| Author |
Message |
Dipo
Member
04-23-2002
| Thursday, December 29, 2016 - 3:52 pm 
Ok, why do they need a military force, that makes no sense to me. How odd.
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Marameko
Member
07-14-2002
| Thursday, December 29, 2016 - 4:25 pm
Good question, I can only attribute this to Hubbard's experience with the Navy. Maybe he thought the uniforms were snazzy and a way to keep members in check.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Thursday, December 29, 2016 - 5:30 pm
Dipo, I would say as a form of indoctrination.
They give amazing levels of responsibility to young and uneducated members.. including what they call auditing.
I think at one time LRH,as they call him, was on a ship, probably to avoid interference of any government, and the sea org was with him as support.
As for needing force, they also have a huge cadre of attorneys who are quite aggressive, along with hired investig, some bof whom you see following Leah.
The FLDS has what they call the God Squad, which is basically intimidators in SUVs, but that is so much smaller than Scientology.
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Mizinvanccouver
Member
02-21-2003
| Friday, December 30, 2016 - 9:49 am
I too am watching Leah R's documentary on Scientology. I'm amazed at how high ranked in the "church" these previous Scientologists she has on her show were.
It seems like Leah was able to have contact with her family while in the church, perhaps that is why they were able to leave together because they were more bonded than other families?
I often wondered about John Travolta's son died if it was related to the church or not. I know they said of a "seizure". http://people.com/celebrity/john-travoltas-16-year-old-son-dies/
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Friday, December 30, 2016 - 3:48 pm
Leah's mother joined first, I think. Leah was in young but they love their celebrities.
What church has an actual Celebrity Center?
I have wondered if the Travolta family was encouraged toward treatment or lack of treatment for their son.. that may not have been such a good thing.
I don't know.
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Mizinvanccouver
Member
02-21-2003
| Friday, December 30, 2016 - 4:15 pm
Seamonkey....true about the "Celebrity Center". lol
Also Travolta was travelling with his family so stil able to family vacations.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Friday, December 30, 2016 - 8:20 pm
Oh trust me, the celebrities aren't locked up .. but they are monitored.. they have minders. Like when Katie was still married to Tom the Scientologists were thick in their home. I think that was a big reason she left and got Suri out of there. Isabella and his son were already thoroughly indoctrinated and had shut Nicole out.
It was at the Tom and Katie marriage that was a BIG DEAL for Scientology where Leah was in trouble for making waves. Daring to ask why her friend Shelly Miscavige was missing from this huge event (Shelly being the wife of David Miscavige who took over after LRH moved on to another realm. David hadn't been the heir apparent but he took over and is still the top guy.. his niece got out and wrote a book and his father also.. his father was on one of Leah's episodes).. anyway Katie is said to have written Leah up for disturbing her wedding.. and that may have been the start of Leah questioning WTH was going on? Of course when she filed a missing person's report on Shelly that caused great havoc.. but there still hasn't been real proof that Shelly is ok.
As Travolta says when asked about Leah, Scientology has taken very good care of him.. I interpret that as they provide what he wants and keep him close..
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Mizinvanccouver
Member
02-21-2003
| Friday, December 30, 2016 - 8:52 pm
Ya, I saw that episode with David Miscavige's father.
Sorry, I had forgotten Tom was married to Nicole Kidman; was Tom already part of Scientology when he married her? Then they raised 2 kids in the church, then she and he divorced?
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Friday, December 30, 2016 - 9:12 pm
Tom's first wife was Mimi Rogers (her second marriage) She introduced him to Scientology (I think Scientology introduced her to him). Her father was a Scientologist (something called a Mission Holder) and friend of LRH and she was brought up in the religion.
She was an auditor with the church and with her first husband, also auditor to Sonny Bono (who was a Scientologist)
Her father left the church and per Andrew Morton was declared a Suppressive Person. Mimi has also left the church.
Vanity Fair alleges that she held an unfavorable view of David Miscavige and in Going Clear" Scientology, Hollywood and the Prison of Belief, the author alleges that Miscavige pushed Rogers from the marriage with Tom Cruise so he could pursue Nicole Kidman.
So Tom has been "handled" by Scientology for a long long time.
Wikipedia.com for some details, and I've read any number of books and articles too.
