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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Tuesday, August 30, 2022 - 9:29 am 
I thought I'd keep the thread title simple for the moment. I can change it if the subject becomes clearer. All of the drama surrounding Kyle has become a major focal and turning point of this season of BB so I thought it would be worth having a thread to discuss it.
Although I enjoy BB and follow it fairly closely, I'm sure someone else here is better positioned to summarize the situation and what we know about it as a starting point, so if anyone would like to do that, it would be very helpful.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-02-2002
| Tuesday, August 30, 2022 - 10:02 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eecybXv2LYs&t=13s
It's been posted before but this is a great recap of many people's feelings about what went down.
Personally I hope Kyle can learn from this. I think he is not a malicious person, but is sheltered and immature. Very immature. And culturally I get why his head is where it is (family, religion, region, politics). I'm sure he is remorseful in this moment. But like Taran says -- let's see where he is at in 6 months and see if this is a real growth opportunity for him.
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Katidyd
Member
07-15-2005
| Tuesday, August 30, 2022 - 10:11 am
I know when I started to see this unfold on the feeds I was thinking “oh no don’t go there”
I do think it has grown out of control.
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Bbpeach
Member
07-07-2005
| Tuesday, August 30, 2022 - 10:26 am
I don’t think Kyle was playing a winning game even without the racial thing. Maybe could get him to F2, but not the win. Not sure if he was in Po’s Pack, but if he was, outed that for the Pound. Then formed the LOs and outed the Pound to Michael and others. Then outed the LOs to form the After Party. And was loyal to none of them over Alyssa. Then there was the “fake” Five Swatters. You can’t fill the jury with people you have screwed over all of them. Some may think it good game play, but you have to look at the people that they are. My guess is at least 5 of them could be bitter, and then you lose.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-02-2002
| Tuesday, August 30, 2022 - 10:33 am
Yes, his play was chaotic, frantic. He acted desperate at times it seems he didn't need too. He was playing too hard and it caught up to him.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, August 30, 2022 - 10:49 am
Video of his Aug 5 convo with Michael:
Link here
At that point, 3 out of the 4 evicted HGs were POC.
Transcript of his convo with Brittany on Aug 17, when he continues to pitch breaking the LOs into whites versus POC:
https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/big-brother-kyle-uses-the-cookout-defend-white-alliance-plan.html/
Note: she tells him, like Michael did, that this is a bad plan and she won't be part of it.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Tuesday, August 30, 2022 - 11:08 am
There has been some suggestion that BB production tried to cover this up when it was happening. It certainly wasn't referenced on the TV shows and apparently there were a lot of live feed outages or camera switches. Cover-up or not it clearly wasn't deemed TV worthy at the time. I'm curious about how they'll present it on this week's TV episodes and if they'll feel any compunction to explain why they didn't show it earlier when it actually happened? Why didn't they show it earlier? Why is this suddenly a hot topic now?
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Sincebb1
Member
08-22-2005
| Tuesday, August 30, 2022 - 11:24 am
I do agree that Kyle was playing a precarious game. Just the continuous flipping, going polar opposite directions was enough to make everyone question his loyalties. Then add he clearly showed that his loyalty was in saving his Showmance.
I don't know if after the last flip, where he used blowing up everyone's game that was in his (latest) alliance....I don't know if he would have ever come back from that in and of itself. No one could fully trust him completely, even Alyssa.
Then you add all the other stuff. Almost like he dug himself a proverbial hole and then shoveled the dirt on top of himself.
Every year there are so many things we all get upset about. How people treat each other in this game. Things that happen in general. How people break the trust and the heart of some. Grasping at desperate straws. Somewhere along the way I have become a little disheartened that it is all in the name of winning money. Somehow it isn't as fun for me now to watch as years back.
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Tuesday, August 30, 2022 - 11:26 am
I’m still amazed that he’s 30 yrs old. To me he comes across as less mature than I would think a 30 year old to be. But being slow to mature isn’t a green light to be forgiven for acting in ways that are tinged with a racism.
