| Author |
Message |
Mameblanche
Member
08-24-2002
| Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - 2:08 pm 
I really worry for his children.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - 2:33 pm
Influence is not control. As any parent will tell you, especially the parent of an adult. 
So, unless he was legally ordered into treatment, or someone held a gun to his head, it was still "willingly."
And your opinion is your opinion. But an opinion is not a diagnosis. And he was not convicted of any crime to earn that designation either.
There is no evidence of any "luring" that is your word, and it's not what the police report says.
My interest is in making the world a better place, rather than raining down judgment without full knowledge of the circumstances on any individual. IMO, that's not helpful, to anyone. The wholesale condemnation of someone who very well may have a biological problem that was untreated sets the goal toward understanding mental health back eons, every time.
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - 2:52 pm
Oh, Kar, your last paragraph is a gold mine of good sense!
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - 2:59 pm
Thanks, OG. As someone who grew up with 2 mentally ill parents, both untreated, I see the damage done, both by the lack of treatment, AND the lack of understanding that their behavior was out of mental illness, not out of malice.
As a nation, we are incredibly backward and childlike in our inability to understand what it truly means to be mentally ill, and how it colors your entire thought process.
We seem to think that everyone MUST see the world the same way we do, but the fact is, mentally ill people do not.
Do I think the behavior should be excused, simply because someone is mentally ill? NO! But I don't think deciding someone is evil is the right answer either. Mental illness is not evil, it is mental illness.
The right answer is education of the public, and more adequate treatment. And treatment that does not destroy families in the process. I've seen families destroyed more by the inept treatment than whatever the issue was in the first place. That's just how poorly we understand mental illness, and how poorly we handle it.
/getting off my soapbox now. 
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - 3:18 pm
Oh, there is no way Josh is mentally ill. Just a horny guy getting off on his little sisters, then porn, AM hook ups. Thinking he's above getting caught by his wife. He leads a double life....preaching his version of the bible, working
Feverishly Against the lgbt community. A horny fraud does not make one mentally ill. If he's claiming addiction to porn I call bull hockey .....he just liked getting off on it.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - 3:20 pm
Lilfair, where did you get your license and when did you complete your clinical examination of Josh Duggar so that you could reliably reach the conclusion that he is not mentally ill?  Kind of kidding, I know we all have our opinions, but really only a licensed professional can definitely make that kind of judgment.
It's funny, on the one hand, people say how mentally damaging their upbringing is, and then on the other say, they can't possibly be mentally damaged, they are just evil.
It seems awfully contradictory to me.
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - 3:20 pm
My only encounter with serious mental illness is one of my Bible study ladies with bi-polar illness. When she's on her meds she's just like anyone else. But off of them she is very scary and so out of control. You could almost think she is someone else.
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Pippin04
Member
10-26-2007
| Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - 3:46 pm
Not sure how new this is nor do I know anything about the source:
http://celebrityrelationshipindex.com/celebritycouplenews/josh-duggar-ashley-madison-danica-dillon-porn-affair
To me this one just seems like someone jumping on a bandwagon.
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - 4:27 pm
I would not be surprised if it were true, but would not bet any $$ on it either...
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Rehtse
Member
08-17-2005
| Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - 4:43 pm
Hey on the bright side, at least he was not pulling a Jared fogle. Hopefully this means that he is attracted to women and not young girls.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - 7:24 pm
OG, I have a very dear friend who has struggled with bipolar for years. While it likely had its origins in his genetics, I don't doubt that his crazy parents (rabid racist isolationists) exacerbated it in him. Funny, though, even though he was raised in that racist household, even sent to work for an underground racist supremacist newsletter for some time, one day he just realized it was all wrong - and he is one of the most liberal and kind people I've ever known. Even with his illness.
Which just goes to show, that upbringing isn't everything. It has *influence* but isn't determinant.
It's just another example of how no one can say definitively how much their upbringing influenced who or what they became.
