| Author |
Message |
Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Monday, August 31, 2015 - 1:10 pm 
Why are we thinking josh compulsively watched porn and saw hookers. Many men watch porn and see hookers. That is not highly unusual. "Statistically" half of all men cheat. Many men watch porn. This is not worthy of rehab. Lol. They are rehabbing the Duggars name. This all could have been avoided if he was able to talk to his wife and say hey babe lets spice up our sex ...lets get you a vibrator. Sexy new cuties etc. but nope that isn't allowable because his religion says nope. He can only have sex to procreate . The last thing josh needs is more religion..... It's not for everyone. I hope he gets free from his God and lives a happier life.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Monday, August 31, 2015 - 1:31 pm
I don't understand the question. Of course going to hookers is wrong, if you are married and hiding it from your wife!
And yes, for some people, it is worthy of rehab. Clearly.
To say it would have been avoided if he could just ask his wife to spice things up is to blame HER (in part), which is just wrong.
I hope he finds peace in his own way (not the way that is right for someone else), whether that is through religion or rehab or whatever it takes.
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Muffin
Member
08-29-2007
| Monday, August 31, 2015 - 1:36 pm
Jimmer, I don't know what Josh's sex life is with Anna, but what Josh was seeking on the website is clearly not what he was getting at home. I am not blaming Anna at all. She was brought up the same as Josh.
Josh wanted what he wasn't getting, and probably wouldn't even want it from his own wife! Looking at porn and cheating are not crimes. He was acting out on his fantasies and was brought up that sex is equated with procreation.
Having fantasies is not illegal. I do know of couples that have watched porn together and recreated what they watched, with each other and didn't have to go outside their marriage for it. However, I cannot see Josh or Anna doing that. I feel that their sex life was just for procreation.
Josh and his family's beliefs are that you pray and apologize and you receive redemption, and then all is forgiven.
Probably more effective in Josh's situation is that he goes to a bonafide sex therapist, and then Anna joins him in this therapy.
Josh is not unique, many others have done the same thing before him.
Josh also is the eldest of 19 children. I can't see where he received enough love from his parents with that many children.
There are not enough hours in a day for a parent to demonstrate their love to that many children. As soon as those kids reached the age to hold a baby properly and feed that baby, they were given those jobs. Their mother was too busy making more babies and nursing them, and then onto making new babies.
I think they way those kids were raised is at the root of their problems or specifically Josh's right now. We don't know about the others yet. How many families can they be compared to that have 19 children that grew up just fine with prayer and jurisdictions. Yes, the Bates have the same amount of children and they believe in the same teachings and Gothard as well, but we don't know yet if their demons will come out in the future.
Bottom line......his upbringing, the amount of children in the Duggar family with not enough time to spread the love around, and focusing on religion as the ONLY way to raise children is the root of his problem. Someone, who is not of the same teachings as the Duggars, would be more beneficial to Josh right now. Simply praying more for God to forgive him won't help Josh long term. This is just my gut feeling.......time will tell.
Going into THIS specific kind of rehab is just putting a bandaid on the whole situation. The Duggars can't see beyond their religion. They are probably hoping that in 6 months, the public will forget all about Josh's troubles and will be yesterday's news.
Almost every religion have fanatics with a belief system that ends up ruining lives. People have killed others because of their religious beliefs. Parents have even killed their own children who have brought dishonor to their family because they dared to do something against their religious beliefs, men and women have strapped bombs around themselves to kill multiple people at a time, over religious beliefs. The list goes on and on.
This is my opinion, and no one here has to agree with me. I am just voicing my opinions here on an open forum. Maybe I am just being too judgmental, but the Duggars and people of their faith are also too judgmental!!
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Muffin
Member
08-29-2007
| Monday, August 31, 2015 - 1:46 pm
I would like to add that instead of focusing this forum now on how faith has helped prisoners, or how faith has reformed people, or how Josh might have something wrong in his brain, maybe we should focus on how any extreme religious views has caused severe damage to the believers and to non believers of different religions. One example of this is Jehovah's Witnesses.......they would rather watch their own child die than let them have a blood transfusion. Thankfully, in those situations, the Courts have stepped in.
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Roxip
Member
01-29-2004
| Monday, August 31, 2015 - 1:49 pm
Can we stop with the Christian bashing? Please? There are many people who grow up in households with what some people term "extreme" religious views and they are normal, contributing members to society. Whatever is wrong with Josh is what is wrong with Josh - he is NOT practicing the tenets of his faith.
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Monday, August 31, 2015 - 2:03 pm
Well, said, Roxip.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Monday, August 31, 2015 - 2:20 pm
This is a thread about the Duggars so I don't think that anyone is bashing Christianity in general. However, I think there are valid concerns about extremes in any religion or belief.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm quite amazed at the suggestion that Josh's problems could be solved simply by encouraging him and Anna to have a hearty sex life. 
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Muffin
Member
08-29-2007
| Monday, August 31, 2015 - 2:21 pm
I wasn't Christian bashing, but no problem. I'm done here.
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Muffin
Member
08-29-2007
| Monday, August 31, 2015 - 2:31 pm
Jimmer, I didn't say that. Sorry that you interpreted my post wrong. <77>
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Keldogg
Member
08-12-2005
| Monday, August 31, 2015 - 2:33 pm
Could care less if he's sleeping with his wife, a prostitute or a harem of women. That doesn't affect me in any way, because I'm not his wife.
I also don't care about his religion.
I care about the hypocrisy and the fact that he works to try to stop people from having their full rights in this country, while portraying himself as a protector of marriage.
