| Author |
Message |
Lexie_girl
Member
07-30-2004
| Sunday, November 06, 2022 - 3:56 am 
So how does someone win their way into the finale if they aren't winning money every challenge?
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, November 06, 2022 - 8:08 am
Lexie, they just outlast everyone else.
For years, it's not been unusual for people to make it to the final having never been in one of the elimination contests.
I think that's why they introduced the need to have won a skull in the previous season. The only way you could get one is to win an elimination.
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Sincebb1
Member
08-22-2005
| Sunday, November 06, 2022 - 10:21 am
The Golden Skull Twist turned out to have a negative impact on the game. They actually had to reduce the length of the episode from 90 to 60 minutes due to lack of content
It no longer mattered who won the daily challenge. Everyone knew which two players were gong in to elimination. No politics no drama. Players didn't have to play the game. Just volunteer themselves for elimination in hopes of getting a Skull. Those that had one were safe and wanted to stay that way.
I like that this year they have gone back to more towards the basics of what The Challenge was. So far anyway. I'm sure TJ has some sort of twist up his sleeve. Although I hope not.
This year they introduced late entry vet players. Required them to name 4 teams to go into elimination interview. They have to draw the "safe" dagger or be saved by the safe dagger drawing team. All new. I give MTV credit for always trying to shake things up and invent new rules…but also abandoning them if they do not enhance the game. It has always been a recipe of the ingredients ….politics, strategy, endurance and strength (mental and physical). If you possessed less of one…you had to use more of another.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, November 06, 2022 - 10:25 am
The thing I liked about the skull challenge is that they HAD to face at least one elimination, instead of skating to the finale because they had a strong alliance. And as we saw, those alliances are now formed before they even get there. 
However, this year, we've seen they've gone back to voting the same teams into elimination over and over... I don't like that aspect of it. I do like that they have to name 4 teams.
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Sincebb1
Member
08-22-2005
| Sunday, November 06, 2022 - 11:07 am
See I like it this way. If you can't talk your way out...you have to win elimination. Plain and simple.
With skulls you could come in dead last in every daily challenge and still be in a great spot. Kyle did not earn his way into a single tribunal on Total Madness, waited till the end, got to face the weakest player left in the game (Josh) for his elimination, went to the final, and came in second place!
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, November 06, 2022 - 11:12 am
The reason I don't is like I said... the vets form alliances before they even arrive, so the rookies don't have a chance. That's why you see only rookies in elimination.
They can't talk their way out... not against a longstanding veterans' alliance. Nothing they say would matter.
It stacks the deck in favor of the vets. Every. time.
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Sincebb1
Member
08-22-2005
| Sunday, November 06, 2022 - 11:24 am
Vets contact Rookies before too. You can't stop that happening in any reality show.
If they can't talk their way out they win...like Olivia and Horatio. And they are gaining the respect of the vets. They win daily challenge or they win elimination.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, November 06, 2022 - 11:37 am
Or the vets are becoming nervous of their ability to win, and vote them in more often so they won't have to run a finale against them.
I just don't think it's fair. It's fine if you see it differently. I liked when the vets were forced to face an elimination to qualify for the final.
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Sincebb1
Member
08-22-2005
| Sunday, November 06, 2022 - 11:42 am
"The game really has shifted. It's basically the exact opposite of the way it used to be. It used to be the vets would all be in an alliance, rookies would come in and we would target them right out of the gate. Now the vets are outnumbered, and I feel like the rookies are kind of running the show"
Johnny Bananas said that. So the vets themselves don't think they have the advantage.
The "rookies" become "vets" after a few appearances. You know what I don't think is "fair"...backdooring someone on Big Brother. You have no chance to stay in the game.At least this way you have politics, luck and your phyical strength to give you a chance.
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Sincebb1
Member
08-22-2005
| Sunday, November 06, 2022 - 11:54 am
Also, the vets are in their 40s and the rookies are in their 20s...so theoretically the rookies should be winning all the daily challenges and should be able to get rid of the vets. That's first line of defense available to all regardless if you are a vet or a rookie.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, November 06, 2022 - 1:07 pm
The shows so far this season clearly disproves what Bananas said. Only one vet couple has been nominated so far. 5 rookie couples have gone home.
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Sincebb1
Member
08-22-2005
| Sunday, November 06, 2022 - 1:13 pm
Bananas is one of the best vets ever. But it's still fair. Rookies can make alliances with other Rookies or with other Vets. Everyone can win the daily challenge. You want to be in charge, win the daily challenge. You can't? Then you have to use your alliances.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, November 06, 2022 - 1:22 pm
I think we have different views of what's "fair" and what's "fun to watch." Have a good evening.
