| Author |
Message |
Strategist
Member
07-01-2014
| Friday, September 04, 2020 - 8:05 pm 
Meggieprice, you are so fortunate to have had such open-minded parents and to have been educated about the challenges of black people at such an early age. I wish that more of us had that opportunity!
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Jadajean
Member
03-23-2008
| Friday, September 04, 2020 - 8:28 pm
Strategist - thank you for understanding. I don’t let other’s preconceived perceptions of me stop me from marching to my own drum. I know I’m fortunate to have an education, and great career. That does not negate what I have witnessed Snd experienced in this lifetime. I just choose yo keep it moving.
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Keldogg
Member
08-12-2005
| Friday, September 04, 2020 - 10:12 pm
I am just gonna say this and then I am bowing out of this conversation because it is not going to end well.
It is not the responsibility of black people to educate white people about systemic racism.
It is not the responsibilty of black people to point out racism to you.
It is not the responsibility of black people to pat you on the back because you have black friends.
It is white people who have the problem and its up to white people to fix themselves.
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Govols
Member
07-18-2005
| Friday, September 04, 2020 - 10:30 pm
Mods, could you do me a favor?
Please remove the word "The" that I placed in front of blacks twice in my post at 6:53.
I would appreciate it as I had no idea that would be offensive to anyone.
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Meggieprice
Member
07-09-2001
| Friday, September 04, 2020 - 11:08 pm
Strategist I do feel lucky! I went to the Chicago Convention in 68 with my Dad and he gave a speech arguing for a replacement delegation balanced fairly for race and sex for a state (cant remember which one!) and Mayor Daly turned his microphone off ....memories! My Dad died last year and I think so often about what he would be thinking now. When I visited him I would chide him for watching MSNBC and CNN so much and right now I do it too- for him.
My Mom died in 2009 and before she died she said repeatedly she was glad she had lived long enough to see an African American become president.
As a white person of privilege I am grateful to have the underpinnings of understanding they gave me to help me learn and grow now.
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Gusmonster
Member
06-01-2005
| Saturday, September 05, 2020 - 1:09 am
My history with the issue of racism has been varied. I grew up in NH which had almost NO diversity when I was a child, and not much now really. Many of my family were racist, overtly so, and I heard terrible things about black people, all people who were different really but especially black people. When I was ten or eleven a black family moved into my neighborhood and I became friends with the daughter my age and had to do battle with my own family about it. Heck, some of them didn't come to my wedding later on because she was one of my bridesmaids. I knew she wasn't what they had told me that black people were and at that time I would have sworn up and down that I didn't have a racist bone in my body.
After high school I went into the Navy and my first duty station was in D.C. which is 85% black. I was terrified of living there and found that all the old things I had heard from my family were still alive and well in my own mind. What I was able to fight against for an individual black friend didn't go very far for black people as a larger group. I had to ask myself a whole lot of hard, honest questions and I didn't like myself for the answers. I agree with Keldogg that it is not the responsibility of black people to educate white people about racism but I thank God for my friend back home because it was she who helped me sort myself out. But even then I didn't see it as a societal problem, I thought my family had just screwed me up and it was just my problem to fix in myself. I was very young then and very uniformed about the world around me.
Then I was stationed at San Diego and became friends with a black man. We decided to grab a bite and go bowling on base. FOUR separate white man interrupted our meal, uninvited, to inform me that they didn't like seeing a white girl with a black man, that I should be ashamed of myself or I should know better. Not one said a word to him. I was livid and kept telling them to to mind their own business, only not so nicely. Well, we ate up quick and got out of there but he took me back to my barracks instead of going bowling. Then I was mad at him. Are you really going to let this happen? You're just going to give in to these buttholes? His answer shut me up in a hurry. He said " I am the one who's going to pay for this. You might never get another date on this base but I could die tonight" Reality. Awful, terrifying reality. That a black man had to fear for his life for simply taking a white girl out for a burger.
I soon left the service and moved back home where racism just isn't really talked about much because it was still almost exclusively white. And the biggest hater in my family had moved out of state so whatever the reason, maybe they were tired of arguing with me, maybe as the issue was beginning to be debated more publicly they became ashamed of their own views, maybe because they lost their leader, I don't know, but whatever was still there had gone underground. Anyway I stopped worrying about it for years.
I remember thinking when Obama became president " Good, there's an end to Racism " I really did. Just like that. It's all over. Done. Easy peasy. At that time I had just started to get invested in politics and after reading an Obama article I dropped down to the comments section. Reality. Awful, terrifying reality.
Now the issue is really out there and people, of all races and backgrounds, are fighting together to end it once and for all but I fear. Even in myself I fear. The other day I asked my old friend if I was a racist. She said 'No, you aren't, but keep checking yourself " The other day I refused to go to a local protest with my old friend because I am scared of Covid. The other day I gave $100 to BLM. The other day I watched a video of a black man arguing with the police while being arrested and said " Just get on your knees, bud, and put your hands behind your back" I believe, truly believe, my thought there was for his safety if he didn't do what he was told - but I'm going to keep checking myself.
