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Leah Remini: Scientology and Aftermath

Reality TVClubHouse Discussions: TV Shows: Leah Remini: Scientology and Aftermath users admin

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Archive through June 01, 2017Jimmer25 06-01-17  3:01 pm
Archive through August 03, 2017Babyjaxmom25 08-03-17  11:48 am
Archive through September 01, 2017Babyjaxmom25 09-01-17  11:38 am
Archive through September 14, 2017Rieann25 09-14-17  9:45 am
Archive through October 17, 2017Scotchbright25 10-17-17  1:41 pm
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Lexie_girl
Member

07-30-2004

Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 3:36 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lexie_girl a private message Print Post    
I've had family members who suffered from depression and a BFF who suffered from post-partum depression after she gave birth to her child. Treating either of them with vitamins and exercise isn't going to cut it.

Don't even get me started on Katie Holmes. I always felt like Tom Cruise and the CoS kidnapped her.

Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Tuesday, October 17, 2017 - 7:59 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
Katie had to be quiet while giving birth.. That is the rule, clearly written by a man.

Babyjaxmom
Member

10-20-2002

Wednesday, October 18, 2017 - 9:33 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Babyjaxmom a private message Print Post    
Every time I see Nicole Kidman or Katie Holmes, I think how lucky they both were to get away from that awful cult.

Mental illness runs in my family. My dad suffered from depression (never treated, because of the social stigma), my older sister committed suicide in her 20s and her son (my nephew, who my parents raised and is more like a brother to me than my own brother) tried to follow in her footsteps in his 20s also. He's now 50 and is living a fairly "normal" life with his family, thanks to modern medicine. Tom Cruise and Scientology are full of sh*t. And LRH was a very evil man who's destroyed countless lives. I hope he's burning in hell.

Jenjackso
Member

02-10-2009

Monday, October 23, 2017 - 2:47 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jenjackso a private message Print Post    
I hope she does this:

http://ew.com/tv/2017/09/29/leah-remini-season-3-scientology/

JW's are not as dangerous as Scientology but they are destructive to families. And the quote that says they are powerful, I actually don't think they are really all that powerful. Over members, yes, they are, but not to the public. I love the idea of protecting people who may think they're just nice Bible students that come to your door to teach you. No, they find people with depression and promise them they never have to die and will live on a paradise earth, once God destroys the bad people. I always wonder if they've even slightly considered what a post-apocalyptic world actually looks like. The destruction to vulnerable people who need their families should be divulged, along with the hidden child molestation. I hope they get the green light on this!!

Boberg
Member

10-04-2002

Tuesday, October 24, 2017 - 2:54 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Boberg a private message Print Post    
Most everything said in that article Jenjackso posted about JW could be said about the Catholic church, they would just have to amp up the child molestattion if you substitute JW with Catholic.

Jenjackso
Member

02-10-2009

Tuesday, October 24, 2017 - 9:40 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jenjackso a private message Print Post    
The Catholic Church is nothing on the level of JW's. Guess if they do the show you'll have to watch to see. The control over members is crazy. I lived it!

Jenjackso
Member

02-10-2009

Tuesday, October 24, 2017 - 9:42 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jenjackso a private message Print Post    
Oh, and are you familiar with the child molestation situation within the JW's? Thank goodness the Australian Royal Commission is taking them on. The U.S. has not gone after them, for some reason, but Australia is on top of it.

Sadiesmom
Member

03-13-2002

Tuesday, October 24, 2017 - 10:15 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sadiesmom a private message Print Post    
I think a lot of people find religion a great hiding place for pedophelia, You trust your religious leaders with your children and you don't question authority. I don't get religion which is probably why I am an atheist. I mean I understand the fun of rituals or some of them, but not the unbalanced trust of words that can have changed and twisted over time or is based on someone's interpretation.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Wednesday, October 25, 2017 - 5:46 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
I’m not a fan of Scientology. However, it’s not a lot odder than some other religious beliefs. The problem with Scientology (and to a degree with some other religions as well) is when they use coercion to force people to follow set religious beliefs and stay with the religion. The other problem with Scientology is the fees they require in order to progress in the religion. Makes it like a scam.

Dipo
Member

04-23-2002

Wednesday, October 25, 2017 - 10:18 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Dipo a private message Print Post    
What I find fascinating is that the whole religious thing is based on LRH, Diantics and Scientology, yet one of the shows I saw last night reviewed multiple documents that said they do not support the words of those references, they are only opinions.

I can't even imagine the Catholic church, just as an example, saying yes we are a religion but we don't support what the bible says.

It's mind boggling.

