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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Monday, January 27, 2020 - 12:47 am 
On rewatching:
. the Romulan woman has an Irish accent, it's just the man with the Northern English one. The couple have worked with him for 10 years.
. It's the 10yr anniversary of Romulus exploding, and that's why they wanted to interview him.
. Picard left the Enterprise to command the rescue armada, so must have been the Captain until 10 years ago too
. rogue synthetics attacked Mars, wiping out the rescue armada, but they don't know why. After that synthetic lifeforms were banned, Starfleet called off the rescue effort, and Picard quit Starfleet in disgust.
. I don't see dots on the forehead of the female Romulan home help, and no ridges/bumps. The man seems to have more going on up there but it was too dark to say what.
. "over two decades ago" Data sacrificed himself to save Picard (i.e. end of Nemesis)
. the Romulans who attacked Dahj did have bumpy foreheads.
. it did look like it could have been just acid that ate away Dahj, and then the bits flying thing I saw was caused by the gun exploding
. almost all of Data's neural net was "lost" when it went into B4
. if they had Data's neural net making a new one would be relatively straightforward. They need Data's brain to make a new synth like him. If there is a synth out there, then some essence of Data must be alive.
. it's labelled as a "Romulan reclamation site," where Narek (Treadaway) first meets "Dr Asher" (Dahj's twin - she does have a name!), and that's the Borg cube
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Monday, January 27, 2020 - 3:32 am
Gee, I totally went down a rabbit hole in my posts today. So much information AND misinformation is out there! It was driving me nuts! I'd learn something write a post and then find something else that contradicted it...several times.
On this week's episode of Graham Norton, Patrick Stewart said it had been 18 years since Nemesis, but online I saw it as 20 years or 18 years in other places. The exact year dates for different events seem to be a year or two different, depending on where you look, too.
I am now thinking the bumpy foreheads mean absolutely nothing. I read (and remembered) that they changed the Klingon's look between the original series and TNG and again in ST Discovery. The Romulans were different in the original series (no bumps) and TNG (many big bumps) as well. And in Nemesis, they had no bumps but they had scarred their foreheads with the "V" which looks a lot like the "V" ridge on the TNG Roms. I read in a couple of places that it's just that they want a newer, slightly different look so the Romulans get redesigned once in awhile. I think they just went back to no bumps.
Sidebar: They never explained why the Klingons in TNG looked so different than in the original series. I do remember in the DS9 episode when they went to the past to the original Tribbles episode, the Klingons didn't look anything like Worf. Someone (maybe Dax?) brought it up to Worf, asking him why and he just kind of looked ashamed and said "We don't like to talk about it". I thought that was a hysterical way to resolve that lack of continuity! Of course ST Discovery has totally changed them again to even biggers weird heads...and Discovery is set before the Original series....so chronologically the Klingons went from super bumpy to not bumpy to medium bumpy.
Go figure. Designers gotta design I guess. 
"In this timeline:
Nemesis happened.
10ish years later Romulus explodes because of the supernova."
I get that but how did Nemesis change this new alternate timeline? The super nova destroyed Romulus in BOTH timelines at the same point in time. Nero came back in time AFTER Romulus was destroyed. The only difference I see is that in the alt timeline that started in Nemesis, there was a big battle between the Enterprise and Nero....but if that is the only difference, why did they make such a big point about it being an alternate timeline now?
Was that just to allow the Chris Pine movies to veer into a different directions? The two following films (after the first Chris Pine reboot movie) were basically "monster of the week" episodes that had nothing to do with Romulans.
Hmmm....it just occurred to me that the Kahn episode was different than the original one in the 1960s, but again, nothing that altered the timeline that affected anything else.
Oh....now something else just occurred to me: Vulcan was destroyed in Nemesis. That would mean that Vulcan was destroyed AFTER Romulus was destroyed, even though Romulus was destroyed 129 later.
Is the big timeline changing event that Vulcan was destroyed?
Was the alternate timelinexaltered because they all knew in advance that that Romulus was going to be destroyed 129 years later?
Whatever it was, it didn't seem to come up in the 2nd and 3rd Chris Pine movies.
I have rabbit holed again. What am I missing?
