| Author |
Message |
Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Saturday, September 14, 2019 - 12:48 am 
Now Cliff is in the RV room taking to cameras. Jackson is awake and was looking at the door to the RV room! I cannot tell if Jackson can hear, but this is super STUPID for Cliff to talk about how he thinks Jackson and Holly will honor the deal and how he thinks he could beat people. Jackson is definitely awake. The camera are showing how close they are.
Really dumb, Cliff.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Saturday, September 14, 2019 - 12:50 am
I think Jackson cannot hear, but still...
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Saturday, September 14, 2019 - 12:51 am
Cliff signs off.
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Maris
Member
03-27-2002
| Saturday, September 14, 2019 - 4:20 am
Cliff deserves to lose if he believes that Jackson would pick him over someone who would be a guarantee for him to win 500k
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Wilsonatmd
Member
01-23-2001
| Saturday, September 14, 2019 - 6:30 am
At this point of the game, you have to remember the old saying- "A verbal contract isn't worth the paper it's written on"...C/N would be absolutely nuts evicting Holly over Jackson-they'd be banking on whoever got to Part 3 of the last HOH (because Jackson probably wins Part 1) winning Part 3, and that comp is a notorious crapshoot- and Jackson I think might know the jury a little bit better than C/N.
Sure, you don't know who Holly would take (I'm leaning towards Nicole)- but I think the odds would be slightly better of C/N winning both Parts 1 and 2 of the last HOH which would guarantee them both F2..
We'll see what happens today with POV- if J/H win its moot, as Cliff goes and Nicole likely ends up in 3rd unless she wins F3 HOH...if C/N do, it's a long time until the vote.
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Missyb
Member
07-28-2004
| Saturday, September 14, 2019 - 7:41 am
Where the HG's are in the game today is a perfect example of why the game is 14 days too long ( or, maybe an example of why it is so long !). There are no more delas. You took another duo. Thats where you are.
Cliff has played a near perfect game. He assessed his position in the game and the part he wanted to play. Win a few things so they dont discard you as the old guy right away. Be a vote for someone. WIllingness to work with others. Remain calm and collected no matter what happens. Dont lose your cool or your grip.
Until now! Now the effects of the house are taking a toll.
Unlike Nicole, who has accepted the fact that Holly and Jackson no longer are going to trust them or honor anything, Cliff has made himself believe that they will.
CLIFF !! Its BIg Brother and Jackson is a great player. He has set you up perfectly . Why would you think they would sacrifice themselves for you ??? Because JAckson has been preaching loyalty? So did you until you were willing to break the F4 deal. If you can do it, they certainly have more reason.
Holly is now bemoaning the fact she did not win the HOH, which she probably would have. You should be crying over it. Winning would have been playing your own game. Instead, you gave up your guaranteed spot.
The house really plays on your mind !! The most logical of people start to lose it!
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Carochar
Member
07-25-2005
| Saturday, September 14, 2019 - 7:58 am
IMO Jackson is brilliant at finding the pulse of whomever he's engaging with and what goes straight to their heartstrings. For Cliff it's honor and integrity, for Nicole it's sibling adoration, and for Holly it's her constant need to be petted and prized.
Not everyone can read others so well and then morph into the perfect companion.
I still don't want him to win but would begrudgingly accept it.
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Missyb
Member
07-28-2004
| Saturday, September 14, 2019 - 8:01 am
Carochar, perfectly said! Yes, that is what Jackson has been brilliant at. He never rests and is constantly making observations and collecting information.
Grudgingly, if he is at the end, he deserves it for really really good game play.
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Wilsonatmd
Member
01-23-2001
| Saturday, September 14, 2019 - 8:20 am
Caro- you're exactly right...I shudder to think if he had been in the house in Vanessa's season..
Plus he was extremely lucky that C/N didn't catch him eavesdropping on them and Tommy- that move could have seriously blown up in his face, and he got away with it. (He knew Cliff really didn't trust Tommy, and if he worked that angle it would be enough to get rid of him)...
