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Lostfan
Member
03-10-2010
| Monday, November 18, 2013 - 8:50 pm 
We'll the David Moressy (sp) did say in talking bad that the gov is like a jeckle and Hyde - this is his good side protecting the family- but he has a bad side that he
Can snap in a quick moment
Also he told the family his name was Brian and he is now worried what Garcia might so to rat out his true identity.
Don't think he will be all kumba ya with Rick and crew
His jeckle side will still want revenge on rick
I'm wondering if on his route to prison or where ever they are going he runs into Carol.... Hope carol joins his posse- LOL
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - 9:48 am
Correct me if I am wrong, but David M said at the very beginning that the show was a flashback. That the *first* scene of a cleaned up Gov staring at the prison was actually the most recent scene, and then they went back and show how he evolved (or not) after his murder rampage.
So, I still think the prison is in his sights.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - 10:00 am
The last show of the previous episode, where the Governor was seen staring at the prison as Rick and Carl walked across the yard back inside was in the now, followed the usual timeline we've been watching at the prison.
This week's episode was all in the past. It started with the Governor shooting all the Woodsbury folk and driving off with Martinez and ... guy whose name I can't remember. Then they must have stayed together for a little while before Martinez+1 gave up on him and went off on their own. Then the Governor goes walkabout, and describes it as something like "at least two months" (can't remember the wording but it had "two months" in it) when he talks to the older woman. Then he stays with the girls until the dad dies, and then they decide to leave and soon meet back up with Martinez (and that's where the episode left off).
The prison timeline this season started about seven months after the end of last season, so the Governor story - if they start where they left off on Sunday - is up to about four months ago, in that gap when everything was rosy in the prison and we didn't see what happened.
Somewhere between four months ago and now (hopefully to be shown in the next episode) the Governor goes from protector of the girls to alone staring at the prison.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - 10:28 am
Thanks, Kitt!
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Rehtse
Member
08-17-2005
| Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - 2:06 pm
Thanks, Kitt! I've been all sorts of confused.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - 2:43 pm
"Governor goes from protector of the girls to alone staring at the prison."
How do we know that he's not still protecting the girls in the present? I would assume that he wouldn't take his new "family" with him to spy on the prison.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - 3:00 pm
I don't think we do know, but why I think it's all gone wrong is because of the rats. It's possible he's decided he couldn't protect the girls and they would have been better off at the prison (although he might have quickly discounted that if he'd watched what happened there the last few days!) but that doesn't solve the rat mystery. I think the rats have to come from the Governor (or his minion) and I don't know that the new good-guy-Governor who seems to be trying to shed his old self would decide to seek revenge on the prison group. More likely he'd only go back to that state of mind if something bad had happened to the women and he was alone.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, November 19, 2013 - 3:05 pm
I agree with you Kitt. Either he's reformed and all he cares about is protecting his new "family", or he's still Mr. Hyde and wants revenge on Michonne.
I vote Mr. Hyde.
It was interesting that the actor said the flip could still switch (to Mr. Hyde) also.
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Rehtse
Member
08-17-2005
| Sunday, November 24, 2013 - 7:41 pm
He's Mr. Hyde.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Sunday, November 24, 2013 - 10:24 pm
Poor Underwater-Walker-Pete!! That was pretty horrific! And poor Martinez!
Did everyone watch Talking Dead? In it they showed clips from the next episode (mid season finale ALREADY!!) and the Governor said (talking about the prison) "they're going to realise that their people are gone"????!??? Noooooo! Coupled with the end and the Governor's gun pointed at Hershel and Michonne and it looks very bad...
And the main trailer said "Some will Fall" 
Who killed the people in the small settlement? Was it meant to be Mitch?
It seemed like the Governor has just decided to have his new town's folk live at the prison... does that mean he wasn't behind the rats? In the main timeline the rats have been fed to the walkers all five days of the season and they talked about more coming than there used to be, so maybe there'd been rats for 10 days max (guess). If so, perhaps we're meant to think the Governor is resonsible, and started with the the rats after their failed attempt to flee (scuppered by the walker mud pit) when the Governor first mentioned the prison ("we can find a better place if we're willing to fight for it"). It's possible, although it didn't seem like it, that there were a few days between that incident and the end of the episode.