------
Btw, I read they've had a lot of trouble getting the next ST reboot movie off the ground. They keep changing the producers and directors and the actors schedules have become an issue. At one point, it was said that Quentin Tarantino would direct the next one and Quentin announced it would be the first "R" rated Star Trek...but that didn't sit too well with the company that owns/controls the ST franchise. However I read somewhere else that he is not directing it but it will go into production late 2020 and could be released in 2022....that statement has made in Nov 2019, but things may have changed since then. They seem to have gone radio silent...or I just got too rabbit holed/scattered to find more current info!
Long past my bedtime. Goodnight all.
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Rissa
Member
03-19-2006
| Monday, January 27, 2020 - 5:29 am
Rabbit holes. Lol ok, well if Nero destroyed Vulcan in 2258 and Romulus wasn’t destroyed until 2389 then that’s over a century for the Romulan relationship with Star Fleet to be completely changed? I can’t imagine it didn’t put them on their heels to know what one of their own had done? How did that affect Spock’s ability to be a liaison? Did knowing the future not give Romulus a heck of a lot of time to get out of dodge?
So we know nothing about what the relationship was like for
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Mizinvanccouver
Member
02-21-2003
| Monday, January 27, 2020 - 9:19 am
Just caught up on this thread and my head is reeling. LOL
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Monday, January 27, 2020 - 9:25 am
Nemesis didn't change the regular timeline, but I presume you're asking about the first Chris Pine movie. The first Chris Pine movie also did not change the regular timeline.
Nero going back in time at some point after the supernova destroyed Romulus created the alternate timeline that Chris Pine inhabits (and although I doubt they'll go there, we don't know when that time was, he had to perfect his craft, it might have taken him years to be able to "avenge" Spock and Nero might not have left the main timeline in the current "regular" timeline we see with ST:Picard).
I the Chris Pine movie producers decided on an alt-timeline story for the new STs solely so they can do what they want with the characters and not have fans say that doesn't work because on TOS s3E7 so and so did such and such.
But as Rissa mentions, it would have had huge ramifications that they could bring in if they wanted to. But would complicated movies sell as well? They probably consider that.
Vulcan was destroyed in the alt-timeline BEFORE Romulus was destroyed but only BECAUSE Romulus was destroyed. In the new ST movies (alt-timeline) Romulus hasn't been destroyed, but presumably one day (approx 125 years later) will be, unless someone has worked out how to stop the supernova by then. This time they will at least have forewarning to evacuate, if nothing else.
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Rissa
Member
03-19-2006
| Monday, January 27, 2020 - 9:28 am
Just noticed my editing skills before coffee leave something to be desired. Lol
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Monday, January 27, 2020 - 1:30 pm
I had the same problem!
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Monday, January 27, 2020 - 5:20 pm
" The first Chris Pine movie also did not change the regular timeline. "
Nero showed up in the past TWICE in the first Chris Pine movie. The first time Nero appeared was in the beginning of the first Chris Pine film, as Kirk was being born. Nero appeared and Kirk's father, Chris Hemsworth, died in the battle, never even having seen his newborn son.
Starting at that point (in the beginning of the first Chris Pine film), the ST timeline became an alternate timeline...UNLESS Shatner-Kirk's back story included his father being killed by a mysterious unknown bad guy in a giant ship that appeared out of nowhere and killed his father and destroyed the ship where baby Kirk was born. When I saw the first Pine film, I just assumed that must've been a part of Shatner-Kirk's backstory. I don't remember ever hearing that, but that doesn't mean it wasn't part of his backstory.
Then Nero showed up again 23-28 years later (or whatever Kirk's age was in the first reboot movie)...and battled with the grown up newborn Kirk, now an adult known as (acting) Captain James T Kirk and a young Spock.
One of the links I read said when Spock used the red matter to stop the supernova, it failed to stop Romulus from destruction but the resulting wormhole threw both Nero and Spock 129 years into the past. That means Romulus had been destroyed....in the future. They never went to the future to stop that from happening, so it happened and that's part of the new timeline
BUT...If Spock and Nero had been thrown back in time by the wormhole like I read, how is it that Nero was able to make TWO trips back...once at Kirk's birth and again when adult Kirk behind the helm of the Enterprise?