I think Cliff is playing for 2nd place here- he likely believes Jackson, Nicole, and probably Holly all beat him in F2- and that while Nicole would take him, Holly probably wouldn't if it was between him and Nicole- so while it's really not the best move, he'll take Jackson to F3 and say basically "I just gave you $500K- will you give me $50K?" (of course, he could surprise us and try for the win).
He doesn't mind losing to Nicole, he doesn't mind losing to Jackson- but he doesn't want to lose to Holly in the F2 is my guess...
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Queenfish
Member
07-19-2006
| Saturday, September 14, 2019 - 8:24 am
Oh my goodness, this is making my brain itch. Gosh I hope Nicole wins this pov. Jackson must be giving them some kind of magic watermelon koolaide if they actually buy this crap. Cliff and Nicole are not this dumb or gullable. Surley not. Oh my.
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Wilsonatmd
Member
01-23-2001
| Saturday, September 14, 2019 - 8:30 am
I'm sorta hoping Holly/Jackson win POV just to make it moot- C/N made a mistake cutting Tommy (we know it, but they don't), and I don't want that mistake compounded by taking Jackson over Holly...I like Nicole's chances in Part 2 of the last HOH and maybe she surprises us in the endurance in part 1...
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Grooch
Member
06-16-2006
| Saturday, September 14, 2019 - 8:36 am
Queen, Jackson told Holly yesterday that Cliff is exhausted from this game and he is desperate and making sloppy mistakes at this point. I have to agree with him.
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Grooch
Member
06-16-2006
| Saturday, September 14, 2019 - 8:38 am
I just realized one good thing about Holly quitting the endurance so quickly. She and Nicole didn't batter and bruise their bodies for hours. This will help Nicole compete against Jackson if there's another endurance comp if there is one.
I'm grasping at straws here to find something good about this mess Cliff made.
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Queenfish
Member
07-19-2006
| Saturday, September 14, 2019 - 9:02 am
i know grooch. I am just totally shocked that cliff has mis calculated so much, at the end. It was a golden plan last week, except they showed their cards. Personally, I would have completely blindsided Holly with her and Jackson, not seeing it coming. Seriously,,I would have cut their throats, and sent her to Julie blubbering and shocked. I wouldn't have made a deal with Tommy, until minutes before the show started then just let the Jackson chips fall where they may. That would've made my day, had they done that. There's too many deals, too much, going with the house. And too much worry about Jackson's bull crap, and how his rotten tail would've reacted. But that's obviously not in their wheelhouse. I'm bumfuzzled.
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Bonbonlover
Member
07-12-2000
| Saturday, September 14, 2019 - 9:56 am
Cliff is being sloppy now. But I attribute last weeks fiasco to Nicole. She didnt even bother to talk with Cliff before she went to Tommy and said, I want to keep you. Then she wanted to be open and honest with Holly and tell her that they are having such a difficult time with the decision.
Had she spoken with her alliance member, Cliff, they could have come up with a strategy that they both were comfortable with. Instead, Cliff had to work overtime to clean up her mess (in his eyes) Then once the big dilemma was out, they lost all credibility with their F4.
I dont think it was Cliff's doing, but he is so loyal to Nicole and she messed up the week.
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Fan3
Member
07-07-2005
| Saturday, September 14, 2019 - 10:00 am
I think cliff is loyal to one person and one person only and that is cliff. I think he has grown to like Nicole but I don’t think he is loyal....
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Missyb
Member
07-28-2004
| Saturday, September 14, 2019 - 10:09 am
Bon, I agree that Nicole started the mess. She should have never insinuated to Tommy that she would like to keep him. But I think, in the back of her mind, she always knew that she would have a different agenda from Cliff . Both know who would take one over the other. It was not the same person.
But, these deals Cliff is trying to swing are naive. The only purpose is to use them in a closing argument. And now, because they almost reneged on tier deal, it holds no water.
Nicole understands neither HOlly or Jackson are going to keep a deal now. Cliff, believes otherwise.
Sweet and naive to think Holly needs permission to compete. However, if Jackson told her not to, she would not!!
