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Sassyza
Member
09-03-2009
| Sunday, September 08, 2019 - 12:17 pm 
This topic seems to be coming up a lot in Live Feeds as well as Tweets so I thought I would start a separate thread for discussion.
As far as Final 3, I think it would be best for Cliff's and Nicole's game to get there with Jackson and Holly. I don't think anyone sitting next to Tommy is going to win so therefore they should get him out a/s/a/p.
As far as Final two voting: As I stated above, I think Tommy wins over anyone if he's sitting there. If Jackson is sitting next to anyone but Tommy, I think he'll win just on his comp wins. I really don't know if it was between Nicole or Cliff who would win - - I would think Cliff. I don't think Holly would win no matter who she is sitting next to. I think many look at her as just a part of Jackson.
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Wilsonatmd
Member
01-23-2001
| Sunday, September 08, 2019 - 12:34 pm
I think Holly could beat Cliff in F2- if she brings up the fact Cliff had been evicted and had to win a comp to get back in.
If I could trust Tommy, I'd say cut Holly- but I think Tommy would backstab Cliff/Nicole if he had the vote and keep Jackson.
Right now:
Tommy beats anyone in F2
Jackson probably beats everyone except Tommy
Nicole probably beats Cliff and Holly, and loses to Jackson and Tommy
Holly probably beats only Cliff, and might beat Nicole
Cliff loses to Tommy and Jackson, and would be the underdog vs Nicole and Holly
This is just a tough decision for C/N- keep the pair who trusts you or work with someone you might be able to trust? Jackson only being able to play POV is big though- you work with a 50/50 chance of getting either H or J out or have a 50% chance of getting either J or T out, and maybe a 75% chance but you don't know if you can trust him...
This is one of the more interesting endgames in a a few seasons- there may not be a 100% wrong answer, but also not a 100% right one either...
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Sunday, September 08, 2019 - 12:41 pm
Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
Sunday, September 08, 2019 - 12:36 pm Edit Post Move Post Delete Post View Post Send Seamonkey a private message Print Post
Well Jackson is not an option at this point, so Nicole can stick with Cliff and boot Tommy, as previously planned, then for HOH, she and Cliff have a good chance on one being safe as HOH and compete with Jackson and Holly for pov.
Or, Nicole can stick with Cliff and boot Holly and she and Cliff have to beat a motivated Tommy for HOH and a very motivated Jackson and Tommy for POV.
Or, Nicole can leave Cliff on the block, take Tommy off and vote with Tommy to boot Holly, or Cliff!
Or she could be blindsided when Cliff or Tommy turns on her, and creates a tie where Jackson keeps Holly and then they turn on Nicole and side with Tommy or Cliff.
Cliff will not, but could go to Jackson and tell him what Nicole is planning.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Sunday, September 08, 2019 - 12:47 pm
I agree, Tommy wins over anyone in F2.
I think Holly loses to anyone in F2.
It depends on the last comps but I think Nicole could beat anyone but Tommy, IF she has a non bitter advocate on the jury to tell just how she stepped up to win. Sadly Cliff, even if he was on the jury due to this change of heart by Nicole, would advocate for her.
Jackson, not sure. If he went out in a way he considered honorable,vans Holly was not in F2, would advocate for Nicole. With the change, maybe, maybe not.
Holly,with the change, would not advocate.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-02-2002
| Sunday, September 08, 2019 - 1:50 pm
Did Tommy really tell them he knows Christie?! If so that should seal his fate. They need to vote Tommy out. No question about it. He is a sure win in F2. And Christie will already be working the Jury if she can.
Then everyone else needs to work to get Michie out. He's the next sure win of the bunch.
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Sunnyday
Member
08-07-2014
| Sunday, September 08, 2019 - 2:01 pm
A non bitter jury would vote for Jackson against anyone. He's won more comps than anyone and lost his alliance on day 44. Cliff be evicted once and coming back wouldn't bother me if I was on the jury. I would admire how he fought his way back into the game making it to final 2.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Sunday, September 08, 2019 - 2:45 pm
https://twitter.com/i/status/1170433062829576192
Yes, Brenda.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-02-2002
| Sunday, September 08, 2019 - 5:25 pm
OK thanks. So he didn't tell Nicole and Cliff... hmmm... Such a hard decision. I wonder who Tommy would take to the end if he survives this week. We know Michie and Holly would take each other. Either way, the only way I see Cliff or Nicole winning this is if both Michie and Tommy are long gone.