"In the new ST movies (alt-timeline) Romulus hasn't been destroyed, but presumably one day (approx 125 years later) will be, unless someone has worked out how to stop the supernova by then."
Romulus HAS been destroyed in the ST Picard series. I have been under the assumption that the new Picard series is in the same alt-timeline that began in the first reboot movie, right?
But if the Chris Pine movies had stopped the supernova 120+ years later (pre ST Picard), it would've created a paradox, right? If they stop the supernova, then Nero and Spock would've never been in the past in the first place...and Kirk's Daddy Hemsworth could still be alive.
I don't think they'd start the ST Picard series based on the original timeline because they don't know what will happen in any of the subsequent Chris Pine films, any one of which could have an event that greatly impacts the circumstances of ST Picard.
The fact that Picard has friendly, smiling Romulan servants made me think they were refugees who found a nice peaceful life on earth after their planet was destroyed. (although it seemed to me to be a bit of a cliche to make the once feared refugees into "the help" at a honored human's home.)
I'm thinking I just need to wait for more information from ST Picard. Looks like no more reboot films for at least a year or two.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Monday, January 27, 2020 - 5:49 pm
I have been under the assumption that the new Picard series is in the same alt-timeline that began in the first reboot movie, right?
I've been under the assumption that the new Picard series is in the ORIGINAL regular timeline as the tv shows.... mostly because it's tv and I thought the movies did their own thing.
And btw, I'm calling the original timeline the one with the tv shows, TOS, TNG, and the movies with cast from those. I'm calling the Chris Pine movies the alternate timeline. Are you using them the other way round?
Nero only went back in time once as far as I remember, when it arrived when Kirk was about to be born, then it just hung around marauding or whatever a ship of baddies does, until later in the story. Or at least I thought so. Have a read of this (and there's an interesting bit in the middle about a deleted scene that reveals where they intended Nero's ship to be) and see if it makes sense:
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Narada
It says Spock came out of the hole at a later time than Nero. For some reason I thought Spock had been on that ice planet since he arrived when Nero did, but it's been a while since I watched the movie so I'm probably wrong.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Monday, January 27, 2020 - 5:52 pm
Kurtzman confirmed ST:Picard is in the what he calls "prime" timeline, which is the tv show one. (They call the other timeline the Kelvin timeline.)
quote:As Kurtzman told GamesRadar: "[Picard is] in the Prime timeline, we're not in the Kelvin timeline. But the thing that was interesting about that movie is it was the one element of the film that's still in the Prime timeline, because it was the supernova, the destruction of Romulus, and Spock's jump [back in time] that created Kelvin."
https://www.newsweek.com/star-trek-picard-timeline-new-series-fit-next-generation-films-2399-romulans-1483629
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Rissa
Member
03-19-2006
| Monday, January 27, 2020 - 5:54 pm
Kitt, that’s my understanding as well (re Nero hanging around)
I am operating on the assumption that the Chris Pine alternate timeline will apply to Picard but we haven’t seen enough to know either way I guess.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Monday, January 27, 2020 - 5:58 pm
See the quote above, Rissa. Kurtzman has now confirmed the show is with the original timeline. Makes it easier because then the movies can do what they want, and they won't have to adjust ST:Picard.
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Rissa
Member
03-19-2006
| Monday, January 27, 2020 - 6:03 pm
Ugh, was posting at same time, lol
Will make my head spin when the next movie comes out.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Monday, January 27, 2020 - 6:31 pm
If they have any sense, the movies will stay away from anything with long time ramifications, it's just all too confusing otherwise.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Monday, January 27, 2020 - 10:37 pm
Kitt, if that's what TPTB are saying, I'll accept it but it just seems confusing to me.
It does make sense that Nero hung around for 20 some odd years rather than time traveling back twice, since it was an accidental trip caused by a wormhole in the first place. What was most confusing was that both times Nero appeared we saw that his squid shaped ship kind of appearing out of a shiny white cloud ring...like it was coming from another dimension or wormhole or whatever. Since I remembered it arriving the same way twice, I assumed they were both time trips.
I found this in google images:
link
It's the best pic of Nero's arrival that I could find quickly. Maybe this just how his squidship looked coming out of warp speed or something.
