| Author |
Message |
Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Saturday, January 25, 2020 - 3:28 pm 
Great info on the borg named Hugh....but did you know about the actor who played him?
His name is Jonathan Del Arco and he played the funny gay coroner named Dr Fernando Morales on both The Closer and Major Crimes. LINK
He's gay in real life and is a gay rights activist who is a guest speaker for the Human Rights Organization.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Saturday, January 25, 2020 - 3:50 pm
Kitt said "We should start a new thread for Star Trek Picard, I have lots of questions!!"
I agree so here it is! I just wish I'd made it sooner. Before watching the premiere I went into the Sc-Fi thread to see what was trending there and learned who the mysterious girl was.
I usually avoid show threads with episodes I haven't yet seen yet, and I just wasn't thinking when I read it.
STAR TREK: PICARD
https://www.cbs.com/shows/star-trek-picard/about/
Star Trek Picard is engaging, fun, and unpredictable so far. The cast is amazing. Harry Treadaway is a Romulan! (Treadaway played the serial killer on "Mr Mercedes" and Dr Frankenstein on "Penny Dreadful"). And two of my favorite characters, Seven of Nine and Hugh, are there too. I hope The Doctor shows up...no not Doctor Who, the holographic one! 
I love seeing actors I like popping up in completely different roles like this. 
I guess it's up to the mods if they want to move the discussion from the Sci-Fi thread to this one.
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Roteach
Member
06-01-2003
| Saturday, January 25, 2020 - 5:05 pm
So far, I am loving it. The only confusing thing is that it looks like his Romulan house staff have Trill markings on their foreheads.
I am pleasantly surprised since for the year leading up to its debut, it seems like all the podcasts and articles have been trashing it to one degree or another. It's so good to see positive reviews now. I am looking forward to the second episode. I might just have to set up a reminder on my Echo so I won't get behind on my viewing
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Saturday, January 25, 2020 - 5:10 pm
I’ll move the posts over when I get the chance.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Saturday, January 25, 2020 - 5:47 pm
Thanks Jimmer!
Roteach, I heard the same but I didn't read any the bad articles. I can't imagine why the critics would think it's not a well made, unpredictable show with high production values, action, humor and drama.
I expected a lot less than it was, in fact. I thought it mainly took place at his vineyard home and was more of an "after retirement drama", but it's as much of a fun ride as TNG or Voyager, my two favorite series of the franchise.
If I had to compare this premiere to the premiere of Star Discovery....then Star Trek Picard would win. Discovery was WAY too dark and serious their first premiere (and the whole first season) but it was still a Star Trek so I stuck with it. It got much better and easier to follow in season 2.
Which reminds me...I read (and may have posted it somewhere around here) that they renewed Picard for a second season before it even premiered.
Whoop Whoop!
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Saturday, January 25, 2020 - 6:49 pm
Thanks Sanfran!
My questions so far:
. why do the Romulan house staff have Northern English accents?
. what did the baddies throw on Dash (sp? the daughter) and why did it dissolve her? Was it meant to be some sort of nanobot or something that ate synthetic material? Did they explain and I missed it?
Was Dash's twin's friend meant to look exactly like Star Trek Discovery's Spock? Is he meant to be Vulcan or Romulan?
Why is B4 in a box?  That dashed the hopes of so many fans who thought B4 would at least have some semblance of Data by now. In fact when I first saw Data in Picard's dreams and he seemed overly familiar with Picard (compared to my memory of him) I thought maybe it was B4.
Picard said it was 20 years since Nemesis. Given the slow aging they were meant to have in those days, Picard seems to have aged a lot.
Does Picard have that Irumodic syndrome that he had in Nemesis, and will it play into the show?
And after reading Sanfran's post I have a couple more:
What part is my sweet Hugh Borg playing? I looked for him in the last episode but didn't see him, was he there?
Which part is Mr Mercedes playing? IMDb says Narek, but as I am no good at names that didn't help me!
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Roteach
Member
06-01-2003
| Saturday, January 25, 2020 - 9:35 pm
Sanfranjoshfan, part of the criticism was the way the original showrunners/producers were doing things I think. Several producers were replaced and I guess things are running smoothly. I loved watching the after show with Wil Wheaton (Wesley) as the host.
