| Author |
Message |
Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Monday, October 28, 2013 - 4:25 pm 
They should stay out of politics if they bring their religious beliefs with them. Their god tells them birth control is a sin, porn is a sin, fornication is a sin,....so the duggars bring their god into a secular government...I am so not into that, at all.. The duggars tell gays they are sinners and the DUGGARS are active in the anti gay fringe.... They work hard against gay couples adopting....because their god told so. No one is making any duggar seek birth control or chose to abortive an unwanted pregnancy, or watch porn, or fornicate. These duggars want the government to outlaw these things even though there is no mandate to partake in those activities .
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Oliviamimi
Member
05-30-2009
| Monday, October 28, 2013 - 4:53 pm
The Duggars may want the government to do all of those things Lilfair but they are not the government and don't have that power. All they can do is speak out, campaign for those that support their beliefs and vote the way they feel is best for themselves and their their families. They are expressing their beliefs publically. They do have the right to do so, even if you or others don't like it. Just as you have the right to disagree and vote in opposition. No one can stop them from doing what they are doing. And it is their right. They are doing nothing illegal. As far as having the government outlaw abortion and gay marriage, the majority of the tea party want to do just that. The Duggars are hardly alone in that. I think that I'm correct in saying the majority of the Republican party are on the same page as the Duggars. Religion, fortunately or unfortunately, however you see it, plays a huge role in politics.
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Monday, October 28, 2013 - 5:46 pm
The duggars are spewing hate towards the gay community and against women, in general and in no way do I want them ginning up money and lobbying my government...and yes the Republican Party as it is today does want to give governmental legitimacy to the anti gay, ect religion of the duggars. The people who recruited josh are gigantic republican donors. It's funny that a government found on freedom from religeos oppression is now a government fighting from its people being oppressed by religion .
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Roxip
Member
01-29-2004
| Monday, October 28, 2013 - 6:00 pm
I guess I don't watch the show so perhaps I don't really know what I'm talking about, but I have never heard that the Duggars are spewing hate against the gay community and against women. I would love to see a direct quote from a Duggar that spews hate. I've never really heard them (the few times I've watched) say a harsh thing against anyone.
I've heard a lot more hatred spewed about them than from them.
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Legalboxer
Member
11-17-2003
| Monday, October 28, 2013 - 6:09 pm
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
This is the very reason our country was established - to allow people of all beliefs to not only exercise their right to those beliefs but also to express their views... and their is a BIG difference between separation of church and state versus the fact that our political actions are based on our beliefs (religious or not) and its just a matter of how many share in that intent of political action to make it a reality... if we didn't have the right to campaign for what we wanted, regardless of how much others disagree, this would not be what the USA is all about.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Monday, October 28, 2013 - 6:49 pm
The eldest son has taken a job with the Family Research Council which is specifically classified as a "hate group" by the Southern Poverty Law center for their remarks about gays.
Josh Dugger is now an anti-gay activist, campaigning against "special rights' (like marriage) for gays. He has been quoted as saying "even my lesbian aunt *hates* gay marriage." I think many would call that 'spewing hate.' JMO.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Monday, October 28, 2013 - 6:59 pm
As for hatred for women, while it can be debated, the Duggers belong to a religious group that basically believes that the primary (only) purpose for women is to bear children. Whether you call that hateful, or simply diminishing the role and lives of women is certainly debatable, but to me, it seems highly limiting at the very least.
It's not just that they advocate their own followers to this purpose. It is that they think it is the directive of the Bible and the rest of us, even Christians, are disobedient to God.
Even the name, Quiverfull, is built around this primary belief of this extremist group. As in the passage in Psalms that talks about children being the arrows in a "man's" quiver for the "army of God."
It's really quite a disturbing belief. To me. If they believe that, and want to live by it, that's fine. But the idea that they are encouraging these high birth rates to create some kind of "army" for God? Yikes.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Monday, October 28, 2013 - 7:06 pm
While they have that right (including Josh) I hate to see TLC FUNDING their lives and giving them the bully pulpit. The show of course makes them look good but then they use the proceeds to have more freedom and time to support hate group think.
As for it not making any difference if the people in the reality show are Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, Jewish, Christian... well that is not the norm to allow that open discussion..
Look at what happened with All American Muslin, which was ABOUT several Muslim families in the Dearborn area of Michigan, which did not denigrate any other religion but conservative Christian lobbyists and groups scared sponsors away, prominently Lowes, and the show was cancelled after one season. I was really enjoying the show. And I have boycotted Lowe's ever since.
Scarily, given the number of Duggar progeny, at least one or two are likely to BE gay.. and if that is true, they are living in HELL in terms of having any support.
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Lazylu
Member
04-09-2010
| Monday, October 28, 2013 - 7:16 pm
I think it is a good bet that at least a couple of the girls will rebel. I don't watch the show, but haven't the older girls been raising the little kids?
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Monday, October 28, 2013 - 7:27 pm
Roxpix, josh works for a "company" tha's primary cause is to promote laws disallowing gays to adopt, teach, marry, work in public arenas, they want all birth control to be outlawed....the list goes on. Tlc would never allow their cash cow be shown advocating their pure evilness when it comes to the gay segment of humankind. They've got a few more seasons in the black. Once the show is no longer making money they'll throw them to the curb. If people actually knew what these people do in their off time they'd be devastated.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Monday, October 28, 2013 - 8:10 pm
Once again, while I disagree with their views, they have the right to state their beliefs and work to elect people who share their beliefs. Those are also important rights as is my right to not watch their show or support those views.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Monday, October 28, 2013 - 8:37 pm
They do have the right to state their views, of course. And the public has a right to express their dismay over those views, and possibly cause them to lose their show.
