead of his time although he did have some questionable beliefs.
All in all, the miniseries/DOC makes me feel a lot more grateful today than I felt in the 60s thru the 80s. I appreciated that it ended with the news of gay marriage becoming legal.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Friday, August 25, 2023 - 10:23 pm
It's sometimes easy to forget the personal effect these things have on those who belong to the group. I remember 15 years or so ago in News & Views something you said had quite a profound impact on me, you all were talking about gay rights and someone said you just had to be patient and wait for everyone else to catch up. You said something like you'd been waiting 50 years and you didn't know how much more patient you could be. That hit me quite hard, and I've been a lot more vocal about gay rights and other discrimination since then.
Well I'm going to see if I can keep my eyes open and watch Red, White and Royal Blue!
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Saturday, August 26, 2023 - 1:43 am
"and someone said you just had to be patient and wait for everyone else to catch up."
Believe it or not, I was thinking about that same remark about "waiting" as I was typing that post...I think someone said not to be impatient and that it would be different within 25 years. I've thought of that a lot since then. I had so many friends who died of AIDS who had waited for equality for their entire lives and never saw gay marriage happen or even saw it in court cases that went all the way to SCOTUS. Waiting for the bad guys to change on their own and hand us equality simply does not work....we have to step up and change it on our own terms in spite of their ignorance and bias.
I hope you liked RW&RB (if you didn't fall asleep).
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Saturday, August 26, 2023 - 10:49 am
I did enjoy RW&RB a lot, but I did fall asleep and miss the last half hour, woke up to the credits and had to rewind and watch the bit I missed. But I was glad I did .
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Wednesday, September 13, 2023 - 12:40 am
It is the third anniversary of the Supe series finale this week, so today I watched the last three episodes. It had only been four months for me of course .
The Cas scene was much better when I knew it was coming, the first time round I was so stunned as it seemed to come out of nowhere and be over in a flash. I still loved the pseudo finale of e19, and still absolutely abhor Chuck. (I’m not even keen on the actor because of Chuck, I don’t watch any convention stuff with him in it!)
And the finale was still perfect. I was bawling over the Dean part, but managed to make it through Sammy’s life story okay this time through, knowing he kind of had a happy ending. The whole thing’s still made me tear up now and again since though.
Supernatural, Jensen and Misha have been trending on twitter often recently, there have been several conventions in quick succession I think. I keep wondering if they will ever tire of it (probably not while the writers’ strike is on and it’s a good source of income!) as they’re already promoting one in Italy next year. At some point you’d think they need to move on, without new sources of storylines to discuss. You can only be asked so many times what Dean thought about Cas’s speech or whatever.
Sanfran, by the way, I finally finished How To Get Away With Murder (which I started before our Supernatural spree but then paused!) so I’m going to start the Magicians (your recommendation) as my treadmill show next. And if you haven’t watched the Men With Kilts show with the guys from Outlander, it’s worth watching, especially S1 in Scotland. It’s still on demand. Sam Heughan (Jamie) is such an irritating child (in an endearing kind of way) it doesn’t make you think of the character at all.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Wednesday, September 13, 2023 - 3:27 pm
Well, I may just watch ep 1 of The Magicians to see how it held up for me. Supe is a show that I knew I'd rewatch at some point years before it even ended....but TM didn't cast such a spell on me at first. But it grew on me just like Supe did as it evolved with plot lines that changed and added much to the story... and it is calling to me for a rewatch.
IIRC, TM started out good and I found it fun and mysterious and pretty adult oriented - some situations weren't made for kids...and some likeable characters do get knocked off here and there...but what I remember the most is that each season started coming across like a chapter in a book, often with new characters added and also taking place in a different world. I know there was a season with them at sea and one with one that took place in a dessert....and some other dimensions and stuff.
I still think of it as an adult version of Harry Potter (no, not "porn-adult", just "grown-up adult").
Anyhow, I have been wanting to rewatch it...I guess depending on how the new season of TV and the writers strike go may play a part in my rewatching schedule.
Like I said, I really liked it but I don't remember a lot of details like I did on Supe. (At this moment I can only think of one character's name!)
I don't think I'd rewatch the end of Supe like you did. In my head/heart, they had the happy ending I wanted to see and I think of the Supe series as safely tucked away, tied up in a pretty bow. If I rewatched it, I might see something that makes me see it differently!
Ah....I just remembered another character name for TM! One is "Eliot" and the other is "Quentin". The more I think about it the more I want to resee it. I know it didn't grab me as strongly as Supe did, but it wasn't 15 years long and it didn't have all that Winchester family history.
I think it's great that The Boys of Supe are still doing conventions. It's a sign of how great the show was...other than Star Trek, I can't think of any other series that remained as popular after it ended than Supe.
I did start watching S02 of Men on Kilts, but I often start those kinds of shows and never get around to finishing them. I did get that S01 must've been the dynamic of a cranky old man dealing with a brash boy....but in a fun way.
I just might start TM today...trying to remember it didn't produce many story details, but I do remember it having a lot of emotional moments that ranged from funny to horrific. Btw, TM isn't like a scary show that would give me nightmares. I think if you survived Supe's horror moments, you'll be fine with TM. I don't think it's as gory as Supe often was. (Hopefully I'm not wrong on this point!)
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Wednesday, September 13, 2023 - 7:28 pm
"I don't think I'd rewatch the end of Supe like you did. In my head/heart, they had the happy ending I wanted to see and I think of the Supe series as safely tucked away, tied up in a pretty bow."
The bow is a pretty apt description! Oddly enough, in the back of my brain I'd started to worry about the boys again, as I kept remembering parts where everything was going wrong and they were so stressed. I could feel my anxiety in e18 ramp up really quickly, but then watching the finale I kind of felt it all go (after the sobs of course!) as it ended so well and so completely. And I'm kind of relaxed about them again.
"I did start watching S02 of Men on Kilts, but I often start those kinds of shows and never get around to finishing them."
I tend to record all the episodes, but watch them three or four at a time, then don't do the next batch for ages. It's good to have shows like that at times, for when you just want something easy.
Let me know if you do re-start with The Magicians. Then I can ask you questions if I get confused . I would suggest we binge together but I'm so busy with moving organisation and house buying stuff I would slow you down way too much. You can't get much gorier than Supernatural, but I'm good with that sort of gory, it's the realistic gory or emotional torture I can't handle. Like some of the war stuff in Outlander S1 and S2! That took a bit of a toll, lol.
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