| Author |
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Dogdoc
Member
09-29-2001
| Friday, September 18, 2015 - 10:38 am 
Jimmer a friend of mine from church and I are animal lovers and nature lovers.
We went on a hike last weekend.
She said "Every time a branch brushes against I feel God with me." Then she said "I wouldn't tell everybody that, they would think I was crazy."
She knew I was crazy that way too.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Friday, September 18, 2015 - 10:52 am
What I am trying to say is, if we are not allowed to have an opinion that differs from a "study", then that does not make our opinion wrong. Otherwise, close down this thread.
Well, again, then you are reading something that is simply not there.
I have said over and over and over that everyone is entitled to their opinions, and their INDIVIDUAL journeys and feelings. Multiple times!
But I have also pointed out where those opinions and feelings cannot be extrapolated to ALL situations. And in fact, sometimes they are contrary to the data that we have in research.
I am not treating (professionally) anyone in here. I would never do that, and should not do that. It would be a violation.
So, no, I won't treat you like your therapist did. I"m not your therapist, nor should I be. Here, I am simply another poster, sharing my views, knowledge and opinions from my world view. Just as you are.
Discussion boards have a variety of opinions, including many that disagree. It's wise to be able to tolerate disagreement without taking it personally to participate in difficult discussions.
You sound like a very nice person. I just disagree with you on this issue, based on my years of experience in the field.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Friday, September 18, 2015 - 10:57 am
Jimmer, I think I just found your "blissfully happy" phrase as inaccurate. To me, it sort of implies something unrealistic. Maybe that's not what you meant. And in the context that you used it, it seemed to imply that also. That they would dismiss reality in some way.
I am relatively sure the Duggars are suffering, unhappy, troubled and distressed over this. So that's why I think "blissfully happy" is inaccurate.
I do think that many spiritual people find ways to be at peace with their life troubles. Sometimes in very healthy ways, and sometimes in very unhealthy ways. I think it's important to see that and try to distinguish between the two.
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Muffin
Member
08-29-2007
| Friday, September 18, 2015 - 10:58 am
Jimmer, when you said blissfully, I understood what you meant.
I knew that you said that more as an expression than in the actual context of the word.
<99>
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Friday, September 18, 2015 - 11:44 am
I agree that the word "blissfully" is often associated with negatives. However, I meant the literal meaning of the word, as I have since explained. As we've discussed elsewhere, faith and religion can be used in good or bad ways and lead to positive or negative outcomes.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Friday, September 18, 2015 - 11:52 am
I don't think the Duggars are literally finding anything joyful or blissful about this situation. Frankly.
That's MY point. 
So, I guess I still don't get what you are trying to say. They may make peace with what is happening, and believe that their faith will help them through it, that's not a bad thing.
If they make peace with it by blaming everyone else, that's not a good thing.
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Muffin
Member
08-29-2007
| Friday, September 18, 2015 - 11:55 am
Karuuna, when I posted above, I hadn't seen the other posts previous to that one.
I do respect your opinions in that you are a trained psychologist.
However, I formed my opinion of the Duggars years ago. When I say that I don't like the way they are raising their children, and I think that is part of Josh's problem, I am not talking their religious views. It just so happens that in the past 6 months I have learned that the way they do raise their children is part of their religious beliefs. I never knew what their religious views were in the past. To me, they considered religion very important in their lives and that is fine. I didn't know they were following the doctrines of Gothard and the ATI teachings. I had never heard that prior to last May.
Believe or not, I don't think Josh is an animal, and yes he is responsible for his actions, but I "feel" that his upbringing played a role in his actions.
I don't think praying for redemption will help him in the way he needs help. He did that at age 15. He hasn't changed much. He is just as curious today as he was then.
IF, and I say that in capitals, if I am to even remotely believe what that prostitute said about Josh, then his issues run deeper. Anna, is his wife, I don't think he would ever throw her around like a rag doll while having sex with her. She is his wife and the mother of his children. He probably looks at her with different feelings. Yet, he is addicted to porn and hired a prostitute because of his being curious. I could put the word curious in quotes, because that is what his family calls it.
I am actually beginning to feel bad for Josh. I still stand by my feelings that Josh should be seeing a licensed psychologist to help him with his thoughts and issues. He CAN be helped, but I do feel that he needs more than it what it appears he is receiving now.
More than for Michelle and Jim Bob, I hope he is getting the proper treatment now, but I don't know if he is. None of us do.
The Duggar family are hypocrites. Josh called himself a hypocrite. Maybe because he didn't know how to ask for the proper help, he just went along with what was expected of him when he spoke out against the LBGT. I don't know. More than anyone here, Josh's world view is very, very limited.
Maybe he was hit with the rod too many times. Sorry, I just had to add that in.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Friday, September 18, 2015 - 12:15 pm
Muffin, thank you for your articulate posting of your view... it's very clear.
I actually agree with most of it.
I agree that their religious views "may" have had a role in Josh's issues. I disagree with pronouncements that it was the "cause" of his issue. That's the thing that got me posting here in the first place, because some (and I don't remember who) were saying that as a fact.
I have always felt badly for Josh. I see these now-adults as teens or kids who didn't get the help they needed when they needed it. They live with a tremendous amount of guilt and self-hate, which is the part we generally don't see, or if they express it, the internet highway ragers (not anyone here) claim they are lying. There's little empathy or forgiveness out there.
It's only sociopaths that don't feel that shame and self-loathing, and I don't see Josh as a sociopath.
I too, am unclear about whether he is getting adequate help. But I"m "unclear." Not sure that he's not getting adequate help, again, as you said, we don't really know.