At one time early on her roomie was Kirstie Alley (also a Scientologist).
She's been an actress (quite profilic!), a substance abuse counselor, a professional poker player
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Mizinvanccouver
Member
02-21-2003
| Friday, December 30, 2016 - 9:31 pm
Wow...so then after Nicole, Katie. Unbelievable.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Friday, December 30, 2016 - 9:42 pm
wow.. just hit on this article.. Mimi's dad didn't like David Miscavige, left the organization, but still practiced.. which made him a "squirrel".
Miscavige really wanted Tom, but Mimi's father was considered a problem, so she was forcedbout, Nicole in and out.. also neither of those wives had kids with Tom, spurring on gay rumors.. each have had children with next husband.
Going to finish article, which is here.
link
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Friday, December 30, 2016 - 9:57 pm
Well, correction.. they encouraged Tom to go for Nicole to help get him divorced, but didn't really want him to marry Nicole because she was a risk since her father was a suppressive person, being a psychologist. But marry they did, with Miscavige as best man.
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Mizinvanccouver
Member
02-21-2003
| Friday, December 30, 2016 - 10:14 pm
Ok, so then Tom does have kids with Katie which quelches the rumors of him being Gay.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Friday, December 30, 2016 - 10:17 pm
Well I'd think it helps.. not that a gay guy cannot father a child, of course and not that I've seen DNA testing. But I really don't care about that so much .. of course Scientology wouldn't want him to be gay..
Scientology is endlessly fascinating and scary too.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Friday, December 30, 2016 - 10:24 pm
"Ok, so then Tom does have kids with Katie which quelches the rumors of him being Gay."
Being a father does not prove a man is straight. Lots of closeted gay men have married women and fathered children.
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Mizinvanccouver
Member
02-21-2003
| Sunday, January 01, 2017 - 1:46 am
Sanfran....I didn't mean to imply Tom was not gay, more that the church 'thought it had quelched the rumour to the public and fellow parishioners.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Sunday, January 01, 2017 - 5:27 pm
That "church" should learn that there's no way to prove that an individual is not gay.
Liberace once sued a tabloid in England for saying he was gay....and he won! 
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Lexie_girl
Member
07-30-2004
| Monday, January 02, 2017 - 12:36 pm
I have a question. One of the women that left the church (her husband left with her but her son, Sammy, is still in the church). She said when she was going to be interrogated, they wanted her to "hold the cans." She said she refused to hold the cans (it looked like they were hooked up to wires). Did I miss the part where they explained the cans?
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Granjan
Member
05-10-2011
| Monday, January 02, 2017 - 1:07 pm
That is their version of a lie detector. The person would hold a cylinder-type "can" in each hand and reaction to questions would register on a meter-type object.
That entire organization is wacko.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Monday, January 02, 2017 - 1:12 pm
They call it auditing and good for her.. basically they cans you hold are wired to a meter which supposedly tells the auditor if you are hiding something. They seem to push to get confessions and you have to pay for all of this.
I think they showed rooms of people being audited.. it can go on for hours.
Leah did show this to the interviewer on 20/20.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Monday, January 02, 2017 - 2:51 pm
The usual pseudo science crap. Totally unproven but they believe it anyway. That is why I said Scientology is based on faith. Of course, the real question is if the leaders truly believe.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Monday, January 02, 2017 - 3:15 pm
It sounds to me that "holding the cans" is the scientology version of putting your hand on a bible.
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Lexie_girl
Member
07-30-2004
| Monday, January 02, 2017 - 3:21 pm
Yeah... the wires made me think it was some sort of lie detector test (which obviously no one can pass)
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Monday, January 02, 2017 - 4:06 pm
EDA (measurement of electrodermal activity) is used in professional lie detectors...it's not pseudoscience. The ones used by scientology are no better or worse than most modern lie detectors... that is they have some use but aren't foolproof. 
However, whether they use it correctly or not is up for argument.
I'm more bothered that they would use it to intimidate/control people, than it being pseudoscience.
That says "cult" not religion or faith/belief.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, January 03, 2017 - 7:28 am
They take a little science and dress it up and warp it to say what they want it to say. That is what I meant by pseudoscience crap. Plus who knows how those Scientology test devices actually work. I suspect the person doing the testing has considerable input on the results. I've never heard of a "clear" in science. 
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