| Author |
Message |
Pamy
Member
01-01-2002
| Saturday, November 30, 2019 - 2:57 pm 
After the Dan touching ep, Missy and Liz tweeted apologies. At the time, I thought they came off fake because they said something to the effect...'if I had known...'
I figured that meant they both made finals and never spent time with Kellee at ponderosa. Well, now we know they DID spend lots of time with her.
So now that leads me to believe Kellee never even mentioned it again to them at Ponderosa. We also are hearing from interviews the producers didnt make it out to be a big deal and they never were told someone complained. BUT on the tv show that aired I feel the producers mislead us.
I really think the producers have hung Dan out to dry and JP continues to do so in his current interviews. I think they are covering their ass in case Kellee tried to sue.
I was watching clips of old survivor and one season the girls were talking about a guy that creeped them out and they didnt want to sleep by him but he insisted. This isnt something new to survivor.
Bottom line, no girls on the island felt unsafe with Dan. I feel he just creeped Kellee out. his biggest prob was that he should have just let her alone
|
Heckagirl631
Member
09-08-2010
| Saturday, November 30, 2019 - 4:43 pm
Definitely nothing new. I remember the very first Survivor I watched, Ghandia complained about Ted being inappropriate with her.
|
Dipo
Member
04-23-2002
| Saturday, November 30, 2019 - 5:01 pm
Exactly Pamy, this has been an issue on survivor on many seasons.
And you determined what I thought, that the little talk they had with the group and with Dan was vague and not specific.
|
Azriel
Member
08-01-2000
| Sunday, December 01, 2019 - 1:44 am
Some of them can say they that didn’t understand what was going on, but Missy and Liz knew Kellee was upset. They knew why she was upset. They told Kellee that Dan was bothering them, too. They used it for gameplay. Missy and Liz get no pass from me.
|
Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Sunday, December 01, 2019 - 11:40 am
No one should get a pass.
The biggest offender is production, but Dan needed to stop and no one should have exploited the situation.
As for issues being downplayed after the fact, kumbayah, that is a true tale as old as time for the culture that tells people to shut up, suck it up and move on.
But again, producers are exploiting an actual issue for drama and ratings, while they have their multipage contracts to help them control someone who spoke up and cover their collective asses.
|
Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Sunday, December 01, 2019 - 11:44 am
I'm reserving judgement to see how it all plays out by the end of the season.
However, I'm sure that the Survivor producers used this to gain ratings and that at the close of the season Jeff will make some sort of hypocritical sanctimonious speech about how much they care about the feelings and safety of the contestants.
|
Dogdoc
Member
09-29-2001
| Sunday, December 01, 2019 - 11:53 am
'his (Dan) biggest problem was that he should have just left her alone'
I think her biggest problem was that 'he should have just left her alone'.
She deserved to feel safe and not have to worry about Dan touching her.
|
Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, December 01, 2019 - 12:09 pm
There is a BIG difference between being "creeped out" and being assaulted.
That's my issue with this. Kellee *perceived* Dan as creepy. Others did not. It's all a matter of perception.
Dan should have respected the boundaries she set. But it was not assault, and it wasn't some terrible thing. Annoying at worst.
That's my view, unless I see some evidence that his approaches were sexual. As of yet, I have not personally seen anything like that.
We are women. We are strong. We should not conflate annoying with assault.
|
Pamy
Member
01-01-2002
| Sunday, December 01, 2019 - 3:22 pm
I agree Kar.
Also, another interesting thing I read in Kellee's interview when asked if she has talked to Dan, she said something like I'm not going to answer that because it may take away from the situation... I'm totally paraphrasing but I found that a strange answer. why would telling us if they have talked and she is now ok with Dan take away from the situation. That was the feeling I got.
|
Pamy
Member
01-01-2002
| Sunday, December 01, 2019 - 3:25 pm
Dog, I dont think she ever felt unsafe, she just didnt want him touching her cuz he was creepy. She said she was fine with Tommy touching her though.
|
Lexie_girl
Member
07-30-2004
| Sunday, December 01, 2019 - 4:03 pm
I agree with both Pamy and Kar. I think they did Dan dirty.
|
Dogdoc
Member
09-29-2001
| Sunday, December 01, 2019 - 4:10 pm
Pamy, I just meant that she should feel safe that she wouldn't be touched again by him.
|
Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Sunday, December 01, 2019 - 4:40 pm
So some of you are inside Kellee's head and heart?
We are women and strong, but some of us sure seem to distrust other women at times.
And maybe to excuse men?
Why do approaches have to be sexual ( and how can we define what that means for someone else?) to be unwanted?
...
The lack of feeling heard, as in she asked him to stop, and he did not, is just one issue.
Another issue is that in a situation where you can be voted out for almost any reason or lack thereof, like BB and Survivor (and the more real life parallel, where speaking up can jeopardize a job or career), speaking up can be costly.
And there can be pressure to say no harm, all is well, when, in fact it is not.
As for waiting for interviews, maybe. Or There may be pressure to hush up or be blackballed from further opportunities that can come.. Like being invited to do other gigs or return for another season.
Pamy, Interesting read, but it also could be read that she has been warned not to talk. Or not to talk until after the finale?
Had Dan simply responded by stopping.. But now he is the only victim..
|
Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, December 01, 2019 - 4:53 pm
Sea, you're not inside my head either.
And not only that, you seem to ignore comments that I've made.
I have said that CLEARLY Kellee felt umcomfortable. I have said that CLEARLY Dan needed to heed her requests to stop touching her.
I've never said Dan was the only victim. You're jumping to a lot of conclusions that are false based on what was said here. And actually, that's kind of my point about Kellee and Dan too.
