| Author |
Message |
Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, November 17, 2019 - 11:06 am 
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Rvon
Member
12-11-2003
| Sunday, November 17, 2019 - 11:32 am
I am so confused with all of this. Wasn't Kellee, Missy and Liz all complaining about Dan's unwanted touches? But then Kellee never spoke to it at Tribal Council while the others did. But then I read folks on Twitter are saying she (Kellee) is a hero and that she and Janet should get the Sia Award (that's my name for it). If anyone should get it, it should be Janet. She was amazing in this episode and at Tribal Council. What did I miss? I feel like I am completely confused about the whole thing.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, November 17, 2019 - 11:48 am
Janet and Jamal should get the award.
Jamal's speech should be played over and over and over. 
The others stated that they exaggerated their claims. Kelle hasn't admitted that she exaggerated her claims (to my knowledge), but the clips shown make that clear. She does not deserve any kind of award. IMO.
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Rvon
Member
12-11-2003
| Sunday, November 17, 2019 - 11:52 am
I agree about Kellee. Just watched both Jamal's and Kellee's Ponderosa clip. I did not care for Kellee's at all. Felt like she was too full of herself. I LOVE JAMAL! He sounds like he would be an amazing friend. Love the song he and Jack created.
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Pamy
Member
01-01-2002
| Sunday, November 17, 2019 - 3:45 pm
Im rewatching the ep, not to look for stuff but because I like to watch again on the big tv in HD. Many weeks I watch east coast feed on my puter which isnt as beautiful. I will say that Survivor is probably the most beautiful of any show I watch on my HD tv.
Anyway, Kellee does say early on in this ep when talking to Missy that she told Dan to stop touching her and he continued.
Again, from what we have seen I feel like Dan is getting unfairly obliterated on the internet, but in Kellee's case, he really should have just left her alone. once someone tells you to stop, you stop. I did she the brushing her hair off her face, it was like a dad to a daughter BUT in Kellee's case she told him not to touch her.
I do feel like he is just a touchy person, sadly his job is talent agent and in this climate I fear his career will take a huge hit..rightfully or not.
Missy and Kellee both agree it's ok for Tommy to touch them. I believe, it's because Dan is older and it comes off creepy to them.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, November 17, 2019 - 3:57 pm
Thank you, Pamy. That's what I saw as well.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Sunday, November 17, 2019 - 3:59 pm
Yes, Jamal and Janet for the Si a Award.
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Strategist
Member
07-01-2014
| Sunday, November 17, 2019 - 4:16 pm
I can sign on for Jamal and Janet too.
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Pamy
Member
01-01-2002
| Sunday, November 17, 2019 - 4:17 pm
The fist pump and comment 'yeah, put that torch down' as Kellee's torch was snuffed was NOT a good look on Dan.
So bummed Kellee didnt play her idol, I dont know what she was thinking!
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Lakecat
Member
10-01-2006
| Sunday, November 17, 2019 - 4:45 pm
Dan is probably just forgetting since it’s a natural instinct. My sis in law suffered from pain all over. We forget she doesn’t like being touched and we sometimes grab her hand. Put our arm around her neck etc.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, November 17, 2019 - 5:13 pm
Kellee had TWO idols!
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Sunday, November 17, 2019 - 8:12 pm
Yes, I think many of us were intoning "PLAY AN IDOL" while Kellee eat on two!
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Brenda1966
Member
07-02-2002
| Monday, November 18, 2019 - 9:08 pm
Sorry I missed all of the discussion around this explosive episode. I felt bad for Kellee. It think it's obvious that something about Dan creeped her out and it was upsetting to her when he continued to be touchy to her when she asked him to stop. I don't think she exaggerated. And she may not even understand why Dan creeped her out and other men on the island didn't. I dance and there was once a dance partner that creeped me out. One of my friends was friends with him and he didn't creep her out at all. But to me he did. No explanation.
I was thoroughly disgusted with Missy and Elizabeth for stoking that fire for game play. It's unfair to Dan. And to Kellee and to Janet. It's dirty game play IMO.
And JAmal, he has rubbed me the wrong way some in this game but he is so articulate and "woke". I hope many have learned from his words. I was sorry to see him go. I was sorry to see Kellee go too. Arrogance to go home with 2 idols in your pocket!
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Mimi
Member
04-30-2009
| Monday, November 18, 2019 - 9:48 pm
I just read everything from the past show and don't remember who said what, but Dan was inappropriate in so many ways. Maybe he is touchy-feely but come on. I think he crossed the line.
Someone mentioned that they should give them some clothes. Why are the wearing underwear and not bathing suits like in the earlier seasons?
Finally I have lived in Europe and nobody I barely knew rubbed my arm, brushed hair off my face, randomly rubbed my toes, ankles, leg or other body part just because that's what they do.
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Dogdoc
Member
09-29-2001
| Tuesday, November 19, 2019 - 8:04 am
Good summary, Mimi
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, November 19, 2019 - 9:28 am
Brenda, if you watch the last episode, they show Kellee relating episodes and then they show the clips of the episodes with Dan - and you can see for yourself that she IS exaggerating those two episodes. That throws some doubt on her.