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Dogdoc
Member
09-29-2001
| Tuesday, August 30, 2022 - 11:35 am
I don't have feeds, and I still don't know what Kyle said that everybody is mad about
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, August 30, 2022 - 11:46 am
Dogdoc, both of his convos are linked in my post above.
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Hwest
Member
07-01-2011
| Tuesday, August 30, 2022 - 11:57 am
At the beginning of the game I thought Michael, Kyle and Ameerah had the best chance to win it all. Kyle has amazing game instincts but he plays a messy, chaotic game. He is as reactionary as Brittany. I am not sure he had to rat out EVERYTHING about the LO alliance to save his game. Kyle does have "spidey" senses. His reactions are swift but not well thought out.
Outside of the game Kyle's remarks have been roundly criticized. The internet social media world was quick to respond to Kyle's behavior as it was happening in real time. So Kyle hasn't gotten away with anything in my opinion - at least not in the outside world. There will also be accountability at the end of the game. Kyle will be facing a very unpleasant transition back to real life.
Monte, Terrance and Turner view Michael's revelations as an opportunistic game move due to the timing of when he let the house know this information.
I don't think there is anyone in the house that has a chance against Michael in the end game competitions - except Kyle and to some extent Turner. But Kyle has blown up his spot.
I have no intention of following the Kyle saga once the game is over. There sure are a lot of "judges" out there quick to criticize but unaware of their own faults.
I find both Kyle and Michael "icky" in this situation.
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Mitch300
Member
06-02-2011
| Tuesday, August 30, 2022 - 12:40 pm
I haven’t look at links . I just watch the show and check out a few things on here. From what I can gather Kyle wanted to do the same thing the cookout did last season. Except, with white people. What am I missing. For the record I thought last season the cookout was being racist as Kyle not voting white people out is also racist. Earlier Taylor would not put up Jasmine because she was black. Basing strategy on a persons race to me is racism.
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Kensiebeth
Member
07-19-2009
| Tuesday, August 30, 2022 - 12:52 pm
I really think Kyle has lived a very sheltered life, one that didn't see a lot of diversity due to family, location, and schooling. His city only has a little over 46,000 residents, here are the demographics of Bountiful Utah:
According to the most recent ACS, the racial composition of Bountifulwas:
White: 92.63%
Two or more races: 2.82%
Other race: 1.56%
Asian: 1.34%
Native American: 0.76%
Black or African American: 0.55%
Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander: 0.35%
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Strategist
Member
07-01-2014
| Tuesday, August 30, 2022 - 1:28 pm
Wow! I didn't know that the US still looked like that in places.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Tuesday, August 30, 2022 - 1:38 pm
Very common in the more rural states. For example, there are huge numbers of Americans who have never even talked to a Muslim in person. Seems inconceivable to people living in and around Toronto but that is how it is.
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Dogdoc
Member
09-29-2001
| Tuesday, August 30, 2022 - 1:44 pm
Thank you Karuuna.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Tuesday, August 30, 2022 - 1:47 pm
The first video from August 5th that Kar posted the link to lasts about one minute. In it Kyle talks about how it's great how the Leftovers came together but he worries that another Cookout may form once people feel more secure as some of the others have mentioned how their background is important to them.
The second conversation referenced (that follows) occurred on August 17th.
quote:“Can I say something? Like that we need to be careful of, though,” Brittany warned. “What?” Kyle asked.
“I don’t know if you considered this. One thing that I really wanna make sure doesn’t happen, and I know you, and I are not doing this for what it may look like,” Brittany said. “Have you thought about just–we don’t want a scenario where it’s Taylor, Monte, Terrance Higgins, and Jasmine on one side? You, me, Michael, Turner on another side.”
Kyle chimed in, “100 percent.” Brittany continued, “Even though we know it has nothing to do with what it looks like. That’s not the kind of game we want anyone to assume we’re playing.”
“I know the only thing that I can say ’cause I thought about that a lot,” Kyle said. “Like that has repercussions after the game.”
Brittany eventually said if that ends up being how the house splits, she “can’t do that.” Kyle agreed but then brought up The Cookout.