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Sincebb1
Member
08-22-2005
| Saturday, September 05, 2020 - 2:24 am
Does anyone remember the show Oprah Winfrey did in 1992? It was a social experiment... she divided her audience in to 2 groups according to eye color. Blue and Brown. Those with brown eyes were given preferential treatment. They got to cut in line were given refreshments. Blue eyes had to put on green collars and waited for a long time in line. Staff were extra polite to brown eyed people and not so much to blue eyed. The last straw was her guest...who was in on everything...explaining that studies showed that brown eyed people were smarter than blue eyed.
I remember the show very distinctly.
Because I grew up overseas, I always went to an international school wherever we were. I have been around every ethnicity and nationality since I was 4... I have another observation....that might be just my own...breathing things that are alike tend to be most comfortable with like breathing things. So lions hang out with lions, tigers with tigers etc. If the lions and tigers are raised together they tend to get along. So in my school...if there were 2 Australians or French or South Africans...they usually hung out together, even thought as a group we all enjoyed each other and respected each other. We were aware that we were all different but yet alike.
My husband is a POC. He doesn't identify himself that way..he is just a human being. Frankly ...we were just discussing it the other day. He has never once thought "because I'm not white...." such and such happened. When he was younger he heard the racial slurs in school but chose to, as he says, let them run off his back.
So putting our two upbringings together...we just look at people as people. When I came back to the states as an adult and had to fill out an application....you had to check mark your ethnicity/race back then. I had to ask my brother what I was lol...I swear. I was amazed ...what, for example was Pacific Islander etc.? I had no idea.
My husbands family though...not all same thinking. Some in his family have made comments about others in the family...the "lighter skinned ones having it easier that the dark skinned ones" This proves, I guess, that sometimes its not even how the individual is raised that has to do with how they think. They were all raised the same.
And then there is his 86 year old mother whose best friend is..."oriental". No amount of explaining that the word is no longer accepted will change her vocabulary. Even her best friend refers to herself as such. She says they have been best friends for over 50 years and says "they don't get hung up on words or labels". They say that words keep changing ...what is correct one day is offensive another day and they don't care because "actions speak louder than words".
It kinda does come right down to that...IMHO right?
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Strategist
Member
07-01-2014
| Saturday, September 05, 2020 - 4:52 am
Gusmonster and Sincebb1, thank you for giving us a glimpse into your life stories.
Gusmonster, yours is a beautiful example of how life experiences, diversity and inclusion bring insight. Through all this, you have "kept checking yourself". Now, that is a wonderful example of someone who learns and grows every single day despite being brought up in a home where there was little exposure or understanding of racism. You did the work and it shows!
Sincebb1, that Oprah show sticks in my memory as well. It's a good example of how getting "beaten down" with words can affect someone tremendously. Imagine living a life like that. Black people in America live that every day.
I am a person of color who is married to a white man. I can also attest that racism exists in both our families. But if you ask any people who have those views, they don't believe that they are racist. It's not how someone is raised that makes them racist or not. It's what they say and do after that. It is each of our responsibility to do the work!
In Big Brother, Da'Vonne talked about the issues she has encountered in her life related to being a "dark skinned black girl". Throughout her life she has been treated a certain way because of this. People create a perception of her that comes from a "first impression". Having lived that life, it has changed who she is. Her instagram profile includes the words "UNAPOLOGETICALLY BLACK" and has some very beautiful thought-provoking visuals.
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Meggieprice
Member
07-09-2001
| Saturday, September 05, 2020 - 1:31 pm
I came right back here to read first thing that I had tie today because I am getting some great thoughtful insights.
One thing I do want to add about upbringing and how key it can be to who you become. My sons farther , now my riendlu ex-husband, is black. I honestly can tell you that when we met and fell in love I NEVER thought about his being that. I was falling in love and I saw him as a person- it was actually kind of clueless of me when I look back at it because when someone asked me how it felt out in the world to be a mixed race couple I actually was surprised to even consider it. I truly had not thought about color. I attribute that to my parents. However I also see that that sort of altruistic belief can lead you to not see the truth in every situation and I am seeing a lot in life I never really let in during this time in our country.
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Pschrfhd
Member
05-22-2011
| Saturday, September 05, 2020 - 1:49 pm
It's interesting to me to see how many of us here are involved in multi-racial relationships. My BF (a large, beautiful black man) and I have been together for over 20 years now.
Probably 15 years ago, however, I nearly lost him when I made the mistake of using the n-word when quoting someone else saying something. I was raised to think of the n-word as being bad as any curse word, but since I was "quoting," somehow I thought it was okay.
I had to fight my way back into this wonderful man's good graces, and he explained that it cut him to the heart to hear that ugly word come out of my pretty mouth. As you can imagine, that cured me of my quoting disease on the spot.
On the other hand, his best friend, his "partner" (a white friend who introduced the two of us) used to shoot hoops with my BF and a group of his black friends. Since they all called each other the n-word ending in "ah" rather then "er," this guy felt that it was okay for him to use that term also. It didn't take long for my BF to call him aside and let him know in no uncertain terms, that it was NOT okay, though I'm not sure the guy really understood the distinction.