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Roteach
Member
06-01-2003
| Saturday, January 25, 2020 - 9:40 pm
Kitt,the baddies spewed acid on Dajh which caused her to disintegrate. B4 is in a box because at the end of Star Trek Nemesis(I think) he was taken apart. I thought the female on the house staff had more of an Irish lilt to her voice. Heck, blame it on the Universal Translator I guess. My wonder was why they seem to have the Trill dots on their faces if they are Romulan. The guy did look like Discovery's Spock.I had forgotten about the Irumodic symdrome. I wonder if our Hugh is reprising that role? If he's still part Borg, they don't age very much. Heck, Jeri Ryan looks pretty much as if she had just stepped off Voyager.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Saturday, January 25, 2020 - 9:52 pm
Posts moved over from the general science fiction discussion thread.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Saturday, January 25, 2020 - 10:11 pm
Roteach, I'm pretty sure at the end of Nemesis, B4 was "alive" and humming to a song that Data would have known (but B4 hadn't been taught). In this episode they said something like he wasn't like Data, or hadn't remembered much of Data's memories, but I wonder how he got from being Picard's buddy to being in a box, even with the ban on androids.
I thought they mentioned acid, but it seemed to bounce about and cause her cells to jump (like when the scarab beetles in The Mummy ate someone), so I thought it must have been more.
I looked through the photos at IMDb to see if I could find a close up of the Romulan assistants (I couldn't) but I'll look for the Trill dots next time.
I did see that Harry Treadway (Mr Mercedes) is Dajh's twin's friend who looks like Spock though. (And is meant to be a Romulan, not a Vulcan.)
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Sunday, January 26, 2020 - 2:58 am
Kitt,
". why do the Romulan house staff have Northern English accents? "
The same reason that most shows about ancient Rome seem to have British accents!
". what did the baddies throw on Dash (sp? the daughter) and why did it dissolve her? Was it meant to be some sort of nanobot or something that ate synthetic material? Did they explain and I missed it?"
I don't think they explained it but I just assumed it was a sci-fi thing that may be explained (or not) in a future episode.
"Was Dash's twin's friend meant to look exactly like Star Trek Discovery's Spock? Is he meant to be Vulcan or Romulan?"
I didn't notice the resemblance to OS ("Original Spock) } but I did notice Treadaway's two front bunny teeth that reminded me of Bugs Bunny! 
"Why is B4 in a box?"
I'm guessing it will have something to do with the plot in an upcoming episode. All this talk about creating positronic brains and synthetic beings seems to be pointing a light onto where this season is going....if they find out how to make a positronic brain as good as Data's, they can put one in B4 and then transfer Data's mind and memories into him. (just speculation...)
"Picard said it was 20 years since Nemesis. Given the slow aging they were meant to have in those days, Picard seems to have aged a lot. "
Patrick Stewart is 79 years old! I don't think they really had the choice to bring in a younger Patrick Stewart to play this part.
I thought he said it was 20 years since he left Star Fleet. I was wondering what the timeline was because I realized that we never saw him leaving Star Fleet. They also mentioned an event when all the synthetics started killing everyone. As far as I remember from TNG and the movies, there has never been a scene like that. Data wouldn't have been in the shows anymore if synthetics were banned like they talked about.
Yes Picard has aged a lot but to me it didn't seem too out of sync with real aging. And I recently did something I've wanted to do for years and I finally started it and finished it in about 10-12 days. I watched every Star Trek movie from 1979's Star Trek the Motion Picture to 2016's Star Trek Beyond in chronological order. I just saw Star Trek Nemesis last week. I thought Patrick Stewart was looking old then.
Btw, I never realized that Tom Hardy played the nemesis/villain in Star Trek Nemesis until I rewatched it.
"Does Picard have that Irumodic syndrome that he had in Nemesis, and will it play into the show?"
I forgot about him having that disease, but didn't he have that back in the TNG series? I don't remember it being mentioned in ST Nemesis.
"What part is my sweet Hugh Borg playing? I looked for him in the last episode but didn't see him, was he there?"
He hasn't appeared yet.
"Which part is Mr Mercedes playing? IMDb says Narek, but as I am no good at names that didn't help me!"
Apparently he's playing the
he-looks-just-like-the-new-Spock character. That Romulan hanging out with Dasj (sp?) in what appears to be a Borg cube being rebuilt is Harry Treadaway!
Yikes! Seeing the Borg cube was the best moment for me....it added a whole new level to the plot for me. The borg always make for the best ST episodes or movies.
-----
Now that I finished this post (before reading the subsequent posts) it appears most of your questions had already been answered!
