| Author |
Message |
Sassyza
Member
09-03-2009
| Friday, September 04, 2020 - 2:08 pm 
I thought it best to just start a new thread regarding this issue in lieu of adding to other comments in the Live Feeds.
There are some members who have alluded to that Christmas (or any other white housemate for that matter) putting up two people of color on the block is racist. It has been suggested that for this to happen, the house guests must not have paid attention during diversity discussions. I think either type statement is unfair. Should an HOH not put two people of color on the block to ensure there is absolutely no possibility that this accusation can be made?
I personally have wanted Day to win and was so disappointed when Christmas won because Day made an error (I thought she gave the right answer and was so excited until Julie said she was wrong and then I saw I miscounted). I also get when she said she couldn't vote David out of the game and did not see it as racist. I had a long conversation with a friend who felt that if a white person had said they could not vote a white person out of the game it would be racist so why Day saying it about a black person wasn't racist. I explained to him Day not voting out a black person and wanting a black person to win BB for the first time in its history isn't racist but for a white to not vote a white out meant that they didn't want a person of color to win IS racist. I actually got him to see my logic and he gets it now. (BTW, there may be some who could argue my point and get me to think of it another way but I stand behind my opinions on this.)
To those who feel it is an unconscious bias or racist for an HOH to put up two people of color on the block, what do you suggest be done to rid these accusations?
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Keldogg
Member
08-12-2005
| Friday, September 04, 2020 - 2:36 pm
The game can be played without racism...when those who are in the majority recognize their own behavior and biases and actively work to overcome them.
There are some people in this house that have not done that work.
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Sassyza
Member
09-03-2009
| Friday, September 04, 2020 - 2:48 pm
Keldogg...thanks for your response. With all due respect, how do you know that have not done that work?
You state "...majority recognize their own behavior and biases and actively work to overcome them." What are the behaviors and biases that these house guests need to recognize?
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Pschrfhd
Member
05-22-2011
| Friday, September 04, 2020 - 2:53 pm
Bay and Day established themselves early on as the alliance "Black Girl Magic" and chose to sleep in the same room/hallway in the house immediately, self-segregating from other HG's IMO.
They should not be treated differently from any other perceived "duo" in the house; they have made themselves targets by playing together, regardless of their skin color.
The only reason it's Bay/Day going up on the block instead of Dani/Nic or Cody/Tyler is that the HoH's so far have thought these duos are tight with them.
The possible racism I can see is in the formation of the early alliances when all the white folks seemed to group together, though I don't really see that as intentional.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Friday, September 04, 2020 - 2:53 pm
I haven't been closely watching the feeds, however, there are some comments that people can make that may not be overtly or obviously racist but may suggest subconscious racism.
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Keldogg
Member
08-12-2005
| Friday, September 04, 2020 - 2:54 pm
Because of things that some people have been said.
Because people have said things that a real ally would never say.
Because people have not acknowledged that they are aligning themselves with those who look just like them and targeting the people who don't look like them.
Because the standards of what is acceptable behavior is different for different groups of people.
And because the POC are afraid to say something about it, because it paints an even bigger target on their back.
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Govols
Member
07-18-2005
| Friday, September 04, 2020 - 3:07 pm
It doesn't matter what anyone does or says. Someone will always call racism. Most often, there is no racism. If we are going to go into subconscious racism, we need to be fair and call out all subconscious behavior.
Like Enzo says, "Yo, it's too much, man".
It is not racist to put Bay/Day up together. I also "felt some kind of way" when Day said she wouldn't vote out a black person.
Personally, tired of hearing racist every time I turn around. I may become a racist before the year is out. That's how tired I am of it. Why not? What does it matter? I have been called racist when I know that I am not. But, it just keeps on coming, yo. Enough already, that's it.
So...my answer is no. It can't b/c there is always someone that will play the racist card. Always.
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Keldogg
Member
08-12-2005
| Friday, September 04, 2020 - 3:13 pm
Well, that is exactly the problem.
Because in many situations, white people have decided that they are the judge of what racism is.
Which I completely understand. Because if you've never experienced it, if you have never been the target of it and you haven't accepted the fact that the color of your skin gives you privileges, you are never going to get rid of it.
It does not mean that a person is a racist. It just means that they have not done the work to see how ingrained racism is in our society.
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Sassyza
Member
09-03-2009
| Friday, September 04, 2020 - 3:16 pm
Pschrfhd: I agree with your statement and as far as the subconscious racism when there were white people forming the alliance first, I viewed it as a few of them having the alliance BEFORE they even got in the house which made them cheaters in my mind and not racists.
Jimmer: I guess anything can be attributed to subconscious racism since the person is not even aware of it but others can accuse the person of it. How does one defend themselves from those types of accusations? I guess this is the world we now live in.
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Maineiac
Member
08-24-2009
| Friday, September 04, 2020 - 3:29 pm
Who is the judge of racism?