“I agree 100 percent,” he claimed. “Oh, it’s such a fine line after last season because it was a big dominating force that was brought together because of some outside factors.” Brittany reminded him that he couldn’t assume it was happening again.
Kyle pitched, bringing Terrance into the new alliance to target Monte. “What other option does he have?” Kyle asked. “He doesn’t,” Brittany said.
https://www.cheatsheet.com/entertainment/big-brother-kyle-uses-the-cookout-defend-white-alliance-plan.html/
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Tuesday, August 30, 2022 - 2:37 pm
Kyle traveled at length in Australia, according to a bio I ran into following the above links, so he has to have encountered more diversity than we find in Bountiful.. And he has been in airports.
Still it would seem that he has been surrounded by some more narrow views in his city and state. He started to say something about people and attitudes there awhile back on feeds and the feed abruptly switched.
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Chippy
Member
08-16-2007
| Tuesday, August 30, 2022 - 5:33 pm
Ok so I watched the first convo video just after. I didn’t see what all the fuss was about. Them we hear how he just kept trying to form an all whit alliance and the above conversation is referenced. I cannot for the life of me figure out how what I’ve seen and read and watched gets to a KKKyle hashtag. Monte and Turner talked about the timing and know as well as I do that this was a game move on his part. It was Dan level genius IMO- and smarmy at the same time. He used Kyles very muted concerns and counted on the outrage that’s become expected particularly if a white guy is the “racist”. Voila…Kyle replacement nominee, outrage, meltdown, cancellation, apology tour. Lather, rinse, repeat. I don’t like it. Now I’m sure I’ll be further judged for daring to disagree.
My judgements are based on gameplay and strategy. I never cared for the showmance or Kyle much but when he whipped the LO alliance up and included Taylor, I was a big fan. Later not so much but I was a huge Michael fan from the getgo, now a little less. And I was never a fan of the cookout. To me, it was racist. And it ruined the game for my favorite strategists.
Big Brother has been a summer staple for me for so long I’ve lost count but it’s really not fun anymore - when strategy has to be PC in order to survive life after a reality show in a parking lot.
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Rieann
Member
08-26-2006
| Tuesday, August 30, 2022 - 6:12 pm
I cannot for the life of me figure out how what I’ve seen and read and watched gets to a KKKyle hashtag.
I don’t think anyone here thinks he deserves that hashtag either.
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Jimmer
Board Administrator
08-29-2000
| Tuesday, August 30, 2022 - 6:15 pm
In criminal justice, there are different repercussions depending on the severity of the crime that was committed. For example, although they are both crimes, a thief receives a different penalty than a murderer.
Unfortunately, social media and the media in general is not very nuanced in its approach to something like this. Anyone attempting to be nuanced is also at risk of being accused of racism.
Although it did happen last season, Kyle was clearly wrong to think that the POC on this season of BB were all banding together when there was obvious evidence that wasn't happening. However, that error doesn't mean that he should be called KKKyle and associated with horrible racists like the KKK.
It's that kind of extreme thinking and reaction that makes conversation and learning about racism so difficult.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-02-2002
| Tuesday, August 30, 2022 - 6:25 pm
Yeah, the people using that hashtag need to look in a mirror and declare themselves bullies. Kyle is not deserving of that hashtag.
I was not a fan of the cookout and totally see what you are saying. It has impacted the game in both a positive way (highlighting how minorities struggled in the game and were often underrepresented), but also in a negative way (paranoia and having to walk on eggshells about everything involving race).
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Rieann
Member
08-26-2006
| Tuesday, August 30, 2022 - 6:28 pm
I agree, Jimmer.
I want to say so much more on this subject but I’m having a hard time finding the right words.
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Ltrain
Member
05-10-2011
| Tuesday, August 30, 2022 - 9:30 pm
The fact that Taylor would not put up Jasmine specifically because of her skin color is exactly what Kyle was referring to. I think Michael held onto these words and used them as nuclear option to save himself, Britt and Taylor. Otherwise he should have spoken sooner.
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