| Author |
Message |
Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - 10:48 am 
FWIW, since I am now a member of the cancer community, I will tell you that losing your hair for. whatever. reason. is very painful to most women. Call it a disability, or not... it's not fodder for jokes.
Yes, some people laughed. Some people laugh at videos of people being injured. That's not a measure of what's appropriate. And sometimes laughter is nervous... because people don't know how to react to something cruel.
It is cruel. Whether he intended, whether he knew, whatever. It's just as cruel as making fun of someone's acne. Or limp (as someone did the other day when I was trying to get across a busy parking lot). It's not right. And I'm dismayed that anyone would think it was okay.
Maybe he didn't know. But once he did, he owed her an apology. And I've yet to see that.
Just to add, a friend of mine lost her 14 year old son to cancer last year. He lost his hair.. twice. Gained weight because of the steroids. Would it be okay to make fun of him? Would it be okay if they didn't know he had cancer? Which physical attributes is okay to make fun of? I'd like to know! She said if someone made a joke about her son, she would have done much worse than Will Smith. I get it. Because I'm one of those being made fun of now.
So, have your laughs.
Strategist, as I recall, the only person that Will Smith slapped was a male reporter that grabbed him and kissed him. I would have slapped him too.
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Strategist
Member
07-01-2014
| Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - 11:18 am
I'm not condoning making fun of anyone. I was just making an observation about what happens on those shows.
Not sure if you recall, Karuuna but I have often said that there is never an excuse for disparaging a person's looks. You also know where I stand about hurting any person from a marginalized group. I have a family member with alopecia and have lost a few due to cancer. I know how painful it is to lose your hair.
As an aside, I've tried unsuccessfully to shift comments on our site in the past by mentioning that it's better to talk about what a person does and not their appearance, but I was told that "everyone makes fun of TV personalities". Apparently, that's part of the fun of analyzing reality shows. I don't get it, though. You know how much I despise a certain president. I've often called him out for his behavior, but I have never made comments on his looks.
With regards to Will Smith slapping someone in the past, I did not know the backstory. I still don't think that slapping someone is the answer to anything.
Zenya mentioned "If it was a woman comedian Will slapped over the same "joke", nobody would be justifying his action." I am still in that camp and would go further to say that physical violence is never the answer.
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Chieko
Member
11-20-2003
| Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - 11:43 am
I'm absolutely certain there is not one person on this forum that would ever make fun of someone that is dealing with a life threatening condition or any of the side effects they may be having to live with.
The empathy we feel for these people can never be underestimated and this is a very loving and caring group.
It may be exactly why I seem to have less feelings of sympathy for an elite Hollywood woman who chose to shave her head along with her daughter and many others. "I don't give two craps what people think of this bald head of mine. Because guess what? I love it," she concludes in the TikTok video, three days prior to Rock's inappropriate jab.
https://www.shape.com/celebrities/news/jada-pinkett-smith-alopecia-update
So which was it, she embraces her new hair style or in the same week she is reduced to tears and humiliated because of an innocuousness comparison Chris Rock made?
Her husband is the one to blame for this whole fiasco. There is no excuse in the world for what he did and the negative attention he brought to his family. He's an arrogant, reactive fool who has disappointed many people who looked up to him and thought of him as a roll model.
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Colordeagua
Member
10-24-2003
| Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - 11:56 am
Chieko
THUMBS UP!
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Strategist
Member
07-01-2014
| Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - 12:40 pm
He's an arrogant, reactive fool who has disappointed many people who looked up to him and thought of him as a roll model.
Yup. He's gone down quite a few notches in my mind.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - 12:51 pm
Again, I will say, that grace is the best response. Strategist, I agree it is NEVER okay. Which is also why I never participate in the BB forum here either. Because there is too much of that for my taste.
Yes, I would slap someone who grabbed me and kissed me. I do think that's an appropriate response. It's a slap, I'm not beating the heck out of them. And I think Will was justified in that instance. And it was more of a light tap, not a hard slap. It's a nothing burger, IMO.
I also see he apologized for this instance, and will continue to suffer consequences it would seem (as the Academy debates what to do next). It was a mistake, I agree. Consequences are appropriate. I'm unclear what happened between the moment he was laughing and Jada was rolling her eyes. But something clearly did. And we don't have access to that.
None of us are perfect. The definition of a role model for ME is that when we screw up, and we will, we make it right. But it seems like that's not the rule here, because when he tried to make it right, it wasn't good enough. I'm not sure for some, anything would be good enough. At least Will apologized. I'm still waiting for ANY sign of empathy from Mr. Rock.
And Chieko my point again, since it flew over, is that we don't know the internal sufferings of anyone. That Jada tried to claim her baldness, as many cancer patients do, does not mean others have the right to make fun of it. As anyone with hair loss issues will tell you, one day we may be rocking it, and the next we may be struggling to deal and on the verge of tears all day long. That's human and quite normal. That's why it should be off limits. Period.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - 12:53 pm
And I would also note, that any attempt to say my feelings aren't valid, because everyone here is so suppotive and caring, is not very supportive or caring.