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Moderator
Moderator
06-29-2002
| Monday, August 31, 2015 - 2:39 pm
Specific concerns about moderation should be addressed to the Moderators via email or PM. Thank you. 
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Monday, August 31, 2015 - 2:43 pm
I was just commenting in general and not addressing you specifically, Muffin.
I agree, Keldogg. That is the issue for me as well.
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Monday, August 31, 2015 - 3:23 pm
To put it simply everyone here is speculating. There is no wrong or right. We don't know why he molested his sisters or was a horn dog in his marriage.
In my opinion his religious upbringing messed him up sexually. Are all people raised in his religion messed up sexually, no one knows.
The hypocricy from him and his parents makes for good fodder. Being a highly public family it leaves them open for speculation. Is he just misunderstood , he repented and absolved, his religion has nothing to do with his deviance , his religion has everything to do with it.
I always say TVCH is the best site on the internets, best posters, best admins!
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Monday, August 31, 2015 - 4:00 pm
I do believe there is right and wrong and now I'm going back under my rock.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Monday, August 31, 2015 - 4:17 pm
Roxip, you are exactly right, and that's been my point all along.
There are people with Josh's obsessions who are raised by atheists, or any other religion. There are people raised in Josh's religions who don't have his obsessions.
So, you can't simply conclusively say that it was his upbringing that *caused* anything here. It may be the religion in conjunction with his personality, but it's not sufficient alone as an explanation.
And Muffin, the reason we are discussing these other things is that because scientifically they are better explanations for aberrant sexual behavior than his religious beliefs. So as long as people are going to keep pointing to his faith as the sole source of his problem, I'm going to keep pointing out what I find to be more scientifically grounded and more logical explanations.
This is the Duggar thread. So we are discussing one of the Duggars.
You can discuss anything you want of course. And so can anyone else here.
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Monday, August 31, 2015 - 5:08 pm
I'm the one who thinks his religion more than likely contributed to his deviant sexual conduct toward his 4 sisters and a babysitter. He was at the height of his puberty and as his sisters said " Josh was too curious". Read horny. Teens going through puberty are all very "curious". Most teens have rights of passage at the age.....not intercourse but they seek out porn, find the "easy" girl, find their fathers playboy. I don't think Josh had those outlets or even access to those options. His curiosity had to be fed by his sisters, one which was five years old. Nothing can rule out that theory. It's as valid as any other. Like who knows he might have been born a deviant and his religion didn't play a role. No one here knows, as much as we all stand behind our viewpoints...it's just that a viewpoint. But I still think mine is most logical .
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Monday, August 31, 2015 - 5:48 pm
I have also said that his upbringing *likely* contributed, maybe you missed that.
I just don't think it is solely responsible, or that it *caused* his deviance. And we just don't know if, had he been raised differently, if he would have turned out any differently. In fact, we also don't know, that had he received therapy at that time if it would have made a difference either!!
And you're right, we can't rule out other causes, which is precisely why pointing to his upbringing as the sole cause is faulty logic.
I would also like to gently correct you about "all teens" are curious. That's not true either. There is tremendous variation in hormone levels and interest in teens.
Again, that's precisely why we can't say, without a clinical workup, how Josh got to be the way he is.
And that's been my only point all along. 
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Monday, August 31, 2015 - 7:59 pm
Another in-law weighs in, and he's not happy with Josh:
http://www.aol.com/article/2015/08/31/jessa-seewalds-father-in-law-slams-pretender-josh-duggar-in-n/21229773/
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Monday, August 31, 2015 - 8:20 pm
I am curious about how other Christians view Josh at this point. Of course, that is only one example but it is interesting.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Monday, August 31, 2015 - 8:23 pm
There is tremendous variation in hormone levels and interest in teens.
How did they clinically evaluate that in an accurate and unbiased manner?
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Monday, August 31, 2015 - 8:57 pm
Physical characteristics, behavior, and blood tests.
Heck, my DS even had to have a test to see if he had enough growth hormone, because he was so short for his age group, but his parents were so tall.
It's only done if there is some condition or issue of concern however. As it should be.
It's pretty common knowledge that libido correlates with testosterone. Typically, testosterone levels are highest in male teen years.
Of course, other things can either amplify or depress sex drive as well. Teens are more depressed than ever too, and that causes lower libido as well.
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Tuesday, September 01, 2015 - 4:17 am
If a teenaged boy isn't "curious" that would be unusual.
All his religious teaching failed, all the parenting failed, all his role models failed, all their praying failed. He must have just been a bad seed of Jim Bob's.😜. No need to speculated why he molested 5 young girls....nothing in his life contributed to his deviant personality.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, September 01, 2015 - 9:40 am
Lilfair, if a teenage boy isn't curious, it's still within the range of normal development. There is tremendous variation in the population.
My quibble is with saying that they ALL must be. That's not true, and it makes those who are not seem abnormal. They are simply atypical or late developers, or they may end up being asexual.
And again, you keep mistating my position. Why do you do that? I have said multiple times that his upbringing either didn't help him when he needed or *likely* contributed to it getting worse.
And I never said there was no need to speculate. I just said it was *speculation* not a clinical evaluation, and therefore shouldn't be taken as *truth* or conclusive.
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Dovez
Member
08-27-2005
| Wednesday, September 02, 2015 - 12:04 pm
Where in the world is Waldo....er, Josh Duggar?
https://www.rawstory.com/2015/09/josh-duggar-is-missing-from-treatment-center-report/
( Who knew the Duggers have not one but two private planes? )
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Wednesday, September 02, 2015 - 12:37 pm
Lots of speculation but no facts on Josh.
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