| Author |
Message |
Kitkat
Member
08-23-2008
| Tuesday, December 27, 2016 - 9:35 am 
The Church of Scientology practically own Clearwater, FL.
The Tampa Bay Times has done extensive investigations on them. Here are some of their previous reports:
http://www.tampabay.com/topics/specials/scientology.page
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, December 27, 2016 - 9:56 am
I think Kar expressed my feelings on this better than I did. 
I think it's wrong to make fun of their beliefs, when a lot of other religions have their own unique beliefs that may appear strange to non-believers.
However, all the things that Kar mentioned are things that make me uncomfortable with it as well.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Tuesday, December 27, 2016 - 11:44 am
Gosh, there IS no fun involved. And Leah isn't making fun of anything. She understands why people think they are doing a good thing and then get taken for vast amounts of money and believe so strongly that someone with the medical credentials of Tom Cruise or Kirstie Ally feel empowered to publicly chastise someone for going to therapy or taking antidep for post partum. Heck, tgey tell women not to vocalize during childbirth, so as not to traumatize the child.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, December 27, 2016 - 2:30 pm
I wasn't specifically referencing Leah when I made that comment. I'm talking about other people who have made fun of other aspects of the religion or belief.
IMO, Leah has shown a lot of courage breaking away and discussing it publicly.
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Heckagirl631
Member
09-08-2010
| Tuesday, December 27, 2016 - 9:18 pm
Know it's not the right place, but enjoyed the Kennedy Center Honors. Especially found the Eagles tribute bittersweet.
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Jasper
Moderator
09-14-2000
| Tuesday, December 27, 2016 - 10:50 pm
I have found the show Leah is doing fascinating. I'm a little naïve about Scientology so I've found it quite enlightening. In my head I have always related it to celebrity and American, wrongly so.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Tuesday, December 27, 2016 - 11:35 pm
They definitely cater to celebrities.. and they keep someone (minders) very close to one of their prime celebrity members.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Scientologists
They would like to be in more countries but some haven't embraced them, I guess. They may not get the same tax breaks they get here, and since they are considered a church, legally, they get a pass in the name of "religious freedom".
This summarizes their status in various countries..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_status_by_country
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Rieann
Member
08-26-2006
| Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 2:46 am
I've read several books and watched many documentaries on Scientology over the years. I have to say this docu-series is VERY powerful. Bravo to Leah!
Last night I had my Twitter feed on and Leah tweeted this woman's video about titled, 'Why You Can't Be Gay In Scientology'...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-lkYwv-nHQ
Brought me to tears. Other religions may condemn homosexuality, but their "PR Machines" don't deny that they do.
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Rieann
Member
08-26-2006
| Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 2:52 am
The above video struck me as I remember writer/ director Paul Haggis (member for over 35 years- he left in 2009) saying a major impetus for him to leave was the church's silence about its thoughts on homosexuality. He knew a California church was actively campaigning for prop 8 and the higher ups didn't speak out. Here is great article by the writer of 'Going Clear', about Haggis' departure from the church...
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2011/02/14/the-apostate-lawrence-wright
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 9:26 am
I just don't see how Scientology can qualify as a religion.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 10:32 am
Why not?
I could guess but I think it's better to just ask.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 10:50 am
Scientology (IMO) only claims to be a religion for the tax benefits.
Scientology is really Dianetics, a term developed by Hubbard for a way of thinking. When he lost the rights to Dianetics, he renamed it Scientology. He originally intended that to be a field of science as well. Then he changed his mind, writing a letter expounding the legal and financial benefits of being a religion.
So, he founded a religion based on the financial benefits, but that was never his original intent. He then adapted the system to contain certain "spiritual" beliefs to support that process. It's a bit backward way of founding a religion, and quite duplicitous.
It would be like calling Psychology a religion. We could incorporate behaviorists as a church of inspired beliefs, right? 
That's just one reason.. there are more, but I'll let you ponder this for now.
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Sadiesmom
Member
03-13-2002
| Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 12:06 pm
I have not read a lot about scientology, I just knew people who belonged or did not want to belong and were being stalked. I don't think they do it as much as they used to, but my friend from Boston had to leave the city and move to NYC to get away from them. She said they camped outside her apartment and followed her when ever she went out, demanding she comeback for another audit. She went for an audit at the behest of a friend who belonged and said it would help her, She was quite over weight and depressed about it but she was quite beautiful and had a lovign family she was devoted to, so this was never going to work. She said at the audit, they kept insulting her and calling her names and telling her what she thought,. this was not a good thing with my independent friend, she said thanks but no thanks,. For some reason they thought they could bend her to their will, that was never going to happen, but they make her feel threatened.