"And btw, I'm calling the original timeline the one with the tv shows, TOS, TNG, and the movies with cast from those. I'm calling the Chris Pine movies the alternate timeline. Are you using them the other way round?"
I'll use TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager, and Discovery for the TV shows. (I didn't mention "Enterprise" with Captain Archer because that series seems to be out on it's own where no one notices it anymore. )
Oh yeah, and for me, I'll be calling the Chris Pine movies "The Reboot" from now onwhich (to me) implies an alternate ongoing storyline anyhow. Besides, the other series do have their own occasional alternate timelines and universes!) If the movies, starting with the first Chris Pine one, are the only "episodes" of the Star Trek Universe that took off on their own personal alternate timeline, then thinking of it as "reboot" will just be easier for to remember what I'm talking about.
I think I'll just leave Enterprise and Discovery out of it until they establish some kind of context for them in these multiple versions of the beginning of the Star Trek Universe(s).
Until I learn otherwise, I'll just do what I've been doing....forgetting about Enterprise and accepting Discovery on it's own merits without trying to connect any of the details with the known Star Trek Universe.
Kitt,
I do have a 3 part question that I'm too tired to look up (and I have confused myself a great deal with ST time and events lately!):
1. Vulcan was destroyed by Nero in the first reboot movie, right?
2. That means Vulcan was destroyed in the alternate timeline, right?
3. That means Vulcan is Likely still in existence and thriving in the ST Picard series, right?
Hoping for a clean answer that doesn't make me raise more questions. I am exhausted! 
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Tuesday, January 28, 2020 - 12:16 am
1) Yes, in the first reboot movie Nero destroyed Vulcan and made Spock watch.
2) So Vulcan was destroyed in the alternate timeline.
3) There is nothing at all to suggest that Vulcan is not alive and well in the Prime timeline and therefore in the ST:Picard series.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Tuesday, January 28, 2020 - 2:13 am
Thank you, Kitt!
Now the alternative timeline finally makes sense.
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Mameblanche
Member
08-24-2002
| Tuesday, January 28, 2020 - 7:30 am
SFJF FYI: Graham Norton shows in Canada on BBC are at least 2 or 3 YEARS behind their original airings.
Not sure why that is, but I find it annoying.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Tuesday, January 28, 2020 - 9:26 am
BBC America has the latest series on about a two week delay. Sometimes. Sometimes it randomly seems to forget about it. But the Patrick Stewart episode it just showed was a new one. (It also edits bits out, grr, but that’s another story.)
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Tuesday, January 28, 2020 - 12:38 pm
I'm pretty sure the G Norton show I saw the other day was a new show...IMDB shows it as new and my TIVO is set to only record new episodes of this show.
LINK
It was season 26, episode 16 and Stewart was promoting his new show, Star Trek Picard. I was surprised when he said it had been 18 years since Nemesis, because I had been doing research on that durn timeline and Stewart contradicted much of what I saw online about how long Picard is set after Nemesis.
ETA - I believe I saw it on Friday, Jan 24...which was just one week after it's listed airdate.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Tuesday, January 28, 2020 - 1:11 pm
Yes it was new. I watch the UK version (because the BBC America one edits it (the grr I mentioned!)) and it was on not last Friday, but the one before.
He did seem to get some of the dates wrong, or at least slightly different to the ones that they are saying online.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Tuesday, January 28, 2020 - 2:27 pm
I could've sworn it was this last Friday. Even my link showed it aired on the 17th, the Friday before! I guess I just forgot what day it was.
Getting old is a b-word.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Tuesday, January 28, 2020 - 3:33 pm
sorry, it's not you, it's me being confusing. I'm sure you did watch it on BBC America this last Friday, the 24th, but I find the UK shows online and watch them just after they air there, so I saw it the weekend before that.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - 4:35 pm
Kitt,
And there it is....the old "It's not you, it's me" conversation...
Yes, I found a schedule that shows that the Graham Norton episode that's scheduled to air the week after the episode with Patrick Stewart, is airing this coming Friday, the day after tomorrow. Robert Downy Jr is a guest on it.
Thanks for letting me know that I have a couple more brains cells than I thought I had yesterday.
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Mameblanche
Member
08-24-2002
| Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - 5:33 pm
I'm jealous that you guys have access to the new G N stuff.
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