| Author |
Message |
Firebird05
Member
08-24-2001
| Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 5:45 pm 
Some say abusers have low self-esteem. That’s why they abuse.
Abusers sometimes trully think they are better, smarter stronger more valuable than others.
They think the world revolves around them
Some people are good enough, highly evolved enough to forgive and feel compassion toward abusers.
I’ve come to terms with the fact that I’m not one of them .
Sometimes it takes a long time to find your own voice and be strong enough to speak your own truth.
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Chippy
Member
08-16-2007
| Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 5:59 pm
I specifically said it was never right. So many thing in the past were never right and yet they happened. I’m asking questions rather than accept that every accuser is a hero and every one accused is a villain. Then to bring his wife into it and accuse her of all this crap too? So now we can pick and choose the victims? How do we justify that? I guess the same way we justify we’re right and anyone who disagrees is deplorable. It’s the world I’m talking about that’s become one big hashtag.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 6:03 pm
Chippy, I sort of agree with you and sort of don't.
Forcing yourself on someone, or threatening them in order to get them to perform some sexual act was illegal then and it's illegal now. It wasn't just a "different world," it was sexual assault.
That said, there seems (to me) that there is some confusion in the movement that sweeps up people that really did nothing "illegal" just boorish. Like Al Franklin who did ONE boorish thing and then apparently hugged people too tightly.
And he got railroaded for it.
We have to have some sensibility about it. I know a lot of men who are now afraid to hire women, or even pay them any kind of complement, lest it be taken the wrong way.
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Gbcole
Member
09-20-2011
| Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 6:12 pm
Holy crap, who's blaming Julie?!
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Chippy
Member
08-16-2007
| Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 6:12 pm
Exactly Karunna. I know some too and I don’t even blame them. And I know well what’s always been illegal. My point is let’s not just toss it up to the women had no choice and the men were pigs. And suddenly we’re all gonna step up to the mike and tell our stories. Especially these celebrities that cry fowl as they reaped every benefit and didn’t worry about the women who’d likely be next to suffer the same fate. And let’s not even talk about what we used to call flirting. You’ll take your life in your hands.
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Chippy
Member
08-16-2007
| Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 6:14 pm
I’ve read some pretty ugly stuff about Julie since this started.
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Caprica
Member
02-10-2007
| Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 6:20 pm
Les Moonves was being investigated by LA Pd for forced oral sex. That is sexual assault. Was there ever really a time when a man could force sex on a woman at work and it was just "how things were"? Sexual assault is a crime and jail should be the punishment. I don't give a rats ass about him losing his job or whether his wife believes him or not.
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Firebird05
Member
08-24-2001
| Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 6:25 pm
I humbly disagree with some assements It’s hard, it hurts, it’s humiliating, to walk trough the fire,and get to the truth .
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Chippy
Member
08-16-2007
| Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 6:25 pm
People in this country are innocent until proven guilty. Or used to be. If he committed a crime, he deserves to be punished.
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Keldogg
Member
08-12-2005
| Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 6:28 pm
I think most women can figure out the difference between aggressive flirting/unwanted advances/boorish flirting compared to actual sexual assault/harrassment.
If a co-worker asked me out on a date or tried to kiss me and I wasn't interested, I'd just firmly tell him no. That's not harrassment, that's just being an a-hole.
If the same co-worker or boss tried to force me to have sex with him, tried to grab body parts, forced me to watch or participate in any sexual activity or threatened that my career would be ruined without giving in to him, that's assault/harrassment.
Sounds like old Les did a whole lot of the second example...
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Chippy
Member
08-16-2007
| Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 6:33 pm
And as karunna said , the slope got slippery and one got mixed up with the other and now we don’t even require any proof. Just accusations will do. And for the most part we are talking decades ago in so many cases.
But hearts and minds are already closed so no need to belabor it for me anyways.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 6:33 pm
Keldogg, I believed that [we knew the difference] until Al Franken was forced out. For nothing.
What Moonves did was much different. But they were treated the same.
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Gbcole
Member
09-20-2011
| Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 6:55 pm
Just accusations do not do it for me.
This is far different.
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Gidget
Member
07-28-2002
| Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 6:57 pm
I hope Julie completes this season on BB. It would be very confusing for the HG if she was suddenly gone. Especially after 9/11. Then they would likely be getting info thru the walls. It would wreck the game. I have no doubt Julie can and will finish the show.
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Firebird05
Member
08-24-2001
| Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 7:00 pm
That’s exactly why so many are afraid to speak out.
Making excuses for them saying they were boorish, over friendly, or didn’t know their behavior was unwanted. Is victim blaming.
These people know exactly what they are doing and count on other people’s excuses for them.
