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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Wednesday, March 29, 2023 - 2:02 am 
"although we know that she is always miraculously back to normal almost immediately"
Of course we know that...we saw all the different states of repair of a bunch of Babys in the studio prop lot in "The French Mistake"!  (best ep ever)
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Wednesday, March 29, 2023 - 11:24 am
I just watched this one, I don't know if it's the same as the one you're linking to as it's only 32 minutes, but it does say that title about a minute in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xj9AOBtqHfo
Anyway, it is EXCELLENT!! I loved it! You know I could easily watch some of these episodes again they are so good, but worse, I've already forgotten lines from some of them! Even more reason to watch again! And it's so good to see when the actors like being the characters, and appreciate the show they're on, rather than going through the motions.
Good find - thank you!!
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Wednesday, March 29, 2023 - 11:42 am
"I just watched this one, I don't know if it's the same as the one you're linking to as it's only 32 minutes, but it does say that title about a minute in"
I'm so glad you found it! It's a great celebration (with the stars and creators) for a decade of entertainment.
That was the right one...sorry for the error in show length. I checked and it was 32 min. I guess it just felt like an hour when I watched it (a reg ep is about 41 min, without commercials).
You know there was a lot talk of Supe ending at 10 seasons...it was "on the bubble" for awhile and finally renewed, and IIRC that happened 2 or 3 times.
Bottom line: They got it right. They didn't leave us hanging and they didn't drag it out so long that the story suffered.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Wednesday, March 29, 2023 - 12:40 pm
PS - Since my last post, I watched that special again.
Do you want another "Special" after the whole series ends? You're in luck!
After season 11...
Season 12: 23 eps
Season 13: 23 eps
Season 14: 20 eps
Season 15: 20 eps
Series Special: "The Long Road Home"
(listed as 60 min) originally aired the same night as the finale.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Thursday, March 30, 2023 - 11:12 am
Ep 6
Who is Amara?
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Thursday, March 30, 2023 - 2:15 pm
What do you mean? I've watched up to e8, so feel free to explain!
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Thursday, March 30, 2023 - 4:08 pm
Amara is god's sister! That is what Metatron told Cass.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Thursday, March 30, 2023 - 5:00 pm
Yes she is! God sacrificed her to the Darkness to be able to create the earth! And she seems to want revenge.
I'm concerned about two things. At least two things. One is that Dean is emotionally connected to Amara, and she to him (as much as she has emotions), and that doesn't seem like it will end well, she's going to tempt him to do something, or at best he's going to have the opportunity to stop her but can't bring himself to do something, and then will feel awful about it afterwards.
And two, Sam is getting these flashes of his time in the Box with Lucifer from - presumably - god, as if he's going to have to sacrifice himself AGAIN to sort something out. Every episode I feel sad about Dean's mental state, but it's so much worse when Sam gets into the state of mind where he feels he has to do something to save the world. (Also, I don't like seeing tortured - literally tortured - Sam one bit  .)
Amara's walk through the crowd at the end was Woman in a Red Dress from The Matrix.
We also found out Crowley is working out of that asylum. I've been confused for a while whether that was on earth or in hell!
And before I forget, in one of the episodes Rowena said the spell she'd cast on Cass was her "attack dog" spell! He seems mostly over it now, just so regretful.
If you haven't seen e7 and e8 yet, e7 is a MOTW with a familiar face, but e8 is sweet and funny and awful all at the same time.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Thursday, March 30, 2023 - 5:32 pm
"And two, Sam is getting these flashes of his time in the Box with Lucifer"
It's about time! I remembered Sam being in hell in that awful rusty cage suspended with chains...and not always alone! I expected to see that several seasons ago but I suppose I am seeing that several seasons ago - in flashbacks - now.
"I've been confused for a while whether that was on earth or in hell!"
Same here...but I would never guessed it was a gothic dungeon inspired asylum(even though I remember them finding that place.) Heck, keeping a sane person locked up there would surely cause them to need an asylum!
"And before I forget, in one of the episodes Rowena said the spell she'd cast on Cass was her "attack dog" spell!"
I don't know who wrote the recap I read, but it certainly hit the mark..."attack dog" and "berserk button" can be used interchangeably. I think "berserk button" is a term like "Macguffin" to describe a certain situation in TV shows and Movies. A berserk button could be just verbally pushing someone's buttons knowing it will push them over the edge.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Thursday, March 30, 2023 - 5:58 pm
I'd been quite happy NOT seeing Sam in chains!! I always feel like Sam is more emotionally intelligent and can deal with his feelings/what happens better than Sam can, or at least more healthily, but I always feel more scared for him when something bad happens.
