| Author |
Message |
Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Tuesday, May 17, 2011 - 10:00 pm 
Krakaur is meticulous.. sometimes he does have an axe to grind that irritates me but not in this book.
I was sorry they couldn't finance that group of houses.
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Babyjaxmom
Member
10-20-2002
| Wednesday, May 18, 2011 - 7:17 am
I'm in the middle of "Under the Banner of Heaven," but had to take a break for a while (went back to the 3rd Game of Thrones). It's really intense.
I hear what you're sayin', TDeb. I can see the advantages of having sister wives to help raise your kids and be a support system. You never have to worry about childcare or having dinner ready when you get home. It's the sharing the hubby thing that icks me out. Don't think I could do it, but they seem to be fine with it. I don't see that they're hurting anyone. But I wouldn't call their lifestyle "upper middle class," just middle. So they take a couple of trips (I'm sure financed by TLC), but their house is not luxurious, just big.
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Roxip
Member
01-29-2004
| Wednesday, May 18, 2011 - 10:01 am
I understand your points about this situation being a positive one for those involved, but I believe the purpose of the law is to prevent the "bad" type of marriages that I assume are outlined in the books you have referenced. Unfortunately the law is the law. In some ways it is akin to people who cross the border...most of them are hard-working people who only want to make a better life for their families...but then there is that criminal element, so the law is you can't cross the border and live here without proper documentation. Illegal is illegal in the eyes of the law. Polygamy is illegal in the eyes of the law.
Not saying that I want the Browns prosecuted. I don't. I think for the most part they are interesting people (except for Kody...makes you wonder what attracts these interesting women to him) who are raising good kids and seem to be pretty well grounded.
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Tntitanfan
Member
08-03-2001
| Wednesday, May 18, 2011 - 12:56 pm
I know the young men go out on "mission trips" for a couple of years, but then what? If the older men want to get rid of them so they can have the young, nubile gals, who do the young men marry? Are they meant to marry outside the faith? That seems counter-productive to keeping the faith pure and strong.
Perhaps that will be covered in "Under . . . Heaven" that I am currently reading. It wasn't dealt with in the first two books, but both of those were memoirs, rather than a researched acount.
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Babyjaxmom
Member
10-20-2002
| Thursday, May 19, 2011 - 7:12 am
Sometimes you have to take into account the "intent" of the law. Even the State of Utah has said they won't prosecute polygamists if there's no evidence of abuse or welfare fraud. What's the point? They'd have to put too many people in jail! There are several polygamous cults in Utah, Nevada and Colorado.
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Tntitanfan
Member
08-03-2001
| Thursday, May 19, 2011 - 8:45 am
Still waiting for enlightenment re young men and marriage -
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Babyjaxmom
Member
10-20-2002
| Thursday, May 19, 2011 - 9:22 am
Tntitanfan, in some of the polygamous communities, the young men are kicked out so the old men don't have to compete with them. There's a whole culture of abandoned boys in Utah who've been expelled from the cults. (Remember we're not talking about mainstream Mormonism here.) It's a real problem in Utah, cause the boys are kicked out with no place to go and often fall into prostitution and other illegal activities just to survive. I've heard of programs in Utah whose whole purpose is to help these "Lost Boys." It's very sad.
The church the Browns belong to doesn't seem to be that type, because they still have their boys. Also in the more fundamentalist groups, the women have to wear old fashioned prairie type dresses, are not allowed to cut their hair and are very subjugated to the men. It's really sad.
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Tntitanfan
Member
08-03-2001
| Thursday, May 19, 2011 - 1:20 pm
What a tragedy! I get more horrified chapter by chapter as I am reading "Under the Banner of Heaven" -
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Babyjaxmom
Member
10-20-2002
| Thursday, May 19, 2011 - 4:38 pm
That's why I had to take a break from it. Too intense! Went back to Game of Thrones where people are just killing each other over the throne! 
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Goddessatlaw
Member
07-19-2002
| Friday, May 20, 2011 - 5:34 pm
Finally ordered "Under the Banner of Heaven." I'm prepared to be appalled.
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Tntitanfan
Member
08-03-2001
| Friday, May 20, 2011 - 8:15 pm
GAL - Have you read "Shattered Dreams?" If "Banner" doesn't appal you sufficiently, try that one!
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Babyjaxmom
Member
10-20-2002
| Saturday, May 21, 2011 - 9:09 am
This is older, but it's still cute. Enjoy!