The supportive and caring thing is to hear what those of us who actually are in these awful positions are saying, instead of minimizing it, because one day we were doing better with it than we may be today.
Give it some thought.
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Sugar
Member
08-15-2000
| Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - 1:13 pm
Many of us have lost our hair and it bothers some more than others.
Many people choose a shaved head for a variety of non medical reasons, they like how it looks, they don't want to bother with fixing/ styling hair, it feels free... Most people aren't privy as to why a person chooses any sort of look or style. Currently popular, something that appeals, something easy or breezy...
Chris Rock wasn't making a cruel joke. He was simply comparing that she resembled the G I Jane character. This was not cruel.
Karunna, it sounds like you are having a hard time with your own hair loss and limping. I hope this improves for you.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - 1:47 pm
And if you have a hunched back, would it be okay to compare someone to the character from Notre Dame? If you have a long nose, Pinocchio? Even if it was by choice, it is okay to make fun of someone's weight? All of these things should be taboo, frankly. Because we do NOT know the mental space someone else is in. It's not okay, ever, to make fun of how someone looks or dresses. The very fact that it bothers some more than others is the VERY reason it should not up for public ridicule, or any kind of joke, even a bad one.
The point is, and I keep saying, we don't know. Chris Rock either did know and was a jerk, or he didn't and should have steered clear. Either way it was wrong. And either way, he has not come out of hiding to say a word on the matter either. Now he DOES know. and he DOES know it bothered her. But not a word.
I'm not having a hard time with my minor hair loss or my limping, and I don't need you to hope I get better at dealing with it. What I do have a hard time with is people that think it's okay to make jokes about it, for me or for anyone. I have more important concerns, and so should we all. I'm not here for sympathy or empathy. I'm sharing my circumstances so people will at least have an opportunity to know we all handle it differently at different times. Some days good, some days not so much. But whatever it is, it is NOT okay for it to be fodder for someone else's humor. Ever.
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Sugar
Member
08-15-2000
| Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - 2:08 pm
Wow!
IMO, you are taking this way out of proportion. So be it.
We disagree the Chris Rock owes an apology. Fine.
I shall never again offer you any sympathy or hopes that your health improves as you are so affronted by it.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - 2:14 pm
That's fine, Sugar. I never want sympathy. Empathy, understanding-yes, but sympathy is often condescending. I don't need anyone to feel sorry for me.
And I took your post to be hoping that my ATTITUDE about my hair loss and limping improves... not my health. Lack of clarity, perhaps? If so, I'm sorry, but that's how it read to me. As I noted, I have bigger things to be concerned about, than some lost hair and a limp. Read my response carefully, it had nothing to do with wishes for my health to improve: I'm not having a hard time with my minor hair loss or my limping, and I don't need you to hope I get better at dealing with it.
And yes, he owes an apology because even if he didn't know and didn't intend to harm, he DID. And a "role model" would care about that. And apologize.
Is Mr. Smith being held to a higher role model standard? It seems so. Because he apologized, and yet it wasn't good enough. Apparently anything he ever did that was good is now wiped off the mat, and doesn't matter any more because he screwed up this time. However, Chris Rock says nothing even though he hurt someone and that's just fine, apparently.
I don't think it's out of proportion at all. If caring about people's feelings is out of proportion, then give me that label. I'll wear it proudly. People's looks should be off limits. Period. That's MY standard. It should be everyone's.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - 2:30 pm
A perspective on Chris Rock and what he knows about alopecia:
Not long after Will Smith slapped Rock at the Oscars award ceremony Sunday for comparing Pinkett Smith’s shaved head to Demi Moore’s hairstyle in the 1997 movie “G.I. Jane,” a clip from the comic’s film “Good Hair” began making the rounds on social media.
In the video, Rock listens intently as interior designer Sheila Bridges details her struggles with hair loss caused by alopecia. Bridges and Pinkett Smith both have alopecia areata — a disease that occurs when the body’s immune system attacks hair follicles, often on the scalp or face, but sometimes on other parts of the body. Sometimes hair falls out in chunks and only partial baldness results. Other times hair grows back, but repeated bouts of baldness can also occur.
“While I do not condone violence (or what Will Smith did), I am not completely surprised that Chris Rock got rocked by Will Smith after making the medical condition of @jadapinkettsmith part of his comedic schtick — disrespecting her publicly,” Bridges wrote on Instagram.
“Shame on you @chrisrock. Didn’t we sit down and talk at length about how painfully humiliating and difficult it is to navigate life as a bald woman in a society that is hair obsessed? As if life isn’t challenging enough out here as an unprotected black woman?”