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Missy2
Member
07-31-2001
| Monday, November 25, 2013 - 8:17 am
Wow horrific!! Great episode. Can't we all just get along??? lol
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Monday, November 25, 2013 - 10:22 am
I had a thought about the rats and Bob. I think they said Bob was new to the group not long before the start of the season (the first supply run we see is the first run he went on). We also know Bob's an army medic, and a lot of Martinez's people were army... could it be that Bob was Woodbury and then was with Martinez's group, so the Governor knew him and trusted him to infiltrate the prison and use the rats? He doesn't have to bribe him with anything (like we were discussing), all he has to do is persuade him of the very real dangerous situation they have in their camp, compared to the safety of the fenced prison.
So the more I think about it the more I think we're meant to think the Governor's been thinking about the prison for days, not just this last day we've seen him watching. The "we can find a better place if we're willing to fight for it," well he had to know the prison was still there and our gang were still in it, they could have left months ago or the prison could have been overrun with walkers for all the Governor knew, so he had to have done some reconnaissance work.
I think the Governor has to be behind Bob and the rats and has been thinking about the prison probably for much of the couple(?) of months he and the girls have been with Martinez's group.
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Scout
Member
01-19-2005
| Monday, November 25, 2013 - 1:27 pm
I wondered if the little girl might have been the one leaving the rats for the walkers to eat? She seemed to believe there was still something human about them and to sympathize with them.
It seemed a bit far-fetched that the small group( that the governor's scouting party came across) wouldn't have been able to hear the RV group. Or that Michonne wouldn't have run across either or both of the groups. But the timeline is confusing so maybe she was back before either group ended up where they did.
Kitt - I agree - Underwater walker Pete (love that name btw) was very scary. So was the quicksand gang. Why did the Governor give up so easily and just go back? Surely, if he was that worried he could have gone back and found another road out that wasn't blocked.
I was not a fan of the governor story last season, but so far it's been better. But two whole episodes with just them and none of our usual gang was too much.
Show - please don't kill off any of my favorite characters like I think you are going to do.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Monday, November 25, 2013 - 2:21 pm
Kitt, I fell asleep during Talking Dead, so I'll have to re-watch tonight.
Not surprised that the Gov hasn't changed his spots, as I noted before. Something really wrong with that guy.
I'm still not sure about the rats. Seems like the Gov wouldn't sic rats on the place if it he wanted it for himself.
I wondered about the quick sand group also. There were a lot of unanswered questions in this epi, like why did the Gov kill Martinez, when Martinez was offering to power share with him? He says repeatedly "I don't want it," but by killing Martinez isn't he guaranteeing he'll get the power?
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Monday, November 25, 2013 - 2:36 pm
Lizzie could have been feeding them rats, but it did seem in the clips as it the rats were offered at head height (possibly too high up for her) and also why (storywise) haven't they made that clear if that's the case? It seems (again, just storywise) that it's something waiting to be discovered.
Maybe Michonne did run across the camps but thought if they were okay, and she didn't recognise anyone, that maybe they were best left alone. I don't know if they missed some car travel time though, I mean the two (new) camps seemed only a few 100m apart but if that was the case why wouldn't they have found them, and the decapitation family, before? I think they might have gone somewhere in a car, they just didn't show us the car bit of the journey. So if things were further out it might explain how Michonne or the prison people didn't know of them. (Also remember in the seven months between seasons two and three our gang, pregnant Lori in tow, didn't even find the prison when it was shown as basically just behind the trees in the season two finale!)
I think the rats (if from the Governor) were to force out the main fighters in the prison as they'd be the ones to deal with a walker invasion. They might not care if some of the "non important" people were inside, but they need to get rid of Rick, Michonne, Darryl, Glen, and they know they'd come out to fight and would be at risk.