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Sunday, January 26, 2020 - 3:01 am
"I thought the female on the house staff had more of an Irish lilt to her voice. "
Roteach...I heard Irish lilt, too. It was very obvious to me...maybe she learned English in Ireland before moving to France.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Sunday, January 26, 2020 - 3:03 am
"Roteach, I'm pretty sure at the end of Nemesis, B4 was "alive" and humming to a song that Data would have known (but B4 hadn't been taught)."
I can attest to that. I saw that film so recently that when I read your line about the song, the damn tuned popped back into my head and now it won!t go away.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Sunday, January 26, 2020 - 3:10 am
" (And is meant to be a Romulan, not a Vulcan.)"
I was having problems sorting the Roms with the Vuls, too.
I finally decided that they look pretty much the same except Vulcans have straight bangs and smooth foreheads but Romulans have pointy banks and bumpy foreheads....oh yeah and Romulans smile a lot!
When I first saw Picard's Romulan servants smiling at each other I thought they were Vulcans and wondered if they had overcome their obsessive need to not show emotion in the previous decades. But it soon became clear I just had my species mixed up.
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Roteach
Member
06-01-2003
| Sunday, January 26, 2020 - 10:50 am
The song B4 was singing was Blue Skies. Data sang it at Riker's and Troi's wedding.
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Roteach
Member
06-01-2003
| Sunday, January 26, 2020 - 10:51 am
I think I need to watch Nemesis. I think I have seen it but I'm not sure.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Sunday, January 26, 2020 - 1:24 pm
The official spelling for the "Dash" character seems to be Dahj. I'm not sure if the twin has the same name, seeing as she's also an android (at least I assume she is), but there isn't a second name mentioned on IMDb.
Yes, not Nemesis, but it was the TNG finale, All Good Things, where they really explored Picard's Irumodic syndrome. I think Dr crusher had mentioned it before after some genetic test but they didn't know if it would come out in him, but then in his future self in the finale it had. In Nemesis I think alt-Picard (yes, Tom Hardy, he looked so different then, took me a few takes!) mentioned it as something he'd had removed from his genetic makeup??? Not sure, but there was some mention of it.
Yes on the Romulans having bumps, I'd forgotten that. Good cue!
The Borg cube at the end!! That was the first question I had but then forgot to even include it on my list! What is that about!! And is there a Borg Queen on there that Treadaway ("Narek") is working with? Is it run by Hugh Borg and his renegade Borg?
The renegade Borg were featured in an episode of one of the shows or movies too. Can't think which. Was it a female borg? I think the plan to have them think independently had worked, but somehow it had had some unintended consequences. I'll have to see what I can find on that.
I'm going to have to watch the episode again, I think, to get another look at the things we've discussed. I finally succumbed to CBS All Access at the beginning of the year, when we decided to binge The Good Fight and saw a new season of that coming up, with the two Star Treks.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Sunday, January 26, 2020 - 4:15 pm
I remembered something from the premiere.
When Picard was being interviewed by the reporter, he talked about having left Star Fleet 20 years ago....but it was after some cataclysmic explosion that destroyed the Romulan home world and that Picard had to evacuate and relocate something like 800,000,000 Romulans. It was during those events that the synthetics started killing humans. Afterwards, all synthetics were banned.
I don't remember ever seeing that event in the movies or on TNG. I do remember in one movie (Nemesis? or ST Beyond?)that the Vulcan home world was destroyed and Spock found another planet to start a new colony with the survivors.
Anyhow that event that destroyed the Romulan home world had to have taken place after the timeline of Nemesis....and I doubt it was the following day or something so I'd guess years after.
I'm thinking that Picard may have remained in Star Fleet for another 10 or more years after Nemesis and the event that caused him to leave. Just guessing on the years, but this information gap might be the reason that Picard is so old now.
Just guessing...I may have forgotten some little detail that totally blows up my hypothesis and vague memories of what I do and do not remember.
As for Data's status. I am pretty sure they said that Data's mind and memories were transferred into B4 but B4 was never like Data because his positronic brain was not as advanced as Data's was.
I think showing that B4 remembered Data's song (yes, "Blue Skies" is still stuck in MY head, too!) at the end of Nemesis was to let us know that Data still exists within B4....even though B4 isn't equipped to access it all. It would be like installing the latest OS X for Mac on a 20 year old Mac. The software could be intact on the old Mac's HD but the old Mac wouldn't be able to use it. Likewise Data's mind might be intact on B4's P-brain (as in "positronic brain" lol) but his obsolete P-brain can only access a few parts of Data's memories and nothing more.
