| Author |
Message |
Spunky
Member
10-07-2001
| Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 3:35 pm 
I have to add something really 'unreal', or close to sci-fi, I even believe there is a strong pull from the future, future people in our lives that somehow force us to or guide us to some choices we make. I am sure that some thirty years ago my twin boys already existing in my future at that time were pulling me towards the marriage, I couldn't avoid it even if I wanted to, it had to happen because of their strong pull. I have heard someone saying that our children choose us... how weird is that?
|
Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Wednesday, March 18, 2015 - 7:38 pm
"Sure, they tell me, "but you can change it depending on which decision you make", sure enough, but that particular decision was also predestined and so what can I change"
Since time travel is just a theory, the idea of predestination is just a theory, too. Here's a question - if you're religious, how can your future be predestined if you were given free so you can make "good" choices instead of "bad" choices? Why would god punish you for making the wrong choices if your future was already predetermined?
Free will means you make your own decisions and decide your own fate but predestination means your decisions were already set in stone before you ever made them. If life is all predestined, so are all your decisions....which means that "free will" is just a fantasy.
That would mean that we're all nothing but biological robots doing what we were programmed to do.
That's what I love so much about time travel stories...the possibilities are endless! You make a change in the past and your future is different and you have no idea what to expect when you return. OR...no matter what you do, the outcome is the same because all your choices mean nothing since your future has already been determined including the very next choice you make in your life!
The only way to know for sure would be via time travel.....unless we all accept that everything that happened before this very second no longer exists and is mere memory and everything that happens after this very second is yet to be determined.
|
Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, March 19, 2015 - 6:23 am
Remember that Star Trek Next Generation episode where they got stuck in a time loop and kept colliding with another ship and blowing up? Then the sequence would repeat. They consistently made the same wrong decisions over and over again.
So while there may be no such thing as predestination and we have free will, I was thinking that if we were living our lives over in a time loop (and didn't know it) we'd probably live the same life because we'd likely make the same decisions. There's no reason why it would happen differently.
|
Spunky
Member
10-07-2001
| Thursday, March 19, 2015 - 9:29 am
exactly... thanks Sanfran and Jimmer. I love this type of discussion. Still waiting for that movie, I'm down to 265 now..
Interesting about that loop in time... I just saw the movie with Tom Cruise "Edge of Tomorrow" where he gets to re-live his past until he gets the future right (this is really wishful thinking by all of us). Sure it's fun but this wishful thinking comes from our frustration that we can't really change anything in real life... grrrr !!!
|
Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Monday, June 08, 2015 - 8:12 pm
Can anyone help me remember a show?
I think it was on two or three seasons ago. Some astronauts go into space, I can't remember why, there's some boundary after which they can't return and they go on through it, like it's their point of no return for a trip to Mars or something. Then there might have been a woman who was just outside the ship (somehow) even though that was space, and towards the end of the show they found some crystal/geometric figure on some sandy area. That might be where it ended (and I think a lot of us were relieved it ended).
Does anyone recognise the show?
|
Naja
Member
06-28-2003
| Monday, June 08, 2015 - 8:20 pm
Kitt, was it "Defying Gravity"?
|
Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Monday, June 08, 2015 - 8:44 pm
Yes it was! I have no idea how you worked that out from my limited description! I saw a trailer of the new Mars movie with Matt Damon and it reminded me of it, but just couldn't remember what "it" was!
And there was some issue with watching it on tv, wasn't there, maybe it was Canadian?? So we had to find it elsewhere.
Can't believe it was 2009. Time flies!
Thanks again!!
|
Naja
Member
06-28-2003
| Monday, June 08, 2015 - 8:54 pm
LOL.....Kitt, I had never heard of the show! I took a chance and typed into Google "TV show about astronauts going to point of no return", and it was the first result. LoL
|
Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Monday, June 08, 2015 - 9:46 pm
That's pretty amazing! I did several google searches on the crystal thing they found, but crystal is a pretty common scifi thing (apparently) and nothing was coming back of use. I thought the point of no return was too generic and didn't even try it!
|
Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Tuesday, June 09, 2015 - 12:21 pm
Off topic -
Spunky, have you received and/or watched "Predestination" (starring Ethan Hawke) yet?
|
Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Tuesday, June 09, 2015 - 12:54 pm
I did, enjoyed it. Very interesting idea.
|
Vsmart
Member
02-10-2003
| Wednesday, June 10, 2015 - 9:26 am
Reliving your life until you get it right is the movie "Groundhog Day".
|
Spunky
Member
10-07-2001
| Thursday, June 11, 2015 - 7:37 am
Sanfran, I have to go today to pick it up at the library, finally it's there waiting for me (I've got two reminders... what's wrong with me??). I'll try to watch it asap!!! So curious..
|
Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Thursday, June 11, 2015 - 12:15 pm
Great! When you finish watching it, let me know what you thought about it.
|
Spunky
Member
10-07-2001
| Friday, June 12, 2015 - 4:18 pm
Thank you again Sanfran for recommending this movie. I loved it, even with all the questions that come to my mind, it was an interesting spin on the whole time travel theory.