Someone "going berserk" is a common phrase in the UK, but the way you were using the word made me think maybe it's not so common here. So I googled it, and google told me Berserk is a big manga comic series, and beserkers are some sort of big baddie from there, so that might be why the bit you read used the term, perhaps the writer was a fan.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheBerserker
So the berserk button turns someone (not always literally) into a berserker. Same effect as the attack dog spell, but I think that spell was the one she used when she had the three prospective witches last season, she made one of them into an attack dog to go after Sam and Dean, so she could get away. That girl eventually bled out of her eyes in a closet(/room?) and died but Castiel would be stronger than her.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Thursday, March 30, 2023 - 10:40 pm
I didn't know about a berserker comic, but I'd heard of the "berserkers" of Nordic mythology and/or history...crazy vicious and unpredictably violent warriors.
berserker Norse warrior
https://www.britannica.com/topic/berserker
---
"So the berserk button turns someone (not always literally) into a berserker."
The "berzerker button" is just the trigger used to set off a character in a movie or TV show....like "Go Get 'em Killer" could be the button to set off an attack dog...or saying Trump had small hands during a presidential debate might trigger him enough to angrily defend the size of his peepee on live television. LOL In some cases, a "Your Mama is a <crude remark>" could be that button. It's just pushing a metaphoric button to elicit an overreaction.
Anyhow, to me, a "berzerker" is a noun, literally a wild viking warrior with no moral boundaries to his violence at all. The word "berzerk" is an adjective meaning out of control violent behavior, is derived from that....as in "He went berserk".
I guess I should've just said "Rowena's spell was a trigger to elicit violence from Cass and to direct it towards anyone near him".
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Friday, March 31, 2023 - 11:47 am
I've watched e9 and e10. E9 is a huge Nooooooooooooooo and e10 an even bigger one! No MOTW for two episodes in a row is stressful!
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Friday, March 31, 2023 - 1:14 pm
Well, you can relax a bit...ep 11 is pretty much MOTW with guest star Dee Wallace, but there are still core story scenes. Shoshannah Stern is another guest star...she is a deaf actress who was very familiar to me but I couldn't place her in previous shows I've seen. I looked her up and saw that she's in 7 eps of Supe (probably where I remember her from) and she's got a recurring role. Oh yeah...she was in Jericho, too.
Btw, in e11, we discover which of The Golden Girls the boys had crushes on! If you read this before seeing e11, what's your guess on who the GG crushes were?
My next ep will be 12.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Friday, March 31, 2023 - 2:41 pm
I don't know Dee Wallace, and although I could possibly recognise a couple of the Golden Girls by sight, I don't know much else about them.
But I do know Shoshannah Stern, from Jericho!
I like it when you're ahead of me then I don't have to be careful what I say . So if Lucifer is in Cass, I guess Cass is in hell . And did you think that it was the Lucifer actor voicing Lucifer with Cass miming?! If not, Misha is a seriously good mimic.
And Rowena dead! When she was massaging Crowley (quite an out of place scene) and kind of admitted she loved him, I thought her days might be numbered. And then the way Crowley watched impotently while Lucifer was toying with her, as if he knew but was resigned to what would happen.
Oh and Sam wasn't really talking to God!!! They kept flashing to Lucifer in the cage while he was having the visions, but I thought they were trying to tell us that Lucifer was listening, and knew what God was planning for him. Poor Sam, messed up again. And now Cass is in danger, not to mention everyone else as Lucifer is out. Unless Lucifer really can take down Amara, but then of course the question is who can take down Lucifer.
I'll probably watch e11 and e12 tonight.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Friday, March 31, 2023 - 8:01 pm
"So if Lucifer is in Cass, I guess Cass is in hell"
I never thought about it...but I'd have assumed they are both in Cass. When Gadreel was in Sammy, they were "roommates" in Sammy's body. But come to think of it, I don't think we've ever seen an angel (Lucifer, fallen but still an angel nonetheless) possessing another angel in a meatsuit. Of course, Cass is just an angel on the inside and a suburban father in the flesh...
Bottom line: Who knows?