And I think the Governor killed Martinez because Martinez was the only one who knew who the Governor was. If the Governor started leading and Martinez didn't agree with what he was doing, there's always a chance that Martinez would spoil everything by telling the group what happened, and particularly how he massacred his own people. No idea about the "I don't want it" though, he clearly did want it.
Show - please don't kill off any of my favorite characters like I think you are going to do.
I think there will be tears before bed time  .
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Egbok
Member
07-13-2000
| Monday, November 25, 2013 - 2:38 pm
I enjoyed last night's show but I did get a bit confused with all the timeline changes.
Kitt, your posts have helped me to put it all together a bit more. I also liked your "Underwater-Walking-Pete" reference too, you made me giggle on that one!
I'm really hoping to see Carol again.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Monday, November 25, 2013 - 3:11 pm
I really don't think the Gov killed Martinez because Martinez knew who he was.
Something snapped in him when Martinez asked him to help lead the group. There was a change in demeanor and then he just went psycho. So it had to have something to do with that offer, which is why he kept chanting "I don't want it... I don't want it..."
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Monday, November 25, 2013 - 4:24 pm
Thanks Egbok, I go on about it a lot, so it's good to know some of it is useful!
Karuuna, I think he'd been planning getting Martinez, or at least somebody, up on the RV roof and in a vulnerable position for a while. He'd let that dripping hole in the roof stay for a long time (again though, hard to know what the time span is, but we saw it unfixed on more than one occasion) as if he knew he could use it for an evil plan. I think he started processing pretty much as soon as he saw Martinez back at the walker pit... it might have been that instant when he decided to put it into action but he'd been prepared for a while.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Monday, November 25, 2013 - 4:41 pm
Kitt, interesting, that's not how I saw the dripping hole scenario. Remember he tried to leave after he saw the dripping hole and before he started killing people. I saw it as him seeing that the camp was faulty, not sufficient for his new "family." Just like seeing Martinez' weakness in not killing that other camp and stealing their supplies. Then when Martinez egged him about not having fixed it, it was another bullet in the case against Martinez. When he asked Martinez if he could keep the place safe, Martinez gave a wishy washy response, further making him think Martinez was not good enough for his family. And then Martinez asked him to help, it was the last straw and he snapped.
I think he saw Martinez and earlier, Peter, as stand ins for the "moral" Rick, and the Gov doesn't think morals can't get it done in this new world. So the more he saw Martinez as weak (and as having morals - some things he wouldn't do), the more he thought he would have to take over; even though at some level he didn't want the responsibility.
So I don't think he was using the hole to preplan someone's murder. He was struggling with people that reminded him of Rick (and Rick's morals) and that were too weak to protect his new family. That was the thing that made him snap.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Monday, November 25, 2013 - 4:50 pm
Yeah, definitely possible. His "I don't want to" was probably followed in this mind by "but there's no other way but to do it myself."
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Jasper
Moderator
09-14-2000
| Monday, November 25, 2013 - 8:35 pm
I saw that scene as totally different. I don't think that was the Gov's trailer I think Martinez took him to his RV. I don't recall their RV being as isolated as that one by the pit was. The Gov would not have wanted his family living near the pit. jmo
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Monday, November 25, 2013 - 8:51 pm
Jasper that could be correct. I'm not sure. I just remember right before that, Gov had gotten out the duct tape to fix the hole, so I assumed it was the same trailer. That's an interesting view.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Tuesday, November 26, 2013 - 12:08 pm
Yeah, gotta watch this episode again!
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Jasper
Moderator
09-14-2000
| Tuesday, November 26, 2013 - 12:10 pm
I have all the eps set to record and re watch on Sunday without interruptions!! If I remember I'll pay attention to the RVs. The one they golfed on seemed to be all by itself, no picnic table washing line etc. I hate that my Sunday night shows are over after next week!
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Sunday, December 01, 2013 - 9:16 pm
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