| Author |
Message |
Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, August 27, 2015 - 1:01 pm 
Muffin, could be. I read that he was suicidal after the first set of revelations.
I always hold out hope. It's who I am. Hope but verify. 
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Friday, August 28, 2015 - 8:39 am
This is very interesting and is more or less what you've been saying all these week, Kar.
STUDY CAN'T CONFIRM RESULTS OF MANY PSYCHOLOGY EXPERIMENTS
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_SCI_VERIFYING_SCIENCE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Friday, August 28, 2015 - 9:24 am
I saw that also. It's a little misleading, in that they specifically chose studies that had only been performed one time. No one reputable relies on one time only studies... it's a 'rule' of science, experiments must be able to be replicated with the same results before they are taken seriously.
So, this is kind of just saying the same thing we've always practiced for years. If an experiment shows something, you think "that's interesting" (not "that's true") and then someone goes out and tries to replicate it.
It's also important to note that as the article explains, that this technically is also ONE study, and it should be looked at with skepticism ITSELF unless it can be replicated.
Concerning this conversation, there are things (like deficits in the prefrontal cortex that I have mentioned) that have been replicated dozens of times - in terms of research on sexual deviants and violent criminals. That's important to note.
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Dipo
Member
04-23-2002
| Friday, August 28, 2015 - 1:08 pm
I find it interesting that he is going to a faith based rehab. My experience is that those don't work that well, at least they haven't for my niece who has been 4 times.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Friday, August 28, 2015 - 1:14 pm
Actually, the research shows that faith-based rehabs are MORE successful than non-faith-based rehabs. As I have stated multiple times, the research is QUITE clear that faith-based jail programs are far more successful in reducing recidivism than secular programs. And that study has been repeated dozens of times with the same result. In fact not a SINGLE study has shown the opposite - that secular treatment is more effective.
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Roxip
Member
01-29-2004
| Friday, August 28, 2015 - 1:50 pm
The problem with rehab is that it only works when the person being rehabbed is truly ready for the experience.
I had a friend who went to a long term rehab program that worked extremely well...but you were there for a minimum of 18 months, including time at a halfway house. You worked the whole time you were there past the initial phase and everybody had to work together. To this day he and the people he was in rehab with stay in contact with one another and support each other. If one of their "classmates" is faltering they go and track him down!
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Sadiesmom
Member
03-13-2002
| Friday, August 28, 2015 - 2:00 pm
having survived life with an alcoholic,I often Think it is the connection with others that makes it work more than anything else.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Friday, August 28, 2015 - 2:09 pm
Well, it's a mix of being ready and as Sadies noted, a supportive community. But sometimes people see the light when they get into the program as well, even if they weren't ready. And sometimes someone is ready, but still falls back into old patterns.
I suspect that one of the reasons faith-based programs work so well, is because they are associated with communities that continue to support you when you leave... just like AA does.
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Dipo
Member
04-23-2002
| Friday, August 28, 2015 - 3:13 pm
By faith based, I didn't mean like AA that believes in a higher power - I believe that truly does work, I meant a church run rehab.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Friday, August 28, 2015 - 3:32 pm
yes, and by faith-based, I also mean run by a church. That's what the studies verified. That those kinds of rehabs have a better success rate than secular rehabs. In every single study comparing them.
I'm just theorizing that the community-based approach, as well as the belief in a "higher power" or religion may work synergistically in a way that's more effective. That's not been studied, that I know of.
So we don't know if the therapeutic benefit/effectiveness is more driven by faith or community, or if it requires both.
AA does heavily insist on the handing over control to a higher power. So it is also faith-based. And it has as a goal a "spiritual awakening." So you may want to divorce it from spirituality, but in essence it is a faith-based rehab.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Friday, August 28, 2015 - 3:39 pm
The 12 Steps are full of references to God:
We admitted we were powerless over alcohol — that our lives had become unmanageable.
Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
Having had a spiritual awakening as a result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.[1]
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Friday, August 28, 2015 - 3:57 pm
I'm glad that works for some people. However, it eliminates atheists.
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Babyjaxmom
Member
10-20-2002
| Friday, August 28, 2015 - 4:03 pm
My parents were both in AA and I went to a lot of open meetings as a child and young adult (loved the stories!). You don't have to believe in God to be in AA, just believe in a power outside yourself. Notice they're careful to say, "God as we understood Him." It's just important to believe in forces bigger than yourself, you don't need to be a Christian.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Friday, August 28, 2015 - 4:08 pm
Jimmer, recently there have been some humanist AA groups formed, no data on whether they are equally effective. They have rewritten the 12 steps for their own purposes.
