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Colordeagua
Member
10-24-2003
| Tuesday, January 05, 2016 - 12:53 pm 
They photographed the key where it was found in the room -- in plain sight. The photo was shown a few times in the series. Because her car was found in the salvage yard and authorities believe Avery did it (or want to plant evidence), any key should be suspect.
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Ranger2
Member
08-08-2008
| Tuesday, January 05, 2016 - 1:03 pm
http://www.today.com/popculture/making-murderer-filmmakers-our-goal-was-question-us-justice-system-t65161
This is really going to stir things up.
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Ranger2
Member
08-08-2008
| Tuesday, January 05, 2016 - 1:06 pm
The key was found in plain sight..and there were photos taken of the same area before they found the key, then out of nowhere, there's the key. The officer that found the key should've never been there in the first place, since they weren't supposed to be involved in the investigation. That's one of the things that bothers me the most.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, January 05, 2016 - 1:43 pm
The key was found 2 days into the search. They obtained the search warrant on 11/5 and found the key on 11/7, per the court documents.
I can't find ANY evidence that there was a photograph of before and after, so I'm not finding that credible. If those photographs were available, they would have been presented at trial.
Note also that the key that was found is a secondary key to the RAV4, it's not the master key. It could have been one kept in the car as a spare. The other half of the lanyard was found in the car, and noted on the inventory list on 11/5. So somehow you are saying that the key was not found in the car (but the other part of the lanyard was), but still the police planted it? I'm not sure how that would have taken place.
There is a tremendous amount of misinformation out there, it's important to stick to what is actually in the court documents, IMO.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, January 05, 2016 - 1:45 pm
If that juror behaved that way then s/he broke the law. And should be prosecuted, along with any other jurors who behaved that way.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, January 05, 2016 - 1:58 pm
Looking further into the court documents, it also does not sound like the key was in "plain sight." It was lodged in the back of the shelf between the shelf and the back panel of a book case.
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Colordeagua
Member
10-24-2003
| Tuesday, January 05, 2016 - 2:57 pm
As there were photographs of the "empty" space prior to finding the key and after it was found in that space in plain sight, there was talk about the possibility of the key falling from a shelf / the bookcase somehow. IIRC, came to no real conclusions about that as it did not seem likely / possible.
Later I may search the film for photos of the space and the key in the space and take pics of my TV screen.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, January 05, 2016 - 3:00 pm
I couldn't find any photos... so if you can point me to them, I would appreciate it. And I don't want the documentary's explanation, I want the actual testimony, because I don't trust the film makers... they had an agenda. The testimony was that the key was not found until the END of a 4-hour search, so I still question the "plain sight" claim. What were they doing for four hours that they didn't see it?
At any rate, it still doesn't explain how one part of the lanyard was found in the car (impounded 2 days earlier) and the other was found in the trailer later.
You would have to presume that after the car was impounded, not only did they steal the blood vial from evidence and sprinkle blood in several places, but also that they removed the key from the lanyard (why would they take it apart?), and then wipe it clean and plant it in the trailer, and then somehow get Avery's sweat and skin cells on the key. All while no one else knew what the police were doing.
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Ranger2
Member
08-08-2008
| Tuesday, January 05, 2016 - 4:17 pm
I thought it said they found the key on November 8th. And yes, court documents are important, but only if everyone is telling the truth, which I don't believe all those police officers were telling the truth. Lt. Lenk was the one that found that key, and he was not supposed to be involved in the case. Why didn't he stay away? Manitowoc deputies kept involving themselves in the searches...I don't understand that at all.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, January 05, 2016 - 4:36 pm
The reference I had said November 7th. But even so, why would the lanyard be in the car and the key in the house if they were "planting" evidence? Why would they take it apart?
Either way, it wasn't found for four hours on the day they found it, so I'm still not clear on this "plain sight" claim. They said it fell out of a big bunch of keys they had picked up off the shelf.
I can't find court transcripts on everything, so it's hard to know what is truly accurate and what isn't. But that's part of the problem. a lot of things are bandied about on the internet as if they are the Truth. I've even read it was weeks afterward. That's why the court documents are important, so we know what was ACTUALLY testified to, and not what the documentary makers would have us hear, or not what we read on the internet, which is largely conjecture.