But you can't have it both ways. On one hand, saying their crazy upbringing and denial of sexual activity will make people act out sexually, and then say they just act out sexually because they are evil.
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Muffin
Member
08-29-2007
| Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - 10:12 pm
It was too good to be true. Josh Duggar is at the Reformers Unanimous Discipleship Schools. It's another faith based place. No mention of professional psychiatrists or psychologists. It's work, pray, repent. Doesn't look like he will get clinically diagnosed there. This family is a lost cause, seriously!
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Chieko
Member
11-20-2003
| Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - 10:16 pm
"Luring his 5 year old sister to sit on his lap so he can read her a book and then proceeds to fondle that 5 year old vagina"
How do we know these details?
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Naja
Member
06-28-2003
| Wednesday, August 26, 2015 - 10:18 pm
Chieko, it was in the police report.
(eta: the police reports were posted here months ago, not sure how far back)
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Thursday, August 27, 2015 - 6:06 am
Muffin, I don't recall that detail in the report.
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Thursday, August 27, 2015 - 6:08 am
The report is readily available online. I just don't have the time to search through all the pages.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, August 27, 2015 - 6:38 am
Yes I'd heard it was some sort of religious rehab group. If praying worked for Josh then he would be a saint. It's sad how some people just keep trying the same thing and hoping for a different result.
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Roxip
Member
01-29-2004
| Thursday, August 27, 2015 - 8:00 am
Perhaps it isn't just praying, although prayer for a Christian is a fundamental part of life. I looked at their website and at several other pages and they seemed to have a very comprehensive program. What I didn't find, however (and would have liked to have seen) was who they had on staff and what their credential were.
A lot of addiction programs are faith based. Even at its heart AA is faith based...the belief in a greater power.
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Thursday, August 27, 2015 - 8:40 am
I like to run into St. Frances prayer from time to time. Most of the prayer even works for those of us who have no 'higher power' belief system.
"Lord, make me an instrument of your peace.
Where there is hatred, let me sow love;
Where there is injury, pardon;
Where there is doubt, faith;
Where there is despair, hope;
Where there is darkness, light, and
Where there is sadness, joy.
"O Divine Master,
Grant that I may not so much
Seek to be consoled as to console;
To be understood as to understand;
To be loved as to love;
for it is in giving that we receive;
It is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life."
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Muffin
Member
08-29-2007
| Thursday, August 27, 2015 - 9:27 am
They have their main staff on their website. If you click on each tab you will find it. As well as what their day will be like.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, August 27, 2015 - 10:04 am
Chieko, it was in the police report
Not exactly. There was nothing about "luring".
The police report says that he was reading her a story, and he began touching her breasts and "vaginal area" and she got upset and ran and told their father.
So the quote is a bit of a distortion from what was actually reported.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, August 27, 2015 - 10:11 am
It doesn't sound like they have anyone educated, licensed or degreed in psychology. However AA works very well without those people as well.
It does sound like one of their male mentors is someone who had the same issue as Josh.
As I noted before, the MOST successful anti-recidivism programs for criminals in jail are these kinds of conservative religious programs. They also do not use clinicians or professionals.
It may well work for Josh. Time will tell.
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Thursday, August 27, 2015 - 10:27 am
My BBF's son with a 20 year narcotic addiction (living under bridges and prison time) has now been clean and sober with a wife, children and his own business for over 15 years. This is all thanks to a faith-based rehab facility.
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Muffin
Member
08-29-2007
| Thursday, August 27, 2015 - 10:50 am
My gut instinct, and this is only from me.......I think Josh is there under suicide watch. He most likely won't have access to a computer. He has to know that he has destroyed his family's name, caused their show and therefore their biggest income to end. He has hurt everyone in his family by his actions. That is a lot for any one person to have to live with.
Time will tell, like you said Karuuna, but I am not holding out hope for Josh Duggar.
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Thursday, August 27, 2015 - 11:13 am
King David was quite a critter too. He finally got his life in order. There is always hope.
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