Babyjax, and no you don't have to be Christian, or technically believe in God, but as I pointed out, 7 of the 12 steps reference God or Him or prayer/meditation, so it is heavily "spiritually" based.
You could be pagan, I suppose. But the spiritual element of AA is pretty central to the system.
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Muffin
Member
08-29-2007
| Saturday, August 29, 2015 - 12:47 am
Without being in a rehab that specializes in sex addiction, I can't see where Josh is really going to get the proper help he needs.
He's been praying since he could talk, and it didn't help him at all.
Most of the key people in that rehab are ex drug addicts. They are not professionals. I read about each one of their key staff and I am not impressed, not that it makes a difference to me. Putting a bandaid on his addiction is for the public.
If he had gotten proper help when he was 14 and molesting his sisters, he might not have escalated to this.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Saturday, August 29, 2015 - 8:39 am
I don't see this as an escalation. If anything it's a de-escalation. Looking at porn and cheating on your wife, while obviously not a good thing, is infinitely preferable to molesting children.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Saturday, August 29, 2015 - 9:16 am
One of the male mentors in the program IS a recovered sex addict, as I posted above.
Yes, I know none of them are professionals. But AA doesn't use professionals either, and they are quite successful.
And I agree with Jimmer, what Josh was doing on Ashley Madison was not illegal in any way - so I"m unclear about how it can be called an escalation. If so, 37 million other people are "escalating" too. And the 2 million that joined since the AM hack made the news!
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Mameblanche
Member
08-24-2002
| Saturday, August 29, 2015 - 10:51 am
TWO MILLION joined SINCE the HACK? OMG seriously??? 
That's insane (and offensive - to me) on so many levels.
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Merrysea
Moderator
08-13-2004
| Saturday, August 29, 2015 - 10:55 am
I'm guessing those two million didn't know about AM before the hack.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Saturday, August 29, 2015 - 11:21 am
I've heard that AM has a lot of fake members (i.e. employees masquerading as women) but I'm not sure if that is true or not.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Saturday, August 29, 2015 - 11:30 am
Frankly, I think Josh should be commended for finding a legal outlet for his overwhelming sexual needs. Small steps, people!
(Sadly, I'm not even joking about that. It's a million times better than if he was still abusing children.)
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Muffin
Member
08-29-2007
| Saturday, August 29, 2015 - 11:56 am
He was 14 years old and molested his sisters who were children at the time. They were the only females who were available to him.
If you read what his profile was looking for in AM, you can see that his curiosity has obviously increased. He approached a prostitute because he wanted a lot more.
I don't get why people are insisting on defending Josh. I don't care if he cheated on his wife, that is more common than not. But I see an escalation in him. Just my opinion.
Pages and pages were written here about Josh not being clinically diagnosed therefore we can't know ourselves. I doubt if he will be clinically diagnosed in that rehab, nor will he have his brain checked out as Karuuna brought up brain theories sometimes being a cause in some instances because biology could be problem in some cases.
It remains to be seen how the other Duggar children turn out.
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Sadiesmom
Member
03-13-2002
| Saturday, August 29, 2015 - 12:16 pm
AA did not require a belief in god, I made many atheist friends there, guess it might be living close to NYC there might be more atheists there - so no, you do not have to believe in any god and the higher power can be your mother if you need it to be that. it is anything outside yourself you wish to define, a phone or the clock on the wall, anything or one.
Haven't been to a meeting n several decades since my divorce, but how you believe did not have to be defined to anyone, you substituted what you believed. My Ex was an atheist and it worked for him. He slipped 6 times after joining, but 40 years later, he has not had another slip.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Saturday, August 29, 2015 - 12:33 pm
I am not defending what Josh did or what he is currently doing. I just don't see the world in as black and white a manner as some people do.
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Willsfan
Member
09-04-2000
| Saturday, August 29, 2015 - 12:45 pm
2 million that joined since the AM hack made the news"
That is appalling if even a third of them are looking for hook-ups.
I have read articles (over the years in women's magazines) that said 99% of all husbands would cheat if they thought they could get away with it. I still think there are good men out there but some of those good men might be curious - not wanting to have sex but just looking at what's on the websites that other married men are visiting.
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