| Author |
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Saturday, March 18, 2023 - 6:58 pm 
I hope Elon Musk isn't still stopping you stocking up on those Himalayan Pink Salt chips!
I've now watched 17 and 18. So Gadreel is luring angels and giving them a choice to join him and Metatron or die, and Abaddon is stealing souls to create her army. Not looking good.
E18 is the one you mentioned with the "to be continued" at the end. I didn't quite get what was real and what wasn't with the trikster Gabriel. It wasn't real the first time when Gabriel tried to get Cass to create an angel army (although if it's a trick, it's a real trick, so I guess in that sense it's real), but Metatron is essentially doing the same thing at the end, by writing Castiel's story to be one where he does create an angel army. Not sure if Castiel thinks Megatron could slaughter them or if he has another plan. Seems unlikely the plan would work, even if he does have one. I'm a little baffled by how things can work out with Metatron this strong.
Tonight I should watch 19 and 20, possibly 21 too, depending how exhausting 19 and 20 are  .
Btw, at this rate, Dean's going to need a visit from Cass and a touch on his forehead to heal his liver.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Sunday, March 19, 2023 - 12:52 am
Hmm, e20 really did seem like a back door pilot so I looked it up, and it was developed as a spin off called "Supernatural: Bloodlines," then later just became this one episode. And there's something about another try in S11, but I didn't read on there.
I thought e19 was a bit of a rare miss, and e20 and e21 attempts at humour were a bit off. I think the whole thing with Crowley and his son was meant to be amusing, but it missed the mark to me. Or maybe I'm just too tense about where this is going.
But no more Abaddon, hurrah! Although a murder hungry Dean isn't a good sign. I will watch 22 and 23 together, hopefully tomorrow.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Sunday, March 19, 2023 - 12:59 am
" So Gadreel is luring angels and giving them a choice to join him and Metatron or die, and Abaddon is stealing souls to create her army. Not looking good."
"Not looking good" is one way to put it but I think it looks like pure desperation. These guys all act like they're all-powerful, but then they have to resort to coercion and trickery and/or brute force to get support?
Angels are just a bunch of bullies and crybabies.
Well, with at least one exception, Cass...but he shows bad judgement too often. At least he can quote books and movies now and that helps him understand humans from our literature and films so I'm seeing a lot more growth in him lately. (I don't know what ep that happened in, so I apologize if that was a spoiler...)
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Sunday, March 19, 2023 - 1:07 am
"and e20 and e21 attempts at humour were a bit off."
I definitely noticed it in ep 20, the failed spinoff. In fact, it made me think of TW...all serious and no humor...at all.
The thing with Crowley's son was weird (I didn't remember that at all either)....but demon humor has always been a bit off. Maybe that ep was meant to bring in more demon viewers. 
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Sunday, March 19, 2023 - 1:12 am
If you get thru 22-23 tomorrow then then you're only 2 eps behind me. The next one in line for me is ep 3.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Sunday, March 19, 2023 - 5:43 pm
I think Elon Musk must have vastly affected your mood! I watched 22 and 23... then 1 and 2, and I loved them all!
As I saw it, E23 ended with Cain-infected Dean actually dying, but as he had the mark of Cain he was reborn as a demon. Then e1 started four weeks later with Demon-Dean partying with Crowley ("Dean completes me," lol) and Sammy trying to find him, then e1 and e2 are the story of Demon-Dean going even more off the rails, Crowley getting fed up with Demon-Dean's unpredictability, and Sam finally catching up with him. Not sure the extra story with Cole was necessary, but I guess that's meant to demonstrate the difference in the original Dean being sad when a child was involved, and Demon-Dean just wanting to make his pain worse.
I enjoyed it because it seemed so real (given that it lives within a Supernatural universe). You take the humanity out of Dean and that's exactly how he'd be, completely hedonistic, revelling in his own ego! And perfect how Crowley loved it at first, then realised that he actually needed the stability of normal demon life, couldn't spend all his time living it up.
The angel side was a bit slow and unfocused (like why did the angels who didn't want to return to heaven need to die, if they were just minding their own business on Earth?), but I didn't particularly like the angel plot last season either, and this is probably an improvement. Just need Castiel to get some grace.
