| Author |
Message |
Sunshyne4u
Member
06-16-2003
| Sunday, March 04, 2012 - 11:58 pm 
EXCUSE ME, but if you have a spoiler, contact a mod or something. THIS isnt fair.
there is a thread for questions and an area for Tech issues.
IF certain people keep this up about spoilers, I guess i'll have to stop coming here too.
OMG
I WAS going to talk about the show tonight but i'm so PO'd I'm out.
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Kitt
Member
09-06-2000
| Monday, March 05, 2012 - 12:25 am
I think Willsfan was just being extra polite and cautious with the spoiler tag for people who hadn't watched tonight's show yet. Everything she talked about was in tonight's show. There haven't been any actual spoilers posted here at all.
Someone a while back, possibly Sanfran, mentioned Chris Hardwick's bobbing adam's apple on Talking Dead. I'd forgotten about it then suddenly saw it tonight and was fixated by it!
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Monday, March 05, 2012 - 1:12 am
"In a real life zombie world a lot of kids would be like Carl."
I'd like to see them deal with a whole gang of murderous child psychos who have banded together and have learned to survive the zombie apocalypse without all those pesky adults! Yikes!
"Someone a while back, possibly Sanfran, mentioned Chris Hardwick's bobbing adam's apple on Talking Dead. I'd forgotten about it then suddenly saw it tonight and was fixated by it!"
Yep, t'was I who made that observation! Isn't it surreal? Like it has a mind of its own.... (Btw, I think Hardwick made a terrible walker. You could clearly see how much fun he was having even when he was really trying to be scary! I'm glad he had such a blast with it, but he shouldn't quit his day job.  )
It's after midnight here in SF which means this episode finished its first airing over 5 hours ago for anyone with Comcast cable. We get both the east coast and the west cast feeds. The Walking Dead was done airing by 7pm PST, so anything posted here after that wouldn't be considered a spoiler.
As I understand it, once the show has actually aired on television we are free to talk all about it without worrying about spoilerisms.
I just try to remember never to enter a thread here until after I've watched the episode.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Monday, March 05, 2012 - 9:17 am
EXCUSE ME, but if you have a spoiler, contact a mod or something. THIS isnt fair.
This was not a 'spoiler' per TVCH rules, all posts were about shows that already aired - and those are not considered spoilers here. Only information about *future* shows are spoilers.
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Kitt
Member
09-06-2000
| Monday, March 05, 2012 - 11:10 am
It's bizarre Sanfran, I've never noticed anyone having one that bobbed like that! I agree he made a terrible walker, he was just too jolly. Terrible walker, sweet person!
Season 1 when they had those young men looking after a senior center - you can imagine that it'd be possible that there is a group of kids out there like that, who were isolated at some scared straight camp or something when everything went bad. Might not have the planning skills and discipline to survive though. Or guns.
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Hummingbird
Member
08-21-2002
| Monday, March 05, 2012 - 2:08 pm
Didn't see it coming until Dale walked off by himself. I was thinking the swamp walker had followed Carl onto the farm, staggered into the barn and ate Randall thereby solving the problem of what to do with him. I like that the writers surprise us and we can't guess what will happen.
Why in the world didn't Carl alert everyone when he spotted a walker. He's turning into a little monster.
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Lostfan
Member
03-10-2010
| Monday, March 05, 2012 - 8:11 pm
Does anyone know why the little brat Carl let that zombie loose?
I was hoping when the zombie got him he got what he deserved- LOL darn, wish it would have been the kid instead of Dale
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Kitt
Member
09-06-2000
| Monday, March 05, 2012 - 9:05 pm
I think he just wasn't able to shoot straight enough to shoot it in the head (does he even know how to take a gun off safety?) and then was too scared when it pulled itself out of the mud and came for him. And I suppose too embarrassed to tell others there was a walker nearby if he couldn't deal with it himself?? Or too stupid to realise the danger.
It would have been funny if it had got Randall, although I'm kind of curious about where they're going with Randall, I'm convinced he's going to do something very bad when he gets the chance.
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Whrlwnd
Member
10-13-2006
| Tuesday, March 06, 2012 - 8:04 am
I thought this was a sad episode..from beginning to tragic end.  It haunted me all night, even during my sleep.
The Randall situation. I couldn't believe that not a single person (besides Dale) was against killing Randall for no reason. I understand that they're afraid, but I hate for them to become like that. I'm hoping that what happened to Dale will snap most of them out of this 'desensitized mode' that losing Sophia seems to have put them in.
