| Author |
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Monday, April 30, 2018 - 1:45 pm 
Thanks for that info, Kitt. It makes me feel a little better, because they had to write him out.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Monday, April 30, 2018 - 1:51 pm
Okay, I found this on the title card "story." Not much there yet.
https://heavy.com/entertainment/2018/04/fear-the-walking-dead-title-cards/
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Monday, April 30, 2018 - 2:30 pm
Sorry for the long post...I got on a roll. This has been a great start to this season of FTWD!!
"In Episode 2 they labelled the two story lines as "Before" (the story where they're at the Diamond) and "Now" (the story where they met Morgan). Nick was killed in the Now, but is still alive in the Before."
Thanks, Kitt! I totally missed that in ep 2.
So that means "Now" on FTWD is officially the same "Now" as on TWD...because FTWD did a big forward time jump to synch up with TWD timeline.
I think my confusion lay in not knowing which timeline FTWD was based in at this point.
"It really did sound in TD as if Nick had finished filming, so I wonder if they filmed the "Before" scenes in sequence before they filmed the "Now" scenes."
We've already seen Nick in the "before" scenes at the arena so there's no reason to think we won't see how his whole story plays out. I believe all the scenes for this season have already been filmed in whatever order made the most logistical sense on the set. I think it's rare that tv shows films scenes in chronological sequence because it's too expensive to set up a scene for something, then move all the cameras and stuff to the next location for the next scene, and then return to the first set again to film a new scene.
Anyhow, I'm thinking the whole season will be "Now" mixed with "Then".
"It bugs me that we're going to see the Nick storyline play out in the Before, and come to a nondescript end, presumably just before the Now starts."
I'd say, don't assume this season ends with Nick's death because he died in the "Now" timeline. I think the "Now" story will continue forward starting when Nick died. The "Then" story will be a lot of flashbacks that show us what happened during the time lag. Most likely, by the end of this season, the "Then" story will be finished....but the "Now" story will have progressed forward also.
"But I still think (maybe because of the flower) because of Nick's rage, that he killed Ennis because Ennis killed Madison, and that's why we don't see her in the present scenes."
Karuuna, it has occurred to me that Ennis may have killed everybody at the arena except for, Alicia, Luciana, Strand, and Nick...
Those 4 FTWD folks seemed to me to be abnormally bent on revenge. The way Alicia is fixated on finding where that vulture flag came from seems desperate and full of absolute rage. I don't think any of them have ever just attacked presumably innocent strangers like they attacked Morgan and crew. That's why I think everyone else might be gone. I also think whatever happened at the arena was in the immediate past and Alicia and crew were chasing the vultures, not just hunting them down days or weeks later.
FTWD may be a whole different show after this season. If everyone else is dead and gone aside from Alicia's crew, that means both TWD and FTWD have each lost all but 3 of their original characters...but at least they'll be synced up in time!
Oh yeah....I'm intrigued by Althea (the journalist). You know that old theory about if they show you something on a show it was for a reason, and that "something" will be used at some point later on. She has all those recordings that are SO important to her even though, at this point, there's no way to share them with the world. It makes me wonder if her tapes have real value to the world or is it just her obsession because she's a reporter. (I'm guessing she was embedded with the military at some point....she got some badass moves!) Anyhow, if this was a movie, I'd expect those tapes to be found and they'd make a sequel in the "found footage" format. 
"SanFran, did you catch what they said about the mini story showing in the "Title images"? What was that all about?"
I think he was saying there are easter eggs (in this case, images) inserted into the titles and that there are different images snuck into in each episode's titles. I think he said they are foreshadowing bits of the FTWD story and/or those images tell a story of it's own about the Walking Dead world.
I know if I don't have context of this "story", I'll never figure it out...but it would interesting to see all the easter eggs in chronological order at the end of the season. Maybe TD will do something like that...or even more likely a fan.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Monday, April 30, 2018 - 3:12 pm
I just watched the title cards (I should have just looked at the link there!).
All show the same field with hills in the back. S4E01 is at night, with someone standing in front of a bonfire. S4E02 is a bright sun in the sky, no sign of the fire, but a group of the trucks go right to left on the highway in the background. S4E03 there are clouds in the sky but bluebonnets have grown in the foreground.
