| Author |
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Saturday, April 22, 2023 - 12:49 am 
I'm watching e9. E7 and e8 were the ones you mentioned where I'd need to see the next (or was it?!), but I was hyped up after so started e9 too. I didn't want Jack gone, but he was in heaven, with his mother, and now Cass can't even let himself be happy or the empty will get him. Makes me so uneasy. I didn't even realise the empty was p'd off, I thought he/it wanted was just annoyed at Cass, so let him go, it's not like Cass escaped.
Not going to open the spoiler box until e13 but not fond of the emoji  .
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Saturday, April 22, 2023 - 1:09 am
It was e9 with the finger snap, you meant it literally! I didn't get why Dean would be less resistant now than before but I guess I will find out (or not!) tomorrow.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Saturday, April 22, 2023 - 1:23 am
OMC! ep14 proved to be a real page turner, too. It's a humdinger and even though it was expected, it was completely unexpected! Sounds dumb but it'll make sense when you see it.
It's hard to describe but even though we've had several WOTW eps lately, this series is still somehow bravely going where no Supeshow has gone before! (No not into space, Silly  )
Gotta love the twists and turns and how it seems to get bigger and bigger with each episode. There is only one word that can describe this kind of storytelling - "Epic". Period.
Good call on the spoiler box...I just had to post it now because if I waited a few days I'd forget. Besides if you read it now you'll just find Schroeder's undead cat but if you wait until after you see ep13, you'll see how amazing I can be with my psychic powers!
I had forgotten all about the Empty attacking heaven....every time I turn around I rewatch something that resurprises the poop outta me! How can this be? (What can I say?...ya get weird when ya get old! )
What are these guys gonna throw at us next?
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Saturday, April 22, 2023 - 1:34 am
"It was e9 with the finger snap, you meant it literally!"
Yeah that finger snap was a surprise....most episodes end with the boys driving off down the road/roll end credits. This one ended with a magic trick...a snap of the fingers and suddenly I find myself watching another episode even though I was about to stop for the night....and then another and another...
Btw one recent episode ended with the usual credits, only they start with black text on a white background. And how do you like this season's opening "Supernatural" logo? Those wings comin' right at ya and all the busy red and blue swirly colors? It got pretty aggressive this season.
Sometimes even the little tiny pointless things make me happy.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Saturday, April 22, 2023 - 10:51 am
Seems like things are really getting to a head earlier in the season, instead of just the last three eps or so. It really is a triumph of writing, to keep this up every season, with it being new and meaningful.
Yes, this is a particularly striking season logo. That's it exactly, the wings are coming right at you, they're not just the wings as they'd be if a person was standing there. And multiple rings of fire around them. I've been wondering why multiple, if it's just a pattern or it means something.
I'm going to have to watch e10 - to see what happens next - this afternoon, so I hope my hubby hasn't got any plans!
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Saturday, April 22, 2023 - 3:39 pm
Watched e10... that cold room door doesn't look that strong, not to mention it's noisy!
I hate that Michael was messing with their minds, trying to tell them Dean didn't really love them. However much you'd know that isn't true, those things worm their way in, especially, I'd think, for Jack.
And I didn't quite get the trade they mentioned before, when Cass pulled Jack's soul back into him. But I think now he did something similar again, to use some of his angel powers, I think they're saying he used some of his soul as magic to reanimate himself once his soul was put back in him. And then he used some of his soul again to smite the baddies. Not sure if this will continue indefinitely, i.e. can he never use his powers again, unless he wants to swap a bit of his soul for them, or if he can still regenerate them naturally.
In Death's library, all those books of deaths of Dean are the possible deaths that could happen from this moment in time, not from all time. Constantly changing. But I think the one book that didn't show Michael beating Dean and destroying the world has to be Dean killing himself, or sacrificing himself somehow  . I'd assume that would banish Michael to Hell, or the Empty or somewhere, although also that would not be good for Dean .
Funny that his dream place was a bar called Rocky's! It took me ages to realise that when Crowley called Sam, Moose, he was referring to Rocky and Bullwinkle!
Gonna sneak in e11.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Saturday, April 22, 2023 - 4:39 pm
"And I didn't quite get the trade they mentioned before, when Cass pulled Jack's soul back into him. But I think now he did something similar again, to use some of his angel powers, I think they're saying he used some of his soul as magic to reanimate himself once his soul was put back in him."
No matter how hard I try to understand how magic works on this show, I will never get the "logic" of it because there is none.....but I can accept that it works if that's what happens in the episode!