I do understand that they are afraid. Heck, even I am unsure about Randall. Well, I am now...I wasn't at first. My first impression was that after saving him from sure death by zombie (when his buddy left him), and bringing him back to their camp, and then doctoring his wound they would've had his gratitude, and even if he wanted to go back to his group, I bet he wouldn't have sold them out. BUT NOW, after this last episode, the beating & torture, and coming 'this close' to killing him in cold blood I'm afraid they've most likely lost him. I know they would've lost me after all that.
As though that wasn't emotionally heavy enough, there's also The Carl Situation. It wasn't so much Carl's behavior that bothered me, as it was the look on his face. It wasn't him sneaking into the barn even though he was told not to, it was the way he was watching Randall. Like he was some insect...Oh wait! I think I just got it...It was just like the zombie!
And then there is the on-going Shane situation. The whole episode I kept thinking, here they are planning to kill Randall, because of what he might do, and there's the Caveman (that's what he seems like to me) stomping around and he's everything they're afraid that Randall might be. That's who they need to kill, and I won't shed a tear. Shane is dangerous, he can't be trusted, he's already lost his humanity, he's trying to poison the group against Rick, he's a bad influence to have around Carl. He murdered Otis, he almost raped Lori. Shane is a lost cause.
B-t-w...I'm thinking that Shane isn't going to be happy that they didn't kill Randall, and I'm wondering if he doesn't set Randall up, just to get his way.
Finally there was the tragic end, the death of Dale. As I said at the beginning...I hope that some good will come from this sad loss. Hopefully, they'll come back to their senses, and maybe Dale's death will guilt Carl back on the right path.
I'm sorry that this soliloquy is so long-winded. Believe it or not, I did whittle it down quite a bit. 
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Tuesday, March 06, 2012 - 2:04 pm
Rick should've shot Randall dead in the barn after escorting Carl elsewhere.
It wouldn't be executing him for what he "might" do, it would be for what he "did" do.
Randall was part of a gang that attacked Rick, Glenn, and Herschel even after Rick explained through the door that those two guys had drawn their guns first. Those guys outside would have known their pals well enough to know that was likely true.
Randall only fell off that roof onto the gate because he was flanking Rick and the guys in the bar and he was out to shoot them just like the rest of his pals.
Randall admitted to being the lookout when he and his pals came upon the camp with a man and his two young daughters. He said his pals raped the man's two teen daughters while making the father watch. Randall was still guilty of that crime because he participated as a lookout and he would have been held just as responsible as his pals in a world without a zombie apocalypse.
Personally, I don't believe Randall was only the lookout at all...I think he actively participated in the rapes. When Randall told that story and blamed the men he was with, he claimed he had nothing to do with the rapes, but then at one point he said "And they didn't even kill them!" That sounded to me like, in his mind, killing them was the expected thing to do.
Don't forget Randall's personality change when he was tied up on the ground and the walker woman was coming after him. He was able to free himself and kill the walker, but when he got free of the ropes, he suddenly changed from a scared whiny boy to an angry aggressive stabber. As the female zombie crawled towards him (after he stomped on her arm and broke it) he started posturing and sort of weaving back and forth like boxer in the ring and he said, and I quote, "C'mon, b***, let's see what you got." Then he stabbed her in the head SIX times. He enjoyed that!
This guy is SCARY. He has already tried to kill Rick, Glenn, and Hershel, he participated in a rape of very young teen girls while making their father watch and he actually seemed to have fun during his confrontation with the female walker after he cut himself free from the ropes.
I say kill him now....the world would be a better place with one less psychopath!
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Tuesday, March 06, 2012 - 2:15 pm
Just anted to add this screen shot I got from last week's show (Feb 26). This is the moment when he was saying "C'mon, b***, let's see what you got."
He was SMILING! I've never seen Rick or Shane or anyone else smile while fighting with a walker, but he was obviously enjoying it!
Mods, I got this photo from an episode that aired on TV (not from the internet), so I have no link to a source.
I hope that's okay, but if not, feel free to just delete this post.
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Kitt
Member
09-06-2000
| Tuesday, March 06, 2012 - 6:19 pm
Yes, there's definitely a little bit that's off in his head. He was part of the group who were attacking Rick, Glenn and Herschel in the bar (and he was even holding a rifle) but he didn't actually hurt them. That's my issue, not that he's not a bad guy (he looks more like a bad guy every episode) but that what they have actual evidence of him doing is not something that deserves a death penalty. If they could lock him up in a prison that would be one thing, and in zombie world that's not even possible, but killing him is too much for my delicate mind ;).
And now like Whrlwnd says, if he wasn't murderous before, he certainly will be now, so I just don't know what they should do. I just couldn't get over the moral issues of killing him if it were me out there. And I don't think I'd ever feel the same about Rick if he did it.
