| Author |
Message |
Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Thursday, December 12, 2019 - 9:15 am 
Well I can understand that as well, Roxip. It is in my selfish interest that Survivor continues because I generally love the show.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Thursday, December 12, 2019 - 9:24 am
I’m not sure why you feel vindicated? Dan wasn’t removed for anything we saw him do on the show. He was removed for something we didn’t see him do.
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Lyn
Member
08-06-2002
| Thursday, December 12, 2019 - 9:26 am
Why Survivor Contestant Dan Spilo Was 'Removed' from the Game and What the 'Off-Camera' Incident Was/
This was posted at People's website today...
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, December 12, 2019 - 9:30 am
stand by what I said before. I suggested that we did not see everything that happened. However, others were quick to respond to my post saying that there were cameras everywhere 24x7 and that if something happened it would have been caught.
I agree that we don't see everything. FWIW, I did not claim that they get everything on film.
As I said before, Kellee may have exaggerated, but he should have never tried to touch her again.
That's what I said.
So for this reason, I don't believe we should be making assumptions about her past "trauma".|
Except it's true of all things, not just trauma. ANYTIME someone over-reacts to a current situation, it's most likely because they haven't healed from a past situation. That's not an assumption, it's a well-recognized psychological phenomenon.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, December 12, 2019 - 9:31 am
Strategist - your USMagazine link doesn't work.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, December 12, 2019 - 9:38 am
I believe we perceive things from our perspective, our own history. We gather information and we interpret things based on what we know, what we believe... it’s kind of all around us these days. I mean truly think of the studies done in front of people, a “crime” is committed and they ask “eye” witnesses. It really reminds you everybody’s facts do rely on their perspective
Excellent observation.
That's why I was dismayed by Kellee's embellishment of the two incidents with Dan (that we saw on one show). From HER perspective it was clearly a violation. (I still don't think it was sexual assault). Since she found it so upsetting, I deduced that something in her history made her react that way (embellishing).
We are ALL subject to our histories. Other women were clearly subjected to the same treatment but weren't as emotionally affected by it. Creeped out, annoyed, finding it useful for game play - there were a wide variety of actions to Dan's touchiness.
We all jump to conclusions based on our own history. Some will see Dan's behavior as highly egregious - some will see it as annoying. Everyone sees it as problematic.
As a woman, I think we do best by validating Kellee's feelings and helping her find a better, STRONGER way to react, for her own sake. Because life is hard and there are difficult people to deal with.
And we educate men like Dan that touching in these days requires consent. All. The. Time.
It's a little sad to me that it's come to that, but it is the reality.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, December 12, 2019 - 9:40 am
Finally, I think we are owed a better explanation from Survivor than there was another "incident" off camera and with someone other than a contestant.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, December 12, 2019 - 9:42 am
Oh, Lyn... just saw your post, thank you!
This is what the article says:
PEOPLE has spoken to multiple people involved with the show’s production, who confirmed that the incident in question — which involved a member of the show’s production team — happened after an immunity challenge as Spilo and other contestants were getting into a boat to transport them back to the camp.
At one point, Spilo allegedly touched the female crew member’s leg. According to multiple sources, he insisted that the contact was inadvertent and accidental as he lost his balance while trying to get into the boat. At least one of the remaining contestants witnessed the incident.
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Dogdoc
Member
09-29-2001
| Thursday, December 12, 2019 - 10:03 am
Karuuna, you said Kellee over-reacted to being touched.
How can we say she over-reacted. She reacted a certain way due to past experience perhaps, but that was not over-reacting to her. She was protecting herself.
I don't see how there can be a definition of 'reaction' that would allow someone to call over or under reaction in her case.
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Ark
Member
07-09-2001
| Thursday, December 12, 2019 - 10:17 am
I suspect everyone is staying tight lipped about what went on and the reason we're getting a taped reunion is because a lawsuit has already been filed by Dan. Or at the very least a lawsuit has been mentioned and no one wants something said now to be on tape. Dan's behavior has affected this show in more ways than one.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, December 12, 2019 - 10:17 am
Good point, Dogdoc.
Yes, it's clearly not over-reacting to HER. I get that.
I call it an over-reaction partly because her perception/explanation of what happened was an exaggeration of what actually happened. When one reacts in concert with what happened, you wouldn't perceive it to be worse than it was. At least that's how I see it.
I also thought it was an over-reaction because of how she started crying when the producer asked her about it. She was more emotionally distraught than one would expect someone else in a similar circumstance to behave. Of course, that could also be due to the stress of the game itself, so I'll give her some grace on that one.
Look, my heart goes out to her. I used to work with victims of sexual abuse. I recognize the signs, and I see them in her like a flashing beacon. I think it's fair to add my observations based on that experience.
I appreciate that others may see it differently, based on THEIR past experiences as well.
