| Author |
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Tuesday, March 14, 2023 - 9:31 am 
Saying that someone that you know is being totally disrespectful and ignorant is kind of being totally disrespectful and ignorant. Kindness isn’t a one way street. Frankly, I’m shocked that’s considered remotely acceptable.
I am sure the millions of racist, homophobic, sexist, ethnic, ableist, body shaming jokes were all said in fun by the people saying them - none of which would be ok or acceptable and in some cases would go as far as being illegal.
That's easy to agree with. Except we're talking about what was said at the Oscars. None of that was said.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, March 14, 2023 - 9:43 am
I think you missed the point, Jimmer. The point that LB was making (I believe) is that lots of things we once thought were okay are no longer okay. Heck, sexist talk in the workplace was not illegal for a looooonnnng time. So the argument is that we need to continually re-evaluate what is and isn't okay, as culture, society changes and ... uh, progress (one would hope). 
And I don't know what's wrong with saying someone is being disrespectful. Is it any different than telling someone they shouldn't take things so seriously?
I am over people who say hurtful things and then say "I was only joking." It's not a joke if it's hurtful, and the person who MADE the joke should apologize (if joking really WAS their intent). But instead we're supposed to blame the person that didn't think it was funny?
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Tuesday, March 14, 2023 - 9:53 am
I guess I'll have to remember to tell you that you are being ignorant the next time I disagree with something that you have said. 
My point is that we are going off on a tangent here and fighting straw men. We're talking about the Oscars. What was said at the Oscars as a joke that was remotely on that level?
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Tuesday, March 14, 2023 - 9:53 am
Legal, thanks! We were posting simultaneously, so I just saw your link on Tone Policing just now and saved it. I get that all the time. And I did it the other day within our Progressives group on Next Door.. So I will start a thread with that link in that group.
Tolerating silliness, maybe. But what is silliness to one person is often felt as cruel and can cause great discomfort.
Compare to reactions to being tickled, when it makes a person feel invaded and uncomfortable. And the person being tickled may laugh nervously, say STOP! But they are told that they are enjoying it, or basically to suck it up.
Happens to children most often, and they lack power to stop it.
Last year I thought maybe Will Smith had simply experienced tolerating silliness and when it was a public humiliation of his wife, it caused this huge reaction. And the perpetrator is still being celebrated and these "comedic" aggressions still are encouraged at the expense of the targets.
Malala was there to support the documentary that she cared about and it would be a shame if the reaction to her discomfort, which she handled with so much grace, would he to question why she was there or think that she should stay home if she is so sensitive.
Yes, Since, I hope that tastes in what people like in comedy is changing, but I fear that isn't happening.
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Scooterrific
Member
07-07-2005
| Tuesday, March 14, 2023 - 9:57 am
Hold on, I'm offended at being called ignorant, I never called you a name, Legal. I was being respectful. Apparently, according to your post, only you can be disrespectful, and everyone who disagrees with you, is ignorant. Good to know.
Karuuna, where did I say that if the person is hurt by what you said, that you should NOT apologize.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, March 14, 2023 - 10:23 am
What was said at the Oscars as a joke that was remotely on that level?
That's not the point. The point is that at one time, if you had complained about a black joke, or homophobic joke, you would have been told you were being too sensitive.
The way we make progress, as we did then, is by having people step up and say what's being said NOW is not okay.
I don't care if you want to call me ignorant (altho I'm going to point out to you that I did NOT use that word, so not sure why you turned that against me  ). However, if it's "ignorant," I'll still stand by those who fight for inclusivity and call out things that are still wrong.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, March 14, 2023 - 10:25 am
Scooter, you said: "if something is said in fun, and the other person takes it too seriously, then that's on them."
Never said anything about requiring an apology, but instead blamed the person who took it "too seriously"? What am I missing? I'll listen if you want to expand your answer.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Tuesday, March 14, 2023 - 10:30 am
It is the point. We are (or were) talking about what was said at this Oscars. The name of the thread is Oscars 2023. We weren't talking about everything awful that has been said and may still be being said for all of history. That is a straw man argument.
Of course, we should continue to try to improve and move forward. LOL I'm not going to fight straw men.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, March 14, 2023 - 10:37 am
I'm sorry you don't seem to be able to make the association. The point is that it was wrong, and by pointing out is how we make progress.
Just like we did when we pointed out those other things were wrong. That is not a straw man argument. We are saying that what happened NOW is like what happened then. It's called an analogy.
Have a lovely day.
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Scooterrific
Member
07-07-2005
| Tuesday, March 14, 2023 - 10:59 am
Karuuna, yes, it's on them, but if the person that said the whatever it was knows that they hurt them, then they should apologize, in some way.
Not because what they did was wrong, but what they said unintentionally hurt the other person.
I'm with Jimmer, I was posting in a thread titled "Oscars 2023", and my comments are directed at a comedian hosting the Oscars, doing entertainment, and not saying anything off color, racist or anything else hateful. People picking everything apart, is just annoying to me.
Enjoy your day.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, March 14, 2023 - 11:04 am
Thank you for elaborating, Scooter... I personally don't think "it's on me" if someone tells a blonde joke and I find it offensive, but it may be different for you.
We do agree about apologies.
