| Author |
Message |
Muffin
Member
08-29-2007
| Monday, May 25, 2015 - 7:18 pm 
I see what Karuuna and Texas are both saying and I agree with both of you to a certain extent, however, they chose this public life, I'm referring to the parents, and they portrayed themselves to the public that they were this wonderful family, raised their children in a very proper way and then publicly denounced gays! This is what bothers me the most. They made a living off this show. And used their "fame" to push others to think and believe how they do. They showed us this happy, happy family. When you have skeletons this size, in your closet, then don't go on TV and portray yourselves like this. Stay out of the media and then no one need know about it.
I think we have every right to discuss it, because if they wanted us to think only good things about them, to stay on TV, then we can say both good and bad things about them!!
I have barely watched this show for the last 3 years, by choice. I disliked their values, how they raised their children, and I felt Michelle was simply banging out children for her daughters to raise. It was my choice not to watch. I feel this happened in part because these kids were so isolated. Josh did a terrible thing and to his own sisters, but the parents are completely to blame. Whatever steps they took to help their kids, I question it.
I do not believe they should be back on TV to make a living and using their fame to speak out against groups of people. Put yourself in the public eye, and you deserve everything you get, good and bad.
I only feel bad for the victims, the children. Did Michelle and Jim Bob truly believe no one would ever find out? I guess they did. This family is a farce. They wrote books for people to buy, and they made their living in the media! You reap what you sow.
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Texasdeb
Member
05-23-2003
| Monday, May 25, 2015 - 7:24 pm
Yes, & Duck Dynasty & Paula Dean don't get much interest anymore! Their shows are just not popular anymore..............The public "has" forgotten about them which means .......... their income has suffered!
Do the Duggars want their popularity to go away? You can only ask the membors of that family that are making a living off of the show........
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Monday, May 25, 2015 - 7:54 pm
Muffin, I don't disagree with much of what you said. I don't have a problem with discussion, either. And I am deeply troubled by many of their beliefs.
The part that disturbs me is the idea that some of the discussions go too far, IMO. And I won't repeat myself, because I think I've made it clear where they go too far - claiming the girls were brainwashed into forgiveness, claiming Josh is a pedophile forever, etc. These aren't helpful to anyone.
We don't know the full story. And I feel horribly for any young person who has either found themselves curious in a harmful way (maybe like Josh?) or victims of that curiousity. Because they are less likely to come forward because of the vitriol spilled out in the social media madness. IMO.
TexasDeb - Yes, the public has turned away, and they will likely turn away from the Duggars now that they have fallen off their self-imposed pedestal also. And that will happen whether the Duggars make a statement and address this further, or whether they don't.
IMO, what they ought to do ought to be dictated by the feelings of the young women involved (I believe most are adults now?) THEY are the ones who should decide what goes out on the airways, or not.
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Texasdeb
Member
05-23-2003
| Monday, May 25, 2015 - 8:10 pm
karuna, the young women involved "should" be the ones who decide what goes out on the airways.
I would like to be protective of the gals while hitting the guys where it hurts........their wallets!
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Bluejaxrock
Member
04-23-2004
| Monday, May 25, 2015 - 9:07 pm
"We don't know the full story."
That's part of my problem with this whole thing. We don't know, yet are quick to judge. Isn't that what some are accusing them of being? Judgemental? Okay, they have/had a tv show, putting them in the public eye, and have the audacity to speak out about their beliefs. So what. Part of being an American is the right to your beliefs and the right to speak out about them. I may hate what you have to say (KKK for example) but will stand up for your right to say it. And maybe the more I hear things I disagree with the more vocal I will be.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, one of the best things about TVCH is our ability to agree to disagree, and without much, if any, vitriol. Love you guys!
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Ophiliasgrandma
Member
09-04-2001
| Tuesday, May 26, 2015 - 5:34 am
I'll sneak in here for just one moment. Over the years many times I've heard both Jim Bob and Michelle say they aren't perfect nor are they a perfect family.