When someone creeps you out, but not someone else, the answers vary. It could be that subconsciously they remind you of someone you didn't like in your past, or that you had a bad experience with. Or it could mean the other person isn't sensitive to those kinds of things, or the person feels familiar to them in a positive way. No way of knowing.
And that in fact is part of the problem with having FEELINGS be the decider in what is considered "assault." If someone makes you uncomfortable, that's not a reason for the rest of us to condemn them. Feelings are important, but can be unreliable.
Mimi, my parents were immigrants, and yes, they were much more familiar with people, often hugging strangers. Europe is not a monolithic place, different countries are different in this regard.
But the people on Survivor ARE familiar with each other. They don't "barely know" each other, they are LIVING together, under the same roof, and in close proximity.
Again, what one person thinks of as "barely knowing" someone may be quite different from how someone else defines it.
I have a friend who treats EVERYONE like they are her very best friend ever. In fact, it is a lovely way of being, and people love her for it.
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Dogdoc
Member
09-29-2001
| Tuesday, November 19, 2019 - 11:12 am
I don't want anybody in my own family touching my toes or rubbing my arm.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, November 19, 2019 - 11:38 am
Dogdoc, and that is your prerogative!
However, if someone does do that, it doesn't mean they are creepy or committing assault. It just means that they don't have the same view as you.
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Kookliebird
Member
08-04-2005
| Tuesday, November 19, 2019 - 11:50 am
IMO, If you are on Survivor, the main goal is to not put a 'target' on your back. So, I can fully understand why Kellee backed off on her complaint to production. I hate to say that it's what women have always done for a variety of reasons in the workplace and in life. Survivor is really no different.
Here at work, we had a 'touchy' guy (older man), who also invaded your personal space.... most of the women thought he was creepy, but he was never reported to HR. It was just something that we discussed amongst ourselves, as our own little support group to vent. This had gone on for years with him. One day, I was talking with him about something. He touched my arm, I'd had enough, I dropped my arm to avoid the touch. We continued our work discussion and he put his hand on my shoulder, I dropped my shoulder in a very blatant move, but said nothing and continued talking about the work topic. A bit later, he stepped forward, I stepped back.... after going through this same exercise a few different conversations, he stopped touching me and invading my space going forward. I never had to say a word to him, as my actions told him more than words could say.
I told some of the other women here what I did and suggested they try the same thing. They did not, saying that they didn't want to embarrass him. They also continued to complain about his 'touching' until the day he retired, as it was one of those things never reported to HR. I never had another issue with him touching me.
Everybody has their own threshold on when touching becomes unwanted. Mine was reached.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, November 19, 2019 - 12:02 pm
Kooklie, I do agree about the concern about not putting a target on your back. It is a difficult position. In fact, it may be worse in Survivor, where the other players vote you out, not the HR department.
As I've noted however, what I don't agree with is that Kellee, on the two clips that we saw juxtaposed with what actually happened, she exaggerated what happened to make it sound worse than it was.
If you're going to go on Survivor, you have to do a lot of things you may not like. Conspire, lie, sleep in close proximity with a bunch of strangers, wear your underwear on national tv. I think if you are uncomfortable with physical closeness, you may want to consider that when you go on.
Nothing that was done was *sexual* in nature. Affectionate, crossing personal comfort zones, yes.... but not assault.
I will say that till the cows come home. It's not assault.
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Dogdoc
Member
09-29-2001
| Tuesday, November 19, 2019 - 1:46 pm
If Dan 'gets off' on rubbing arms and touching feet, then it is sexual in nature.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, November 19, 2019 - 1:52 pm
There is no indication or proof that he "gets off" on touching people in a fatherly way.
That is a HUGE assumption.
As noted, Janet is just as touchy feely, and so was Tommy (as expressed by the participants). Why is that only Dan is the one that is suspected of being sexual?
It's not fair.
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Dogdoc
Member
09-29-2001
| Tuesday, November 19, 2019 - 2:16 pm
I said "IF"
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Kookliebird
Member
08-04-2005
| Tuesday, November 19, 2019 - 2:50 pm
Technically, while we may not think so, Survivor would probably qualify as a workplace for the contestants as they are getting paid and pay taxes on their winnings (or earnings) during that 30-40 day timeframe. Basically, contestants are employees of CBS during that time. So, for me, I think that it only has to be 'unwanted' touching, not necessarily sexual in nature, to meet the standards of unwanted physical contact in the workplace. It does not matter what they are wearing. Just my opinion.....
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Maris
Member
03-27-2002
| Tuesday, November 19, 2019 - 4:19 pm
Kook, you have a point there. It is also why I think CBS spent so much time airing the issue and stating that they spoke to everyone, took Dan aside - getting ahead of any lawsuit. Especially, given CBS's history, Matt Lauer - need to demonstrate that they take any concerns seriously. Bet the cellphones were on overdrive re discussions with CBS lawyers.
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