I'm wondering if it's not so much a story that goes from week to week, but a hint at the story they're about to show. E01 was John's bonfire, E02 was the Vultures' trucks that show up outside the Diamond, and E03 were the bluebonnets.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Monday, April 30, 2018 - 3:17 pm
Kitt, FWIW, on TTD the showrunners definitely said it was a "story" of its own....
But yeah, that doesn't seem to jive with what we've seen so far. He also said that you had to see the whole sequence to understand.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Monday, April 30, 2018 - 3:30 pm
That's not what I meant, Sanfran. As Frank Dillane wanted to leave, I'm guessing he'd have preferred not to have to be filming all the months it takes to film an entire season. So they could have accommodated that by filming all the Before timeline (which has Nick in it) before the Now timeline (which only has Nick in it for three episodes). That frees up Frank while the rest of the cast continue filming the rest of the Now timeline. If Madison is only in the Before timeline they could do the same with her too. I'm only talking how they're filmed, I'm sure the rest of the season will intermingle the two timelines and the flashbacks to other gaps.
So what I mean about Nick having a nondescript end, is as we watch it the final scene with him will be whatever his last scene in Before is, because we've already seen his last Now scene. And as I'm anticipating the Before timeline to get us close to the beginning of the Now timeline (which we saw play out in Ep01), we know there's nothing really special or heroic there, it's just Alicia playing injured in the road and Nick coming out of the hedges. So that seems a bit of a shame to me, to have the last we see of Nick onscreen be like that, rather than a tragic death. I guess technically the Before scene could end with some other heroic thing Nick did, like maybe at the end of the Before timeline Madison dies and there's a powerful scene between the two of them, and then we just interpolate the tragic event leading to the guys being where we saw them in Ep1, but having seen Ep1 we'll know that whatever heroic thing Nick did, he then holds up Morgan, crashes, and is shot by a child.
Bottom line: I'd prefer the last moments on screen for an important character be their death, or a wistful flashback, not day to day life in an ongoing earlier timeline.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Monday, April 30, 2018 - 3:36 pm
Thanks for that link, Kar.
These images seem to reflect the difference in color saturation in the ep where "Now" is almost gray and "Then" is more vivid. I didn't realize that until I put them here and saw them all next to each other.
The original title card
1. Same location, ("Now" - lack of color) John Dorri (probably) alone at night...maybe a storm on the way.
2. Same location, ("Then"- vibrant color) the Vulture caravan driving down the road in the daytime.
3. Same location, ("Now" - lack of color) in this one the landscape looks different...possibly like there's a ravine (across the bottom of the image, and/or bigger rocks around that area where there weren't any in the previous images. The ground just doesn't look the same between the 2nd and 3rd pic. Also it appears that there is line of stalled traffic on that road...or maybe even a collection of trailers or something.
(Above images are from the youtube videos at: https://heavy.com/entertainment/2018/04/fear-the-walking-dead-title-cards/)
I would hazard a wild guess that maybe pic 3 alludes to the flood that was created when the dam was blown up in last season's finale...there is definitely a change in how the land looks...it kind of seems like a river bed or gully to me.
Or it's just fuzzy video.
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Monday, April 30, 2018 - 4:31 pm
"and E03 were the bluebonnets."
Bluebonnets! I couldn't make that out at all..of course I keep the brightness on my monitor down low because otherwise I get eye strain very quickly.
After I read your post, I pulled up that video and cranked up the brightness (it felt like looking at the sun for a second) and then I could clearly see the bluebonnets.
What I was seeing was the cliff of a ravine but it was just a bed of the state flower of Texas. Oh well, there goes my flood theory.
But, Kitt, what did you think that was on the road in pic 3? It still looks like structures or vehicles or something that we don't see in the other images.
I guess it could be a small community or something...the lack of color suggests it's Now, but Before could span 2-3 years, right? Plenty of time for a community to form?
I get what you mean about Nick now.
At this point, since he died in the Now I am just accepting it at face value like when Glenn died on TWD.
If there was any heroic thing Nick did before death, it was killing Ennis at the cost of his own personal peace of mind. This whole episode was, after all, a Nick Episode. It was a jolting shock because we weren't able to anticipate it and ponder the possibility of it for months like we were Glenn's.
Maybe they'll end the Before story with Nick marching through the Arena gates promising he's going to kill Ennis even if he has to die in the process. Whatever his final flashback scene is, I'll buy it.