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Connies
Member
03-11-2010
| Tuesday, May 26, 2015 - 6:47 am
I too have heard them say they are not perfect. No one has forced thousands to watch their show and follow their family. I for one have watched for years and admire many of their beliefs. I think it is very sad what has happened to this family and what the younger children must think now that their TV "family" isn't around, camera men, producers, etc. because they looked like part of the family. Personally it was a lot more comfortable and entertaining to watch this family than it is to watch the Kardashians.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, May 26, 2015 - 7:03 am
The extremely negative reaction to this whole situation is a prime example of why it is so risky to seek outside help. That is a shame because it encourages families to keep these things hidden and that hurts everyone.
As a society we treat young people differently than adults for a reason. They are still developing and learning. That should apply in this situation as well.
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Dbleagle
Member
08-13-2009
| Tuesday, May 26, 2015 - 7:12 am
When you break one of the four rules of crisis management... "You're gonna have a bad time." ($1 to the ski instructor dude from South Park)
1. Tell the truth
2. Tell it all
3. Tell it first
4. Tell it yourself
Politicians, celebrities, sports figures, CEOs, etc... all seem to disregard these simple rules as we all do at times, I suppose. They just happen to be in the spotlight.
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Keldogg
Member
08-12-2005
| Tuesday, May 26, 2015 - 7:42 am
I would like to add a 5th rule. Do not publicly accuse others of acts while trying to hide the same exact act. And if found out, dont be surprised when people call you a hypocrite.
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Rvon
Member
12-11-2003
| Tuesday, May 26, 2015 - 8:40 am
I will be very happy if this show is permanently pulled off the air.
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Muffin
Member
08-29-2007
| Tuesday, May 26, 2015 - 9:01 am
Texas, I don't believe they should go out on the airways about this. They don't "owe" us an explanation and the entire story. Whatever they say probably will not be the entire truth, and if it is the truth, it still wouldn't be accepted.
I just feel they should no longer have their show! This is their personal problem and at this point they should just call it quits.
They should just go back to being a family and no longer be in the limelight. If they weren't on TV in the first place, no one would be talking about them. There is really no way to make this better. It happened!!
Jimmer, they are being judged harshly because millions have been part of their lives for years. Not every molesting case hits the media. But the Duggar family has been part of people's lives for so long that this is now a topic of conversation and yes, we are passing judgment on them.
They need to stay out of the public eye now. No more shows!
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Brenda1966
Member
07-02-2002
| Tuesday, May 26, 2015 - 9:14 am
I like your 5th rule Keldogg. And I agree Rvon.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, May 26, 2015 - 9:51 am
Jimmer, they are being judged harshly because millions have been part of their lives for years. Not every molesting case hits the media. But the Duggar family has been part of people's lives for so long that this is now a topic of conversation and yes, we are passing judgment on them.
I agree that the publicity makes it worse. However, I think that "normal non-famous families" face similar risks if they come forward and seek outside help. Kar has pointed to specific examples of this happening.
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Sadiesmom
Member
03-13-2002
| Tuesday, May 26, 2015 - 10:09 am
I did not know that the quiverful groups just formed in the 80's, I guess that decade is more notorious than I thought.
I did not know that Michelle had an older sister who was lesbian (radar online http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2015/01/michelle-duggar-lesbian-sister-bankruptcy/ disgusting reporting the only value is the family wealth). I wonder if this affected her adoption of this lifestyle. I believe lifestyle is correct here. and since their home is their church,they don't pay property taxes like you and me.
the only other Quiverfull family I know of -Andrea Yates, who was suffering from postpartum depression and drowned her 5 children after several suicide attempts and having doctors saying she should not have ore children and should not be left unsupervised, she is not being forgiven but is spending time in a mental institution which is probably a good thing, at least she won't be having more children with her horrible husband.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-02-2002
| Tuesday, May 26, 2015 - 10:20 am
I had no idea Yates was of the same type cult religion. Interesting. Oprahs "where are they now" had an update on the Yates husband where, to me, it seems he has acknowledged that their extreme religion likely played a role and seemed, to me, that he has backed off from that religion. He's remarried and has another child or two.
So, wow, if I make my home a church I won't have to pay property taxes? Amazing how people skirt around doing their civic duty. 
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Tmagicsaq
Member
03-26-2004
| Tuesday, May 26, 2015 - 10:39 am
I know a man.. he is a good man, husband and father. This man volunteers with youth, helps them stay on the right path. He is there for any number of them, some just want to talk, some need help from abusive homes. He is a good man.
When he was 14/15.. he made mistakes, huge mistakes. Mistakes that many here are saying or implying that he should be punished for the rest of his life for.