"In Death's library, all those books of deaths of Dean are the possible deaths that could happen from this moment in time, not from all time."
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Saturday, April 22, 2023 - 4:40 pm
E11, Death's library has been wrong before, it didn't include that time Dean died (temporarily) in order to speak to the ghosts. So if it missed something then, why can't it miss something now, and there be other options for Dean?
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Saturday, April 22, 2023 - 5:20 pm
From what I remember....Billie originally said (when she took Dean to the death library the first time) that the books were the possible deaths of Dean based on all of his possible actions. Now all the books but one have been rewritten except the one she handed to Dean.}
I think whatever Dean decides to do is an option he's never considered before....so it was never possible before...so it was never in a death book before. People change and their options change.
"E11, Death's library has been wrong before, it didn't include that time Dean died (temporarily) in order to speak to the ghosts."
How do we know that?
Anyhow, I thought when Dean died and came back it meant Dean basically "cheated death" so it didn't count. Even if he literally died but came back a few minutes later, I would call that a semantical death! Real death is forever, Winchester death is often just a round trip visit to Deathland.
Also, the time Billie let the boys die temporarily to talk to the ghosts to explain what happened so they could "let go" and leave the house. She was breaking the rules in order to allow herself to reap a whole house full of souls that had died but were stuck there. It is possible for angels to break the rules on this show....that happens very time someone dies and comes back and Cas breaks the rules all the time. If an angel refuses to break a rule, it doesn't mean she "can't" break a rule.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Saturday, April 22, 2023 - 7:06 pm
She did originally phrase it as all possible deaths, but since then she's twice said something that makes me think the books are about all possible deaths from this point in time (the time when she's talking) depending on the choices the person makes. So not a history of all the deaths you could have had throughout your life, but only the potential ones in the future. So the books wouldn't just be reducing in number with time (when possible deaths didn't happen, allowing those books to be thrown away) but they'd be changing when new unexpected things happen, and with all the entities around Dean, unexpected things would happen a lot.
That time when Billie sent him back when he killed himself, hoping to be revived, she said something like "these are all the possible deaths for you, but none of them are this death," and so she sent him back. So that's what I meant by it being wrong, without her intervention he would have died (the reaper was going to reap him) and the books didn't foretell it.
So at this point, Billie says all but one book says apocalypse and the other says you lock yourself up in a box, but as they've missed an option before, surely they can miss one now.
And yes, Billie could just break the rules!
So seems a bit premature of Dean to look himself in a box and plunge it into the ocean so soon, just on Billie's say, at this one moment in time.
Plus, you know, it's terrifying.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Saturday, April 22, 2023 - 8:34 pm
"So seems a bit premature of Dean to look himself in a box and plunge it into the ocean so soon, just on Billie's say, at this one moment in time. "
Well, why is it "premature"? Michael is trying to break through Dean's brain vault door and he's never ever going to stop. Dean has to focus on keeping it closed ALL the time, no matter how much M is throwing a hissy fit and banging around in his head.
M could reach Dean's limit of tolerance tomorrow and then what? Dean is scared that he'll lose focus for one second and that little slip would allow M to escape and end the world. I don't think Dean wants that to happen because he'll blame himself just like he is currently assuming all the responsible for the fate of the whole world. But Dean knows M WILL break out sooner or later and he believes it will be "sooner". For Dean there is no "premature" because it could happen any second.
"She did originally phrase it as all possible deaths, but since then she's twice said something that makes me think the books are about all possible deaths from this point in time (the time when she's talking) depending on the choices the person makes. So not a history of all the deaths you could have had throughout your life, but only the potential ones in the future. So the books wouldn't just be reducing in number with time (when possible deaths didn't happen, allowing those books to be thrown away) but they'd be changing when new unexpected things happen, and with all the entities around Dean, unexpected things would happen a lot."
As I see it, nothing about the library is really relevant. They are books about how Dean could die. Billie gave Dean one book that one was different, so that's the only one that has any significance because it apparently reveals an option Dean hadn't considered.
I think that whole library could burn down and it wouldn't change anything. It's not like a time machine that could generate a change of reality around Dean or anyone else. It's like what it is, a library. The only power the library has was never meant to be used....but Billie used it - she broke the rules and gave Dean a book that revealed an option Dean hadn't considered to solve the M problem. It's still just a book, whether Dean goes for the previously unconsidered option he finds in it or not.
They should change the name of that Library to:
"The Rabbithole Library".
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Saturday, April 22, 2023 - 9:34 pm
"Well, why is it "premature"?"