Then there was the girl downstairs in my apartment building, who could not afford where she was living, she sang - very loudly in your face and though Scientology would make her famous, look at all the stars they had. She was a methodist before, I asked her a lot of questions because since I was already friends with the person from Boston, I could not figure out why anyone would join. One thing she said cracked me up, She said she could break my leg if she thought about it - I asked her why she would want to break my leg since I was feeding her? (she had so little money and most of it went to Scientology courses). She said it was if she wanted, she did not want to break my leg so I would be OK. I asked her how much she spent on courses, how high a level did she think she would become. She really didn't know much about the organization.
Then Scientology tried to buy a building in an adjoining town, but they zoned them out of it deliberately, only the Scientologists were upset, but they decided too much trouble to sue this illegal act. We had already gone through a Moonie invasion and tolerance for these cult/religions was wearing thin. I also had 2 friends in EST. I decided it was easier to get new friends than deal with their constant recruitment nonsense, so I froze them out. We were not close, and we were destined to not get any closer. I need some quality bathroom time, something EST people could not respect.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 12:56 pm
Heh, I went through the EST training in California in my 20s. I failed. LOL.
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Lexie_girl
Member
07-30-2004
| Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 1:45 pm
I'm three episodes behind on my DVR of Leah's documentary. Hopefully I will catch up on my long weekend. I find this absolutely fascinating. It is amazing how they terrorized people after they left the church. And as far as I can tell, Miscavige's wife still has not been seen in public in over 10 years. He produced a "photograph" of her but that's it.
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Sadiesmom
Member
03-13-2002
| Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 2:34 pm
was she holding a newspaper with a recent date? cough cough photoshop
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Reader234
Member
08-13-2000
| Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 3:18 pm
I do admire Leah, she had to have a strong spirit yo go through with even mentioning it on her reality show, the documentary is heartbreaking
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 3:20 pm
It would be like calling Psychology a religion. We could incorporate behaviorists as a church of inspired beliefs, right?
That's pretty funny!
Except psychology is based on science and Scientology (despite the name) is based on faith. There's nothing scientific about it.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 3:28 pm
I don't see where the faith comes in.
It started with Science Fiction.
Power, control and MONEY are the main themes, even though they claim to be saving the world.
Seems you can't be gay, but if you are married and active in the organization then you don't dare get pregnant, or you are scheduled for an abortion. And if you join WITH kids, you don't get to raise them, or even have contact with them for the most part.
Having young kids join Sea Org and sign billion year contracts...
And if you quit they hound you to pay for all the instruction you got, even though you may have literally been almost forced labor for the group.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 3:31 pm
What do you call it when a large group (thousands/millions) of people or followers believe something that is unproven? Is it faith? I guess it's a cult, maybe?
Look .... in case it isn't clear, I'm not defending these people. 
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 5:10 pm
Gullible, desperate, possibly delusional, searching, hopeful, indoctrinated, brainwashed, conditioned.
I don't care what people believe until it impinges on others, what they believe, who they are, their freedom.
A memoir I recently read dealt with the state of Utah, among others, giving parents rights over their children that.. in the case of this young woman, when she told them she was gay, the mainstream Mormon parents, here in California, sent her off to where her grandparents lived and she was placed with foster parents who used rather extreme methods, to say the least and it took years and a really devoted attorney working pro bono to wrest this girl away from things like standing facing a wall for hours on ene with a backpack full of rocks.. AND finally getting her parents to agree not to turn her over to someone who would try to make her straight.
The interesting thing was this was done in order to supposedly ensure that this girl would be with her family in the afterlife.
Oh.. but in reality, since her mom was sealed to her first husband, then he died, her second marriage wasn't able to be sealed so she and her second husband, father of this daughter, wouldn't be together in the afterlife anyway.
So is that faith or abuse?
And I certainly realize that there are no easy answers or clear lines.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 5:43 pm
One of the interesting things about Scientology is it so often seems to attract people with a lot of resources. Famous and rich people. You wouldn't think they'd be desperate and gullible but I guess they're looking for some additional meaning to their lives?
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Vsmart
Member
02-10-2003
| Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 6:34 pm
They join hoping to get connections for a part or behind the camera job. Just like joining a country club.
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Dipo
Member
04-23-2002
| Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 7:15 pm
I have never understood the purpose of the Sea Org. And so far I haven't hear anything on the show that explains why they need it, other than to take the children.
But is there something they are supposed to be doing?
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, December 28, 2016 - 7:21 pm
It's a paramilitary force.
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