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Dogdoc
Member
09-29-2001
| Thursday, December 12, 2019 - 11:34 am
I think I would be ok with saying she had a 'strong' reaction, rather than an 'over-reaction'.
Over-reaction sounds like a criticism.
For instance, I have a strong reaction to seeing Dan rub someone's arm.
I go back to when I was 12. Somehow I ended up in the living room, alone, with my grandfather.
He took my arm and started rubbing it slowly. In a soft voice he said, "See, aint that nice. You can't do that to yourself and have it feel good. I have to do it."
I pulled away. I never told anybody what he did. I knew it was very wrong.
That is why, when Dan's defenders said that it was not sexual assault, I asked "What if he is 'getting off' while doing it. I think it is an assault then.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, December 12, 2019 - 11:58 am
Okay, Doc.
I'm sorry that happened to you. 
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Reader234
Member
08-13-2000
| Thursday, December 12, 2019 - 12:22 pm
Exactly Doc.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, December 12, 2019 - 12:25 pm
By the way, we don't *know* that Dan was "getting off", we have no evidence of that.
And I'm not inclined to call it sexual assault unless there is evidence. I think that's fair.
If there is evidence of that, I would agree.
By the way, Doc, it may be that you have a strong reaction to my language because of your past experience. That's the point I'm trying to make. Call it over-reaction or strong reaction, it indicates a history of trauma.
I have a history of assault as well, but I have spent time recovering from that, and I don't have that strong emotional reaction... any more.
Again, I'm very sorry that happened to you.
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Dogdoc
Member
09-29-2001
| Thursday, December 12, 2019 - 12:35 pm
I don't think about it at all, until a situation comes up, like seeing what Dan was doing. I can be right back in my living room
IF Dan was doing it for stimulation, would you call it assault
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, December 12, 2019 - 12:48 pm
Dogdoc, yes that's my point, that when you haven't healed from something a *current* situation makes you *feel* the feelings from the past one. Hope that makes sense.
It's not a judgment, it's just a psychological reality.
Yes, IF, (and again we have no evidence of it) Dan was doing it to get some kind of thrill, then yes, it would be assault. To me. But likely not to a court of law.
Because of the language used to you, I would call that assault also. And child abuse.
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Dipo
Member
04-23-2002
| Thursday, December 12, 2019 - 1:05 pm
Hmmmm.... EDailyPop is reporting that the "incident" was Dan touching a crew members leg while exiting a boat and Dan saying he lost his balance which caused him to touch the leg. Dan apparently was against being kicked off the show, of course.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, December 12, 2019 - 1:33 pm
Yes, Dipo, I quoted that above at 8:42 am. 
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Thursday, December 12, 2019 - 2:03 pm
The only person who knows what was in his head is Dan. Has he made any statements? Not that a lot of people may believe him at this point.
It seems that in recent assault cases like this one that have received a lot of publicity, other women who have been assaulted in the past, start coming forward with separate independent accusations. I don’t think that has happened so far with Dan but it will be telling if that happens here.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Thursday, December 12, 2019 - 4:19 pm
I don't know why sexual assault is being mentioned. It was unwanted touching that continued after the toucher, Dan, was told to stop.
As we now know from People in links, he touched a female staff member on the leg and this was not on camera but the incident was witnessed by at least one contestant.
Also People reports that Dan claims that the touching was inadvertent and accidental, when he slipped getting into a boat.
Production disagreed.
The link is above to People's report.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Thursday, December 12, 2019 - 4:26 pm
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RjTkXIwQLBE
Rob and Stephen say that contestants of other seasons have talked of unwanted touching, but finally this season with Kellee, they did address it, but perhaps still did not act as soon as was possible.
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Reader234
Member
08-13-2000
| Thursday, December 12, 2019 - 4:31 pm
Imho Survivor would not have kicked him out if he “accidentally “ only touched a producers leg, that in itself is why there is such discussions and assumptions etc
I’m wondering what all went on behind the scenes and how CBS and the Les Moonves (et el) . Lawsuits had anything to do with how things ended up.
I know gaslighting has been brought up, and for me, and what I’ve seen and read I do think Dan fits the mold of a ‘rich’ powerful guy, that does know and use manipulation to his advantage. I think Survivor is a game and manipulating is how many players win...
But I go back to. Something stood out to pull him from the game. There’s no way this was just like, ok, that’s it he touched her getting out (or on, or both) so yank him. I think Jeff and the Survivor crew are way too smart for that.
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Cass_cat
Member
05-09-2011
| Thursday, December 12, 2019 - 4:35 pm
I've been reading some comments from last nights Rob/Steven's Know It Alls podcast... and they are horrible... so I have to run back here where civility reigns supreme! And RHAP is usually pretty good...
I heard Dalton Ross is saying this is the worst season ever...
I don't agree with that... what are everyone else's thoughts?
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Thursday, December 12, 2019 - 4:46 pm
I think legal teams on both sides have caused Jeff, Survivor Production and Dan from going into more detail so far.
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