| Author |
Message |
Ranger2
Member
08-08-2008
| Saturday, January 09, 2016 - 5:16 am 
Yes, Naja, that's the show I was talking about. They had interviews with Penny, her husband, and then Ken Kratz, and I really don't believe a word that comes out of that mans' mouth. But penny would have no reason to lie at all, so I did believe what she had to say.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Saturday, January 09, 2016 - 11:32 am
Thanks, Naja - I did find that last night. That show certainly seems to have come to the conclusion that while he wasn't guilty of the rape, he was guilty of the murder.
Abby- I don't believe he deserves a new trial, and he won't get one unless there is no evidence. He is out of appeals.
The reason I don't believe he deserves a new trial, is that these things that the documentary presents as "framing" did not happen the way the documentary says they did. They distorted that information to make their viewers believe he was framed.
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Cricket
Member
08-05-2002
| Saturday, January 09, 2016 - 3:22 pm
Penny Beernsten stated in the Daily Mail article I quoted from yesterday that Steven Avery met with her after he was released and wanted her to give him money for a house. That's weird.
She felt bad that she identified him as her rapist and the DNA didn't prove that, but she didn't give him money.
I am extremely dismayed how all the news stations are believing every word in this so-called documentary and the world is being give misinformation.
Avery now has a new hotshot lawyer. When will this end. He is the killer of Teresa Halbach. She is the victim, not Avery.
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Boberg
Member
10-04-2002
| Tuesday, January 12, 2016 - 7:35 am
Thanks for all the extra info everyone...in the documentary even Avery family members said he got blamed "because he was an Avery"...which led me to believe there was a long history there but the documentary never goes into that history in any detail or explanatory way.
Left me wondering...so why does "being an Avery" make the community dislike you? Documentary should have included the history there but I guess that was not their intent.
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Scooterrific
Member
07-08-2005
| Tuesday, January 12, 2016 - 9:24 am
Boberg it talked about it in the first episode, I believe.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, January 12, 2016 - 11:10 am
It was because the Avery family had a long criminal history.
Steven Avery once ran a deputy sheriff's wife off the road and then held her at gunpoint. She was also his cousin. That was also in 1985, when Penny was attacked and raped.
He was sentenced for 6 years for that attack, served concurrently with the 18 for Penny's rape.
So, really, he was only falsely imprisoned for 12 years, because the first 6 years were deserved.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, January 12, 2016 - 11:11 am
Cricket, not all of the news shows are falling for it, thank goodness.
I heard one CNN commentator say, and rightly so, where is the concern for Teresa's family in all of this? Why doesn't anyone care about what they are being put through?
And more and more stories are coming out and saying clearly how one-sided the mockumentary is.
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Ranger2
Member
08-08-2008
| Tuesday, January 12, 2016 - 1:29 pm
http://imgur.com/a/ELxbZ
Karruna, you asked to see a picture of where they found the key, and I think this link shows it. The picture is a ways down on the page. Supposedly the key fell out of the bookcase after Colbern picked the bookcase up and shook it. What I find interesting now, is that his shaking of the bookcase didn't disturb any of the items in the bookcase or on the bookcase. I may have to go back and rewatch his testimony, but I'm almost certain he said that he shook that bookcase. Oh, but Colbern wasn't the one to find the key, Lenk was. So maybe Colbern shook the case, put everything back, but didn't see the key? Maybe, but I don't think I buy it.
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Ranger2
Member
08-08-2008
| Tuesday, January 12, 2016 - 1:31 pm
https://justiceforbradcooper.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/side-by-side-key.png?w=700&h=274
Here's a better picture.
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Scooterrific
Member
07-08-2005
| Tuesday, January 12, 2016 - 3:30 pm
http://www.avclub.com/article/read-pro-steven-avery-list-what-was-left-out-makin-230634
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, January 12, 2016 - 3:45 pm
Thank you Ranger. I still don't believe the key was planted.
If it was planted, there would be no reason to wipe Teresa's DNA from it. That's not something the cops would do.
It is something a murdered would do.
As for claiming that nothing else was moved in the bookcase, your pictures don't show that. They show the bookcase before it was shaken, and then only the back of it.
But I don't think the testimony was that it was "shaken" only that it was "moved."
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, January 12, 2016 - 3:51 pm
Scooter -that list is nonsense. Some of it doesn't even coincide with the evidence presented at trial.
Trying to blame the tech for placing Avery's DNA on the hood latch, when that DNA was found weeks later (not at the time), and it was a different DNA (skin cells on the hood latch, blood in the car).
It doesn't even make logical sense.
Clothing - the only one who disagrees with what she was wearing was Bobby Dassey. Not exactly a credible witness. Her jean rivets were found in the fire.
The fire - several pathologists have noted that the reason tires were added to the fire were to make it burn hot enough to destroy a body.
the gun - that article quotes the gun evidence incorrectly. the article says: William Newhouse, a gun expert with the Wisconsin State Crime Lab, said he couldn’t conclusively link a bullet found in a crack in Avery’s garage to a .22-caliber rifle seized from his bedroom
Here's what the witness *actually* said: Newhouse testified that the bullet could not have been fired from any other gun. He also said that all 11 cartridge casings found in Avery's garage were fired from the .22-caliber rifle.
