| Author |
Message |
Melfie1222
Member
07-29-2002
| Thursday, December 31, 2015 - 11:42 pm 
Started on Making of a Murderer today, I was super tempted to Google the whole thing and avoided doing so. Just now had to skim past all of the recent posts and guess I will have to avoid this thread until I've finished the series. I know it's not a movie, it's real life and has already been reported, etc... still the whole thing is new to me and I'd rather watch it without any preconceived ideas (other than my own of course  ). This is one of the few downsides of streaming series. First world problems, right?
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Naja
Member
06-28-2003
| Friday, January 01, 2016 - 12:01 am
Happy New Year, everyone!
There's just one more thing I wanted to point out before I go to sleep tonight.
Not only was there no blood evidence where the nephew said the murder occurred, but there was also no evidence of a cleanup to hide evidence.
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Uncle_ricky
Member
07-02-2007
| Friday, January 01, 2016 - 4:46 pm
Because I'm convinced the ex-boyfriend (Ryan Hillegas) is the actual killer, I went to Google to see if there are any campaigns afoot to take a closer look at Hillegas.
A blogger named Daniel Luke is not only convinced that Hillegas did it, he personally sent a text to Hillegas asking him to provide an alibi for the day of the murder. (!!!)
He also flew from his home in Portland, OR out to Manitowoc on Christmas Day to visit Steven Avery's family to present his theories about why he thinks Hillegas is the likely killer. (!!!)
You can read all about it via the link below to his blog, which he has titled "Ryan Hillegas Fooled Us All" - be sure to start with the oldest entry (Dec. 22, 2015) and work your way up to the current entry from earlier today.
The entry, for example, where he examines Hillegas's facial features during his testimony during the trial is exactly what I felt when I was watching the show, i.e., Hillegas is hiding something.
Interesting stuff!
http://ideape.blogspot.com/
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Pamy
Member
01-01-2002
| Friday, January 01, 2016 - 5:25 pm
this case is so sad. Those cops and DA were dirty
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Friday, January 01, 2016 - 6:39 pm
Pamy, they may be. And I don't know if Avery commited this murder or not. But if you knew his history, and what he did to animals and other people, you'd be okay with him being in jail for life. I am.
I'll spare you the details, because it would upset you.
He's not a nice guy. And he did rape one other woman who wouldn't file charges.
So, I'm not going to spend a lot of time and energy feeling sorry for him, whether he murdered this woman or not.
I have different feelings about the nephew, He did confess to his mother that he was involved. He also told her that Avery had sexually abused him as well.
So, yeah, I'm sad. But not so much for Avery. I'm sad for the woman who is dead and her family. And I'm a little sad for the nephew too, because clearly he was used by everyone.
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Pamy
Member
01-01-2002
| Saturday, January 02, 2016 - 1:24 am
I watched the 1st 2 eps and when they started to say something he did to cat I ff because yes, I cant hear bad things about animals. Strange how it doesnt disturb me as much to hear about people...I actually feel bad that I'm like this but I am.
so, I know he did something evil to a cat and yes Im glad he did time, 18 yrs for something he didnt do satisfies me for the cat crime.
I just dont see him as the murderer..why? what motive did he have? the keys in the wide open but not found until after the cops from the county that hates him were in his house...not buying it
also, not letting his lawyers know where he was and questioning him without them.
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Naja
Member
06-28-2003
| Saturday, January 02, 2016 - 8:32 pm
Exactly, Pamy. It is fact that Avery spent 18 years in prison for something he didn't do. There is no disputing that. The cops railroaded him. Once he was out, he sued the cops.
And that fact is what makes everything else in this documentary interesting. This murder is in the same jurisdiction as the cops that railroaded him, as well as the cops that were being sued.
Nice guy or not, it's all fishy.
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Rvon
Member
12-11-2003
| Saturday, January 02, 2016 - 9:18 pm
Yes, the whole thing is fishy. I no longer have the positive feeling he is innocent now. I read today where one of his lawyers (Strang, I believe) said he did not know if he was innocent, but hoped he was guilty because he is in jail for life. It gets a little more confusing each day since it first aired.
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Naja
Member
06-28-2003
| Saturday, January 02, 2016 - 9:51 pm
The reason his lawyer hopes he is guilty is because it looks like his lawyer has had no luck trying to get a retrial. His lawyer said nothing bad against him at all. If someone was in jail for life with no hope of a retrial, would you hope they were innocent? No, you hope they are guilty.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Saturday, January 02, 2016 - 9:55 pm
The documentary left out a lot, unfortunately.