Sadiesmom
Member

03-13-2002

Wednesday, October 25, 2017 - 11:12 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sadiesmom a private message Print Post    
maybe I am misremembering - but didn't dianetics come from a bar bet that Hubbard said he could start a for profit religion? That story sounds so familiar to me, I mean he stated he was going to found a religion and then he did and he said it would make him rich and it did.
Of course it is not like be jailed as a serial scam artist and found a religion based on reading stones in a hat with no witnesses.
or pretty much how any religion was founded. and yet some religious people think atheists are avoiding the truth.

Irsnappy
Member

01-13-2009

Wednesday, October 25, 2017 - 11:53 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Irsnappy a private message Print Post    
IMO whenever a group, religious or otherwise, cuts you off from the rest of the world it is considered a cult. You can still be whatever religion you desire and be able to associate with people outside of that said group. Anything other than that is nuts....

Dipo
Member

04-23-2002

Wednesday, October 25, 2017 - 11:54 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Dipo a private message Print Post    
Agree, Irsnappy.

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-30-2000

Wednesday, October 25, 2017 - 12:32 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
FWIW, that bar story has been largely discredited. There are other contemporaries of Hubbard who claimed that religion was the "best way to make money," but memory being what it is, (ie, not reliable) I wouldn't consider that proof.

More importantly, it clearly has become all about making money today.

Grooch
Member

06-16-2006

Wednesday, October 25, 2017 - 12:59 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Grooch a private message Print Post    
I always heard (like 30 years ago) that he wrote the books as science fiction. He never meant it to be a religion. That people who read the books started turning it into a religion. When that happened, it was like, why not make money off it, type of thing.

This isn't a very reliable story either.

Sanfranjoshfan
Member

09-17-2000

Wednesday, October 25, 2017 - 1:35 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sanfranjoshfan a private message Print Post    
Back in the day, L Ron said a lot of things about starting a religion. I heard that many years ago, but just now did a quick search and found these quotes on Wiki:

L. Ron Hubbard

<snip>

Quotes

<snip>

"You don't get rich writing science fiction. If you want to get rich, you start a religion.

Response to a question from the audience during a meeting of the Eastern Science Fiction Association on (7 November 1948), as quoted in a 1994 affidavit by Sam Moskowitz.

This statement is similar or identical to several statements Hubbard is reported to have made to various individuals or groups in the 1940s. Variants include:

[too many similar quotes made at different places and times to post here - they are at the link below]

<snip>

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/L._Ron_Hubbard

Babyjaxmom
Member

10-20-2002

Wednesday, October 25, 2017 - 2:48 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Babyjaxmom a private message Print Post    
Makes it like a scam.

I think you could easily take the word "like" out of that sentence, Jimmer, and it would be even more true.

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-30-2000

Wednesday, October 25, 2017 - 3:34 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Thanks, Sanfran, but again, it's just not proof. The same affidavit you quoted has two contradictory witnesses (two science fiction authors who were in attendance) who signed affidavits that he said nothing like that at that talk.

The thing we have to be wary of is that human memory is not eidetic but is constructive. That is, we remember things not as they happened but as they make sense to us later.

In fact, the original source of that quote "(I'd like to start a religion, that's where the money is.") is George Orwell (1938).

That said, it's certainly possible that was his intent, but like the bar bet story, we don't have reliable proof that any of that happened.

Sanfranjoshfan
Member

09-17-2000

Thursday, October 26, 2017 - 12:18 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sanfranjoshfan a private message Print Post    
"Thanks, Sanfran, but again, it's just not proof. "

I agree. I get your point.

Now I am making an observation from a different perspective.

I get that there is no actual "proof" he said those words, (just "he said/he said" witnesses) but that's pretty much true of anything that anyone has ever said before the invention of recording equipment and or forensics. All of history before such inventions is basically hearsay, isn't it?

Whether L Ron said those exact words or not, he did act on that idea. I see it as a case of the proof of his intent being in the pudding, not in video evidence of whether or not he told others the recipe.

So maybe he didn't say it...but from my perspective, it doesn't really matter because we all know he did it...and I just don't think he could've done it without planning it or without intent.....unless of course the aliens in the volcano and all that crap were actually real.

:-)

Boberg
Member

10-04-2002

Thursday, October 26, 2017 - 1:44 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Boberg a private message Print Post    
I am loving and learning from this great discussion you all are having here...I hope it continues as I will keep checking in to read your findings and thoughts on the subject. Thank you.

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-30-2000

Thursday, October 26, 2017 - 8:05 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
L. Ron Hubbard was speaking during the age of recording, and there are no recordings or writings of him saying it that are extemporaneous - that is, at the time he supposedly said it. :-)

He doesn't deserve any defense. I just know that we live in an age where facts matter less, so I wanted to get the facts out.

What he founded was fantastical, and damaging, and it has only gotten moreso over time. Whatever his motivation, we can judge him on the results. And that verdict is in.

Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Thursday, October 26, 2017 - 9:39 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
It is not a religion, but a business and cult.

The IRS inexplicably overrode the courts and exempted them from taxation. Crazy.

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-30-2000

Thursday, October 26, 2017 - 12:24 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Well, it is a religion by the legal/IRS definition.

Whether it is a *legitimate* religion is a different story.

I don't know that it has been tested in US courts? There was a fake news story running around a few years back saying that the SCOTUS had ruled they weren't a religion, but it WAS fake.

The UK Supreme Court and a few others internationally have ruled it on and determined it was a religion.

Sanfranjoshfan
Member

09-17-2000

Thursday, October 26, 2017 - 1:00 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sanfranjoshfan a private message Print Post    
"Well, it is a religion by the legal/IRS definition.

Whether it is a *legitimate* religion is a different story."


If it's a "legal" religion doesn't that make it "legitimate" by default? Doesn't "legitimate" basically mean it's lawful?

Grooch
Member

06-16-2006

Thursday, October 26, 2017 - 1:21 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Grooch a private message Print Post    
Didn't the Kardashians start their own religion, also?

Babyjaxmom
Member

10-20-2002

Thursday, October 26, 2017 - 2:32 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Babyjaxmom a private message Print Post    
I think it was the HBO special I watched a year or so ago that said that the IRS attempted to go after Scientology to remove their tax exempt status, but the leaders ordered the members to sue individual tax collectors. The IRS was so inundated with lawsuits that they finally cried uncle and gave up. This is the way Scientology attacks people.

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-30-2000

Thursday, October 26, 2017 - 4:06 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
Sanfran, some cults qualify as religions as well. That doesn't make them legitimate in my view. I don't think legal is the ultimate qualifier of legitimate.

BabyJax: not sure that's exactly correct. The main church administration was housed on the Sea Org for several decades, so it wasn't subject to any country laws for some time.

Individual churches that were located in states were pursued. In response, scientology then committed an espionage campaign that resulted in many Scientologists going to jail, including Hubbard's wife. It also meant Hubbard stayed in hiding for the rest of his life.

The lawsuit campaign was against the IRS itself, hundreds of lawsuits were filed; and individual members were encouraged to file their own as well. Eventually that lead to a *negotiated* settlement in 1993, which resulted in Scientology paying over $12 million in back payroll taxes, and the IRS giving them tax exempt status, and all of the lawsuits were dropped. This was only possible because Hubbard had died and was no longer personally profiting off the "church's" activities.

Pamy
Member

01-01-2002

Thursday, October 26, 2017 - 6:06 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Pamy a private message Print Post    
you would be shocked at the groups that claim they qualify for a religious property tax exemption

Sanfranjoshfan
Member

09-17-2000

Thursday, October 26, 2017 - 7:21 pm   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Sanfranjoshfan a private message Print Post    
"Sanfran, some cults qualify as religions as well. That doesn't make them legitimate in my view. I don't think legal is the ultimate qualifier of legitimate. "

I have always thought of the word "legitimate" to mean "legal" since they both come from the same root so that confused me.

https://www.google.com/search?q=legitimate&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

---

There are lots of legitimate religious groups and organizations that are still cruel or harmful or deceitful.

Jimmer
Moderator

08-30-2000

Friday, October 27, 2017 - 5:46 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Jimmer a private message Print Post    
If the legal definition doesn’t work, what makes something legitimate? Good question.

Karuuna
Board Administrator

08-30-2000

Friday, October 27, 2017 - 8:32 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Karuuna a private message Print Post    
In standard English, we use the word legitimate to describe a lot of things that have nothing to do with legality/law. Sorry if that confused you.

being exactly as purposed :neither spurious nor false

a legitimate grievance

a legitimate practitioner


https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/legitimate

Lexie_girl
Member

07-30-2004

Monday, November 13, 2017 - 3:18 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Lexie_girl a private message Print Post    
The bonus show last night was great. Leah and Mike had Tony Ortega as a guest. He has been writing and exposing Scientology for the last 20 years. The show was about "propaganda arms."

Seamonkey
Moderator

09-07-2000

Monday, November 13, 2017 - 9:28 am   Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post    
If an organization is tax exempt, as in a church, mosque, synagogue, or charity, they are not allowed to make huge profits that don't go to their charitable mission.

No way should Scientology qualify.

As shown last night Hubbard stressed the getting of publicity as the top goal in all these auxiliary operations, and making wild unsubstantiated claims that they are helping vast numbers of people, countries, etc.

I was only aware of Narconon until recently.. And that was on the list of cults by the cult awareness network.

Good show.. Yes pay people to smile while holding your leaflets when you could actually be helping people after a disaster!

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