Since ST Picard has superior and advanced synthetics, I'm guessing that one of these new synthetics could handle Data's entire P-brain. Add into the equation that it appears the Borg may be involved...who are also known to have developed a super cybernetic hive mind, might be a clue regarding the advanced development of the P-brain since Nemesis or since the Romulan planet destroying event, whichever came last.
Bottom line - Data's mind still exists inside B4. The world now has advanced synthetics that can likely handle Data's full mental data.
Btw, I don't think they are actually "androids" anymore. I got the impression that Dahj was a living breathing individual but had programming hidden in her brain that only activated when she needed it.
Here in the current world of 2020 we can use medical 3D printers to print skin for grafts and other medical uses. I would think of an android as being a robot that appears human....but a "synthetic" person may simply be a person created in a lab but who is still 100% organic.
I guess I'm just sharing my theory that synthetic people could handle Data's P-brain now.....and if they put Data's mind into a synthetic human, they could use one that looks just like Data but older. He would then be what he's always wanted to be - human made of flesh and bone, albeit made synthetically - and he could keep his old mind and memories.
JUST a theory.....
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Rissa
Member
03-19-2006
| Sunday, January 26, 2020 - 4:22 pm
I have a notoriously bad memory for films, tend to remember the overall affect it had on me rather than specifics. But.... wasn’t the plot of the newest Star Trek series (the one with Chris Pine) focussed on Romulus being threatened by a super nova? Spock tried to prevent the event but instead made it happen sooner and there was not time to evacuate the planet? That’s why that one Romulan was so I tend on revenge? Perhaps there is a shadow of that plot being adopted for this series?
That’s the same movie you are referencing SanFran. The Romulan took revenge by destroying the Vulcan home planet.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Sunday, January 26, 2020 - 4:29 pm
"The official spelling for the "Dash" character seems to be Dahj. I'm not sure if the twin has the same name, seeing as she's also an android (at least I assume she is), but there isn't a second name mentioned on IMDb."
I have noticed that sometimes characters aren't listed on imdb if they haven't yet appeared on a show.
I checked imdb for Dahj and it's not just "Dahj"
It's listed as:
"Isa Briones Dahj / ..."
When imdb has an actor playing multiple roles that's how they are presented, the actor's name and next to it, the character names divided by slash marks. (much simpler than listing each character on a different line with the same actor)
Looks like Isa Briones is listed to be playing two different characters, but the second one is yet to be revealed.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Sunday, January 26, 2020 - 4:49 pm
"The renegade Borg were featured in an episode of one of the shows or movies too. Can't think which. Was it a female borg? I think the plan to have them think independently had worked, but somehow it had had some unintended consequences. I'll have to see what I can find on that. "
In Star Trek First Contact, the borg queen was there to assimilate earth in the past and she tried to tempt Data to come over to the dark side and join the borg willingly by giving him a couple of patches of real skin with real feeling like a regular human. He had a patch on his face and one on his left arm. The arm had hair on it and when the queen blew on it, it gave data shivers of sensation. I believe this episode was the last time the borg were seen in the movies and TV series.
You may be thinking of Lor on TNG who had a little personal army of a dozen or so rogue borg, who battled it out with some of the Enterprise crew on an uninhabited planet but they didn't invade a civilization or anything as far as I remember.
Cool...I found a link for that episode...it's the ep that also had Steven Hawking on it!
LINK to wikipedia
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Gee, watching all the ST movies was "space homework" that really helped me understand the Star Trek world a little better.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Sunday, January 26, 2020 - 5:04 pm
"I looked through the photos at IMDb to see if I could find a close up of the Romulan assistants (I couldn't)"
I googled "Treadaway Star Trek Picard" (without the quotes), and clicked on "Images" and found this:
https://www.cbs.com/shows/star-trek-picard/cast/216323/
Treadaway looks great but I couldn't find a pic of him as Narek with his forehead exposed. He also doesn't have the pointy bangs....but a huge shock of bangs that cover his forehead....maybe he's a human/Romulan hybrid or maybe he's allergic to the glue for the forehead prosthetics....
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Sunday, January 26, 2020 - 8:36 pm
"But.... wasn’t the plot of the newest Star Trek series (the one with Chris Pine) focussed on Romulus being threatened by a super nova?"
