| Author |
Message |
Kminfinity
Member
06-29-2005
| Monday, September 05, 2022 - 5:12 am 
I use this video in class to help explain systemic racism. There are lots of good videos and articles about the topic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrHIQIO_bdQ&t=2s
People who reject its reality, which is VERY well documented, are usually trying to apply individual cases (I am white and grew up poor and got ahead) rather than looking at how a system operates to produce results that are racist.
Some good books to read. I heard Dr. Kendi speak in person and his words were measured, thoughtful, and insightful. I highly recommend his books.
The scholarly version:
https://www.amazon.com/Stamped-Beginning-Definitive-History-National/dp/1568585985/ref=sr_1_4?qid=1662379491&refinements=p_27%3AIbram+X.+Kendi&s=books&sr=1-4
or the jr. high version I taught: https://www.amazon.com/Stamped-Antiracism-National-Award-winning-Beginning/dp/0316453692/ref=sr_1_2?qid=1662379491&refinements=p_27%3AIbram+X.+Kendi&s=books&sr=1-2
Or this: https://www.amazon.com/How-Be-Antiracist-Ibram-Kendi/dp/0525509283/ref=sr_1_1?qid=1662379491&refinements=p_27%3AIbram+X.+Kendi&s=books&sr=1-1
The topic of "anti-racism" directly connects to this thread because Kendi postulates that being a "good" person who is "Not racist" and "doesn't see color" does not effect real change. Instead a person needs to be actively ANTI-racist.
This whole thread and all of the great conversations on TVCH-BB have happened because CBS admitted the systemic nature of racist casting in the past and changed how they cast reality shows.
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Dogdoc
Member
09-29-2001
| Monday, September 05, 2022 - 5:55 am
See, I think that pounding 'systemic racism' into the news day by day only keeps racism going.
Even if it is not systemic, the more you hear about it, the more you might believe it is systemic.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Monday, September 05, 2022 - 6:32 am
So telling the truth is a bad thing? I don't get that Dogdoc. Have we not all learned at this point that ignoring something does not make it go away? That only bringing it to light, and dealing with it makes it go away?
Kminfinity, thanks for that info!!
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Dogdoc
Member
09-29-2001
| Monday, September 05, 2022 - 6:53 am
'Systemic' indicates that we are 'racist to the bone' and there is no saving us.
That it is insidious, almost like original sin.
Calling it 'systemic' day after day is not beneficial.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Monday, September 05, 2022 - 6:57 am
The meaning of systemic is that it is widespread in a system, rather than localized. I don't know what 'racist to the bone' means.
And it is systemic. You might read the links that kminfinity provided.
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Dogdoc
Member
09-29-2001
| Monday, September 05, 2022 - 7:10 am
Systemic indicates that it enters the body. Each individual is racist.
What system are you referring to ?
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Earthmother
Member
07-13-2002
| Monday, September 05, 2022 - 7:10 am
No, it makes people aware that it exists Dogdoc. IT IS systemic and people do need to accept it in order for us to fix it. Facts matter. Who does it benefit to deny all of the proof? Just because it doesn't fit one's point of view or wishes doesn't negate existence.
Just because someone doesn't want to have a disease, doesn't mean they don't have one if all of the testing proves they actually do. Accepting does not mean you like it, but without accepting it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Ignoring or to deny it even exists, when it's proven to be true is risky them and for society as a whole.
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Earthmother
Member
07-13-2002
| Monday, September 05, 2022 - 7:16 am
Systemic means invading all parts. We are not and never have talked about the human body and all of its parts. We are referring to OUR SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT AND ALL OF IT'S AGENCIES.
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Dogdoc
Member
09-29-2001
| Monday, September 05, 2022 - 7:27 am
But we also refer to people as racist, especially white, pampered people.
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Monday, September 05, 2022 - 7:28 am
‘Systemic' indicates that we are 'racist to the bone' and there is no saving us. ‘
There is no saving us if burry our heads and ignore reality. And racist to the bone reminds me of several police officers we’ve all seen on our tv screens.
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Kminfinity
Member
06-29-2005
| Monday, September 05, 2022 - 7:47 am
What Earthmother said.
It's important to distinguish between systems and individuals.
However, there are people who believe that because INDIVIDUAL people can and are racist, that we can never devise systems that are not also racist.
To add onto Lilfair's comment about police: police departments are a SYSTEM. Can we establish checks and balances, rules and procedures that ensure that EVEN if a police officer is racist their actions within the system are counteracted to prevent racist outcomes.
I continue to hope for better in the future, but understand why many are frustrated. As a white female I try to guard against toxic positivity and the long held truism that our country has made and continues to make continuous progress.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Monday, September 05, 2022 - 7:47 am
Dogdoc, systemic in this case means our culture, including our government and all the systems of that culture and government. Not individuals.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Monday, September 05, 2022 - 7:48 am
But we also refer to people as racist, especially white, pampered people.
Yes, if they behave in racist ways or use racial expressions. But not if they don't.
I don't know what you mean by "white, pampered people." Generally, people are only called racist if they've behaved in a certain way.