I presume they kept involving themselves because they were permitted to. If the other agency had trouble with that, they would have kept them away. And if there was evidence planted, I presume the other agency would have figured that out also.
The simplest explanation is that he lured her there under false pretenses (that's quite clear and not in dispute), she was there longer than he claimed she was (he said she left at 2:30, the bus driver puts her there at 3:45). A bullet from HIS gun was found *embedded* in the garage with her DNA on it. Her blood was in the car with evidence of "hair marks" indicating a head wound. Her skull had two bullet holes. Her bones, palm pilot, camera, rivets from her jeans were all found in his burn barrel. Her car was on his property, the license plates also (both hidden). The car key was found in his house. His blood was found in the car in six places, including near the ignition and he had a cut on his finger. His skin cells were also found on the hood latch of the car (inside).
It seems quite clear to me, and the amount of effort that would have been needed for all that stuff to be planted or faked is enormous and would require several people to be in on it. Including the phone company!
So, I'm just not buying that he was framed.
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Scooterrific
Member
07-08-2005
| Tuesday, January 05, 2016 - 4:38 pm
Ranger that was my issue, too...I kept screaming at the TV .. YOU WEREN"T SUPPOSED TO BE THERE!!!
I am not saying he's innocent, nor that he should be pardoned, I'm saying a mistrial should be declared and another trial be done somewhere far away...same fro Brandon.
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Scooterrific
Member
07-08-2005
| Tuesday, January 05, 2016 - 4:56 pm
Karuuna, they were not permitted too...they even showed the scene where the judge ruled on the fact that they were not to be involved at all!
In addition this stood out to me...his blood was found in her car....but why weren't any of his fingerprints found in her car??
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, January 05, 2016 - 6:30 pm
Scooter - thank you, I didn't watch the documentary, but I don't trust how they might have cut and edited it. So I'd need something besides the documentary to believe it. Was this judge's ruling from that day forward? Or was the judge talking about things that had already happened. What's the date of it? How did they get footage of the trial? I'm not aware of any online that I can see.
As for his fingerprints - it's not unusual NOT to find fingerprints. Fingerprints can only be lifted from smooth surfaces, surfaces, and there are not that many places inside a car that would fit that description, except the windows. In this age of CSI, we think they must be everywhere, but it's really far more rare than our tv-created perception is. It's even been studied - the "CSI effect."
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Naja
Member
06-28-2003
| Tuesday, January 05, 2016 - 10:20 pm
Karuuna, I am confused. Are you saying you did not watch the documentary titled 'Making a Murderer'?
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Colordeagua
Member
10-24-2003
| Tuesday, January 05, 2016 - 11:55 pm
quote:Scooter - thank you, I didn't watch the documentary . . . .
No, Karuuna has not watched the film.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, January 06, 2016 - 10:10 am
Naja, you already know I didn't watch it, I thought we already covered that.
PS - Colord, had a question for you in the Shark Tank thread. 
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Cricket
Member
08-05-2002
| Wednesday, January 06, 2016 - 9:49 pm
For anyone interested, Investigation Discovery is showing an actual documentary regarding this murder called: The Making of a Killer (re Steven Avery) on January 9th. Watching it might better show how different the Netflix production is.
On Direct TV it's Channel 285.
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Pamy
Member
01-01-2002
| Wednesday, January 06, 2016 - 11:00 pm
cool, ty Cricket. TMZ had the defense attny on yesterday and what a mess he was!
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Cass_cat
Member
05-09-2011
| Thursday, January 07, 2016 - 9:45 am
Thanks for the heads up!!! I'll be sure to record it.
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Naja
Member
06-28-2003
| Thursday, January 07, 2016 - 9:54 am
It's already in on-demand and I watched it. I don't think it's exactly what you guys are hoping for.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, January 07, 2016 - 10:31 am
Smerconish interviews Kratz and he explains how Netflix misrepresented the evidence:
Why was there no blood in the bedroom? (she wasn't killed there, and the neck wound was just a scratch - the documentary left out Dassey's later testimony to that fact)
Was the discovery of the key suspicious? (no, it wasn't in plain sight)
Was Avery's blood planted? (No, the FBI test was conclusive, AND the blood in the RAV4 was from *active* bleeding as stated as evidence in the trial)
Was Dassey's confession coerced? (watch the whole 3-1/2 hour interview he says, he was tested for competency, and his statement was NEVER used in the Avery trial. In Dassey's trial, he testifies himself.)