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Chieko
Member
11-20-2003
| Monday, October 28, 2013 - 8:39 pm
If you don't like their viewpoint then you are free not to watch their show (I don't by the way). But it is incredibly arrogant to say that they shouldn't be able to express their views.
Roxip, I think you misunderstood me. I do watch the Duggars, I like the family and I like their show. I greatly admire them and respect all their beliefs and how they seem to work for their family. I also believe they have the right to proselytize all that they want, I was just expressing my disappointment that they were using politics to accomplish that means. I understand they have that right, I'm just sorry that they choose to exercise it. I'd rather see them minister and be an example than try to force legislation on the rest of us.
I never once implied they shouldn't be able to express their views. I'm interested in their views, I just don't want to be forced to live that way if I don't choose so.
I feel on the larger plane there is quite a difference between a liberal "live and let live" attitude and a conservative view that tells me what lifestyles and actions are wrong and legislates to eliminate them.
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Roxip
Member
01-29-2004
| Monday, October 28, 2013 - 9:05 pm
I apologize, Chieko, for misunderstanding your viewpoint.
And I will bow out of the discussion because I do not really watch the show regularly.
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Konamouse
Member
07-15-2001
| Monday, October 28, 2013 - 10:14 pm
If you don't support their views, I would suggest not supporting their tv show or their sponsors.
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Oliviamimi
Member
05-30-2009
| Tuesday, October 29, 2013 - 2:02 am
I disagree with the Duggars and their views on gay marriage. I am however prolife. So that part of their religious beliefs are to my liking. But for the most part I am mesmerized as to how well this group of people can get along and cope so well with such a large family. That is what fascinates me. They are all terminally happy and upbeat. I am hoping to unlock their secret to such positivity. I am wondering if they aren't all drugged with happy pills and we don't know it 
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Oliviamimi
Member
05-30-2009
| Tuesday, October 29, 2013 - 2:06 am
When I say I am prolife I do believe in birth control and any and all preventative measures. I even support the morning after pill. See? everyone has their own idea as to what works for them. This works for me.
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Tuesday, October 29, 2013 - 10:09 am
Oliviamimi, that's wonderful as long as you are not working against people who don't share your religious ideals.
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Oliviamimi
Member
05-30-2009
| Tuesday, October 29, 2013 - 10:30 am
Lilfair I don't have the time energy or desire to do anything but express my views here on this message board.
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Oliviamimi
Member
05-30-2009
| Tuesday, October 29, 2013 - 12:26 pm
One other thing, tho I am Christian, I cant say I am a studied or knowledgeable one. My beliefs and feelings on abortion are not based on scripture. It is just how I feel.
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Jimmer
Moderator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, October 29, 2013 - 12:46 pm
I'm not sure why people consider the Duggar's religion to be such a red flag in these issues?
For example, I'm in favor of government policies that will lead to a reduction in the number of abortions (without restricting a woman's right to choose) but that has absolutely nothing to do with my religious beliefs. It's because I think that at some point the baby becomes an individual person regardless of the baby's location inside or outside of the woman's body. However, if I were to base my opinion on my religious beliefs would that somehow make my opinion less valid?
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Naja
Member
06-28-2003
| Tuesday, October 29, 2013 - 1:15 pm
Their religion isn't what bothers a lot of people. Let them live as they wish. It's that they fervently and actively work to take away the rights of others based on their religious beliefs. That's why this subject is so hard to discuss. Those two very different things don't seem to get separated when someone defends them. And like it was posted, they have the right to rally around taking away my rights, but I sure don't have to like it or sit here and just take it take.
And since they have said over and over on their show how they don't judge the beliefs of others or push their beliefs on others, their actions show differently and I will call them out on it.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, October 29, 2013 - 2:11 pm
Part of the problem is that there is no real admonition against abortion in the Bible. So people who use it to say all abortion is wrong, are constructing something that isn't there.
In fact, the Bible offers different penalties for when you kill a child, and when you harm a fetus. The punishment for killing a fetus is not very harsh at all. And if a woman conceives through an adulterous relationship? She is to go to the priest to receive the "bitter water" which will tell if she's guilty of adultery, and, uh, terminated the pregnancy. Magically, it only aborts the baby if she's guilty.
So it is a red flag to me, because it shows that people are perverting the Bible to fit an agenda, rather than being honest.
I don't regard all religious views as equally valid, so that's why if you are motivated by a religious view, that doesn't automatically discount your view. But if that view is not well grounded theologically, I would give it less credence.
It's probably impossible to say that for the religious, their religious views won't drive their political views. However, when the religious views aren't really supported by your own religion; that's problematic to me.
And if the ONLY rationale you can provide is the religious argument, then that is outside what our constitution seems to require.
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Naja
Member
06-28-2003
| Tuesday, October 29, 2013 - 2:17 pm
Karuuna, I know you stressed abortion in your post, but this family also actively tries to outlaw alcohol, birth control, and gay rights. I want to make sure anybody reading this thread knows that it isn't just about abortion rights.
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Oliviamimi
Member
05-30-2009
| Tuesday, October 29, 2013 - 2:18 pm
I haven't seen many of the shows but have only seen them profess their faith and surround themselves with like minded people. Maybe I have missed them judging others. I don't consider their politics or religion as anything but their choice and their right. Even if it does differ from mine.
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