Some of what I am reading saddens me, can people not learn? can people not grow and learn from mistakes? Are people suggesting that these kids who make mistakes should carry this around for the rest of their life?
I stole a candy bar when i was 14...Am I now considered a thief for the rest of my life? (yes i know not the same thing)
And for the record, the victim in this... she is his sister.. she forgave him.. she would do just about anything for him now.. and yes I am friends with her.
People can change from who they were at 14/15 years old, people can forgive and move on... it happens...
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Brenda1966
Member
07-02-2002
| Tuesday, May 26, 2015 - 10:49 am
I have to ask Tmagicsaq, is this man running around pointing his morally righteous finger at others, calling them molestors? This is why Josh's past mistakes are encountering such outrage -- his actions today to marginalize a segment of the population.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, May 26, 2015 - 10:58 am
Tmagic, thank you for your post, said eloquently and poignantly.
I think people keep forgetting the difference between under age and adult.
I stole a candy bar when i was 14...Am I now considered a thief for the rest of my life? (yes i know not the same thing)
Actually, it is the same thing, the consequences are just harsher on the victim. Kids experiment, they smoke dope (doesn't make them addicts), drink (doesn't make them alcoholics), lie (doesn't make them pathological). It's part of the maturing process.
Yes, the Duggars should be called to account for their hateful stance on others. Absolutely.
But their stance on *adults* is not the same as what Josh did "underage". That's why we have separate courts for adults and juveniles.
So, it's hateful, and they are ignorant, but it's not necessarily hypocritical, unless the Duggars are attacking other juveniles specifically.
And of course, they called what Josh did a "sin" as well, and said that he needed to repent. They think the same way about gays/trans. Their mistake is thinking that gay/trans is about *sexuality* and not biology (who you are).
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Tmagicsaq
Member
03-26-2004
| Tuesday, May 26, 2015 - 11:20 am
I understand that some of the comments are made with the justification on Joshs (or his families) current views and outspokenness. I do not agree with his views.
However I am referring to the comments that I have read like "once a molester always a molester" "these people don’t change" "he has kids, i worry for them” “his wife should leave him”
Those are the comments that sadden me, while I know very well that some do not change and that this is a life long sickness, however i dont agree that people can't grow, can't change, can't learn. I don’t agree that victims can't ever heal to the point of foregiveness.
I don’t agree that a 14/15 year old boy can not get help and change his path in life.
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Iluvreality
Member
05-08-2011
| Tuesday, May 26, 2015 - 11:44 am
I think the really sad thing is.....what he did and the fact his parents and many other people covered it up. It is sad they let this happen to their daughters and I guess he was more important than the girls are. I have not been a fan of this show in years.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, May 26, 2015 - 11:52 am
Although they didn't seek professional help I don't know that means they covered it up either. What were they supposed to do? Alert the media?
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Mamabatsy
Member
08-05-2005
| Tuesday, May 26, 2015 - 11:55 am
Most 14/15 year old males are very curious about the opposite sex. VERY! But in a normal environment they have friends or even parents who have a "Playboy" around or the internet to see what they are missing. Or know a slightly more experienced female to show her "goods." Having no other outlet, Josh might just have been curious. Whatever his reasons, be they perverted or just normal curiosity, helping someone build a house is hardly therapy. I just don't get any feeling that anyone in the family got real abuse therapy. The parents also should have been counseled by other than a pastor.
Add to that their insistence that gays are more apt to molest than others, makes me sick.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, May 26, 2015 - 12:24 pm
To be fair, the police officer they told "covered it up," because AFAIK, in all states, officers have a duty to report. So perhaps there was some cover up there.
But the rest of it? No. You are entitled to your privacy, no matter how much people say "well, you're on a reality show, nothing is private." I disagree.
Mama, he helped build a house AND as I understand it, received counseling (within their worldview) at that time. he didn't just help build a house.
I am also troubled by their false accusation that gays are more likely to molest. That is hateful.
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Sueby
Member
11-18-2004
| Tuesday, May 26, 2015 - 12:45 pm
http://defamer.gawker.com/duggar-dads-political-platform-incest-should-be-punish-1706929035
Wow. The Hypocrisy.
It really saddens me how these parents failed their children. They failed their daughters and they also failed Josh.
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