I didn't remember Cass being possessed by Lucifer AT ALL! But now that this came up I remember something. At some point (no details whatsoever) Cass is not around and later (maybe MUCH later?) he turns up again.
I can tell you what kind of place he went to but not where it is, not what it is, or why he was there, or how he got there...in fact, I don't remember if it had anything at all to do with the current Luci/Cass situation.
Here's a black box....not sure if it's what you'd call a spoiler but here goes:
Spoiler
Click below to view spoiler | | Cass said he was in a dark nothingness...it was pitch black, no light, and as far as he could tell, nothing else was there and he was alone. Just Cass in an infinite dark space. |
Let me know when you read this box!
" And did you think that it was the Lucifer actor voicing Lucifer with Cass miming?
I didn't notice at all...I was probably too busy trying to see if he was mastering Lucifer's mannerisms. I think I would've noticed if it wasn't Cass's regular voice because I recognize voices a lot even when I can't put a face to the character. BUT...if "Cass" has Lucifer's voice, I think anyone that Cass meets that he knows would recognize it wasn't his voice. Maybe he is a good mimic, but I was busy thinking how much better the kid that played young Dean was (in both voice inflections and mannerisms) than Misha was playing Lucifer.
Rowena dying was a surprise to me...I thought she was in the show for longer than this. But also, I'd have to say never assume Rowena is <anything> ever! And on Supe don't put on your black dress on until you see the deceased's bones burned in a funeral pyre! Hey, we've seen Crowley, Dean, Sammy, Bobby, and others die several times....and even those who are are still "alive" in some other realm, be it heaven, hell, or purgatory. some are still in the game. ()
" Unless Lucifer really can take down Amara, but then of course the question is who can take down Lucifer."
Why assume anyone could take down Amara....if anything, it's the other way around. Lucifer is god's son, an arch angel. God is god, top of the food chain, and Amara is god's sister sitting right next to him in the family tree so I'd assume that the she has power equal to her brother's....literally a match made in heaven, only with sibling rivalry.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Saturday, April 01, 2023 - 12:34 am
Ah yes of course, Cass is suppressed inside his body. I guess Lucifer’s old vessel is sitting empty in hell. By the spoiler box, do you mean that’s what Cass feels while he’s inhabited by Lucifer? Might be marginally better than knowing what Lucifer is doing and feeling responsible for it. Cass feels enough guilt already.
It’s about time god came back and fixed some of this!
E11 and e12 were both (mostly) MOTW, and I’ve just started e13 and it seems to be the same. I want to know what’s going on with Cass/Lucifer!
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Saturday, April 01, 2023 - 1:01 am
E13, look out for a new motel room divider!
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Saturday, April 01, 2023 - 1:58 am
"Ah yes of course, Cass is suppressed inside his body."
That seems to be the case, but I don't know how. They've said in the past that Lucifer needed a very strong body because most human vessels would just explode with the power of an angel in it (like they did at the church after the angels fell).
At this point, poor Jimmy Novak (Cass's vessel) is somehow managing TWO archangels at once?
"By the spoiler box, do you mean that’s what Cass feels while he’s inhabited by Lucifer?"
Not at all. It's just something I remembered that has yet to happen. Cass goes away (don't remember why, how or when) at some point. When he finally gets back that's how he describes the place he found himself in.
When you wondered where he was, that's what caused me to remember this. I thought maybe Cass was in that nothingness while Luci was in Cass....but turns out that's not the case. And since then I have seen that Cass IS inside Jimmy with Luci....he was telling Dean "I can't suppress him much longer".
I don't remember how Cass's eventual disappearance and going to the nothingness will happen. So I guess that was a spoiler after all, but with no details...saying Cass goes to "nothing" doesn't really reveal much.
ep 16 - Another room divider in the motel only no Sammy and Dean....it's Bobby and Rufus! Kind of a flashback-ish(Not) situation that we've never witnessed before.
I paid more attention to Cass in the last couple of eps and I think it's Misha's voice most of the time, but once or twice when he said something important it sounded like Mark Pellegrino's...at least once he started to say something (sounded like Misha) and then kind of cleared his throat and started over in a deeper voice that sounded like Pellegrino.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Saturday, April 01, 2023 - 11:59 am
I wonder if it's easier for the Jimmy Novak body now it's dead, and presumably artificially powerful as it's had angel in it for a couple of years.