I got really confused trying to answer your question but then I googled Star Trek 2009 and found a wikipedia link with what (I hope) is your answer. I just watched this movie last week but this link tells me a HUGE detail that I missed in the film.
Star Trek (film)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"Star Trek is a 2009 American science fiction action film directed by J. J. Abrams and written by Roberto Orci and Alex Kurtzman. It is the eleventh film in the Star Trek film franchise, and is also a reboot that features the main characters of the original Star Trek television series portrayed by a new cast, as the first in the rebooted film series. The film follows James T. Kirk (Chris Pine) and Spock (Zachary Quinto) aboard the USS Enterprise as they combat Nero (Eric Bana), a Romulan from their future who threatens the United Federation of Planets. The story takes place in an alternate reality[3][4] because of time travel by both Nero and the original Spock (Leonard Nimoy). The alternate timeline was created in an attempt to free the film and the franchise from established continuity constraints while simultaneously preserving original story elements}."}
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek_(film)
LOTS more information about this storyline at the above link....it explains a lot I didn't pick up on!
Exactly what was changed in the timeline?
It seems they are saying that since this is a "reboot", the timeline of the "Chris Pine as Kirk" plots can now deviate from the timeline previously set by the original series and movies.
I am now wondering what year that 129 year time jump happened....I found a wiki Star Trek timeline that's hard to understand, but I think I figured out something, time-wise.
Star Trek (2009) [the reboot] is set in 2258
LINK
Star Trek Nemesis was set in 2379
LINK
Romulan homeworld destroyed in 2387 (129 years after Kirk becomes Captain of the Enterprise)
LINK
Star Trek Picard set in 2399 (12 years after the Romulan homeworld was destroyed)
LINK
Oh yeah...Picard's age explained:
"One interesting point is the difference between the age of Picard on the show and the age of the actor, Patrick Stewart. TNG debuted in 1987, when Patrick Stewart was 47. It takes place in the fictional year 2364 (Jean-Luc Picard was born in 2305). So in 1987, a 47-year-old actor was playing a 59-year-old starship captain. Today in 2019, a 78-year-old actor will be playing a Starfleet Admiral who is ~94, given that Picard is set in the closing days of the 25th century."
https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/291940-first-trailer-arrives-for-upcoming-star-trek-picard-on-cbs
(The explanation was a bit weird since they were mixing up Trek Years with RL Years!)
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Okay now after all that I found a link with answers but partway down it said there are some spoilers. I don't know if they meant for the whole season or just the premiere because I stopped reading it at that point.
I saw that it described the connection between Star Trek (2009) the reboot to ST Picard.
Here is that article: Read at your own risk but please don't discuss any spoilers here! Please with sugar on top!
How 'Picard' Reshapes the 'Star Trek' Galaxy
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/star-trek-picard-premieres-burning-questions-explained-1272180
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PS - Before I did this research, I had no idea that the Star Trek (2009) movie reboot caused a split in the timeline and that since then, the story will be continuing in that alternate timeline!
But I still don't really get what the change was that cause a new alternate timeline to start.
Did Nero and Spock actually cause the Romulan homeworld to be destroyed when they were thrown back 129 years? I thought Spock's lack of stopping it was what caused them to be thrown back to 129 years.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Sunday, January 26, 2020 - 11:36 pm
(Yes, Lor, and his Borg friends... that was the episode I was thinking of!)
Sanfran, Nero going back in time caused the alternative timeline. There might be a nuance of your last paragraph in your last post I'm not getting. You might find some answers clicking around the link below (as my memory's not good enough to remember details!):
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Alternate_reality
I'm about to watch Picard again, if I can stay awake. I'm pretty sure the reference to 20 years was from when Picard said Data sacrificed himself to save him (i.e. Nemesis), but I will check.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Sunday, January 26, 2020 - 11:56 pm
Hubby (who's good with movie memories) says:
In this timeline:
Nemesis happened.
10ish years later Romulus explodes because of the supernova.
The Chris Pine movies are instigated by that event, i.e. as Nero went back in time to get revenge on Spock because he thought Spock should have stopped the supernova that blew up his home planet and his family. (We don't need to know this to watch Picard.)
The supernova event caused a huge humanitarian tragedy and Starfleet selects Picard to lead the rescue/relocation efforts.
Then the event happened with the synthetics, somehow/somewhy Starfleet stops the rescue efforts for the Romulans (we're fuzzy on why, will correct as necessary after reviewing), Picard is upset, and that's what we're seeing with the Picard show.
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