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Dogdoc
Member
09-29-2001
| Monday, September 05, 2022 - 10:41 am
But systemic racism seems to say "We are all racist. It is built in. That is why we teach it at school. You cannot escape it."
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Monday, September 05, 2022 - 11:01 am
I'm sorry Dogdoc, that's what you think it means, but it does not mean *everyone* is racist.
It means "systems" are inherently biased toward white people. Of course individuals may not be racist.
So, you can keep balking at the term, but it doesn't mean what you keep trying to make it mean.
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Gusmonster
Member
06-01-2005
| Monday, September 05, 2022 - 12:52 pm
See, this is why I feel so hopeless in discussions like this. We just go round and round and round. We can't even agree on terms. I know talking is important but it never seems to lead anywhere. What do we DO? HOW do we change it?
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Monday, September 05, 2022 - 1:01 pm
Here's a start Gusmonster. There are lots of great resources on how to be "anti-racist".
https://mashable.com/article/how-to-be-antiracist
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Monday, September 05, 2022 - 1:16 pm
‘we can’t even agree on terms’
But we can agree. There is a definition for systemic racism.
One can’t alter the legitimate definition of things that may be uncomfortable.
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Gusmonster
Member
06-01-2005
| Monday, September 05, 2022 - 2:02 pm
Thank you Karuuna. That was a good start and I'm following the links now. Your's too Kminfinity upthread. I feel so overwhelmed these days by everything going on, it all feels so horrible, racism, politics, violence, covid... I can feel myself checking out of everything, just keeping my head down and enduring each day and I don't want to be like that. I want to be part of the solution, I want to add something good to the sum of the world,life. I just need to find a bite-sized beginning somewhere.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Monday, September 05, 2022 - 4:06 pm
Gus, I know there is a local group in my city that works to keep these things on the forefront of people's minds, and especially works to lobby our local leaders, as well as supporting candidates who will do away with local laws that keep systemic bias in place.
We're a fairly rural-rooted community, so change has been hard, but we fight every day.
For example, we promoted adding a Diversity Board to our city's many commissions and boards. The old white guys voted it down. We'll keep trying, and eventually we'll get a Council that will approve it.
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Strategist
Member
07-01-2014
| Monday, September 05, 2022 - 4:15 pm
Systemic means "system-wide". When we speak of "systemic bias" or "systemic racism", we are not talking about a person, we are referring to a system.
I tend to use the term "bias" because not all people who are biased are also racists. The term "racist" is triggering especially for people who do not understand the meaning of "systemic" in this context. They may assume we are speaking about them, as a person, when we are actually speaking about a "system" that caused undesirable behavior. Systemic bias is usually (but not always) caused by generational discriminatory practices.
Just wanted to share a quote from the latest edition of the textbook I wrote on the subject:
"Systemic (System-Wide) Bias exists within companies, government, and civil society. Systemic Biases can exist in many forms. Implicit Bias happens when someone unconsciously holds negative attitudes or stereotypes. They may not even realize that we have this bias because it is internalized. Interpersonal Bias happens when someone intentionally or unintentionally carries out discriminatory actions. Institutional Bias is when employers do not ensure employment equity. Structural Bias happens when people with position and power devalue or exclude those who do not have position and power. We can identify systemic bias through objectively evaluating specific policies, procedures, and training/development programs, and seeking feedback for continuous improvement."
I hope this is helpful.
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Strategist
Member
07-01-2014
| Monday, September 05, 2022 - 4:21 pm
The reason we teach about "systemic bias" and "systemic racism" is to educate people about what it is and what it is not.
In North America we have a deep and dark history of racism, which has helped produce the systemic bias we live with today. In my class, I quote Tanya Talaga author of Seven Fallen Feathers: Racism Death and Hard Truths in a Northern City. “Remember who you are and carry the stories forward.”
Being open to learning and knowing is the first step in breaking the cycle of systemic bias. It takes courage to be introspective and make change.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Monday, September 05, 2022 - 4:29 pm
Very helpful, Strategist!!
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Gusmonster
Member
06-01-2005
| Tuesday, September 06, 2022 - 1:30 am
That's a good idea, Karuuna. Start locally. I'm going to look around and see what's going on in my community.
Strategist, I think bias is a better word as well. There are lots of outright racists for sure, drop down to the comments section of virtually any article about anything and there it is. But for those who aren't racist, or at least hope and believe we aren't, racism can be a knee-jerk term. It does feel like a personal accusation at times and just makes you go round and round some more trying to defend yourself.
As for systemic bias, that's a fairly new idea to me. Two years ago I would have said that we all have the same legal, educational and economic rights and opportunities regardless of sex, color or sexual identity, with some abuses. It's only since retirement and Covid lockdown that I've become a real newshound and am starting to realize how things really work and putting things together to see the whole picture. It's super depressing and also really ticking me off! I just need to find that one first thread in this monstrous tapestry we've got going on and start doing my share of the unraveling.
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Dogdoc
Member
09-29-2001
| Tuesday, September 06, 2022 - 2:11 am
Strategist, thank you for your post.
I prefer bias to racism.
I still have trouble understanding how we can separate system bias from personal bias.
Systems do not stand alone. They are created by people.
How can a system stand on its own?
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