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Message |
Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, January 13, 2016 - 8:27 pm 
The interview with his ex-fiance was on TV - both on Dr. Drew and Nancy Grace.
They showed a photo of the letter, and verified the story about her beating, and his dragging her out of the house.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, January 13, 2016 - 8:28 pm
And I wish they would stop saying he served 18 years for a crime he didn't commit.
It was a *concurrent* sentence for a crime he DID commit, against his cousin. For which he was sentenced to 6 years.
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Scooterrific
Member
07-08-2005
| Wednesday, January 13, 2016 - 8:30 pm
I am sorry what crime was that?
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Ranger2
Member
08-08-2008
| Thursday, January 14, 2016 - 3:56 am
This still doesn't prove that he killed Teresa. Yes, he's done a lot of horrible things in his life, I don't think anyone is denying that, but how does this prove that he killed someone? Karuuna, I know your opinion is that he killed Teresa, and my opinion differs. We are all entitled to our opinions.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, January 14, 2016 - 7:23 am
We are all entitled to our opinions.
Of course.
It's a moral dilemma when an obviously awful unrepentant person is in prison for a specific crime that they "may" not have committed.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, January 14, 2016 - 10:38 am
I am sorry what crime was that?
It's been talked about here multiple times. When he ran his cousin off the road and then held her at gunpoint. Because she reported him for exposing himself to her *several times* when she drove by his house.
Avery admitted running Morris off the road and brandishing a rifle. He was sentenced to six years in prison for endangering the safety of another person.
In fact, he tried to force her into his car at gunpoint, and only relented when he saw she had her baby with her.
The sentences for this and the rape were "concurrent" so 6 years of that 18 are uncontested. He was guilty and deserved to go to jail.
Note that he was *already* a felon when this occurred, for robbery and the cat murder, so it was illegal for him to even possess a firearm.
http://www.milwaukeemag.com/2006/05/01/blood-simple/
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, January 14, 2016 - 10:42 am
We are all entitled to our opinions.
As Jimmer said, of course we are. This is a discussion board, so all views are welcome.
And while it is a moral dilemma for some that he may be in jail for a crime he didn't commit, it's not for me.
He terrorized animals, women, his own family. He was a sexual deviant long before he went to prison for 18 years, so I don't buy claims that prison made him go bad.
He's a psychopath. He needs to be locked up.
If he gets out, he WILL assault another woman. I would bet my life on it.
So, no moral dilemma for me. Especially since I think the evidence does point to him. All this so-called planting of evidence was covered during the trial, the jury heard all about it (BOTH sides, unlike the 'documentary') and they found him guilty.
I don't care about Steven Avery. I care about the many women he has already terrorized and Teresa's family.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, January 14, 2016 - 10:52 am
I thought this was interesting, an analysis of Avery's statement to the judge:
http://statement-analysis.blogspot.com/2015/12/steve-averys-statement-at-sentencing.html
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Scooterrific
Member
07-08-2005
| Thursday, January 14, 2016 - 8:33 pm
His ex fiance does not think he's guilty
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Scooterrific
Member
07-08-2005
| Thursday, January 14, 2016 - 8:38 pm
Karuuna I have to ask what you are basing your thoughts on..were you in the court room? I am not trying to be disrespectful. .just wondering what I'm missing
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Scooterrific
Member
07-08-2005
| Thursday, January 14, 2016 - 8:45 pm
Oh and as for the statement analysis. ..I didn't see anything that took into account his lower IQ
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Scooterrific
Member
07-08-2005
| Thursday, January 14, 2016 - 8:47 pm
And I will admit he was guilty of posessing a fire arm
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, January 14, 2016 - 8:47 pm
Scooter, did you see the interview on Nancy Grace? They flat out ask her if she thinks he did and she says yes. In fact, she says that he was supposed to pick her up at jail that day to go to an "alcohol class", and they wouldn't let her out. For that reason, she blames herself, because if he had picked her up, then Teresa wouldn't be dead. She even went to 6 months of counseling to deal with the guilt.
