| Author |
Message |
Grooch
Member
06-16-2006
| Thursday, September 01, 2022 - 9:46 pm 
Here's the unedited version of the clip. It's in 5 parts and some of them are out of order.
Link
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Friday, September 02, 2022 - 9:27 am
Thanks, Grooch, I'll try to watch when I have more time!
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Friday, September 02, 2022 - 12:01 pm
Grooch, I"m not seeing dates on those clips. Any idea when that convo occurred?
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Brenda1966
Member
07-02-2002
| Friday, September 02, 2022 - 12:24 pm
I watched the clips. Their conversation was interrupted so I don't think we get to make any sweeping conclusions as to how Michael processed this and then reacted later. I think he's the type of player that listens and processes, don't give up much in the duration of a conversation. He did say he "didn't see it that way".
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Earthmother
Member
07-13-2002
| Friday, September 02, 2022 - 1:27 pm
Grooch I watched it, and I'm not sure what I am supposed to say. I heard Kyle pitch a white alliance, Michael listened. Michael said "uh huh" (not, I agree with you, but I'm listening). Michael also said "I haven't seen any sign of that". Other than that he did not agree at all with Kyle. It was a difficult conversation for him to be stuck in I'm sure. Michael is not a knee jerk reaction kind of guy. I'm sure he gave it a lot of though and didn't think about it until later when Kyle brought it up again, and Michael as well as production and Brit warned him. I heard those conversations out on the hammock.
Maybe you can find those later conversations so you can better understand why I do not hold Michael or Brit accountable for any of this.
It was only after Michael found out about Kyle selling them out and then trashing Joseph's character and then suggesting Monte and Taylor on the block, did he realize that Kyle had gone rogue with this white vs the others vandetta.
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Earthmother
Member
07-13-2002
| Friday, September 02, 2022 - 1:43 pm
I am going to just say this one thing and then I am not going to mention Kyle's name ever again. He is gone and that's a good thing for everyone left in that house. He put all of their futures in danger of public backlash with his plan. I do believe that many people would think that Alyssa and Turner were a part of it all. I believe that Michael and Brittany would be demonized by everyone of every race for not saying anything, regardless of when they said it. Kyle dug his own grave and I will not accept that the whistleblowers should be buried with him. OVER AND OUT, ON THIS SUBJECT for me.
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Mamapors
Member
07-29-2004
| Friday, September 02, 2022 - 1:51 pm
I am dumbfounded to be honest. Kyle is the one who said the things that are at the center of this. Not Michael, not Brittany. In a very difficult situation they tried to tell him. Kyle is the one that needs to learn and grow. Not Michael. He is a gay man for goodness sake, and has probably been the bunt of many awful comments and treatment. I just do not get how Michael and Brittany are made out to be horrible people. But that is me. And yes EM I am done with this topic.
SO has Michael said anything about backdooring anyone, or is Terrence his target?
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Friday, September 02, 2022 - 2:04 pm
I'm not saying Michael is racist but you can be gay and racist. For that matter, you can be black and racist (see Terrance for proof of that).
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Brenda1966
Member
07-02-2002
| Friday, September 02, 2022 - 2:57 pm
Yes, what EarthMother said.
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Skydiver6
Member
07-21-2006
| Friday, September 02, 2022 - 6:56 pm
I agree with most things that Karuuna, Earthmother, Brenda and Mamapors are saying.
And from way back in reply to Dogdoc, yes there is a difference between an all Black alliance and an all white one. Yikes!
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Friday, September 02, 2022 - 8:02 pm
yes there is a difference between an all Black alliance and an all white one. Yikes!
I think it would be helpful to offer a further explanation beyond yikes. 
Black Americans have been oppressed for numerous years. Therefore, when a group of black people come together and achieve a common goal of winning Big Brother, that is something to be cheered and appreciated as a nice achievement.
White people historically (unfortunately) have been oppressors. Therefore, when a group of white people come together to achieve a common goal of winning Big Brother it is viewed as further oppression and not something to be cheered or appreciated.
Yes it's hard to accept as an individual or even as a group working together on Big Brother because those individual people may not have deliberately oppressed anyone. However, at the same time they may have benefited from that past oppression and systemic bias and that isn't something to be cheered either. The history of oppression can't be ignored.
In an ideal world at some point in the future this will all become irrelevant but we are far from that point at this time.
Hopefully, this explanation is helpful.
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Juju2bigdog
Member
10-27-2000
| Friday, September 02, 2022 - 10:45 pm
quote:I am dumbfounded to be honest. Kyle is the one who said the things that are at the center of this. Not Michael, not Brittany. In a very difficult situation they tried to tell him.