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Sassyza
Member
09-03-2009
| Sunday, September 08, 2019 - 5:58 pm
Wilson - - the reason you think Holly would beat Cliff is the exact reason why I think Cliff would beat Holly. Cliff actually had to fight his way back in the house TWICE. The first night and then the night he was evicted. I think those are two things he has on his resume that should be respected. What has Holly done but spend a great part of the summer in HOH because of Jackson's wins (I know she had her own wins as well).
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Scubalass
Member
07-01-2004
| Sunday, September 08, 2019 - 8:04 pm
For me, the only way to final three for Cliff and Nicole is to do a deal with Tommy, save him this week and the aim next week is to get Jackson out. Part of the deal is Tommy throws the HOH to either Cliff or Nicole. He goes on the block with Jackson. Jackson goes as long as he does not win veto. With Holly and Jackson there they have less of a chance to get to final three.
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Molliegirl
Member
08-04-2009
| Sunday, September 08, 2019 - 8:23 pm
I copied this from the other thread. I don’t necessarily think if Tommy were in the final 2 he would have the votes. I think when the jurors find out about Tommy and Christie’s connection they will see he was only willing to save her. The person sitting next to Tommy in the final 2 has to say what has Tommy done to be there? So far only one HOH and the vetos he won only saved his partner. If it’s Cliff he has wins behind him saving himself only. Nicole’s wins save herself and take out 2 big targets Christie and Holly and maneuvered it so Jackson was powerless in the the final 4 hoh by taking out Holly. I think even if he makes it to final 3 regardless of who it is they all have good reasons to win over him unless he pulls out the final HOH or veto to get himself to that final 2. Just because all his friends are in jury doesn’t mean they will vote for him. Many jurors have surprised me at the vote. And I think Kat and Jack will not like how he lied about knowing Christie when they reacted so negatively about Holly and Kat knowing each other. I say get rid of Holly because she does weaken Jackson in this next hoh. And Tommy would probably get rid of him too because he knows he will win plus Christie told him to get Jackson and Cliff out and I think he will go for Jackson first. JMO
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Wilsonatmd
Member
01-23-2001
| Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - 10:56 am
Scuba- the issue is can you trust Tommy if he ends up with the only eviction vote at F4? That's my main sticking point to C/N saving him...
He could make a F2 deal with Jackson and save him in F4, then either C/N would have to win F3 HOH to survive- and they would likely be an underdog in Parts 1 and 2, and may not even make it to Part 3...
It's the old "devil you know" problem- you know Holly/Jackson will save each other, but Tommy is a wildcard, especially at F4. If C/N get a rocksolid F3 deal with him, they should go for it I agree- but I'm really wary of it.
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Scubalass
Member
07-01-2004
| Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - 12:49 pm
Wilson I think that Tommy knows he would not win against Jackson.
It is a hard decision in some ways but Tommy is offering to throw HOH to them if they save him, which I think he will honour.
If I was Nicole or Cliff I would rather go forward with two individuals rather that a showmance. Having said that I usually get it wrong every year
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Pamy
Member
01-01-2002
| Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - 8:02 pm
the veto winner has more power than the HOH, right? so he isnt offering much
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Maris
Member
03-27-2002
| Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - 8:05 pm
Yep, it is all about the veto
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Scubalass
Member
07-01-2004
| Tuesday, September 10, 2019 - 11:35 pm
HOH has safety but no power. It is all about the veto! 
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Wednesday, September 11, 2019 - 1:04 am
I would opt for safety.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Wednesday, September 11, 2019 - 1:05 am
Actually, If it is the one where you take a step forward or back and you cannot see the others, it is hard to throw. Harder than some.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Wednesday, September 11, 2019 - 1:06 am
And Tommy is absent while the two pairs are strategizing.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Wednesday, September 11, 2019 - 2:09 am
And Tommy is absent while the two pairs are strategizing.
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Missyb
Member
07-28-2004
| Wednesday, September 11, 2019 - 8:02 am
After reading some outside the house interviews, I think Nicole has a great chance of winning in an F2 with Jackson.
Votes Jackson does not have: Jessica,Christie,Sis,Nick and then Cliff and Tommy would be there as well.
Oh, forgot about Kat. I think she would vote Nicole over Jackson.
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Tresbien
Member
08-26-2002
| Wednesday, September 11, 2019 - 10:03 am
If Jackson gets to F2, I think he beats everyone. Christie said he played a phenomenal game, and I think Holly, Kat, Sis and Nick would vote for him. I think the only vote he doesn't get is Jess. This is why I agree that Holly needs to go tomorrow so the other three can take their best shot at Jackson. I think this will be a good F4 with all able to make a case to win depending on how these next comps play out.
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