Doesn't sound good for Cass. I really enjoyed those episodes when he was around a lot, and very innocent. It's natural now (in general, not now Lucifer is in him), with what he's been through, that he's more mentally worn out and more focused on all the bigger picture but I do miss the old Cass.
They definitely have new sets for the motels, and an extra divider budget!
I had no recollection that Jody Mills had adopted Alex, the other kid with Claire. Interesting choice not to have or really mention Cass in that episode.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Saturday, April 01, 2023 - 1:50 pm
"I had no recollection that Jody Mills had adopted Alex, the other kid with Claire."
I remember being surprised that Jody had a daughter the first time I saw that ep. There are so many young female characters that come and go on Supe....they're kind of a blur. It was nice seeing how she fit into the story this time around.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Saturday, April 01, 2023 - 11:55 pm
Wow, s11e14 with the WW2 sub was so tense! For some reason it felt like Captain Jack Harkness should be there, it reminded me of the emotional Torchwood episodes.
Lucifer-Cass and Crowley the dog!!!! I'm rooting for Crowley! I think it is Misha doing all the voices, Cass and Lucifer. He's pretty good, hasn't quite got the arrogance but it's close.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Sunday, April 02, 2023 - 12:51 am
Well, I have now finished ep 20. Eps 18 and 20 were mostly core story a with lots of plot activity and a surprise that was pretty much expected. Ep 19 was mostly MOTW. I watched all 3 eps one after another because I just got pulled in. Man, these guys can tell a story!
The core story is really gaining a lot of traction. I think this might be the season a lot of fans thought might be the last one. I remember thinking this season got so revved up it really felt like the epic story was coming to a head. I also think this was around the time the show was picked up for ONE more season EACH year...until it ended with season 15.
Oh yeah...in case you think my comment from awhile ago was already answered, you'd be wrong. The question was "Do you think the boys might not be alone in the lair?" The ep I was thinking of still hasn't some up yet yet. I wasn't thinking of the Oz witch visitor or the Kevin ghost visitor when I first brought it up.....I've been thinking od something or someone who may have been there all along. Or maybe not.
Anyhow bottom line - we're at a point where the momentum is really pushing the story along....and there's still so much story to go!
Anyhow, my next ep is 21....so I'll likely sit and finish all three at once and be done with season 11. Of course the finales usually push me head first into the premiere of the following season!
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Sunday, April 02, 2023 - 5:22 pm
Well....I got to sleep late last night/this morning....I wound up watching another episode that felt like three episodes (because it was!).
Yep, I finished season 11. The final 3 episodes were just too suspenseful to put off and it was positively life-changing (for the characters, not for me ). It truly felt like a series-ending 3-episode-event, but there's a scene at the very end that could've been added later. It feels like they didn't know if they were renewed or not when making the season 11 finale.
The only real details I'm sharing are that there are revelations and suspense and awe as things start to wrap up and rush to a conclusion. Watch the final 4 eps all at once if you can...the momentum may force you to whether you want to or not!!
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Sunday, April 02, 2023 - 6:19 pm
I thought you meant Kevin's ghost, as the other person in the bunker! And then when the Wizard of Oz episode came I thought maybe you meant the Witch instead. Hmmm, curious!
 on your rest of season summary!
I snuck in e16, where they have the case in the house Bobby and Rufus had previously been in, and then e17, the one where Sam doesn't die, but Dean thinks he did, and almost kills himself to make a(n unescessary) deal with that evil reaper.
I'm unsure of the significance of Bobby seeing dead Dean and Sammy in that house, and then Dean seeing dead Sammy in the same. I'm hoping that was all played out in their almost deaths in that next episode... hoping it's not going to be in the final few episodes.
So I have 18-23 left. I'll probably watch three episodes tomorrow, and hopefully three Tuesday. Then hope I'm not too desperate to start S12 on Wednesday, because I really have some important stuff I have to do this week!!
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Sunday, April 02, 2023 - 7:01 pm
"I'm unsure of the significance of Bobby seeing dead Dean and Sammy in that house, and then Dean seeing dead Sammy in the same."
That's because it has no significance.
The monster in the house lived in his world which was "outside time and space". Bobby/Rufus and Sammy/Dean went into the house years apart but when they got stuck in the monster's version of the house, they were there concurrently, but apparently not dead because they wound up back in our world just fine.
This episode was pure MOTW...all solved and done for good. The boys are not dead in there and we'll never see that house again.
I promise.
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