Because I don't want it to happen, of course! ;). I know it makes sense logically but but but...
Should probably get through e12-14 tonight... which includes the  episode (episodes?). (Actually a lot of them are episodes this season!)
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Saturday, April 22, 2023 - 9:48 pm
You got some great story brewing in those three eps!!!
I'm about to start e17.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Saturday, April 22, 2023 - 10:44 pm
The opening section of E12 with Dean in the box crying for Sammy (thankfully a dream)... oh my heart! And the THEN reminding us with a clip of Castiel saying he would do anything to save them... not sure I'm ready for whatever this is going to be!
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Saturday, April 22, 2023 - 11:38 pm
"not sure I'm ready for whatever this is going to be!"
You are ready. Trust me.  <- not a scary one
I just finished ep17...another major development! It's one I've been waiting for but didn't know when it would happen. It happened in the final seconds of the ep so I have to go ep18!
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Sunday, April 23, 2023 - 12:09 am
Paused after e13 to see what your spoiler box was, and yep, it was accurate!! Jeez what a tear jerker. And following e12 too!
They heard me and are taking more time with the box! At least for now. And the black on white not white on black ending credit to suggest faith or light, maybe?
Going back into e14. Good luck for e18!
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Sunday, April 23, 2023 - 1:49 am
At least your hankie needs were for some happy tears, too. John coming back was quite a surprising moment and then Mary showing up and seeing him was so powerful. It had to go away but at least, even though John went back to his time thinking it was a dream, the boys and their mom remembered their heartfelt reunion.
These eps are all building on one another...lately each one is built on the previous ep. I planned on going to bed with the final three left to finish tomorrow...but I just jumped directly into 19 head first....and now I'm about the see ep 20.
I tell ya, these last several eps make a great story that's becoming more and more compelling. There is SO MUCH I didn't remember.
I do plan on a break after I see ep 20, like I did after I saw the season 13 finale.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Sunday, April 23, 2023 - 2:42 am
I am flabbergasted....again. I didn't remember the final scene in the s14 finale until it started...and then I recalled it all but I was still flabbergasted. 
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Sunday, April 23, 2023 - 12:17 pm
I watched up to e15 in the end, so I have five left. Might be able to watch one or two today, might not, so I will probably finish the season Mon or Tues.
I was so relieved with e12. Bit miffed at them suggesting he go in a box to be honest(!), I feared they would do it, and the dream scene from the start of e12 would be real - but shortlived presumably, got to save our boys - and we'd see Dean crying for Sammy and Sammy crying for Dean until Jack could somehow fix it. That or I thought maybe they would swap Cass out somehow, and it would be Cass in the box. Only a tiny bit better.
The other deaths by the baddie (psycho-prophet) in e12, particularly the female who was drowned, were unusually gruesome. Or perhaps they've been that bad before and this time I just wasn't quick enough to look away.
But Prophet Donatello lives! It's interesting the way he is dealing with not having a soul, I guess he's going to be teaching Jack, the way things are going.
Yes, e13 was nice. Very cathartic for everyone. Interesting how both the boys could articulate that they've worked through it all, or most of it, now, and to them what John was (rightfully!) upset about was over and done with and forgiven. As they'd grown they'd understood the choices he'd made. Really nicely written episode.
I don't know if you remember, but back when John was in the show, I was a little obsessed with the ages. It was 2005, the boys were in their 20s, John looked like he was 40 at most, and at the same time we were watching The Winchesters which said John was born in the 1950s. So JDM as John appeared at least 15 years younger than he should have been... but this time they kept JDM at his current age, which is actually how he should have looked in 2003 all along, not the young version we saw. So they lost continuity with the original look they had for John, but gained realism on how John should have looked back then.
E14. Yeyy!!!! Ok we lost Maggie and the others but 10+ hunters from another world who shouldn't really be there anyway is a small price to pay for killing Michael imo . They (Dean, Sam, Cass) are taking a long time to realise that Jack is going through something very similar to Dean, in his belief that he is responsible for Michael, and he should be the one to sacrifice to bring him down. Ok he's a kid (but not just an ordinary kid!), so they feel they must protect him, but Jack balanced the needs of the world, the people he loved, and himself, and made his decision to endanger himself to help them. I don't know how much soul Jack has left, if any, but I think he can manage it.
Then e15 and a brief(?) respite of silliness and '50s husband-Sam, lol. It sounds like Sam and Dean will take time to regroup, rather than working/ignoring their pain, but past actions indicate that won't last long. Not sure what to make about Jack burning the snake. It's a logical decision someone without a soul would make which is ok, I suppose, for snakes, but not for humans...