She says she was coerced into being nice for the documentary - well, threatened would be a better word. She was afraid of him. When the documentary makers went back for additional comments, she ASKED them to take her previous comments out. They wouldn't.
So I don't know what you're missing. The information I'm getting is all available online or via current tv reports that are not so one-sided. It's just not in the documentary.
I went back and read all the original newspaper articles from when he was convicted, for one thing, from 2006. And it's clear from them that every one of these things that are said to be police tampering were reported on by the journalist who did attend the trial, every day of all 6 weeks. From the car key, to the blood in the car, to who found Teresa's car on the property, to the bullet.
I've posted links to all of these things as well, except the TV shows.
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Cricket
Member
08-05-2002
| Thursday, January 14, 2016 - 8:48 pm
I just read an article that said his ex said he was a monster and beat her.
Avery's Ex-Fiance Says He's A Monster Behind Closed Doors
Scooter, if you read the article she definitely thinks he's guilty. She's not so sure about the nephew.
I hope these women who produced this series are made to realize the damage they've done with all their editing and changing the order of how things really happened. This man is a murderer; he planned how to torture and rape a woman while in prison. He is not a good person.
WI or the city of Manitowac should sue Netflix so the truth will come out about how twisted around this mockumentary was. They need to clear the names of the police in Manitowac. Unfortuately, I think they may be too nice to do it.
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Scooterrific
Member
07-08-2005
| Thursday, January 14, 2016 - 8:51 pm
I don't know whose that person is
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, January 14, 2016 - 8:52 pm
Scooter, he was first in jail for burglarly. Then he served time for the cat murder. Then he was arrested (briefly) for attacking his fiance. Then he was arrested for holding his cousin at gunpoint. When he was out on bail for that assault and possessing a firearm (because he was already a convicted felon) that's when Penny was raped.
He was sentenced for both of those crimes to serve the sentences concurrently. 6 years for assault and weapon and 32 years for the attack on Penny.
In addition to that, Brendan told his mother that Steven had threatened all of them and molested them as well, in a phone call from jail.
This is a seriously mentally ill individual who is also very dangerous.
Given that all this evidence (that the documentary paints as tampering) was presented at trial and they still found him guilty, I think he's guilty.
I have yet to see one thing that is convincing about the tampering - once you hear BOTH sides of the story, and not just the one the documentary presents.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, January 14, 2016 - 8:54 pm
I don't know whose that person is
Nancy Grace has a nightly show on HLN that reviews crime cases.
The interview was also shown on Dr. Drew, who also has a nightly show on HLN.
The article Cricket links to is the interview I'm referring to, on HLN.
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Ranger2
Member
08-08-2008
| Friday, January 15, 2016 - 4:26 am
What "evidence" did the documentary leave out I didn't know about the DNA found under the hood of the car, but I'd like to see the testimony for that. I'm not good at searching the internet for things, and that's what I'd like to see, the transcripts of the trial, not newspaper reports, because I know not to believe everything you read in the newspaper. All this background about Steven Avery, was that presented in court? If not, then it has nothing to do with Teresa's murder, so it probably couldn't be presented. My other question, is there any proof at all that Steven raped Teresa? This is another thing that bothers me...if there is no proof of this, why did the police say that he did? Is that fair to her parents? I'm almost positive that they found no DNA of Teresa in Steven's trailer, which if she was in there, something should've been found. From the pictures I did find, I don't believe for a minute he handcuffed her to his bedpost, because there's no scratches on the bedpost. My point being...I know that Steven Avery has done many horrendous things in his life..that's one of the first things I told my sister when we talked about this, but what I mainly got from this documentary is how the judicial system failed, and how the police railroaded this to go the way they wanted. And if it's been done once, you know it's been done many, many times, and that isn't right. I've always thought police planted evidence or tampered with evidence, but that's the proof I got out of this whole thing. Who do the police think they are to be able to plant and tamper with evidence to make things go the way they want? That is not right. Teresa and her family deserved better than that. My mother was murdered 28 years ago...the case is still unsolved, so I live with that every day. I want to know who did it, and I want to know the truth, not what the police "think" happened.