Ellen has Sister Wives on her show, with a clip of the new season:
http://theclicker.today.com/_news/2011/03/10/6236279-ellen-degeneres-joins-sister-wives
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Babyjaxmom
Member
10-20-2002
| Saturday, May 21, 2011 - 9:12 am
Another article I was reading on MSN Today web site says that some of the neighbors in the Brown's new Las Vegas neighborhood are upset and wish they would leave. I'll tell you, if those kids are as nice and well-behaved as they seem on TV, I'd welcome them in our neighborhood! The kids we have now are so mean to my son that he doesn't play outside anymore, including the homeschooled Christian kids who are always in the street with no parents watching them. I'd love to have a family like the Browns around here!
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Goddessatlaw
Member
07-19-2002
| Saturday, May 21, 2011 - 10:20 am
Yup I read Shattered Drams, Tnt - it was depressing as hell.
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Babyjaxmom
Member
10-20-2002
| Saturday, May 21, 2011 - 2:17 pm
I read "Shattered Dreams," too. It was horrifying, depressing and fascinating all at once!
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Saturday, May 21, 2011 - 11:47 pm
Under the Banner covers many of the issues.
The lost boys are so sad.. partly because they often don't have much of an education.. well it is a little bit like the Amish kids who may decide during Rumspringa that they don't want to be Amish but in the meantime they haven't been educated and haven't been out in the world so the transition is painful. But with the mormom cults it is worse because the boys don't have the choice to return.
But yes it is important to note that the Browns aren't in a Mormon cult and also not mainstream LDS either. But the fundamentalist cults are scary.. actually more like the Roman Grant fundamentalist cult depicted on Big Love..
Under the Banner is certainly an eye opener.
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Babyjaxmom
Member
10-20-2002
| Sunday, May 22, 2011 - 8:14 am
The other thing I've always found heartbreaking about the "Lost Boys" is that their mothers usually just stand by and allow them to be cast out. I know they don't have much choice in the matter, but I can't imagine doing that to my sweet boy! It would truly break my heart.
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Kellirippa
Member
07-10-2002
| Sunday, May 22, 2011 - 8:25 pm
Am I missing something here, why all the urgency and secrecy surrounding the move to Nevada, and yet they are having these discussions on a television show? The children were not allowed to tell their friends where they are moving, yet Cody is discussing it with a camera?
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Sunday, May 22, 2011 - 9:25 pm
That was months ago.. not real time.
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Kellirippa
Member
07-10-2002
| Sunday, May 22, 2011 - 9:46 pm
well, I understand that, but why so secretive at the time when he knew it would eventually be televised anyway? Did he think someone would stop them from moving if the big secret got out?
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Monday, May 23, 2011 - 12:12 am
I think that was it.. not that he seems rational about it.. like why didn't they get an attorney?
Why don't they check tires before they leave on a trip?
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Seabreeze
Member
09-05-2004
| Monday, May 23, 2011 - 12:36 am
I think he did not check the tires because he was overwhelmed with all they had to do in that weekend. Personally, I think it was kinda crazy to plan to move that whole family when they did not have housing...fortunately, they got it at the last minute.
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Kellirippa
Member
07-10-2002
| Monday, May 23, 2011 - 12:43 am
Are they running on bald tires on every vehicle they own?
So, who exactly were they running away from? The district attorney, TMZ or angry villagers with pitch forks?
If publicly coming out of the polygamist closet has caused so much turmoil and despair for these people that they need to literally go on the run, then maybe they should stay away from Merideth Viara, Diane Sawyer, Ellen and Oprah and maybe consider pulling the plug on the TV show..
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Lakecat
Member
10-01-2006
| Monday, May 23, 2011 - 5:12 am
My question is who in the world would rent their house to 21 ppl,if only for a month. I guess they asked for a hefty deposit and got it from the producers.
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Watching2
Member
07-07-2001
| Monday, May 23, 2011 - 9:56 am
Perhaps they forgot to mention that they had a "bunch of kids." LOL I don't understand all the secrecy since if it is a problem in all states, their problems will just follow them to their new homes. I guess the exception would be if that state doesn't feel like it's worth it to pursue them. I seriously cannot understand how they thought they could pack up every-one's belongings in such a short time. I realize they left a lot behind, but who is going to go back there to clean up the rest? Aren't they going to sell those places or did they just ditch them?
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