I suppose part, or even a lot of Dean, Sam, Cass's fears for Jack using up his soul was the potential danger that Jack could become without it. And how dealing with Jack if he gained full nephilim powers without a soul, would be even more worse than dealing with Michael, both for the world, and them personally. But I think he will be ok  .
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Sunday, April 23, 2023 - 1:40 pm
"The other deaths by the baddie (psycho-prophet) in e12, particularly the female who was drowned, were unusually gruesome."
That was great little twist....it never occurred to me that a prophet could already be some kind of psycho....then for him to start hearing actual voices in his head? That's a serial killer waiting to happen!
"But Prophet Donatello lives! It's interesting the way he is dealing with not having a soul,"
Sam did pretty good, too....except when he just seemed a bit curious when he saw Dean getting eaten by a vamp
"Then e15 and a brief(?) respite of silliness and '50s husband-Sam, lol. "
Oh yeah...Sammy was the best thing in that episode! This ep reminded me of Sammy and Dean stuck in that sitcom when the Trickster threw them into TV world. LOL
"Not sure what to make about Jack burning the snake."
That one irked me! That poor snake looked a lot like my squirmy little friend Julius Squeezer, the Brazilian rainbow boa that I had for 13 years. The markings on his top of his back were a little different but he was the exact same color and temperament as the snake that jack murdered. BAD Jack!
ep16 - straight up MOTW.
eps17-20 - I gotta be honest over being responsible here. My unsolicited advice would be to watch all 4 in one sitting. These four eps were like one giant finale....all core story with surprises, action, and life changing events for everyone involved.
Of course, you'll still enjoy them even if you see them over a couple of days...but I think you'd be distracted in whatever you're doing until you finish ep20. I feel like I'm advising you to ignore your real life until you finish this season because, well, I kind of am! LOL
Seriously though, you do you. I have time to kill on my hands so it's easy for me to binge all I want. Don't let me influence you to make the wrong decision.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Sunday, April 23, 2023 - 4:43 pm
I am plenty tempted to ignore my own life in favour of Supernatural already, so you don't have to worry about tempting me more . I appreciate the recommendations .
I haven't been able to watch one today, so I will watch e16 on the treadmill tomorrow morning, then possibly could fit in e17-20 in the afternoon. Stopping mid session with these last two seasons has been particularly hard, episodes used to have more clear start and ending, now the story just continues. And you're right about it distracting everyday life, I think about them a lot, particularly when perilous things are happening, sometimes it's just more efficient to just watch  .
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Monday, April 24, 2023 - 10:24 am
E16 I'm thinking/hoping that when Jack doesn't tell Dean and Sam what happened with the other kids he's simply substituting his judgement over theirs, so as not to worry them. Not a sign he's going to become dangerous!
I've seen that trait in several extremely gifted people I've known. Not to mention less gifted and more entitled people like Elon Musk.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Monday, April 24, 2023 - 11:22 am
Seems to me like Jack is still a kid, dangerous powers or not. Kids test their own limits and they often have poor judgments....they say you learn from your mistakes, but that means you have to make mistakes.
-------
Side-bar:
I watched season 3 of Star Trek Picard yesterday. I kept thinking about Jack...and then it hit me that it was due to the fact that Supe-Jack had a lot of similarities to Picard-Jack.
You already know about Supe-Jack but I don't know if you've seen ST Picard....so I'll spoilerbox it:
Spoiler
Click below to view spoiler | | First of all they're both named "Jack". They both had absent fathers. Their fathers didn't know their sons existed until they were young men. Both Jacks had some abilities that are not typical of humans. Both had eyes that shine brightly once in awhile (Supe-Jack - golden eyes, Picard-Jack - red eyes). Both Jacks had issues of feeling different and they had trouble "fitting in". Both Jacks found themselves drawn to the dark side because that's where they felt the most welcome...and they both worked hard to do the right thing instead of the easy thing. |
All in all, I found the similarities very interesting because it points out that all kinds of people are a lot more alike than a lot of people would care to admit.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Monday, April 24, 2023 - 11:28 am
Looks like you're on the precipice of the final 4 eps...buckle your seat belt!
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Monday, April 24, 2023 - 12:14 pm
Will go back to your black box...
Just mid watch now... Mary .
Cass has just described Jack (post soul loss) as having an absence of good, rather than as bad .
And Dean's blaming Cass .
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