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Needmylifeback
Member
08-13-2000
| Saturday, September 14, 2019 - 10:09 am
Watching the live feeds and what Cliff says to one and then the other ... and especially how he has said things about Nicole to others to imply he's doing all the work.. Cliff deserves what is coming to him.. his only saving grace will be if Nicole wins the VETO...
I am hoping for Nicole for the win overall.. but I'm now hoping that Cliff goes out 4th.. and he can sit in the hotel room for the week to decompress .. and think about the last couple of weeks....
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Tresbien
Member
08-26-2002
| Saturday, September 14, 2019 - 10:13 am
Cliff acts like he is Derrick and Nicole is his Victoria. He did make the deal with Jxn and Holly that got them this far. Remember when Holly was HOH and after noms she asked had Nicole ever come up to talk to her? Nope.
Cliff always wanted Tommy out so Jxn's lie served his purpose. Beyond that, as Bonbon said, Cliff got sloppy and is making poor decisions. Personally, I think both C/N should have voted out Holly. Nicole said it to herself and to the camera that you break up the showmance.
It pains me to say that Jxn is playing the best game and, sadly, they are making it happen for him.
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Cathie
Member
08-16-2000
| Saturday, September 14, 2019 - 10:21 am
I agree, Cliff has gotten very sloppy and complacent. Usually around this point production would cause a bit of paranoia, “do you really think Jackson or Holly would evict each other over you?” Nicole already suspects this but Cliff thinks he knows best. His idea to throw the POV to Holly is the worst idea ever.
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Wilsonatmd
Member
01-23-2001
| Saturday, September 14, 2019 - 10:21 am
I don't know if you can blame anyone on this- it was going to be a tough decision either way, but there was some miscommunication plus some sneakiness.
I do think the issue with Cliff was that:
1- he didn't trust Tommy, even before Jackson's misinformation campaign
2- even if he did, if it came down to him/Tommy/Nicole and Tommy won HOH, he couldn't be sure he'd take him over her..
3- he thought that if they had just followed the original plan, and it came down to Holly/Nicole/himself at F3 and Holly won HOH, there was a sightly better chance Holly would take him over Nicole..
4- he thinks that if he saves Jackson, he'd take him over Nicole if he wins F3 HOH as easier to beat plus he thinks he'll honor that deal (we know that's wrong and Jackson will cut him)
As I said before, I think Cliff believes he can't win against anyone left and is playing for 2nd place...
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Tresbien
Member
08-26-2002
| Saturday, September 14, 2019 - 10:28 am
Wilson, you're right that Cliff didn't trust Tommy, though I think the reverse is true. Cliff seemed to waver early in the week when he saw Nicole and Tommy chatting on the hammock. Cliff should have known that Nicole would choose him over anyone. I think there's a very good chance that Tommy would have taken him to F2 over Nicole.
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Missyb
Member
07-28-2004
| Saturday, September 14, 2019 - 10:29 am
Tres, I dont think CLiff treats Nicole as his Victoria. I think he values her opinion and thought process on all matters. She compliments his own way of thinking. They may not agree but he does not dismiss her or string her along. Quite a different relationship. I think he treats her with respect.
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Missyb
Member
07-28-2004
| Saturday, September 14, 2019 - 10:31 am
Holly sees Nicole in HER Hoh robe and gets more and more angry. She should be. What she did was ridiculous at this point of the game. She will always regret this move.
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Calimom3
Member
07-12-2007
| Saturday, September 14, 2019 - 10:33 am
This season has proven the days of an “endurance” comp are anything but! Not counting Holly throwing this last comp before the commercial break was even over, has ANY endurance comp lasted much longer than 1 hour? I don’t put much weight on endurance comps anymore. Either deals are made or EVERYONE quits fairly early... nobody has time to get comfy, make snacks and enjoy the spectacle. This season has been a waste of building elaborate sets for a few days, HGs being locked indoors being bored/sleepy. I’d rather see the puzzles and luck games, using strategy and having to PLAY the game!
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