I can't remember...have we ever seen flashbacks of characters who have died on TWD or FTWD before now?
I know we've seen hallucinations of dead characters(Lori and Merle, for example) but I can't remember if there have been any actual flashbacks.
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Lostfan
Member
03-10-2010
| Monday, April 30, 2018 - 4:35 pm
Ok I think I may have missed something..... ugh
What? When did Madison die? I didn’t see her with ennnis, how did I miss this!
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Monday, April 30, 2018 - 4:41 pm
We don't know that she died...it's just a possible theory because Maddy was only in flashbacks in this ep.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Monday, April 30, 2018 - 5:09 pm
I think the line on the road in Ep3 might actually be just a craggy bit of rock, that maybe has spring flowers on it, so it seems brighter than it did on the previous screen. It's really hard to tell. Maybe Ep4 will make it clearer if it is something going on there.
Yes, Nick's last scene in "Before" could be him saying "I'm going to kill Ennis if it's the last thing I do!"  Too soon?!
I don't think we've seen flashbacks of characters who've died in the main storyline, except cute kind of dreams or memories of Lori and Carl. And Abraham. But not actual storylines like this.
Yeah, we don't know if Madison is dead, it's just she's not there in the "Now."
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Monday, April 30, 2018 - 5:13 pm
And what happened to the woman they picked up too? I can't remember her name. She's not in the NOW timeline either.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Monday, April 30, 2018 - 5:53 pm
I'm trying to fit in the "Before" and "Now" timelines of Season 4 of FEAR.
Some things we know:
• the "Before" timeline begins when they have been in the Diamond for 365 days
• the "Now" timeline begins after the end of TWD Season 8, with enough time for Morgan to grow some veg, decide to leave Heaps, and travel from Virginia to the Austin area of TX
• Both the "Before" timeline and the "Now" timeline have Texas Bluebonnets in flower. According to goggle, bluebonnets can flower from late February, peak mid April, and last until May or sometimes early June.
So I'm going to make some big guesses, see how they work, and then change it when we find out something that disputes it.
For Morgan, firstly, I'm going to say Morgan stayed in Jadis' Heaps over the winter. TWD ended on November 9th 2011, when he moved in, and so - arbitrarily - I'm saying he leaves February 15th. By then if it was a mild winter he'd be able to get some winter veg going (which we saw in the planters behind him at the heaps), and there shouldn't be too much bad weather to come. Seems like a good time to leave.
Secondly, I'm going to say it took Morgan eight weeks to reach Austin, TX. It's 1300 miles from Virginia, but we saw him take several cars, walk some of it, and we saw the weather change and his shoes wear out. So for now I'm using six weeks. That sets the "Now" as beginning at April 15th 2012, and bluebonnets should be in flower on April 15th so that works too.
Looking at the Diamond, the previous Fear timeline (when the dam was blown up) ended March 31st 2010. Let's say there is absolutely no way all those things Madison said happened to bring her family back together took less than a month, which means the absolute earliest they could have found The Diamond was April 30th 2010. But it could have taken months and months longer.
Day 365 in the Diamond was announced in Ep2, and it was that night The Vultures set up camp outside. Just after that, Madison and Nick go out to look for food and they see the bluebonnets. Madison was surprised to see them, so I'm guessing they are early bloomers, and according to Google the earliest bloom is last Feb, so I'm going to call Diamond Day 365 March 1st. So Day 0 at the Diamond was also March 1st. It can't be March 1st 2010 because then they were still in Mexico. So it has to be March 1st 2011, with March 1st 2012 being Diamond Day 365 and "Before."
So.... bear with me... "Before" (when the Diamond starts to go bad) is March 1st 2012 and "Now" (when Nick and co. meet Morgan) is April 15th 2012.
That's only six weeks apart!
I guess as the season goes on we'll see if that's possible. It means there are 11 months post-Dam busting before they found the Diamond, which is a long time. And if it turns out whatever happens in "Before" clearly takes longer than six weeks then I'll have to reshuffle. I could push Morgan back a bit (there are a few more weeks for the bluebonnets to be in flower) but we'll see.
Bear in mind the entire series before this one, Seasons 1-3, happened over just two months, so it should work out.