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Sincebb1
Member
08-22-2005
| Sunday, November 06, 2022 - 1:31 pm
That is true. All the long time fans and production seem to have the same views as to what they like to see. Fortuitously it aligns with what I like. 
The vets are twice as old, yet are not using that as an excuse. Of course, what is fun for each to watch is totally personal opinion. That's why thankfully, there are all different kinds of competition shows to watch. You don't like one...there is always something else.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, November 06, 2022 - 1:34 pm
Really? "All" the long time fans agree? and so does production?
Then why does production keep trying different avenues to change it? Even TJ has said he doesn't. And *I* am a long time fan, which makes "all" not true.
There are a lot of different opinions about it. Not just yours. Not just mine.
And I like watching it. I don't have to agree with everything about how it's organized to like it. Goodness.
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Sincebb1
Member
08-22-2005
| Sunday, November 06, 2022 - 1:40 pm
Yes Of course my opinion is my opinion. But it doesn't have to be challenged continually
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Sincebb1
Member
08-22-2005
| Sunday, November 06, 2022 - 1:41 pm
If you go out and read all the recaps by other people not just watch the show you'll see that they are of similar and mostly the same opinion. I'm not just writing that off the top of my head or invented it.
I never said you had agree with me
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, November 06, 2022 - 2:04 pm
I was done posting except when you said "all" long time fans agree with you. All long time fans do not (me for example). Not even the producers *all* agree, or they wouldn't be trying things to force everyone into elimination at least once. And by the way, I felt like you were continually challenging my opinion. Funny how that works.
FWIW, I have no problem with your preferring it to be a different way. But when you made that all comment, I thought that was a bridge too far. There is no right or wrong here, just matters of personal preference. And I see lots of folks who are tired of the veterans always eliminating the rookies on other message boards. "Mostly" is quite a bit different than all, isn't it? So I appreciate your correcting that. I personally think it's more 50-50, but that's just my best guess.
Peace, out. 
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Sincebb1
Member
08-22-2005
| Sunday, November 06, 2022 - 2:19 pm
Really...semantics? OK most, almost all...whatever makes you happy.
I have not myself, read even one opinion supporting the Skull twist. So maybe that's where the all came from.., I guess I should have said all the recaps and comments I've ever read about the skull have been negative, whether from fans or vets. I guess I wouldn't know if they were longtime fans or new fans admittedly.
Because they had to shorten their show by 30 minutes. That's a fact, I'm assuming most production didnt like that, but I'm assuming. Most of the fans didn't like it either...again maybe some liked the shortened version
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, November 06, 2022 - 2:24 pm
TJ (one would presume he's a long time fan):
But this year, host T.J. Lavin tells the contestants he’s tired of people being able to skate by to the end because they make a big, strong alliance.
"“Listen up guys, I’m done with people skating by. I’m done with people going under the radar. This is the biggest twist we’ve ever had on The Challenge. If you don’t have a red skull, you ain’t makin’ the finals,” says Lavin. “This season, the only way to make it into a final is to win an elimination. From here on out, if you don’t come in here and prove it, you got no business being in the final.”"
https://heavy.com/entertainment/2020/04/mtv-challenge-2020-new-rules-twists-red-skull/
Maybe the skull twist didn't work... but TJ and I are on the same page.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, November 06, 2022 - 2:29 pm
TJ's favorite twist of all time:
What’s been your favorite twist to announce to the players in any season?
I liked the skulls on the helmet. You had to have a skull to run my final. I loved that twist a lot. I thought that was the coolest twist, a great idea because they had to get a skull and the only way to get a skull is to get into an elimination. So they were vying for those elimination spots, and that was really cool because we were having a problem with people avoiding elimination altogether.
https://www.tvinsider.com/1008733/the-challenge-spies-lies-and-allies-tj-lavin-preview/
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, November 06, 2022 - 2:30 pm
And now I'm really done.
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Sincebb1
Member
08-22-2005
| Sunday, November 06, 2022 - 2:35 pm
Yes, that is an old interview. Back then we all thought it was a great twist. But didn't pan out the way they thought it would.
But none of that diminishes the fact that you like that twist. That is your right
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, November 06, 2022 - 2:44 pm
Just an FYI, the second interview was in 2021... after both of the skull seasons had aired, and after they had dropped it.
TJ and I both liked it.
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Sincebb1
Member
08-22-2005
| Sunday, November 06, 2022 - 2:47 pm
That's still an old interview. We ALL liked it when it came out.
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