I don't think 18 years is enough for what he did to that cat.
My point is that there is this whole wave of sympathy for this guy, as if he was some innocent. But he's not. Not only the cat, but molesting several of his own family members, including the one that says he was guilty, and raping another woman who was too afraid to press charges.
And let's not forget that the young man whose confession was coerced also confessed to his own mother (not coerced).
This documentary is not justice. It only told one side of the story. Were the cops wrong? Maybe. But given that this documentary was so biased, you can't use it to draw any real conclusions about this story.
The only thing that might upset me about him being not guilty of this murder is that if he is innocent, there is still a murderer at large.
So, it may say something about corrupt cops. But it also says something unsavory that Avery could commit so many crimes and somehow magically become the victim? Not buying it. He's no victim.
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Naja
Member
06-28-2003
| Saturday, January 02, 2016 - 9:59 pm
Hmmm, you said you weren't going to watch the doc. Let us know when you do.
eta: sorry, I guess you didn't say that. I won't delete the post so you see my apology.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Saturday, January 02, 2016 - 10:05 pm
what motive did he have?
Did the documentary show that he had called her over and over to come and photograph cars? That one time he answered the door (knowing she was on her way) in only a towel? That she found him incredibly disturbing and was afraid of him?
That he called her three times on the day she went missing? Twice while blocking his phone number? The third time (after she was dead), not blocking? Do you see the cleverness in this behavior?
What about that not only his blood but his sweat was found on the keys? And his DNA on the hood latch of her car (not blood)? You think the cops planted that too? The cops wouldn't even have known to plant that, since the fact that he had opened the hood came out later in the cousin's confession.
That Avery actually had purchased handcuffs and leg irons to use on women? (He claims they were for his girlfriend -but they are exactly the ones that his cousin described). The same girlfriend he had one time had a restraining order because of domestic violence?
How about the fact that Halback's palmpilot and camera were found in Avery's burn barrel?
I still think there is very good reason to find him guilty of this murder, even without the planted evidence.
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Naja
Member
06-28-2003
| Saturday, January 02, 2016 - 10:07 pm
One thing I do have to say, is I am shocked anyone would think it's ok for someone to go to prison for something they didn't do. That was actually one of Donald Trump's positions in the 90s when that group of young black men (teens?) were found innocent of raping and killing someone in central park after serving many years. He said (paraphrasing) they may not have killed her, but they were bad guys anyway who deserved to be in prison for other things.
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Rvon
Member
12-11-2003
| Saturday, January 02, 2016 - 10:11 pm
I didn't think of it this way, Naja -- it makes perfect sense the way you put it. But if I was his lawyer and I truly thought he was innocent, I would not give up.
There is still the possibility that a more sophisticated test will be developed to determine if the EDTA preservative (I think those were the initials) was in his blood that was tampered with. There is still hope.
I don't remember them saying he was arrested for animal abuse though. And now learning just what he did to the cat....well, he would have lost my sympathy right then and there.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Saturday, January 02, 2016 - 10:36 pm
I'm okay with Avery being in jail. He killed animals, molested family members and raped two women, one a young girl. And he admitted that to his girlfriend. While in jail, he drew pictures of a torture chamber that he showed to other prisoners. He is entirely capable of having committed this murder.
And as I said, it's not clear that he was wrongly jailed. I don't think it is as cut and dry as the documentary made it seem.
As I noted, they only told one side of the story. The jury heard the full story and they found him guilty. I'm okay with their decision. I think there's still good reason to believe he was involved, he had the car and he made an appointment for her to come see him. And he's now where he can't hurt anyone else.
Does the police dept need to be cleaned up? Sounds like it. But this guy is still not a victim, and I don't think he deserves the kind of outrage and sympathy... he's not some sad sack. He's deranged and cruel.
Let him go and before you know it, we'll be reading about the next person he hurt. Then all the internet "outrage" over his conviction will turn.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Saturday, January 02, 2016 - 10:36 pm
Rvon - it should be noted that it wasn't just his blood that was found. Also his sweat, on the hood latch and on the key.
None of the conspiracy theories seem to have offered explanations of that.
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Lakecat
Member
10-01-2006
| Sunday, January 03, 2016 - 3:54 am
I guess I should watch the rest of it. Why did he and wife divorce? What has his ex wife said about him? What's his relationship like with his children?