I don't think insisting that we be more empathic is picking everything apart. I think it's part of being in society. Everyone has a right to the table. I don't find that annoying. 
I pretty much live by the rule that if people are discussing something I'm not interested in, I move on, I don't insist that they shouldn't, nor do I find it annoying.
Believe me, I know very well these days, life is too short.
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Dipo
Member
04-23-2002
| Tuesday, March 14, 2023 - 12:35 pm
LOL, I think the point is "this is the Oscars' Thread".
I enjoyed the show very much for the first time in years.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, March 14, 2023 - 12:54 pm
LOL, Dipo, it is the Oscars thread for sure, we can agree on that.
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Dipo
Member
04-23-2002
| Tuesday, March 14, 2023 - 1:28 pm
Hahahaha
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Tuesday, March 14, 2023 - 1:31 pm
Yes I am having trouble associating what was said at the 2023 Oscars with "racist, homophobic, sexist, ethnic, ableist, body shaming jokes". No one here is defending that type of “humour”.
It would be helpful if someone could point out what was said at this year’s Oscars that was awful (or will be considered awful at some point in the future) because I can't think of anything?
And yes it is about the 2023 Oscars. That's what we are discussing and how this started in the first place.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Tuesday, March 14, 2023 - 1:58 pm
I don't care if you want to call me ignorant (altho I'm going to point out to you that I did NOT use that word, so not sure why you turned that against me ).
Kar, I hope you understand that I would never say you were being ignorant and I'm sorry that you were hurt by that. I will point out though that is what Legal said to Scooter.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, March 14, 2023 - 2:20 pm
Jimmer, I was not hurt. A bit disappointed that you would imply that I said calling someone ignorant was okay, when I never said that (I only commented on "disrespectful" - very intentionally so).... and FWIW, that is a true straw man argument - making up something that someone said to use in an argument against them.
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Spear
Member
08-05-2001
| Tuesday, March 14, 2023 - 2:31 pm
They may not be rehearsed but these award show bits are obviously scripted and the "randomly-chosen" audience members are prepped. There's just too much risk of something going wrong. I'm sure it wasn't a surprise to Malala and she was given a chance to decline to participate. The joke just fell a bit flat.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Tuesday, March 14, 2023 - 2:35 pm
Well I thought from the emoji that you were sad but I won't try to put words in your mouth.
The words disrespectful and ignorant were originally used together and I didn't parse that difference when you only mentioned disrespectful. Plus I will point out that you agreed with the post in your immediate response to it. Your first words were "I agree"
Anyway, it may be time to move on.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, March 14, 2023 - 3:28 pm
Spear, per Jimmy Kimmel's wife, Malala was not given any heads up about the gag. However, it does not seem like she was bothered by it, even if it made a lot of us uncomfortable.
https://www.therogersvillereview.com/lifestyles/
entertainment/article_10da0f68-8532-506d-8909-91a0274d3136.html
Jimmer, the "I agree" was in a prior post, and it was about whether the comments made at the Oscars were inappropriate. You took that totally out of context.
Your response to "jokingly" say it was okay to call me ignorant was after a subsequent post, after I clearly said there was nothing wrong with saying someone was "disrespectful" *only*, and I didn't think that was funny even tho you put a smile emoticon with it. Sad is not hurt.
I seem to be confusing you, which I seem to do all the time in these conversations. (and that does make me sad also, but not hurt...).
You can move on if you like and there's no need to respond if you don't want to. I prefer to clear up any misunderstandings about my meaning since you keep posting things that are not what I said or meant. I only wish to be understood, as I'm sure you do also.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Tuesday, March 14, 2023 - 4:04 pm
Well sorry I made you sad. Sad or hurt, neither is good.
I’d still like to know what comments were made at the 2023 Oscars that were inappropriate and comparable to all those other awful things that have been mentioned?
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, March 14, 2023 - 4:10 pm
Thank you.
As for what was said, and why it was inappropriate and culturally insensitive, I'm not going there. Sorry, but it was hard enough to simply explain the difference between sad and hurt and disrespectful and ignorant. LOL.
Others addressed it earlier, if you want to go back and read.
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Spear
Member
08-05-2001
| Tuesday, March 14, 2023 - 4:24 pm
Karuuna, I couldn't read the article because of the paywall but I believe you. Thanks for the correction.
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Sincebb1
Member
08-22-2005
| Tuesday, March 14, 2023 - 4:38 pm
I did not know that Jimmy’s wife (Molly McNearney) was executive producer of the Oscars show
I also wasn't aware, when watching the Oscars, that Malala was only 25.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, March 14, 2023 - 4:43 pm
No worries, Spear.
Here's a snip from the article:
Molly said Michael B Jordan, Pedro Pascal, Michelle Yeoh, Steven Spielberg and Andrew Garfield were all informed shortly before the joke was made they would be singled out as part of the gag – which saw the stars pulling faces on camera as they were named by the host.
But she admitted 25-year-old Malala was not told she was later going to be approached by Jimmy in what has been branded a “bizarre” segment of the Oscars.
Molly insisted Malala saw the funny side of the skit, and said the peace campaigner asked at an after party her if her response to Jimmy’s jokes had been “okay”.
Sincebb1 - I didn't either (about Jimmy's wife).
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