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Snoopsmom
Member
02-19-2003
| Friday, January 15, 2016 - 1:48 pm
I don't know anything about this case, but happened on Dr. Phil's show today and this is the topic. He has Nancy Grace on and they are getting fired up!
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Friday, January 15, 2016 - 1:49 pm
Oh, thanks for the heads up, I'll be sure to watch!
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Friday, January 15, 2016 - 1:53 pm
Ranger, I've already posted many links to the information, including links that quote the court transcripts. Since the transcripts are not available in full, we don't have them.
But the *affidavits* filed did include his rapes of 2 other women. And I've posted that here before.
I've also posted resources that refute every instance of this supposed tampering.
So, what you got from only watching the documentary was only one side. Not the refutation of that tampering, which was presented in court.
I am deeply sorry about what happened to your mother. I cannot imagine living with that pain, and the pain of not knowing.
But Teresa Halbach's family know who killed her. And now they are living with the pain of having this all dredged up again... and in a very unfair way.
I agree that police should not tamper with evidence. But the makers of this documentary have 'tampered' also, by only presenting one side of the story.
Now the police and prosecutors are getting death threats. It's insane.
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Rupertbear2
Member
07-15-2015
| Friday, January 15, 2016 - 2:12 pm
I am also deeply sorry for the loss of your Mother, Ranger.
Karuuna is correct. The trial transcripts are not yet available online.
From the website
They accurately noted that although some of the Avery trial court documents (as well as the Dassey trial transcripts) are publicly accessible as mentioned in the article, the Avery trial transcripts are not available online, nor are all the documents from Avery’s case file, including evidence exhibits. Copies of the Avery trial transcripts can be obtained from the Manitowoc County Clerk of Courts, although since the fees involved can run as high as $9,000, the Reddit group has organized a crowdfunding campaign to raise money to get them online. For more details, or to contribute, visit the campaign website.
https://www.romper.com/p/transcripts-from-steven-averys-case-are-online-making-a-murderer-fans-need-to-check-them-out-3623
As a side note: I have been reading at the Statement Analysis BlogSpot, that Karuuna proved a link for, further up the thread.
It is absolutely fascinating to me how accurate these are, when given how deceptive people can be, in crimes they have committed.
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Colordeagua
Member
10-24-2003
| Friday, January 15, 2016 - 3:39 pm
Karuuna said:
I agree that police should not tamper with evidence. But the makers of this documentary have 'tampered' also, by only presenting one side of the story.
So the police DID tamper with evidence. Meaning Avery is deserving of a re-trial with an honest guilty verdict or not guilty. I think Kathleen Zellner will get the re-trial for him.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Friday, January 15, 2016 - 3:50 pm
Sorry, that's not what I meant. My post was poorly written.
I have stated clearly in many other posts that I do not believe that there is any evidence of tampering by police in THIS case. Avery was tried and found guilty fairly.
I was trying to make the point that I have a conviction that police (in general) should not tamper, and I also think that TV producers (film students) should not mislead people either.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-02-2002
| Saturday, January 16, 2016 - 6:41 pm
What bothers me most about this case is the nephew. Reminds me a bit of the West Memphis 3 who spent years in prison after one of the boys confessed. He was also mentally deficient and young and questioned without a lawyer or adult present. The idea that innocent people never confess is just not true at all - especially uneducated, young and unintelligent kids who are let to believe they will get to go home if they tell detectives what they want to hear and then are fed a story to repeat. Ugh. Just makes me furious.
As for Steven, it's so obvious the police had a bias against him. They ignored information that questioned his rape conviction and I understand that they felt he's a bad guy anyway and belonged in jail, if not for that crime, then for others. But still, they had no business helping in the search of his place. They should have done a better job of distancing themselves.
We all know that it happens, where cops fudge information because they "know" they have the right guy, but not the details to prove it. Does anyone have a clear understanding of how this bullet got into the garage but there isn't other blood evidence? These are not neat and tidy people. The garage was like a junk yard itself. I don't believe she was killed in there.
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