Just because you would have push them away, told them off or done something different does not mean others who aren’t as strong in their own self worth condoned it or deserve it.
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Jmm
Moderator
08-15-2002
| Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 7:07 pm
Here's a link to the DR when they told the houseguests about the terror attacks. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=S6omREKjPlo
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Gidget
Member
07-28-2002
| Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 7:15 pm
It was hard enough seeing our TV friends go thru that once. I don't want to see it again even if it isn't true. I watched the burn from my office across the water. Yet I felt nothing today until just watching that tape and it was instantly real again. My heart goes out to us all. We deserve a better world. I only pray.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 7:18 pm
Firebird, I think that kind of makes all women victims. As if they have no power to say no to someone. I'm NOT saying ANYONE deserved it. So let's be clear about that.
I think we do need to draw a distinction between boorish behavior and assault. That doesn't mean both aren't wrong, they are!
But there are boorish women too. Geez, look how many folks in LFD wanted to see Tyler's butt? To some, that may well be sexist and boorish also, eh?
But if a guy said that about a woman he worked with? That's all of a sudden out of line.
Let's not demonize attraction.
I don't think you're quite getting the difference I'm pointing to. Al Franken hugging someone who came up to have to have her photo taken with him is NOT boorish. Yet that's the kind of thing that got him fired? That's wrong.
All women need to learn to speak up. That doesn't mean I blame them if they don't. We all have things we need to learn.
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Firebird05
Member
08-24-2001
| Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 7:34 pm
I understand Kar. I do know the difference between someone hugging me too hard or trying to look down my shirt and someone who is demanding some kind of special favors.
I guess what got me upset is people who believe there are time limits to speaking up. I think sometimes it takes awhile to gain enough strength to speak up.
When you look at what happen to the kids in the church and the ones in gymnastics, it took a very long time to finally speak. I don’t think there is a time limit on victimization. I don’t think you can say well it took you to long to speak up so now your a liar.
I am to old, have seen too much, heard too many stories from real victims to ever believe in time stamps for the truth.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 7:41 pm
I don't think there should be time limits for *assault*. I do think there should be time limits for stupid, boorish behavior that wrecks someone's career decades later. We are all stupid and boorish sometimes.
So, that's why I eye the #metoo movement with gratitude AND suspicion. Some have sounded like they really hate men. Some have sounded the alarm on predator behavior.
*I* feel the need to distinguish between the two.
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Firebird05
Member
08-24-2001
| Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 7:52 pm
When I was in my mid twenties I did social work. I learned then that human beings are cable and do things inhuman to each other.
It’s hard to believe, it’s hard to hear and it’s incredibly hard to see. I ended up quitting because I went home to many nights and cried myself to sleep.
People do lie, they lie about what happen, they lie about what they saw, they lie about others and they lie to themselves.
No one will ever know why.
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Grooch
Member
06-16-2006
| Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 8:03 pm
FWIW, here is a thread about Les Moonves destroying Janet Jackson's career because he could. She was successful and popular. If he could do it to her, he could do it to any other woman. This is why women are afraid to speak up.
quote:Yashar Ali
@yashar
Exclusive: Multiple sources tell me that after the 2004 Super Bowl wardrobe malfunction, Les Moonves was intent on destroying @JanetJackson's career to the point where he was talking about it years later and sharing how he was exacting his revenge.
2. In 2004 after the Super Bowl, Moonves was incensed, he felt personally embarrassed by what happened. He pulled Jackson and Timberlake off of the Grammys. After Timberlake, according to Moonves, tearfully apologized, he let Timberlake back on.
3. Janet Jackson, according to what Moonves told my sources, never apologized in a similar way which infuriated Moonves. Her music and her music videos were banned from all Viacom outlets (this part has been reported before) just as her new album was coming out.
4. But that wasn't enough for Moonves, for years he talked about how she embarrassed him...when he found out Jackson got a book deal with
@simonschuster
in 2011 (CBS company) he told people heads were going to roll.
Link to rest of the thread
And from an article that he linked in his thread:
quote:but his tone when he spoke about Jackson was so aggressive, one source said they couldn’t speak to me on the record because “I’m not interested in having that man following me to the grave and trying to screw me over the whole time.”
Link
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Pamy
Member
01-01-2002
| Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 8:14 pm
JMM, I remember that like it was yesterday. it was so surreal watching them hearing the news and knowing they couldn't even imagine what we saw. They were the only people in the world to not see it all play out live
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Bonbonlover
Member
07-12-2000
| Tuesday, September 11, 2018 - 8:21 pm
‘Big Brother’: Haleigh Broucher Mocks the Handicapped – Live Feeds Outrage Fans
https://soapdirt.com/big-brother-haleigh-broucher-mocks-handicapped-live-feeds-outrage-fans/}
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