I'm hoping/assuming Sam will be able to cure Demon-Dean with his blood, and if they are sensible, they can make new-Dean more sensitive like Sam (as he's infused with Sam blood) to create a bit of fun .
Which part of it made you not like e1?
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Sunday, March 19, 2023 - 7:15 pm
"I think Elon Musk must have vastly affected your mood! "
Well, his damned Tesla car crapped out on my friend so I missed Costco (no planned chicken soup I was looking forward to) and I missed spending time with my best friend that I haven't seen in the past couple of months....so I considered all the facts and blamed the man who was obviously responsible, Elon Musk!
Anyhow, it wasn't "not liking" ep 1 as much as it was a convergence of several things - being in a crappy mood, getting pulled into the big exciting finale battle, Dean's death, black eyes, and drama. Then I started ep 1 and the momentum suddenly screeched to a halt and made a u-turn into Dean in a karaoke bar getting drunk and it just didn't complement my full-on-adrenaline excitement after seeing his evil black eyes...so I just fell back into my pissy mood.
It was a letdown in the moment but the next day (or later that night?) I watched ep 2 and I guess I was over my adrenaline rush and my expectations and it was fine.
Actually I was also a bit irked when Dean went to hell in the season 3(?) finale and in ep 1 of the next season started with no explanation why/how he was back and doing just fine.
The big difference between the two times was my mood when I was watching it...
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Sunday, March 19, 2023 - 7:45 pm
Ah, see I am always keen for the fighting and scariest bits to end, so that might be a bit of a difference. When it went from Dean keeled over with Sam after the fight, to Dean in bed and Sam leaving him to do some research, for a second I wondered if he was going to actually be dead, and there would be some long story to get some sort of undead Dean back, but once Sam started to prepare to summon Crowley I realised it would be ok in some form or another, and I guess I relaxed, so I was happy with the pace of e1.
And I thought Crowley's glee at having a partner in crime hilarious.
Wonder how many episodes it will take for Sam to cure Dean. I'd like to see Cass back with the boys and this angel plot resolved soon, too.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Sunday, March 19, 2023 - 9:46 pm
"Wonder how many episodes it will take for Sam to cure Dean."
Did I miss something? Do we know that Sam's going to cure Dean or is that just an assumption? Did you watch ep 3 yet? I haven't seen anything past ep2 season 10.
I've been thinking if Dean loses the mark of Caine maybe the demonism the mark caused will vanish with it. I'm guessing that Caine is no longer a demon after giving the mark to Dean.
I think Dean still has humanity left in him. When he was fighting the grown up kid in ep 2 and chose not to kill him but just leave him in his grief/misery, it didn't seem like a demon thing to do. Most demons would just whack the guy and move on to whack someone else. I think it was less than an "evil punishment" to spare him, but more of simple denial on Dean's part. He didn't want to kill him but he couldn't admit it to himself or Sammy. You see how Crowley has changed since Sammy almost cured him. Crowley got addicted to human emotions, an affect of human blood...and he hasn't had any emotions for hundreds of years. Dean had human emotions until a couple of weeks before and I think he still feels them there, buried deep down. But he's doing his best to ignore them. His choice is to stay tough, cold, and hard behind his demon persona rather than feel the loss and vulnerability his Dean-emotions would bring up. Bottom line, he's not behaving quite as cold blooded as he says he is.
Also, Crowley said the mark of C wants Dean to kill someone and Dean kept stalling by staying drunk to avoid that urge. When Dean finally went to do a hit for Crowley, instead of killing the wife, he killed the mean, hateful husband, which was much more of a human-like decision than a demonic one. Still pretty bad but at the same time, still not quite demon-bad.
That's how I'm seeing it.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Sunday, March 19, 2023 - 10:43 pm
Do we know that Sam's going to cure Dean or is that just an assumption?
That's just my guess, because that's what in e2 Sam said he was going to try (that's the last episode I saw), like he almost cured Crowley. I don't see how they will be able to roll together - and it just wouldn't be the show if they couldn't roll together - unless Sam cures him, or unless it's possible to control the demonness somehow so it rarely if ever, resurfaced. E.g. a spell or your method of somehow making the mark of Cain disappear (which would probably be helped now Crowley has taken the first blade away) might also work.