I figured out Jane/John were the same person when they reconstructed John's face after he got burned trying to defuse the fizzle bomb. However, the whole sex change seemed a bit forced to me, just to make the whole story work. The actress was great, by the way.
All in all, a very convoluted story just to prove that the future cannot be changed. The time machine could only perpetuate Jane/John destiny, and then when John finally sees his old future version shoots him, but only to lead him to that future version as the fizzle bomber (we never see however how he becomes the bomber, we can only assume that's the point of the whole movie, shoot or not shoot he will become the older demented John, but one thing for sure he did change, the time of his own death and hopefully the end of the cycle. Very interesting spin, however, Robertson was more interesting to me than the Jane/John character. Why did he know all he knew would happen? He almost represented God in this movie that had the power to move babies around and the same 'snake eating its own tail' story.
Lots and lots of loopholes but if I had fun watching the movie, then it was worth watching it.
|
Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Friday, June 12, 2015 - 8:09 pm
Spunky, I'm putting my response in a spoiler box in case some other folks here are planning on watching this movie.
Spoiler
Click below to view spoiler | I really liked the idea of one person being born "outside history and ancestry". If time cannot be changed but you can travel through it, then the past is fixed and so is the future. Even though a lot of things seemed to happen out of order in the movie, everything in the film actually happened in the "correct" "order" as presented in the film. It just wasn't chronological order!
I'm not so sure he actually changed the time of his own death. They had mentioned something about how too much time traveling could result in some kind of psychosis and that's why he was retiring. I think that's why he eventually wound up on the same path as his old crazy self...trying to save more lives by killing some people with his bombs, in an attempt to save even more people. Also, remember when he tried to "decommission" his briefcase at what was supposed to be his final stop but it came back with an "error" message? His briefcase wasn't decommissioned at all and it continued to work. Even though he was no longer authorized to use it, he continued to use it anyhow and he wound up as a crazy serial bomber later in his life who eventually met his younger self in the laundromat...who proceeded to kill him/himself.
Oh yeah...even if he did actually change something, I think that was only possible because "he was born outside of history and ancestry".....so anything he actually changed was always part of his destiny to begin with....but it (serial bombing, etc) became part of the history and lives of everyone else.
The idea that he was a mentor to his younger self and was actually his own mother AND his own father and both conceived and gave birth to himself was fascinating!
This time travel story was the best I've ever seen...as long as you don't the paradoxes get in the way. This time, the paradoxes were the key that explained everything.
That's my take on it anyhow. I'm so glad you enjoyed it! |
|
Spunky
Member
10-07-2001
| Saturday, June 13, 2015 - 7:03 am
Sanfran, your added comments explain a lot of my questions and some I agree with and can see why you recommend it. I don't know how to 'hide' the writing like you did and so I won't add any other spoiler, but I too would like to urge other sci-fi fans to see this movie.
P.S. I still find very intriguing the 'zero point, or no past' fact and the Robertson part. But maybe something is better left 'out there' so that we'll keep on guessing. If everything is explained to us we become less curious... Ever wondered why we still don't know why we exist? It's the mystery that keeps us going...
|
Sanfranjoshfan
Member
09-17-2000
| Sunday, June 14, 2015 - 12:11 pm
" I don't know how to 'hide' the writing like you did"
Spunky, type this:
And it will turn out like this:
Spoiler
Click below to view spoiler | | type what you want to hide here |
|
Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, June 14, 2015 - 12:24 pm
Anyone watch the new Sci Fi series "Dark Matter?" Caught the first episode, good enough to keep watching.
It's from the producers of Stargate SG1.
|
Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Friday, June 12, 2015 - 11:27 pm
Dark Matter started today. I'm not sure if it's the start of something special or simply really bad. It has potential to be either so I'll watch again.
|
Mizinvanccouver
Member
02-21-2003
| Saturday, June 13, 2015 - 9:14 am
Kitt....I too watched Dark Matter. Agree, not sure where it's going to go and I will watch a few more episodes. I do like the Android though.
|
Kitt
Member
09-05-2000
| Saturday, June 13, 2015 - 12:00 pm
When they were naming everyone numbers I told hubby the next one (Seven) would be an android (Star Trek Voyager reference) and it was! I don't know if it was an inside joke or not, but I was disappointed they didn't refer to her at any point as Seven!
|
Mizinvanccouver
Member
02-21-2003
| Saturday, June 13, 2015 - 12:25 pm
Oh ya!! Seven of Nine!! Good catch! That would be cool if they had! lol
|
Kappy
Member
06-28-2002
| Saturday, June 13, 2015 - 1:55 pm
I also watched Dark Matter and will continue to give it a try. I find it interesting that they were surprised to find out about their pasts so I'm wondering if they will try to change or be driven back to what they were before. Interesting concept in that if you're given a second chance, how would you use it.
|
Mizinvanccouver
Member
02-21-2003
| Saturday, June 13, 2015 - 4:24 pm
Kappy, yes, I too am curious what they will become. Up until this point, they seemed pretty nice, well except that one guy with the scar on his face.
|
|
|
|