So those are the very tentative timeline details for this season I'm about to put in the Timeline thread.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Monday, April 30, 2018 - 6:01 pm
Karuuna, yes, Naomi is missing in the "Now." And as she's a known actor I expect to see her quite a lot in the "Before."
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Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Monday, April 30, 2018 - 6:07 pm
Oh yeah....that woman was Naomi, played by Jenna Elfman.
The more I think about the Arena colony, the less I know about it. Aside from the core group (Maddy, Nick, Alicia, Strand, and Luciana), I don't recall seeing anyone in the Arena that I actually recognized. There were a bunch of folks hanging around in the background, but all unidentified, IIRC.
So it seems that the only established characters we haven't seen in the Now are Maddy and Naomi and Daniel (who's still unaccounted for, but he's too popular to have died offscreen in the dam explosion).
I feel like I'm forgetting somebody...not counting all the people/communities that the Clark family has left dead or dying in their wake.
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Pamy
Member
01-01-2002
| Monday, April 30, 2018 - 8:21 pm
Kitt, your timelines continue to amaze me!! TY!!!!
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Pamy
Member
01-01-2002
| Monday, April 30, 2018 - 8:22 pm
Shocked we lost Nick and I was so pissed until I heard he wanted off the show. They gave him a good send off. I would have loved to see him and Morgan together longer sigh
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Sugar
Member
08-15-2000
| Monday, April 30, 2018 - 8:51 pm
I have never cared for the Madison character so like the theory that Ennis killed her and that is why Nick was so angry and heck bent on revenge.
The second we saw Charlie, I told my husband, never trust the little girl characters, she will betray them and be the bane of their existence. Lo and behold, she kills Nick after spying on them for the Vultures.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Tuesday, May 01, 2018 - 12:36 pm
You're welcome Pamy.
They'll be another timeline soon because the more I think of it the more I wonder if it's the other option, that Madison, in the "Before," is surprised by late bluebonnets instead of early bluebonnets, say on May 15th. If that's the case then there's enough room in the timeline to shift the year at the Diamond to the previous year (2010-2011 instead of 2011-2012).
And if that's the case there'd be a six week gap between the dam exploding and them finding the Diamond on May 15th 2010 (where they would travel between Tijuana and Austin, 1300 miles and about 20 hours driving, but back then they had easier access to cars). Then at the other end, they'd leave the Diamond some time after May 15th 2011, depending on how long it takes for the Vultures to force them out and would be 11 months on the road (or perhaps 10 months if we shift Morgan's travels a bit earlier) minus whatever time they remain at the Diamond (yet to play out in the "Before" timeline).
Pros for early "Before," long time before "Now":
. not much exposition required about post-dam, and it would make more sense that Nick still had flashbacks about the explosion
. more time for the "Before" storyline to play out and them to get to the point where they're tricking strangers on the highway
. some screen grabs show Strand with a healed scar on his hand, which he doesn't have in "Before," and might take more than six weeks to heal
Pros for late "Before," short time before "Now":
. Charlie doesn't look like she aged between "Before" and "Now"
. Ennis was still driving the same car and doing the same things
. easy for the writers to make the "Before" storyline lead right up to the "Now"
If anyone has any opinions on the options I'd be really interested!
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Pamy
Member
01-01-2002
| Tuesday, May 01, 2018 - 5:53 pm
Kitt, I love the way your mind works!
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Lostfan
Member
03-10-2010
| Tuesday, May 01, 2018 - 7:24 pm
Nick explains why he wanted to leave show ....
https://www.facebook.com/FearTWD/posts/2002735320044574
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Tuesday, May 01, 2018 - 11:14 pm
He's an odd soul. For some reason I am always concerned about him, I think that's what makes him to appealing as an actor.
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Pamy
Member
01-01-2002
| Wednesday, May 02, 2018 - 8:53 pm
he reminds me of Depp
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Yacky
Member
07-06-2005
| Thursday, May 03, 2018 - 8:38 am
I guess I missed something. When and where did they pick up Naomi? I have only seen her in the previews for next week.
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Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Thursday, May 03, 2018 - 10:48 am
They went to the area Charlie said she was from in order to look for her family... instead they found a burnt out camp and Naomi. Naomi pulled a gun on Madison, ran up the ladder on top of the tank thing when the others came, then fell through the roof. After fighting off the walkers together they were suddenly all besties and she went back to the Diamond with the rest.
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