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/movies/story/2022-03-29/chris-rock-will-smith-oscars-slap-alopecia-interview
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - 6:21 pm
quote:Many, many comedians have joked about the looks of people in the audience in the past. The targeted people just look at the camera and laugh it off. Not saying it's right, but making fun of people is a staple for many comedians especially at the Academy Awards and the Golden Globes.
EXACTLY why I stopped watching those shows and those performers who peddle such jokes as entertainment. Yes, I realize I'm not in the majority, but that is how I've always felt.
I grew up in the "sticks and stones can break my bones, but words will never hurt me" era and didn't buy that as a kid, either.
And in that same time period (the fifties) I remember how angry it made me that when a boy in my class, maybe 4th grade, returned to school with no hair (not sure why) and wore a stocking cap in class and our music teacher snatched it off his head, saying he was being disrespectful. Kids did laugh, but what a horrible woman, is what I thought. I keep thinking that we as a species/society have learned.
I am confused as to why it would be ok to mock a stranger, or someone in Hollywood, or someone perceived as being better off. Why would that be ok if it isn't ok to do that to someone you know?
Some people laugh when they know they are supposed to laugh, or out of embarrassment, or because "everyone else" is laughing.
Anyway it seems that Chris Rock wins in the end. His ticket sales for gigs have jumped since that night and the price of tickets has jumped as well.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - 6:48 pm
I think that a lot of people look at it as a part of the job of being a celebrity. If you’re going to make a fantastic living that is at least partially based on your appearance (and let’s not kid ourselves that it’s a coincidence that actors are generally physically attractive) then people are more likely to comment on your appearance.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - 8:11 pm
I’ll add that the same thing applies to politicians and political cartoons. Politicians in those cartoons are often depicted in a unflattering manner and I don’t recall many people being upset about that?
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - 8:19 pm
Oh that happens to people who don't make a lot, too. Even kids. I am just not comfortable with it.
Yes celebs often give up some things but I don't want to contribute to that.
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Juju2bigdog
Member
10-27-2000
| Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - 8:29 pm
I thought I read days ago that Chris Rock had made a heartfelt apology the next day. No?
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Mameblanche
Member
08-24-2002
| Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - 9:11 pm
Juju, no. His management team posted that he has not publicly commented on the incident at all and that the 'apology' making the Social media rounds is false.
(I think not pressing assault and battery charges says a lot about the guy. Will should be grateful and not expect an official apology. Although I think eventually he'll have to comment on it. And chances are he'll be remorseful.)
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - 10:20 pm
I am sure all the people who are buying inflated priced tickets to see Chris Rock will expect him to mention it.. humor, ya know.
......
But for all of them involved, it is a shame that there would be fake statements floating around.
Will's mom made her statement on camera, so that would be real. Jada's statement, I ASSUME is real.
I have not heard anything about Chris making a statement on legit news (and they definitely would report on anything he said. I mean they felt compelled to air a rant by Whoopi Goldberg today.).
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Colordeagua
Member
10-24-2003
| Tuesday, March 29, 2022 - 10:42 pm
Didn't we see a laugh from Will as his first reaction to Chris' G.I. Jane joke? He "got" the humor. Then Jada rolled her eyes and maybe said something to Will. She could have had a problem more with Will than Chris. No need for Will to get up and slap Chris.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, March 30, 2022 - 9:24 am
The fact that something is done a lot, does not make it right. There are still lines that shouldn't be crossed. That is all.
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Kookliebird
Member
08-04-2005
| Wednesday, March 30, 2022 - 9:31 am
Chris has his first standup performance tonight on the east Coast somewhere.
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Kookliebird
Member
08-04-2005
| Wednesday, March 30, 2022 - 9:48 am
https://variety.com/2022/film/news/bruce-willis-retiring-acting-apashia-1235219017/
Bruce Willis retirement from acting due to apashia. While they don’t say it, My mom had it from her stroke.
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Wednesday, March 30, 2022 - 9:49 am
https://people.com/health/bruce-willis-has-aphasia-stepping-away-from-acting/
THIS IS REALLY BAD...LOOK IT UP
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Scooterrific
Member
07-07-2005
| Wednesday, March 30, 2022 - 9:49 am
Weighing in here, and I'm not nullifying anyone's opinion, merely stating my own.
Was Chris's joke in poor taste? Yes
Did Will have the right to assault Chris for him? No
Physical Assault is never ok. And that was a walk from his seat, at no point during that walk did he think "maybe this isn't the way to handle this" and turn around? Apparently not
If he had an issue (rightly so) with Chris's "joke", it most certainly should have been handled differently. Talk to him after the show, something, anything, except how he handled it.
I've watched, and rewatched the unedited clip that shows what CBS didn't show, and the entirety of the "joke", Will did indeed laugh, and Jayda rolled her eyes.
There were much better ways for this to be dealt with, that didn't assaulting another person.
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