I'm not buying the defense story, it's their job to cast doubt. This guy is a psychopath, and I have no doubt that he murdered her.
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Ranger2
Member
08-08-2008
| Tuesday, January 12, 2016 - 4:27 pm
Here is Colborn's testimony about the search on November 8th with the bookshelf.
colborn's testimony...Kratz asks "Did you move or manipulate this piece of furniture?" Colborn answers "I'll be the first to admit, I handled it rather roughly, twisting it, shaking it, pulling it." He then went to search the desk, when Lenk said, hey, there's a key here.
Maybe he did empty the bookshelf before he twisted it, shook it, and pulled it, but then he put it back and put everything back on the shelves, but didn't see the key. Sorry, sloppy police work there.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, January 12, 2016 - 4:30 pm
Where is the testimony that says he did all that without displacing anything?
And how do you know everything was put back on the shelves?
I'm not sure what you mean by sloppy police work. Yes, they do shake things and tear them apart and make a mess of things when they search.
And again, I have to ask, why would THEY wipe her DNA off the key? Only the murderer would have motive to do that.
And why would they separate the lanyard, leaving part of it in the car? Again, not something they would do when planting evidence.
It just seems to me that you have to contort things quite extensively to get to the idea that they planted this key.
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Ranger2
Member
08-08-2008
| Tuesday, January 12, 2016 - 4:36 pm
Karuuna, please look at the first link I provided...here it is again. http://imgur.com/a/ELxbZ
You have to scroll through quite a few pictures, there are about 50 pictures, and it's about 5th from the bottom. It clearly shows the shelf with things neatly placed on the shelf, which does not show a mess you would expect to see from a search!
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, January 12, 2016 - 4:41 pm
Okay, I see what you mean.
Still not buying that it was planted, because of the other things I mentioned.
And even if it was, still not buying that Avery is innocent, because of the copious amounts of additional evidence against him.
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Scooterrific
Member
07-08-2005
| Tuesday, January 12, 2016 - 6:15 pm
I don't think he's necessarily innocent, but I believe they deserve new trials
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, January 12, 2016 - 6:33 pm
I don't think Avery does. I don't see anything that warrants a new trial. All these claims of tampering were raised during the trial...it's nothing new. That's why he can't get a new trial, none of this is NEW evidence. It was all dealt with during the trial!
He has filed a new appeal, but it's not based on any of this. It's based on "improper search." So obviously, even his new attorneys don't even think any of this has a legal basis for a new trial.
I'm okay with Brian getting one, based on ineffective council. He should never have been allowed to be interviewed by the police without his attorney present.
But I think that about all young people, not just in this case.
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Rieann
Member
08-26-2006
| Wednesday, January 13, 2016 - 9:41 am
It is interesting that Steven's new lawyer, Kathleen Zellner, is working Tricia Bushnell, legal director of the Midwest Innocence Project. The Innocence Project has avoided this case until now. They worked on his first case, but avoided this one.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, January 13, 2016 - 10:44 am
Steven Avery's ex-fiance is going to be on Nancy Grace tonight.
I gather she thinks he's guilty, from the promos.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, January 13, 2016 - 10:48 am
So far, the Innocence Project says there is nothing in the evidence to show they should get involved. Contrary to the documentary.
They have said if "new evidence" shows up, they'll consider it.
Which goes to what I said earlier, all this information that the documentary showed was available and considered at trial, and the jury still found him guilty.
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Colordeagua
Member
10-24-2003
| Wednesday, January 13, 2016 - 12:33 pm
FWIW which is nothing, Kathleen Zellner's office is just four miles from me-- 1901 Butterfield Rd., Downers Grove, IL. Take Westmore / Meyers Rd. to Butterfield, turn right, 2 -3 miles -- there you are!! So close, but another world in that law office.
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Rieann
Member
08-26-2006
| Wednesday, January 13, 2016 - 4:24 pm
That's what I thought was interesting, Karuuna. The Innocence Project wanted no part of the case previously, but they are now getting involved in the project with Zellner. She works with them a lot. I wonder what the new evidence is.
I only watched the documentary to the third episode.
Color, drive down to Zellner's office and find out what the new evidence is. 
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, January 13, 2016 - 6:35 pm
I cannot fathom for one minute why they are helping this awful man. Only so he can get out (possibly) and hurt some other woman?
Geez... his ex-fiance has shared the letter he sent her from jail in September, that told her if she didn't make him look good on Netflix AND send him money, he was going to frame her for drunk driving or driving without a license.
The incident where he had to stay away from her for 72 hours? He beat her to a pulp! Then when she called police, he dragged her out of the house and tried to drive away to hide her injuries from them (all documented).
After that, he ripped the phone out of the wall, so she couldn't call for help the next time. So she ate rat poison, so he'd have to take her to the hospital, so she could try and get help.
But yeah, poor little Steven Avery, so wronged by the rest of the world.
Shoot me now.
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Scooterrific
Member
07-08-2005
| Wednesday, January 13, 2016 - 8:25 pm
Karuuna can you please give me a source on that..this is new information to me so I am very curious
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