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Sugar
Member
08-15-2000
| Friday, March 25, 2022 - 10:37 pm 
Although Kate & Toby's finances have been mentioned a time or two, I suspect the discussion in this thread has been parsed more than it was in the writers room. I believe Kate and Toby were never meant to survive as a couple and the writers have been a bit lackluster with their story and not really concerned with how unrealistic it might be for them to buy a house in San Francisco...
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Dogdoc
Member
09-29-2001
| Saturday, March 26, 2022 - 3:16 am
I kept telling Kate to take her jacket off, as she trudged up that hill. She looked over-heated.
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Sugar
Member
08-15-2000
| Saturday, March 26, 2022 - 11:25 am
I said the same thing Dogdoc, take that jacket off!
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Saturday, March 26, 2022 - 5:39 pm
I think it's safe to say that most people here admire Beth. Rather interestingly, despite the recriminations against Toby for his behavior, Randall did pretty much the same thing (or worse) earlier in the series, when he ran for Councilor against Beth's wishes.
However, unlike Kate, Beth decided to support Randall and moved their family to Philadelphia while at the same time continuing to pursue her dreams. A much better approach.
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Sugar
Member
08-15-2000
| Saturday, March 26, 2022 - 6:55 pm
Jimmer, I had recalled the same thing re Randall. For all his proclamations about doing for others, he can be self serving and selfish. I think Beth puts up with a lot of nonsense with him.
Does anyone recall an episode when young Kevin told Jack that he was so busy making sure that Kate's not eating too much and Randall's too adopted and meanwhile where's Kevin?
That really played through their lives.
It seems that a lot of people here hope Kevin ends up with Cassidy or Madison. I suspect we may see Kevin thriving on his own without a romantic partner.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Saturday, March 26, 2022 - 9:18 pm
Was Kate sweating?? I just remember a summer driving trip, three weeks and San Francisco was the single place between Detroit, the entire southwest and back, where Mom had to break out all the jackets. It is often cold there.
Did Beth have a job she had to leave? Infants? Somewhat different situation, but he's she was supportive of Randall.
Tradition does have wife following husband, for sure, but not sure that is automatically right.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Saturday, March 26, 2022 - 9:43 pm
I think with Randall you can really see his heart in everything he does. He gets to satisfy his need to be needed when he tries to help others but he will put everything he has into trying to improve the situation of the people he focuses on. It's like a calling for him, yes wrapped up in his ego because he truly believes he's the best (and sometimes only) person who can help, but he gives. Hard to live with I'm sure, but I think Beth loves him because of his heart, and understands this side of him.
That's different from Toby wanting to just improve his own situation.
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Strategist
Member
07-01-2014
| Sunday, March 27, 2022 - 7:59 am
The two storylines are entirely different and can't really be compared.
Beth and Randall are supportive of each other. Beth was a ballerina and because of her family situation, she stopped dancing and focused on school. When she wanted to open a dance studio and when it failed, Randall was there to support her through it all. They have always co-parented their children well.
Toby is not there for the family. He is busy enjoying his new life, work, and popularity. He clearly does not understand the challenges and needs of Kate or the children. It was far too easy for him to make big decisions without Kate's knowledge or input. He did not have any qualms with taking them away from everything they love and know.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Sunday, March 27, 2022 - 10:09 am
Interesting. Obviously, I think the two storylines can be compared. 
I don’t see them as all that different at all. Randall was obsessed with running for City Council in a different city and he was hardly ever at home. Beth was a dance instructor and finally getting the opportunity to work in a field that she loves. Randall and Beth had three children in school, with two of them facing significant issues. Beth was clearly opposed to Randall running for City Council and he did it anyway.
At that point, where the storylines diverge is how Beth and Kate respond to the challenges they are facing.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Sunday, March 27, 2022 - 12:08 pm
Don't you think Randall and Toby's motivations were very different? Toby was only serving himself, his family didn't need the extra money (or that much extra money), and he has no higher purpose. Randall was trying to better his father's community.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Sunday, March 27, 2022 - 12:51 pm
That’s a good point. There are many situations where someone neglects their family for a “good/meaningful cause”. The person could be a politician making changes that they feel make a difference or a doctor saving lives. The possibilities are endless. Nevertheless, the bottom line is that their family is still neglected.
To be clear though, I’m not saying that Randall or Toby don’t care about their family. My point is that Beth found a way to support Randall, make things better for their family encouraging him to remain involved and at the same time make a rewarding life for herself doing something she loves. That was a big win for them and IMO very admirable on her part. Unfortunately, Kate appears to be taking a different direction.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Sunday, March 27, 2022 - 2:22 pm
It came at such a bad time for Kate and the children. She'd found local support and resources for her sight impaired son. She'd found a job she loved. Her mum is nearby and needs her. Her brother is nearby. Her best friend is nearby. She feels she has everything she and her children need. Even ignoring the distance thing, Toby's job doesn't help his family's situation - he traded personal fulfillment and time AWAY from his family for extra money for them all, and doesn't seem to be helping anyone else either, although I think I missed what this startup does so maybe I'm wrong on that.
