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Earthmother
Member
07-13-2002
| Wednesday, August 31, 2022 - 8:02 am 
People come into this game with their own character and principals. Taylor being a black woman who understands that so many women of color are targeted that she couldn't do it. What about the alliances we have seen since day one of this show "Bros before HOs." That one is very much used almost every year. Misogyny runs rampant in BB. But let a group of women try it and there is outrage. These are the norms in this country that need to be addressed. If it takes a reality show to address, it like a late night comedy host gets people more engaged and educated than the news, then so be it.
"It's not the time, it's not the place, it's too icky, etc, etc.." These are common things that are said when hiding it and sweeping it under the rug until everyone forgets about it, are common arguments that people are sick of.
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Maineiac
Member
08-24-2009
| Wednesday, August 31, 2022 - 10:31 am
Most of the comments made here reflect exactly how I’ve felt about this.
I liked Kyle in the beginning and thought he was very strategic and as someone put “spidey”. However, I noticed he was very hyper in his thinking and paranoia. I was saying to myself he needs to chill his mind a little. I understand the house can do that. As time went on I realized he doesn’t really stand a chance to make it to the end with how he’s all over the place.
When I heard what he said to Michael my first thought was that’s not surprising after what happened last season. I was not happy with the turn the season took and for the first time since day one, I stopped watching half way through and only kept up by reading highlights here.
It’s seems every year viewers on social media are looking for something to become outraged over, they look for someone to cancel. Two years ago Nicole lost sponsors because she laughed at something someone said. Every season something gets over blown, this year it’s Kyle wanting to repeat last season’s CO.
I grew up in a small city in northern Maine on the Canadian border. We had similar statistics that Kensiebeth posted. I had zero black people in my high school and only a handful of other minorities. I grew up quite sheltered and had no idea how black people were treated outside my bubble. I was still raised to treat people how I want to be treated. I left Maine at 23 yrs old and have lived in a military world ever since. Even though I live in Georgia now, I've been exposed to the most multicultural life possible. Growing up sheltered doesn’t always mean you don’t know better.
I watch BB for the game. For the social and strategic game play, for entertainment. It’s not fun anymore. What happen this week is so overblown.
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Wednesday, August 31, 2022 - 10:35 am
Minorities usually have an extra burden coming on this show. There is usually mistrust and weariness. As if they expect the worst of them. That’s my perception. I think Kyle falls into that category.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, August 31, 2022 - 10:42 am
For me, BB is a microcosm of life outside the house. If race is an issue outside the house (and it is), it's going to be an issue inside the house.
Things get overblown outside the house too, all kinds of things. So why we would not expect that to happen inside the house? People are somehow magically going to become less human when they are isolated and there's a whole lot of money at stake?
In fact, it's these things that make BB interesting to me. Because it's about human beings and how they behave under duress, and competition.
I don't fault Kyle for being concerned there was a Cookout 2.0, except there was no evidence this was happening and quite a bit that it wasn't (based on the nominations and evictions). It's interesting to me that he still thought it was happening. Maybe he didn't think it was happening and he was just trying to pitch a smaller alliance where he would be on top of the LOs and was looking for a reason? Or if he thought it was happening when it wasn't, then it indicates that he has some inherent bias toward people of different ethnicities.
And I don't fault Michael for not saying something earlier, and then using it when two POC (who happened to be in alliance with Michael) were going on the block. Kyle said it, it was fair to use it. And like I said, Kyle was using it for game play also, consciously or unconsciously.
It's also fascinating to me that all this conversation focuses on Michael, and not a word about Brittany, whom Kyle also approached, and who also agreed to out Kyle this past Sunday. However, he approached her one day before the house was split up, and then was out of touch for a week. I think she and Michael both hoped he or Alyssa would be voted out, and then it would become a moot point. But when they found out he had dumped their LO alliance... all bets were off. Kyle brought it on himself... first by making the comments, twice, (know your audience, Kyle!), and second by turning on the LOs.
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Maineiac
Member
08-24-2009
| Wednesday, August 31, 2022 - 11:04 am
It’s clear Michael was hanging onto this information to use when it best suited his game. So if Kyle would not have out the LOs but still seem to stay in the game last week, Michael would have still used the info down the road when he needed it to get Kyle out.
What I don’t understand is if racial issues are important to people then why be ok with Michael using it as a game move. That diminishes the cause. That’s why I can’t be ok with what he did.
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Wednesday, August 31, 2022 - 11:21 am
Brittany isn’t being taken as seriously as she should. That’s not good if she happens to be in a f2 with almost anyone I think the jury will see her as weak and a goat.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, August 31, 2022 - 11:25 am
No, Maineiac, it may be "clear" to you, but I don't think it's clear at all.
And yes, you can be concerned with race issues, and think that giving someone with the benefit of the doubt is perfectly fine, and only publicly shaming them when they continue. It doesn't diminish any cause for Michael to use it to protect to POC when Kyle was trying to get them evicted. I'm not sure why you can't see that? People just see it differently than you.
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Rieann
Member
08-26-2006
| Wednesday, August 31, 2022 - 11:48 am
Kyle’s own words-
I know the only thing that I can say ’cause I thought about that a lot,” Kyle said. “Like that has repercussions after the game.”
He thought a lot about how this would look. He knew it had repercussions outside the game.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Wednesday, August 31, 2022 - 11:58 am
We can’t think what Kyle did is shockingly wrong without thinking that Michael should have addressed it publicly when it became clear that Kyle still had the same concerns and strategy even after Michael (rather feebly) tried to dissuade him.