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Hummingbird
Member
08-21-2002
| Tuesday, March 06, 2012 - 7:09 pm
I also thought the,"They didn't even kill them" remark was telling. When Randall was trying to talk Carl into unchaining him, he told Carl that there were lots of supplies back at his camp and that he would take them there. He is planning to go back and bring the gang back with him if he escapes. I don't know what they are going to do with Randall. I wanted the zombie to eat him. Rick should have never brought him to the camp.
T Dog was certainly beating the stuffing out of a man who couldn't fight back. I don't know how Randall lived through that beating.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Tuesday, March 06, 2012 - 8:44 pm
"That's my issue, not that he's not a bad guy (he looks more like a bad guy every episode) but that what they have actual evidence of him doing is not something that deserves a death penalty."
I see....you're looking at it from the point of view of Rick and his group. I was looking at it from the point of view of a viewer!
They are on the precipice of either retaining their "humanity" or become savage. I think they need a balance now. They need to trust their instincts, not their social rules because civilized society is gone...there is no justice system where the defense and the prosecution play by the same rules. In this world, it's all about survival and who is the strongest.
There must be a balance between the two.
Dale kept saying they need to hang onto their "humanity", but I think that's a misnomer - the history of humanity is full of murder and destruction and greed and humans have always killed and maimed and stolen and sought power.
It is human nature to survive and sometimes by any means necessary. I think of it more like this - they are trying to hang onto their "civilized nature", not their "humanity". A civilized nature allows them to be more productive and supportive in a society, but society is gone at this point. I think they need to start looking at how to survive in zombie hell.
I don't want them to just start killing everyone they run across willy nilly, but I do think they need to step back and take a good look and understand that it's not just human vs walkers....it's humans vs walkers AND vs other humans who are not so willing to play nice or be fair. The two guys that Rick shot in the bar were human but they were as dangerous as any walker....well, except that they couldn't turn you into a walker*. But they could still turn you into dead.
It might just come down to giving the benefit of the doubt or using their instinct and/or violence to survive. None of these people are going to end up as the same nice, civilized people they were before this all started. They're all beginning to understand Shane's point of view.
Of course, I do think Shane has gone too far. There is a line and I think Shane has crossed it...but I also think Rick hasn't gotten close enough to it.
-----
*Question - Do we know for sure whether a walker has to bite a human to turn a person into a walker or does everyone that dies from anything (except maybe a severe head wound or beheading) automatically become a walker?
Previous zombie movie writers usually made it so that anyone who dies becomes a zombie - all the George Romero films, for example. They were digging themselves out of their own graves after having been buried for weeks months or years.....but I just can't remember if anyone in The Walking Dead has ever been shown dying from natural causes or from an accident that didn't involve a head wound.
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Kitt
Member
09-06-2000
| Tuesday, March 06, 2012 - 10:24 pm
Yeah, I agree they have to completely rethink their view of what life will be and what is acceptable or what they're willing to do to survive. It's just so hard to imagine living like that. I'd cower in a corner.
*Question - Do we know for sure whether a walker has to bite a human to turn a person into a walker or does everyone that dies from anything (except maybe a severe head wound or beheading) automatically become a walker?
We don't know for sure. I think they were trying to tell us something relating to that when they pointed out the two zombiefied guards at the school, the ones without any bites on them. And I was thinking about the anomaly where Shane said recently that there were only two weeks between the first strange stories on the news and zombies everywhere, whereas Jenner at the CDC said the "virus" went global 63 days before they met him (so about 40 days before Shane said they even knew anything about zombies). I think maybe the virus and becoming a zombie are two separate things, and that just about everyone now has the virus, and getting bitten by a walker just activates it somehow, or even just dying activates it somehow.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Tuesday, March 06, 2012 - 10:49 pm
"I think maybe the virus and becoming a zombie are two separate things, and that just about everyone now has the virus, and getting bitten by a walker just activates it somehow, or even just dying activates it somehow."
Excellent theory!
That's similar to what happened on Vampire Diaries. If I recall, there was a hurt girl in the hospital and a vampire good guy came in and healed her with his blood. Then later that night a vampire bad guy came in and killed her (broke her neck? All the details are very vague...). Anyhow, she still had vamp blood in her veins when she was killed so she came back...with fangs.
A agree, that time frame was way too fast for individual bites from walkers to be the cause of it's spreading. It would've taken a lot longer than that for billions of people across the globe to just happen to come across roaming dead folks and get close enough to get themselves bitten.
Anyhow, thanks for letting me know that "walker fact" wasn't yet settled. I keep forgetting that for some reason.
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Hummingbird
Member
08-21-2002
| Wednesday, March 07, 2012 - 5:57 pm
Questions
How do you explain all the corpses in the cars on the highway last season. They weren't zombies - just dead. Why the mass sudden death on the freeway?