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Lurkin
Member
02-15-2002
| Sunday, January 03, 2016 - 7:51 am
rvon- what strang said in the doc was something like. He hoped that Avery was guilty because he couldn't take it that he did 18 years for crime he didn't commit and would do life for another crime he didn't commit-
I have the most problems with the no blood evidence with the throat slashings and shootings---the fact that he could have very easily crushed the car rather than the Laying of boards on the car-and the way Brendan was handled by the first "defense" lawyer- I believe he should have gotten a new trial on in effective counsel- I think it was more likely brother bobby was involved and Brenden repeated what bobby told him. Bobby and bro in law didn't seem believable
I think the cops may have "helped" with some . But not all.
And if the trial was soley what we saw I woul go with reasonable doubt on conviction. But sure there was a lot more than we saw
The mother just breaks my heart. I have boys and just put myself in her place. Standing by your child
Karunna- where can I read this other info you are giving. Not that I doubt you . I am just interested in reading more. I watched a lot of Court TV when it was on and reading more evidence
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Pamy
Member
01-01-2002
| Sunday, January 03, 2016 - 8:25 am
Kar, she was at his house, could it possible he leaned on her car transfering sweat?
my whole thing is they needed to be 99.9% sure he killed her. I dont think they proved it beyond a reasonable doubt.
If Johnny Cochran was his attny he wouldnt be in jail, so sad that justice is only served properly for the rich
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Rvon
Member
12-11-2003
| Sunday, January 03, 2016 - 9:10 am
Karuuna, the fact that only his DNA was found on the key does not mean a thing to me. Didn't his lawyers point out that Avery's DNA was the only DNA found on the key? Teresa Halbach's DNA was nowhere to be found on the key, which would mean the key was cleaned first and then his DNA put on it.
Lurkin, I agree. There are so many "confessions" and conflicting stories about what actually happened, but with no solid evidence to prove them.
I was also very suspicious of Avery's brother Bobby when they interviewed him too. I was also very suspicious of the judge for not granting a new trial for Brendan who's confession was clearly manipulated.
I would like to read the other information out there too.
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Jewels
Member
09-22-2000
| Sunday, January 03, 2016 - 11:01 am
I agree that that the movie was extremely slanted, especially since I have done some reading after I finished watching the series. But the one thing that still gets me is where is her blood? Not in the bedroom, not in the garage, not in her car. No evidence of clean up either. And what about the blood evidence that had been opened? If it had not been tampered with, why had it been opened and why was there a needle hole in the tube? That there was no explanation for those things really bothered me.
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Ranger2
Member
08-08-2008
| Sunday, January 03, 2016 - 11:10 am
That's what bothers me the most too, is there is NO blood. Why? If her throat was slashed in the bedroom, there would've been blood. If she were shot in the garage, there would've been blood. That garage was a mess, there's no way Avery could've cleaned all the blood up.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, January 03, 2016 - 11:57 am
could it possible he leaned on her car transfering sweat?
Not unless somehow he leaned on the hood latch on the underside of the hood...
In his opening argument at the Dassey trial, Kratz states Steve Avery's sweat/skin cell DNA was recovered from the RAV4 hood latch in April 2006, from a swabbing reportedly conducted due to investigators' (Fassbender and Wiegert) conversation with Brendan, in which he was prompted by investigators to agree that Steve Avery had opened up the RAV 4 hood (more on this in a moment).
Kratz: "Was Teresa's car hood opened up by Uncle Steve as Brendan says? Well, on Aprll 3, again, as a result of Brendan's statements, law enforcement swabs -- they take a Q-tip and -- and they swab the hood latch, reaching up underneath the hood, just to see if we can get a a DNA profile. Sherry Culhane does. She gets a full profile that's Steven Avery's sweat. Steven Avery's sweat is found on the hood latch, just like should happen if Brendan is to believed that Uncle Steve went under the hood."
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/3y3980/
avery_sweat_dna_on_rav4_hood_latch/
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, January 03, 2016 - 11:59 am
Karunna- where can I read this other info you are giving.
Much of it is at reddit (like the above) where people obsessed with this story are going over every detail of the court records.
The rest is from local papers. I'll try and find them for you.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, January 03, 2016 - 12:04 pm
I am also bothered by no blood in the bedroom or garage. I think the prosecutors put together an inaccurate story of *how* it happened, but her remains were found in his burn barrel, along with her palm pilot and camera.
Some of her remains were also found 10 miles away.. which is also odd.
I get why some of you think reasonable doubt should have applied. But I think some of the evidence can't be explained. Like the phone calls, like the sweat evidence. And of course, his character, or lack thereof, and obsession with this woman.
So, while I think the "how" is wrong, I still think he's likely guilty.
But what I am most bothered by is how slanted the documentary is in trying to paint him as some kind of a victim. As I noted, he's no victim. He's a psychopath.
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