I have said that we have to draw a *distinction* between creepiness and assault. Kellee is not some hero of the metoo movement. Especially since the video evidence that we saw clearly indicated that on at least two occasions she exaggerated what Dan did.
It is possible to think that Dan is not some kind of crazy offender AND that Kellee had a right to ask him to stop touching her.
Guess what? In life, LOTS of times people won't hear you. That's life. If it's really important for you to be heard, then you say it again. And again. And again.
Granted, like the workplace, there are complications. You know what? If you're trying to win a million dollars in a game where lying and deception are routinely accepted, you might have to deal with some uncomfortable behavior. There is a LOT of unfairness built into the game. It wasn't sexual assault. NO ONE else thought it was, and he behaved the same toward them.
And she was fine with Tommy, or Janet touching her. Just not Dan.
I'm saying that we don't convict people based on perception. Only on facts.
My problem is that yes, Dan should have heeded her requests. And she should have told the truth, and not exaggerated. You have no right to make things up.
But you know what? It's Survivor. As long as it's not assault, if it bugs her, that's fair game. Hell, they do all kinds of things to annoy/bug/antagonize others. It's part of the game.
The producers asked people if they felt unsafe. She could have/should have spoken up truthfully. I don't think she felt unsafe. That's my best guess. Annoyed. Yes. Uncomfortable. Yes. But not assaulted, and not unsafe.
|
Pamy
Member
01-01-2002
| Sunday, December 01, 2019 - 7:17 pm
and keep in mind Dan can't do interviews yet so all this time he never gets to weigh in on the situation. If he makes final 4, he wont do interviews until after the finale.
For all we know, she and Dan are now on great terms..time will tell.
|
Pamy
Member
01-01-2002
| Sunday, December 01, 2019 - 7:18 pm
Dogdoc, ahhh I see what you are sayin
|
Pamy
Member
01-01-2002
| Sunday, December 01, 2019 - 7:22 pm
Sea, I have no problem with how you feel about the situation. I'm not trying to change your view, just stating the way I now feel about the situation. When all of this first aired I was so pissed at all of them, esp Missy and Liz but as things have played out over the weeks it changed my view
|
Azriel
Member
08-01-2000
| Monday, December 02, 2019 - 2:03 am
We saw Kellee exaggerate a situation with Dan and the hair touching. As Kar said, it's possible that Kelle felt uncomfortable, even if Dan did nothing that was wrong.
It's also possible that she thought she made it clear to him that she was uncomfortable, but that she didn't make it clear. The dont touch my hair situation wouldn't have been clear to me. I would have thought oh she's mad about something and she just wanted everyone to leave her alone so she snapped at me.
I think we underestimate how they subconsciously look for something to annoy them so they have a reason to write someone's name down.
|
Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Monday, December 02, 2019 - 9:14 am
Azriel, that's true also.
But it's also true that someone can "rub us the wrong way" for no discernible reason. Something about them reminds us of someone we had a bad experience with, for example.
Just like we can have instant liking of someone we just met, with no real reason why. Or chemistry with someone who is an awful person.
All of these things operate at a subconscious level and don't often have anything to do with the current person/situation.
In fact, some people may have an instant dislike of Dan simply because they dislike being touched by strangers (or even familiar people) in general. And others, who are touchy/feely (like me) may find that endearing.
That's why we simply HAVE to get clear about these things. A touchy/feely person is NOT a sexual assaulter. We will discredit people with real issues about assault if we turn everything into assault.
That said, there is nothing wrong with teaching people (like me) to be more respectful and to remember everyone is not like me.
Let me repeat that, so everyone gets it. Those of us who like to touch need to learn to be respectful. That includes Dan. And me. And Janet. And Tommy. And whomever else touches others and forgets to ask sometimes.
|
Ark
Member
07-09-2001
| Monday, December 02, 2019 - 2:00 pm
I've mellowed a bit towards Elizabeth & Missy. They didn't know Janet or Kellee or even Dan at that point. They had no idea of the history between Kellee & Dan. They had just been thrown onto the same tribe for the first time. Elizabeth & Missy were in full out game mode. They assumed Kellee & Janet were also in full out game mode and twisting things to get any targets off of themselves. None of us know if we could have deduced that what Kellee was saying was totally outside of the game while sleep & food deprived.
Dan on the other hand had been told by Kellee on day one that she was uncomfortable with his touching and did not want him touching her moving forward. He chose to ignore her feelings and continued to touch her. Personally, I don't think he meant any of those touches in a sexual way but that doesn't matter. When someone tells you not to touch them, you keep your hands off of them, period.
|
Wilsonatmd
Member
01-23-2001
| Wednesday, December 11, 2019 - 7:14 pm
Because of the situation, they’re pre-taping the reunion show next week..
https://ew.com/tv/2019/12/11/survivor-island-of-the-idols-finale-ruenion-pre-tape/
|
Pamy
Member
01-01-2002
| Wednesday, December 11, 2019 - 7:15 pm
oh wow!!
|
Pamy
Member
01-01-2002
| Wednesday, December 11, 2019 - 7:18 pm
something feels fishy about the whole thing. He is a talent agent and if he is an inappropriate toucher I am surprised woman havent come forward to say Me too. I just dont believe you start being inappropriate this late in life. If people in the real world start coming forward about him I will eat my words
|
Wilsonatmd
Member
01-23-2001
| Wednesday, December 11, 2019 - 7:31 pm
And Jeff talked to EW and basically said “no comment” (so you figure the lawyers are involved now- it’s been six months since filming, I wouldn’t be shocked if there were payments made and NDA’s signed...
|
Juju2bigdog
Member
10-27-2000
| Wednesday, December 11, 2019 - 7:32 pm
Kellee Kim statement posted to Twitter about 10-15 minutes ago:
https://twitter.com/kellee_kim/status/1204949876464742400
|