Do the zombies ever get full? Some predators are not dangerous if they have just fed. Maybe they are running out of humans to eat or maybe they are just plain insatiable.
Does the flesh eventually rot away, leaving hungry skeletons?
Enquiring minds want to know!
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Wednesday, March 07, 2012 - 8:45 pm
Maybe the "walker virus" killed a lot of people outright, but left the rest infected (but now they're "carriers") but not showing any symptoms until bitten, then the virus is activated...as Kitt hypothesized,.
(This is still unclear and as far as I know hasn't been explained, so we're just guessing and theorizing! Btw, in all of George Romera's zombie films, they never learned how or why it started....one day they woke up and suddenly the dead started eating the living!)
I think the walkers are running on the basic instinct to feed, but quite possibly the hunger is just always there.
I think if the flesh rots away, the brain rots away, too and then the brain should die. I figure having a putrid, liquidy brain would kill them, just as well as a knife in the brain.
One would think that since civilization is in chaos, there probably aren't many scientists left (if any at all) who have the proper training and/or equipment and supplies to research this. As we know from last season, Rick's group reached the CDC (the Center for Disease Control - the premiere lab for disease control in the US) but there were no answers or cures found there and then it was destroyed.
I get the impression the viewers are meant to remain in the dark just like the characters are. That way, we can relate to their actions more. Not knowing how or why this is happening must be a driving force in how there're behaving. They have no idea if the rest of the world is dead or if the military will swoop in any minute and take them off to safety somewhere. They don't know the cause so they don't know whether they should feel hopeless or hopeful. I think that uncertainty adds another layer to those characters.
Remember - this is just theory....
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Kitt
Member
09-06-2000
| Wednesday, March 07, 2012 - 10:50 pm
Good observation, that if the brain rots then it's much the same as if the brain is killed in some other way. I think they have said that the newer walkers are more spritely than the older walkers, so I can kind of imagine them gradually just being unable to move and rotting away to skeletons.
Actually wasn't there something about the bones getting squishy?? I might be thinking about some other corpse on a CSI show though.
I agree, I suspect they're purposely keeping us in the dark so we have the same information and confusion/fear that the gang have.
I hadn't thought about the mass death on the highway, but looking back it does seem like there were too many people who were "ordinary dead" in cars. In one of those flashback scenes they showed the main group (the ones we first met who lived on that hill outside Atlanta) all stuck in a traffic jam, presumably somewhere in that Atlanta area. It's possible the freeways were jammed up for miles and miles, with everybody thinking they were safer leaving, and some chose to stick it out in their cars, like some people have to do when snow closes roads and they're stranded. Maybe they just starved or overheated or dehydrated.
Or.... maybe there was a pile up and they had minor injuries that killed them because no one could evacuate them to hospitals. Like if their legs were trapped or they were injured so they couldn't walk, or couldn't walk well enough to risk it on the roads with walkers. When they ran out of food or drink they'd starve in their cars.
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Sunshyne4u
Member
06-16-2003
| Thursday, March 08, 2012 - 11:26 am
it does seem like there were too many people who were "ordinary dead" in cars.
lots of guns in US. in a case like this, lots of those people would have been suicides/killing their family before being overtaken by the zombies.
It also would explain why only a very few of the bodies in the cars were actually zombified. If one family member started to turn, i can see the others doing themselves in... thus trapping the undead in the car.
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Hummingbird
Member
08-21-2002
| Thursday, March 08, 2012 - 3:53 pm
Another strange thing to consider - zombies submerged in water (wells)grow gills. What other survival mechanisms do they possess?
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Thursday, March 08, 2012 - 7:47 pm
"Another strange thing to consider - zombies submerged in water (wells)grow gills."
What are you referring to? It sounds like a totally different story/premise than The Walking Dead.
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Kitt
Member
09-06-2000
| Thursday, March 08, 2012 - 7:59 pm
That bloated walker they pulled out of the well, when they dragged him up he had grown gills. I'd forgotten it as soon as the show was over, but Hummingbird is right, he did.
Freaky.
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Kitt
Member
09-06-2000
| Thursday, March 08, 2012 - 8:04 pm
Wait... walkers don't even breathe, why would they develop gills, even if the virus was advanced enough that it could cause cell mutation?
Maybe it was a make up person's joke, and it was meant to just be skin folds??!
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Kitt
Member
09-06-2000
| Thursday, March 08, 2012 - 8:22 pm
I can't see the gills in the scenes on youtube. Maybe it was something that looked like gills but wasn't. I do remember thinking it was gills at the time though.
Here's a (disgusting) youtube about the making of the well scenes. Just for fun ;)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IoJW1hs967I
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