Of course, if we don’t think what Kyle said was all that egregious, then Michael acted correctly.
All I’m saying is it can’t be both ways.
I don’t recall this being a big deal here when it happened? Was there much discussion about it?
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, August 31, 2022 - 12:02 pm
I disagree.
They are there to win money. Saying it when it first happened (Aug 5) could have blown up Michael's game. Why should Michael bear that responsibility and lose his chance at the money?
When Kyle first said it, even *I* was giving Kyle a bit of a pass. Saying that it was fair to "wonder" if there was a similar alliance this season. But when he talked to Michael, it was wondering. When he talked to Brittany, it was to gather an all white alliance... Kyle got worse, not better.
I'm not going to be all legalistic about this. Your thinking about these things evolves over time. That is human.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Wednesday, August 31, 2022 - 12:11 pm
Believe it or not, I agree with that. I didn’t think it was that big a deal at first either and nowhere to the extent it has become. I don’t think our positions on this are very different at all. It’s been blown way out of proportion.
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Maineiac
Member
08-24-2009
| Wednesday, August 31, 2022 - 12:14 pm
Michael didn’t use it to protect a POC, he used to protect himself. Just like he is using Taylor to help HIM win.
Michael said himself to Brit he had information to use against Kyle. That tells me it was only a matter of where and when, he was going to use it if he needed to.
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Maineiac
Member
08-24-2009
| Wednesday, August 31, 2022 - 12:17 pm
That’s interesting Rieann. So it sounds like Kyle could see that it wouldn’t look good and tried it anyway. Michael I’m sure knew it wouldn’t look good but did it anyway. But a different outcome for both.
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Maineiac
Member
08-24-2009
| Wednesday, August 31, 2022 - 12:20 pm
To say they are there to win money means everything is fair game including what Kyle tried to do. There should be no repercussions for either but that is not how this is playing out for Kyle. It seems like a double standard.
And I agree, it’s been blown out of proportion.
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Rieann
Member
08-26-2006
| Wednesday, August 31, 2022 - 12:21 pm
Yep.
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Rieann
Member
08-26-2006
| Wednesday, August 31, 2022 - 12:28 pm
I think Michael will take a hit in the court of public opinion as well. There will be another nasty hashtag I’m sure.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Wednesday, August 31, 2022 - 1:07 pm
As I said, I don't recall there being much, if any, discussion about it here when the conversations between Michael, Brittany and Kyle took place. No one was agog in horror and outrage. If someone could point me to some posts here that expressed outrage at the time (preferably their own), I'd like to read them.
Of course, once social media gets going it's like a pack of wild dogs on a chase. Well played, Michael. Well played.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, August 31, 2022 - 1:33 pm
Jimmer, when Kyle first had his discussion with Michael, there was a lot of discussion here about it, and all over the internet.
Like I said, at the time, I saw it one way. As I observed more and thought more, I changed my mind. So what I thought then is not what I think now, and I've already said that.
And the KKK hashtag came out after that first Aug 5 conversation, so that had nothing to do with Michael. So I don't think it's fair to blame him for the internet outrage.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Wednesday, August 31, 2022 - 1:39 pm
LOL well you know my memory isn't always the best so I'd love to see examples of those posts. I just don't recall it being a big deal here until after Michael decided to make it a part of the game. For example, I was the person who made this thread in the first place.
We all know what the internet and social media is like so I tend to place more emphasis on our discussions here.
I agree that people shouldn't be set in stone with their positions and having evolving thoughts and views is a positive thing.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, August 31, 2022 - 1:43 pm
I'm not going to go back and do that for you, sorry. But it was August 5, so feel free to go look in the live feeds yourself. 
But it's been going on all along, in fact there were quite a few posts about how BB was protecting Kyle as well.
Your "well-played" comment seems to blame Michael for the social media outrage. I assure you, the KKK hashtag has been out there since the 5th... long before Michael said a word.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Wednesday, August 31, 2022 - 1:57 pm
Oh, although it may have appeared that way, it wasn't my intent to blame Michael for the social media reaction. As I've said before, I'm not at all unhappy with Michael bringing this more to everyone's attention. I just meant it was well played from a game standpoint.
Now that you mention it, I recall comments about BB cutting away from Kyle. In fact, I think I mentioned that in a previous post. I just don't recall much outrage here at the time about what Kyle had suggested.
But I'll repeat again since it seems to have been missed that I'm not blaming Michael for talking about what Kyle said and I don't think that Kyle should be protected from what comes out of his mouth.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Wednesday, August 31, 2022 - 2:09 pm
Well I did take a quick look back at August 5th and a little to my surprise I mostly found posts defending Kyle and stating that his position wasn't racist. Which of course is okay. I understand that people's positions can change over time and as more information becomes available.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, August 31, 2022 - 2:10 pm
Thanks for clarifying Jimmer, but it seemed like you were saying Michael should be blamed for using it for game play? Am I confused?
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Wednesday, August 31, 2022 - 2:11 pm
Exactly, Jimmer... which is why I *don't* blame Michael for not saying anything at the time. However, as I also said, things evolved since then. And my opinion, and perhaps Michael's, also evolved.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Wednesday, August 31, 2022 - 2:13 pm
I'm not at all uncomfortable with Michael revealing it. However, I am a bit uncomfortable with Michael keeping quiet and only making it an issue when it benefited his game.
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