And Kate did try the long distance thing, but it didn't work for either of them. So she tried seeing whether a move to SF worked, but it's clear they wouldn't have seen any more of Toby, he'd still be working all hours, and he didn't really understand the environment they'd need for young Jack.
So she did support Toby, just decided after a long time of trying it out that it doesn't work with what the family needs, only with what he needs.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Sunday, March 27, 2022 - 2:31 pm
This is quite interesting - Chrissy Metz's take on Kate. It's mostly my take too:
https://ew.com/tv/this-is-us-chrissy-metz-breaks-down-kate-toby-san-francisco-fight/
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Strategist
Member
07-01-2014
| Sunday, March 27, 2022 - 3:59 pm
I sign on to your 2:22 post, Kitt. Kate and the family's situation warranted her husband to stand by her. He didn't. Off to read the Entertainment Weekly post.
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Sugar
Member
08-15-2000
| Sunday, March 27, 2022 - 5:26 pm
Perhaps Toby is doing what he thinks is best for his family to be together. Working hard at a job that pays well. He started looking at family homes...
Kate and Toby have rarely been on the same page let alone chapter or book.
Kate may not be doing what is best either but they are both doing what they want to do it seems. Change will always happen, kids adapt whether or not they have issues or special needs.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Sunday, March 27, 2022 - 5:59 pm
Kitt, I agree that it came at a bad time for Kate, much like Randall’s sudden desire to run for Council came at a bad time for Beth.
I think he is Sugar. I just wish that people would have more empathy for what Toby has tried to do and for his mental health as well. He has been clinically diagnosed with depression and is on medication for it. He has tried to make himself a better person. He is trying to make things better for his family. When Randall needed help and encouragement Beth (and Kevin) were there for him. I think everyone here was cheering for that?
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Sunday, March 27, 2022 - 6:11 pm
He's trying, I don't doubt that. And he means well, I don't doubt that either. And he really needed to do something major for his mental health. I don't think he's a bad person at all, and I do have empathy for his needs.
But I just don't think it was a practical decision for his family and he lives in the real world (well actually he doesn't cos this is tv ;) ;) ;)) so if he wants to keep the family together he has to find something that works for them as well as for himself.
Life's tough, you know, sometimes you find something magical for you and it doesn't work for anyone else, so you have to make hard choices. That's where Toby is imo. There could be other excellent options for him that don't take him away from his family, he could at least see if he can find them.... or maybe he will in the upcoming episodes.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Sunday, March 27, 2022 - 6:19 pm
So could Kate.
I just think this whole story and how they’ve done it sucks!
Kevin and Randall are both “Hollywood” beautiful people. So whose marriage do they make fail? The two wonderful relatable characters we rarely see on TV or in movies.
It just pisses me off! 
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Strategist
Member
07-01-2014
| Sunday, March 27, 2022 - 6:38 pm
I think the storyline is beautiful and sad. It is reflective of real life. I think that all the characters are wonderful and relatable in different ways.
Most people beautiful or not go through rocky times in their lives. Some of them are able to remain together, and others can't. Kevin's marriage failed before it ever started! I'm still hoping he finds the right person.
I'm sorry it had to end for Kate and Toby, but I understand why it did. I think it's time for both of them to move on and start fresh with a new family dynamic that is not so dysfunctional.
I'm not frustrated at all with "This is Us". Personally, I'm so happy that they took us through this journey with them. After all, it helped us see things from various perspectives. We would never have had this conversation without this storyline.
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Pamy
Member
01-01-2002
| Sunday, March 27, 2022 - 6:42 pm
I am especially sad since it appears Toby is alone and sad in the future. He isnt a bad guy and deserves a happy ending as much as Kate does.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Sunday, March 27, 2022 - 6:47 pm
Same here, Pamy. There are losers and winners in life. I liked Kate and Toby because, to be blunt, we rarely see an overweight couple on TV or in movies. Most actors do not represent real people. I just wish they had gone a different route. We’ll see how they play it out.
Their children seem to be doing well so that’s a big plus.
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Strategist
Member
07-01-2014
| Sunday, March 27, 2022 - 7:01 pm
I think that Toby's weight loss factored into the sad ending of their marriage. I've seen that happen when a couple has different standards and beliefs about health, fitness, food, values, goals etc. It's terribly difficult to maneuver family life when they are not on the same page with something so important.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, March 27, 2022 - 7:03 pm
I have to say I haven't watched, but have been following along with the posts.
I hate that they made Toby and Kate's marriage fail. For some of the other reasons stated, but also because I remember how wonderful and kind Toby was with Kate in the beginning. Then they made him a jerk. It's just not believable.
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Strategist
Member
07-01-2014
| Monday, March 28, 2022 - 3:50 am
I found Toby to make unkind jokes about others in the beginning. I didn't like him much then. I can agree that he has changed and become less aware of others. I think it is in line with his weight loss. I find it entirely believable. Many people change tremendously after a big weight loss.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Monday, March 28, 2022 - 8:28 am
Do you have any specific examples from back then? I don’t recall anything though I could see him making some sort of fun references to try to make Kate feel better about a given situation. Certainly nothing about Kate and her family though.
At this point I don’t see Toby as a jerk anymore than I thought Randall was a jerk (though that could possibly change in future episodes).
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