Thank you, Mamapors, for distilling my thoughts on this subject. It is fairly simple, after all. Had not Kyle proposed a race-based alliance, Michael and Brittany would not have been placed in the awkward position they ended up in - remain silent and hope that Kyle hoisted himself by his own petard, or expose him prematurely, and it back-lashed on them? It was a toss-up. They chose to wait. It is not a simple equation when playing a game like Big Brother. I think they navigated as best they could.
And an obliviously naïve white person learned some adult things.
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Juju2bigdog
Member
10-27-2000
| Friday, September 02, 2022 - 11:07 pm
Jimmer, that's a good summary.
I am old enough to remember being SO elated 20-22-ish years ago, right around the time of the first Big Brother, in fact, to read that scientists had actually established that there IS no such thing as race. The scientists had then proved that we are ALL descended from the same small group of ancestors of homo sapiens, originating from Africa, and the various "racial" characteristics, especially skin colors, developed over millennia based upon the human adaptability to climate. (Kitt will be along shortly to provide links to this shockingly old news.)
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Dogdoc
Member
09-29-2001
| Saturday, September 03, 2022 - 2:17 am
When I asked "Is there a difference between an all Black alliance and an all White alliance" I was asking about it, within the confines of the game and game play.
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Kminfinity
Member
06-29-2005
| Saturday, September 03, 2022 - 5:45 am
 Jimmer and Mama! Expressed so well!
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Skydiver6
Member
07-21-2006
| Saturday, September 03, 2022 - 7:29 am
Nicely explained, Jimmer.
Dogdoc, I know you meant in the game. Still there is a big difference for the reason Jimmer nicely summed up above.
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Dogdoc
Member
09-29-2001
| Saturday, September 03, 2022 - 7:48 am
I am not questioning if there is a difference between the history of Black people and the history of White people.
I am saying that an alliance that votes people out by their skin color, can work both ways.
The Blacks united and voted out the whites.
It was good game play, but I didn't cheer.
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Sincebb1
Member
08-22-2005
| Saturday, September 03, 2022 - 8:01 am
Just watched extended interview with Kyle and Julie. They played goodbye messages from Terrance, Monte, Taylor and Alyssa. The first three said the same thing they expressed to him while he was still in the house. Alyssa left him a lovey dovey message. I was really more interested in hearing a goodbye message from the other three...Turner, Michael and Brit.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Saturday, September 03, 2022 - 8:04 am
When I asked "Is there a difference between an all Black alliance and an all White alliance" I was asking about it, within the confines of the game and game play.
Because in the history of BB, POC are voted out first. So, while you think it may not be related to the larger culture, it is. That's the nature of systemic inherent bias. Hope that helps.
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Dogdoc
Member
09-29-2001
| Saturday, September 03, 2022 - 8:15 am
I have been here since the very first BB.
As you know, I am not a believer in systemic bias.
We will have to agree to disagree.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Saturday, September 03, 2022 - 8:23 am
I can't agree to disagree about facts. 
Here is a lengthy article, with facts and statistics...if anyone is interested in more info.
https://vincedixonportfolio.com/app/big-brother-diversity/
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Dogdoc
Member
09-29-2001
| Saturday, September 03, 2022 - 9:21 am
Thank you Kar. I read the article.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Saturday, September 03, 2022 - 10:19 am
That’s an extremely interesting article. Very impressive analysis.
As an aside, it’s also interesting that BB production has contributed to the problem by creating game twists in recent seasons that encourage contestants to form immediate large cliques. It hurts anyone who is perceived as different and on top of that most viewers don’t like it anyway. Bad move on BB’s part.
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Skydiver6
Member
07-21-2006
| Saturday, September 03, 2022 - 11:07 am
Thank you, Karuuna. Spot on.
Jimmer, can you give some examples of the twists that encourage large cliques? I'm not disagreeing at all. I just have a bad memory and found your comment interesting and probable. BB has made a lot of bad moves in the past.
I do want to say that I am loving how BB and Survivor are now having many minorities and LGBTQ players rather than the token one or two each season. I've been wanting that since the beginning. And I love the games bringing up real world issues and talking about them though I have read many comments on FB etc. where people say it makes them stop watching. Last season on Survivor I was crying at a few tribals with the discussion.
Years ago I would watch all the live feeds on BB and be so immersed in the game all summer and be on these boards every day but the last few years I mostly just watch the show so when things come up like this Kyle dilemma I love to come back here and get a more insider's view from all of you.
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Skydiver6
Member
07-21-2006
| Saturday, September 03, 2022 - 11:29 am
I just read Karuuna's article and I see much better now how BB is to blame with some of the twists and how they can hurt some people. I found the numbers very interesting and was surprised it's not really as diverse as I had been thinking. Great article. And systemic bias plays in so much in so many ways. 
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