Just a couple of stories from my life's journey that I have found instructive on the damage that can be done, even with the most innocent of intentions.
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Bbnut
Member
06-12-2006
| Saturday, September 05, 2020 - 1:56 pm
If Bayleigh won HOH...who would she put up? Not Day, David, or Kevin...so does that make her a racist?
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Pschrfhd
Member
05-22-2011
| Saturday, September 05, 2020 - 2:10 pm
Bbnut - It would make her a BB player who actually had the stones to try and break up the power in the house, IMO.
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Bbnut
Member
06-12-2006
| Saturday, September 05, 2020 - 2:13 pm
My point is...Xmas is also a BB player not wanting to go after her own alliance...and no, I don't care for Xmas...I'd like to see her gone too.
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Mom_of_three
Member
08-01-2011
| Saturday, September 05, 2020 - 2:20 pm
Bb I agree. It just happens that they are on opposite sides, has nothing to do with race
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Meggieprice
Member
07-09-2001
| Saturday, September 05, 2020 - 3:05 pm
You have to stop and look down deep at why they might not BE in the other alliance Why they were not considered for the pre-alliance. These things can be subtle.
<77 - continuity only>
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Strategist
Member
07-01-2014
| Saturday, September 05, 2020 - 4:09 pm
Yes! It's subtle and harder for those with the power to see or understand.
If the cast was already pre-determined to be separate because of systemic bias that favours the larger group of white players, then they have already been segregated and delegated to the bottom without any one person to be solely blamed as a racist.
I find this to be a fascinating microcosm of real-life. IRL when minorities are systematically put behind before they even get to start, they have to fight harder to get to the same spot as the rest of the people. Often that forces the people who are behind to advocate for each other. They stick together to try to help each other to overcome their challenges. This does not make them racist. It makes them activists for each other, which is the only way that they can help change the balance of power.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Saturday, September 05, 2020 - 4:15 pm
Strategist, well put!
I would add that I distinguish between racism (which is only a characteristic of those WITH power), and bias, which can be a characteristic of anyone.
If people that have no power bond in order to protect themselves from the group with power, that's not racism.
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Strategist
Member
07-01-2014
| Saturday, September 05, 2020 - 4:19 pm
Good point. Everyone has bias.
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Pschrfhd
Member
05-22-2011
| Saturday, September 05, 2020 - 4:27 pm
I don't know if many (or any) here will agree, but I believe the accusation of RACIST! is thrown around way too easily nowadays.
The problem I see with this is that it tends to trivialize those instances of true racism which really need to have a bright light shone on them, along with a healthy dose of shaming.
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Strategist
Member
07-01-2014
| Saturday, September 05, 2020 - 5:07 pm
That's a hard one.
I wonder how we know what "instances of true racism" would be. I'm pretty sure most of us would say that going out of your way to hunt gun down someone because they are black is racist. But, where do we draw the line? When does a "health dose of shaming" apply, I wonder.
Is it racist to...
Stop people from coming to your suburb because it would bring your house price down?
Defend someone who makes a racist joke because they are your friend?
Say a racist joke yourself with "like minded" people?
Use a racial slur within your family and out of earshot of anyone of that race?
Calling someone a racist name to their face?
I've encountered all of these things at one time or another. I tend to believe that a lot of it happens not because people are purposely being hateful. Systemic bias has often allowed them to say and do racist things. Sometimes it's out of habit. Most of those people would not call themselves racists.
For sure, we should never call someone racist when they are not. However, some racists don't want to believe that they are racists. Others don't want to be called out for what they are because it shines a light on them.
The whole thing is really tough. It's up to each of us to do the work and stop doing and saying things that would harm people of color even if it's not deemed "racist".
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Saturday, September 05, 2020 - 5:22 pm
There are people who would accuse Christmas of being racist because she nominated two black people. However, is that enough or should there be significantly more evidence before such an accusation is made?
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Saturday, September 05, 2020 - 5:25 pm
I think the Christmas nom, as others have noted, is indicative of the problem in our society, where the "other" is immediately excluded on the most trivial of reasons. It may not be consciously because of their skin color, but it may be rooted in subconscious perceptions of who is like me, and who is not, and therefore who is trustworthy and who is not.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Saturday, September 05, 2020 - 5:26 pm
Similarly, a group of white players banded together and it's been suggested that has racial undertones. However, the first thing that they did was eliminate three white women from the game. The next person eliminated was a POC but he was an extremely close ally of the last white woman who was eliminated. Is that any evidence at all of racism?
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Keldogg
Member
08-12-2005
| Saturday, September 05, 2020 - 5:36 pm
Listen carefully.
How many times have Bay/Day been described as aggressive, scary, violent, sassy (which is a code word), thieves and other similar terms.
Xmas even stated she was afraid she would be physically hurt after noms.
These are all dog whistles.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Saturday, September 05, 2020 - 5:41 pm
I agree that’s bad. Have any of the other players been described in similarly negative ways?
By the way, that kind of terminology was exactly what I was referencing earlier.
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