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Jade2
Member
07-12-2012
| Friday, September 04, 2020 - 3:31 pm
Well said Keldogg
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Maineiac
Member
08-24-2009
| Friday, September 04, 2020 - 3:33 pm
I agree Sassy, having an alliance formed before the game started doesn’t make you a racist.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Friday, September 04, 2020 - 3:38 pm
An example of subconscious racism is someone listening to a black person and commenting that the black person is speaking eloquently when they wouldn't have bothered to make that comment if a white person was speaking.
It sounds like a compliment, it is intended as a compliment, it isn't mean and it certainly isn't overtly racist. But it indicates surprise that a black person is eloquent.
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Sassyza
Member
09-03-2009
| Friday, September 04, 2020 - 3:39 pm
Govol, I'm afraid your last line does sum it up and sometimes that card may be played fairly and other times not fairly. Who gets to decide what is fair and not fair?
Keldogg, How can one prove they have done the work to see how ingrained racism is in our society? The answer is they can't.
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Govols
Member
07-18-2005
| Friday, September 04, 2020 - 3:40 pm
So, there you go. I am either a racist or I am the problem b/c I haven't done the work about racism in our society.
Yo, that's it. It's me that is doing something wrong.
If you knew how much I love some black people, you would not even think this of me. There are also white people that I don't care for as well. I know my heart.
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Kebob
Member
09-16-2006
| Friday, September 04, 2020 - 3:46 pm
I find the use of the term sassy, particularly when applied to black women, as a micro-aggression. It is not applied to men for the most part, and it confirms a distasteful stereotype.
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Govols
Member
07-18-2005
| Friday, September 04, 2020 - 3:56 pm
Jimmer, That example doesn't apply to me. If I were to say someone spoke eloquently, I would mean it no matter the color of skin.
Now, if you heard it the way you described, that is in your head. Not mine. You would have taken a sincere compliment and telling me what I am thinking. It just doesn't seem fair to me.
Your example only makes me wonder what black people are thinking when they compliment me.
The secret is the heart. You can't know someone's heart unless you know someone's heart.
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Mom_of_three
Member
08-01-2011
| Friday, September 04, 2020 - 3:59 pm
I do not see racism here, what I see is people wanting racism to be there to explain a situation. Kellogg I disagree on you definition that white people can not judge what is. Racism. I may have blond hair and green eyes but as a Jew I have received and heard so many anti Semitic comments In my life. I don’t on the other hand think that one is different then the other. What I do believe is that every person should be treated with equality and respect. Saying I am not going to vote someone who is black out just because of their skin color is racist. Just like saying I am not going to vote for someone is black. Both are racist comments. Saying I am going to vote for someone I think played the best game is the best response I do not want to hear their religion, sex or color I want them to look at the person. Sorry for my vent I just hate the racism in this world and want it to stop
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Sassyza
Member
09-03-2009
| Friday, September 04, 2020 - 4:00 pm
Jimmer, thanks for that example. Kind of sad though that compliments cannot be given without having to wonder if that compliment will be torn apart by someone thinking there was an implication that it was anything but a compliment.
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Sassyza
Member
09-03-2009
| Friday, September 04, 2020 - 4:08 pm
Kebob - - I took the name 'sassyza' because I was told by my 'boss' at the time that I was being sassy. I guess he knew enough not to call be b*tchy although I knew that was exactly what he meant.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Friday, September 04, 2020 - 4:21 pm
First of all, I'm not talking about anyone posting here.
I agree it's sad that a compliment might be taken the wrong way. It can be hard for me to know precisely why I think the way I do about certain things and how much my subconscious feelings come into play, much less trying to figure out why other people think the way they do.
It's easy to see blatant racism (Nazi flags, etc.). The other is harder to see.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Friday, September 04, 2020 - 4:29 pm
Oh and bringing back to Big Brother, I don't think that nominating two black people (especially at this point in the game) is at all automatically indicative of racism.
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Sunnyday
Member
08-07-2014
| Friday, September 04, 2020 - 4:37 pm
One of the people I admire most in this world opened my eyes to passive racism, I haven't thought the same since. It opened my eyes. I know I still miss a lot so I appreciate everyone here who points it out to me. I wish the word was not this way.
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Jadajean
Member
03-23-2008
| Friday, September 04, 2020 - 4:39 pm
The problem with most racists is that they don’t consider themselves racists.
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Pschrfhd
Member
05-22-2011
| Friday, September 04, 2020 - 4:48 pm
I asked the question on the Live Feed thread the other day: why was everyone so up in arms when Memphis supposedly called David "boy" (I know, that's a bad term, going back to slavery), but nobody is offended by the HG's constantly referring to Bay and Day as "the girls"?
Also, is it racist for Xmas to tell Dani she's going to get "knifed" after noms? Kinda feels that way to me...
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