So, you see, we're really not that far off in our world views. Thanks for posting!
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Friday, September 18, 2015 - 1:03 pm
Okay Kar, then I used too strong a word or the wrong word. I've tried my best to explain what I mean to you and tell you that it is pretty much the same as what you have been saying ever since I posted but obviously I'm not succeeding. Maybe I'll try again later.
In an earlier post I quoted you:
The deeply religious aren't blissfully happy, they are at peace with their outer circumstances because they have faith and confidence in their beliefs.
And I wrote:
I think we mean the same thing, Kar (perhaps you said it better). I see it the way Dogdoc described that Sunday night at her church. It can be a beautiful thing.
So I think we are on the same page with this.
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Saturday, September 19, 2015 - 8:42 am
I just read in People that Jill Dillard is now an official CPM midwife. For a change it's nice to read something positive going on in this family.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Saturday, September 19, 2015 - 10:35 am
Jimmer, yes, I see that we were on the same page. I was just still processing it, didn't mean to make you feel like we weren't.
As I noted, I just felt the words were misleading or could lead to misunderstanding, which is why I said something in the first place.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Saturday, September 19, 2015 - 12:29 pm
Thanks Kar. Sometimes it can be hard to communicate thoughts and ideas in this sort of written format and the words we use are important and how we say things and make each other feel is important.
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Bbwatcher
Member
09-12-2008
| Thursday, September 24, 2015 - 5:03 pm
http://www.aol.com/article/2015/09/24/the-duggars-are-returning-to-tlc-with-new-specials-focused-on-je/21240622/
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Noellepv
Member
03-04-2010
| Thursday, September 24, 2015 - 5:09 pm
I just read it too, though not sure how I feel about tlc doing this.
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Reader234
Member
08-13-2000
| Friday, September 25, 2015 - 6:48 am
This is one I'd protest. They need to quietly go away, but... TLC did do all those update shows for Kate Gosselin, so I can understand if they can make money (i.e. people watch and support sponsors). It is a free country
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Mameblanche
Member
08-24-2002
| Friday, September 25, 2015 - 7:48 am
Those 2 gals were their brothers victims and if they are ostracised along with him it's just a pile-on of more victimization. Especially since Jessa and her husband are in agreement with her FIL who publicly exhoriated Josh online, which is a tough thing to do when you've been brainwashed and come from such a tight family. So I am proud of her and hope Jill comes around too. IMHO - YMMV
Slightly off topic: I also hope hope hope Anna smartens-up and get's her children away from Josh.
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Bbwatcher
Member
09-12-2008
| Friday, September 25, 2015 - 8:05 am
i have no problem with the girls, why should they be punished?
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Friday, September 25, 2015 - 8:41 am
But one of those young women is still part of the charade of being on a mission, soliciting donations but then flying around the world to attend weddings.
TLC gets to resume making money so they are happy.
They should not be punished for what was done to them, but the new shows are just a backdoor to continuing to support this whole family and their so called tax evading religion.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Friday, September 25, 2015 - 8:43 am
But one of those young women is still part of the charade of being on a mission, soliciting donations but then flying around the world to attend weddings.
It will be interesting to see if the show addresses that at all. Probably not.
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Friday, September 25, 2015 - 9:30 am
I have been in church all my life and have seen many missionaries come through trying to raise sponsorship. It is just the way it is done in most cases. I have no problem with it. They mostly go to horribly poor countries who don't pay them anything for trying to make the place a little better for people.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Friday, September 25, 2015 - 9:48 am
FWIW, if they are using those funds to fly back and forth that seems misleading. However, those that give to them for the mission work are entitled to support whomever they want to. It's quite possible to use family money for the trips and the mission funds for just the mission.
I have no problem with the young women getting some tv time. If people want to watch, let them. No one has to if they don't want to.
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Roxip
Member
01-29-2004
| Friday, September 25, 2015 - 9:51 am
A lot of times people also donate plane tickets for them to fly back and forth.
Most missionaries are tasked with raising a great deal of their own funds. I sponsored a young woman who taught at a school in Nigeria all of last year (of course I was only a small part of a larger group of sponsors). She has since returned with her husband (who she met there - he was also working with a different missionary group) and will probably end up sponsoring them as they continue working with the children in Nigeria. They certainly do not live luxuriously. She was just excited when she was able to stay someplace with a/c last year.
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Mameblanche
Member
08-24-2002
| Friday, September 25, 2015 - 11:01 am
I have no problem with her and her husband coming home for a family wedding. And from what I understand the show will feature their missionary work, so it stands to reason they will be filmed in whatever country they will be working, which should be fascinating. I started watching regularly around the time she went to Nepal (?) with her dad to visit the guy she eventually married. I also liked when the family went to Japan.
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Friday, September 25, 2015 - 1:35 pm
I liked that trip also, Mame. Remember when all the girls got of fixed up like geishas?
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Friday, September 25, 2015 - 1:41 pm
They own 2 jets..
People donate flights for people like cancer patients..
Missions involve sacrifice and giving, not taking, IMO.
ROXIP, your people sound legit.
Make, enjoying trips on reality family shows that are funded by the network, donated for exposure of the resort .. seems different to me than begging for funds online .
I done remember that this funding was asked for the mission trip, seemed to be for the family.
I am coming from a place of never having respect for this family, over populating while lobbying to limit the lives and possibilities of groups of people who have done nothing to hurt the Duggars.
So since AI always wished they weren't being promoted and funded by TLC all along, I am not thrilled by their seemingly inevitable return..
Yes, my mileage varies.
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