I agree, there's a good chance Dean has quite a bit of humanity in him he's trying to hide from himself, he is after all a special kind of demon, as it's his own demonised soul in his body, rather than a demon who's been in hell who then possesses someone else's body.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Monday, March 20, 2023 - 12:21 am
"That's just my guess, because that's what in e2 Sam said he was going to try (that's the last episode I saw), like he almost cured Crowley."
But didn't they say that when Sammy almost cured Crowley that, if he had succeeded, it would've killed Sammy? And Sammy was so messed up inside after that attempt that he needed an angel to possess him for awhile or he would've died.
Of course, it doesn't matter in the long run...everyone on the show has already died and been possessed by an angel or possessed by demons or turned into a vampire or been to hell and back so often that issues like this are really no big deal.
I think the main point now is that the boys have swapped places from season 9. Now it's Dean that's messed up and Sammy worrying and trying to fix him. Yet another chance for the boys to walk in each others shoes...
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Monday, March 20, 2023 - 8:15 am
Oh yes, true, they did think it would have killed Sammy. Well I might find out soon, just getting on the treadmill with my Supe…
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Monday, March 20, 2023 - 10:37 am
E3 didn't appear to have a THEN or NOW section, it just started with the main show.
There is a "new" character that I'm pretty sure is an "old" character, but my facial recognition is not that good. I expect you will know instantly.
Btw, I think there is a significant error in this episode. After you watch, let me know, and I'll see if I can remember what I was thinking, and if you agree!
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Monday, March 20, 2023 - 11:17 am
And I very carefully googled why Sam is wearing a sling, as I presume it's real, rather than for the plot:
"Jared Padalecki (Sam Winchester) dislocated his shoulder while wrestling with Osric Chau (Kevin Tran). The writers were then forced to make up a story as to why Sam was wearing a sling in the beginning of season ten."
From the Supernatural imdb page.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Monday, March 20, 2023 - 4:53 pm
I don't know how you manage to comment but not spoil, all I can say is E5 is pretty amazing, and not in any way you might predict given the current trajectory of the show. Actually I've enjoyed the last few episodes a lot, much more than the last half of e9, the humour is definitely back.
BIG character in this episode too.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Monday, March 20, 2023 - 5:17 pm
I have now seen ep 3...
"There is a "new" character that I'm pretty sure is an "old" character"
Oh yes...very. That was Rowena, the witch that helped out Ada when she went looking for advice in a coven. Those witches just blew her off but, as she was leaving, one Irish red haired witch said she'd help. That was Rowena, whose face you saw at the end of Supe ep 3 season 10.
"Btw, I think there is a significant error"
The only "error" I can think of that you might be referring to is Demon-Dean leaving the sigil circle where his chair was located and freely walking around the MoL lair when it's supposed to be super protected with sigils and spells and stuff to keep demons out. They did mention on Supe at one point that it wasn't designed to keep angels out.
If that's what you were thinking, my thoughts are that he's not a "typical" demon....he's a Mark of Caine demon which I believe is more powerful. Could Caine be considered to be a descendant of god...or is he more closely similar to a golem since he was made of clay?
Anyhow, Dean is (was?) the ONLY Mark of Caine Demon now and I think we don't really know the full power of that one-of-a-kind demon.
In any case, I think it was an obvious enough anomaly that it'll be explained at some point. I can't see Supe just changing "rules" like that without explanation.
Having the priest bless the blood instead of Sammy was a great sidestep to keep Sammy from having to risk death by providing his own personal blood!
Btw, did that "cure" seem way too easy to you? Heck, maybe Dean is faking it! We don't really know if a MoC demon even reacts to holy water.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Monday, March 20, 2023 - 5:19 pm
"I don't know how you manage to comment but not spoil"
It ain't easy at all!
I'll watch ep 4 in awhile...
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Monday, March 20, 2023 - 5:44 pm
I thought she was Rowena! I was hoping she'd say something in a Scottish accent so I could know for sure, but she didn't.
It did occur to me, too, that it was way too easy, but I guess as Dean still had the mark of Cain, that's the complication, or lingering effect or whatever might come back to bite him/us when/if the plot allows it .