Did the documentary leave out incriminating evidence? (the documentary makes no reference to the DNA on the hood latch. It is non-blood DNA, it is the hood latch UNDER the front hood that you must pop to fully open the hood. Teresa's belongings in the burn barrel.)
Listen for yourself:
http://blog.siriusxm.com/2016/01/07/making-a-murderer-prosecutor-addresses-5-big-questions-we-all-have/
ETA: CNN just showed an interview with the Sheriff and he notes:
- the key was stuck in the bookcase, it wasn't in plain sight, and it only fell out when they moved the bookcase.
- the license plate and car information were known to the investigator because it was given to them by Teresa's sister, and that's documented as well.
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Naja
Member
06-28-2003
| Thursday, January 07, 2016 - 10:49 am
Has anybody started season 2 of "Transparent" yet on Amazon? I am up to ep 4. The relationship between Moppa and Shelly is so hard to watch! They are both so confused that it's heartbreaking.
(When I looked up which thread people were talking about Transparent for season one, it's earlier in this thread. There's no other streaming thread)
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Cricket
Member
08-05-2002
| Thursday, January 07, 2016 - 11:03 am
Here are two timelines regarding this murder. The first is the actual timeline when the murder happened. The second is the timeline of the Netflix show. You'll see a difference.
Original Timeline
Teresa Halbach Murder
Quote:
Nov. 8: Avery tells reporters he fears authorities are trying to frame him because of his pending $36 million lawsuit against Manitowoc County officials over his wrongful conviction.
When Steven Avery made this statement I knew he had murdered her. Until then, I wasn't sure; however, having a lawsuit ongoing against the police, he might have felt he literally could get away with murder. He is sly like a fox and has conned these women.
Netflix Timeline (by a poster)
Netflix Timeline
Quote:
approximately 10/03/2015
*Teresa's professor notices that Teresa is getting phone calls that she is ignoring.
10/30/2015
*Teresa Halbach has an encounter with the ex boyfriend. Ex boyfriend says he definitely saw her that day, but says he does not recall what time or part of the day.
*SA's girlfriend goes to jail on her 5th DUI
What? What does any of the above have to do with Teresa's murder except to throw shade at people OTHER than Steven Avery.
Her brother was made to look bad or suspect when in reality neither he nor the ex-boyfriend were ever suspects.
These two women read an article in a NY paper and decided Steven was getting railroaded again. One of them decided to do a thesis on this case and they set out to prove him innocent. They had an agenda in making this film.
Now, people are calling for Obama to get involved?
Rissa, the other day you said if Avery gets out, it would be on the cops and the bad job they did. I don't believe that. If this man gets out and kills again (and he will...look @ his background) it will be on these two women and Netlix. HBO and others passed on this so-called documentary. Netflix should have done the same.
The Innocence Projects are going too far and this is a disgrace. Look up Professor Protess of Northwestern Univ. in IL. He went so far as to give his journalism students the wrong info and they framed an innocent man to get a killer out of jail. They got the killer out, but then the truth came out and Protess was fired from the Univ. He should have been arrested. He's now working as a private investigator.
These women did the same thing by trying to throw shade @ Teresa's brother and ex-boyfriend to free a killer.
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Uncle_ricky
Member
07-02-2007
| Thursday, January 07, 2016 - 11:04 am
Naja, Season 2 is just as good as Season 1, if not better - every single episode is excellent, especially episode 9, "Man on the Land" which is extremely interesting, enlightening (and disturbing). Anybody not watching "Transparent" is really missing out - the acting and writing are just magnificent!
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Naja
Member
06-28-2003
| Thursday, January 07, 2016 - 11:31 am
Uncle_ricky, you have me so intrigued. I am running 20 different things through my mind about what ep 9 could be about that it's disturbing. And you're right. Anybody missing "Transparent" is missing something incredible.
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