The thing I thought was an "error" was that Sam didn't do the end of the spell after he gave Dean the blood. When Sam was un-demoning Crowley, he'd given him all the blood, and was about to do the chanting part when Dean stopped him. But with Dean, they gave him the last of the blood, and then he just woke up, no incantation.
Or maybe it's not an error but intentional, and it's a reason why Dean might go bad again!
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Monday, March 20, 2023 - 6:43 pm
-{"a reason why Dean might go bad again!"}
Or....the reason Dean is just pretending that he's good now!
Now that you pointed out the missing end incantation and the fact the he just walked out of the sigil circle thingy, I am even MORE unsure of Dean's cure!
I guess I'll watch ep 5 now. I finished S01 of The Rain yesterday and that's a good time to pause on it. Good show...but it ain't no Supe!
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Monday, March 20, 2023 - 8:00 pm
Whenever we hear a word that sounds like Rasmus, my husband or I always repeat back "Rasssmuuuuuus." That word might be the best part of The Rain, past season 1 (just warning you!).
Hope you love/loved (Supe) e5! That's the last episode I've seen.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Monday, March 20, 2023 - 8:55 pm
"Idjit!"
"Assbutt!"
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Monday, March 20, 2023 - 8:57 pm
"You can't spell 'subtext' without S-E-X"
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Monday, March 20, 2023 - 9:17 pm
Did you catch the Charlie Kaufman reference?
If you've seen "Adaptation" I'm pretty sure you did!
LOL
This really was a fun episode. I remembered there was an ep with a school play called Supernatural, but I didn't remember that it was an all girls play. It was a few seasons (AKA years!) before this ep that Cass said "Assbutt" so I'm sure that went over my head the first time I saw this.
Great watching this after speed-bingeing though all the references in their original episodes over a decade.
And it looks like Chuck is back!
Oh yeah:
Director: "I hate these Meta scenes."
Dean: "Me too".
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Monday, March 20, 2023 - 10:06 pm
Yep! I was so glad I'd recently watched everything so I could understand most of the references.
They even had a song about one of my favourite moments, when Castiel wanted to see the boys, but they said they were sleeping and to wait until morning... Castiel says he'll "wait here, then" and it's literally the side of the road where he made the call. That still makes me smile.
Destiel!!! I had no idea that reached fan fiction and wasn't just in my head! BM and how the girl went "ooo no" at the alternate definition! The substep away from each other! Their version of Wayward Son might have got me a little teary, and the boys in the car afterwards. I'm going to have to take that as the "hugging it out moment" I needed, and just hope it isn't too temporary!
Oh, and all the title cards at the beginning was good! Btw, are you seeing "Then" and "Now" on your episodes recently? I haven't for the last few. Just want to check I didn't turn an option off somehow.
Yes, Chuck. When Kevin Tran was a prophet, didn't that mean that the former Prophet, Chuck, should be dead? I think they even mentioned that on the show. So I'm wondering what this is going to be.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Monday, March 20, 2023 - 11:54 pm
"Btw, are you seeing "Then" and "Now" on your episodes recently? "
I do think a couple of eps didn't have them...but I don't always pay attention to them as much as I should.
Loved the way they were designing the graphics for the play and she she didn't like the title card and said it needs something here <raised arms & hands high, flapping around towards the screen> and then the title page flashed every change the title page had in the previous 10 years for their second moment of stardom.
I never really noticed how often the title page changed before, but I did take notice beck when the leviathan plot started.The splash around the word "Supernatural" was suddenly oily black like leviathan goo....I think it had been red just before that.
Btw, have you noticed that when Crowley is being exorcised or is jumping into another meatsuit that he has red smoke instead of black smoke like everybody else? I think Abadon had red smoke too. Must have something to do with them being high on the demon hierarchy pyramid.
That reminds me. That play deserved a Tony for their set direction and effects...especially when exorcising demons....the "smoke" was ingenuous!
----
PS- this one was so fun, it feels like Dean couldn't possibly be just pretending to be real Dean. However, who knows whether or not demonDean is hiding, tucked away in Dean somewhere...like behind the Mark of Caine?
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