| Author |
Message |
Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, August 30, 2018 - 5:12 pm 
I agree it was inappropriate.
I don't think it constitutes a crime, he did not touch any genital area. No officer or DA would take that case.
And as I said, BB should step in and talk to JC about his behavior, to avoid it affecting Tyler's game.
But I don't think it was as bad as some of you think it is. Not by a long shot.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, August 30, 2018 - 5:14 pm
No, it's not sexual assault.
Penetration crimes
Of a body part by another body part (i.e., penal penetration of mouth, anus, vagina)
Of a body part by an object
Contact with genitalia, breast, buttocks, or other intimate body parts
Exposure of genitalia, breast, buttocks or other intimate body parts
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, August 30, 2018 - 5:17 pm
Unless you think an armpit is an "intimate body part."" 
Seriously, I think too much is being made of this. For all we know, he was truly just trying to comfort Tyler. He turned out to be telling the truth about the prank with Haleigh, even though several said he was making it up "as cover." Just like this.
He deserves the benefit of the doubt and not to be convicted on a video.
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Tresbien
Member
08-26-2002
| Thursday, August 30, 2018 - 5:21 pm
Isn't there also a condition of intent involved in sexual assault? While I think what JC did was creepy and inappropriate, I also don't think JC intended to arouse Tyler. That might be key if it was a legal matter.
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Seamonkey
Moderator
09-07-2000
| Thursday, August 30, 2018 - 5:28 pm
I think the higher issue is consent of lack thereof.
I sure as heck would not consider armpit licking to be acceptable without consent and yes, it would be intimate.
Others may have public access armpits, YMMV.
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Mameblanche
Member
08-24-2002
| Thursday, August 30, 2018 - 5:35 pm
I completely agree Sea!
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Firebird05
Member
08-24-2001
| Thursday, August 30, 2018 - 5:36 pm
I never said it was an intimate body part. I never even said it was sexual in nature. I am saying you do not have the right to put your hands on a sleeping vulnerable persons body for any reason.
Karunna I for one am trully shocked and confused that you have taken JC side in this. I know that you have been a consular and really can’t believe that you would say it’s Tylers fault and should have done something different.
It doesn’t matter one bit if it was intended to be sexual or not. We can’t know what JC’s intentions were.
My position is you do not put your hands on a sleeping person.
Not ever no matter what your reasoning is. I don’t care if they are your lover, your spouse or your friend. I don’t care if you’ve hugged them before, slept with them before or didn’t convincingly say No.
Keep your hands to yourself that’s my opinion and you can have yours but nothing will ever convince me otherwise.
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Indybarb
Member
06-25-2005
| Thursday, August 30, 2018 - 5:38 pm
All I can see before me is all the hair under Tyler's armpits. I can't even imagine how anyone would want to lick that. ACK!
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, August 30, 2018 - 5:38 pm
As noted before, It seems like the armpit kiss was accidental, that he meant to kiss his shoulder. (it was not licking).
I stated the law. You may consider lack of consent more important, but the law says it must contain certain types of contact to be *sexual* assault.
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Firebird05
Member
08-24-2001
| Thursday, August 30, 2018 - 5:42 pm
How do you know what JC meant? The law doesn’t take into account what you feel is a violation of your body.
I don’t belive anyone has said sexual assault charges should be filled.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, August 30, 2018 - 5:44 pm
Karunna I for one am trully shocked and confused that you have taken JC side in this. I know that you have been a consular and really can’t believe that you would say it’s Tylers fault and should have done something different.
I think you should re-read my posts. I never said it was Tyler's fault. I said Tyler *could* have been more forceful about setting a boundary.
It doesn’t matter one bit if it was intended to be sexual or not. We can’t know what JC’s intentions were.
By law, it does matter. And yes, you are correct we DON'T know what his intentions were, so we should stop convicting him.
My position is you do not put your hands on a sleeping person.
I said FIVE times now that it was inappropriate.
My position is you do not put your hands on a sleeping person.
I strongly disagree. I do not believe in that kind of absolute. When my DS had nightmares, I comforted him also. When I dated a guy with PTSD, I did also. I didn't wake them up to ask them if it was okay. When I was married, my husband and I lovingly snuggled (well at least in the beginning) with the sleeping other.
When I watch the video, I see someone softly stroke the knee of someone who is tossing and turning. Then reach up and adjust their night mask to recover his eyes so he can sleep. Softly touch his forehead.
*I* see these things as loving gestures for someone you care about. I do not see evil intent.
It baffles me that many of you do.
And let me just say again... I STILL THINK IT WAS INAPPROPRIATE even if I think he meant no harm.
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Firebird05
Member
08-24-2001
| Thursday, August 30, 2018 - 5:45 pm
It doesn’t matter if JC was kissing his armpit or his shoulder. Tyler was asleep. And yeah concent sure as heck matters.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, August 30, 2018 - 5:46 pm
In many legal issues, intent does matter.
If you're going to call it sexual assault, as many have, then that is a legal term.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, August 30, 2018 - 5:48 pm
Again, I never said it didn't matter. I was responding to Seamonkey's point that consent was MORE important. It is not. If I walk up to a stranger on the street, and touch their hair, I cannot be charged with assault.
If I grab a boob, I can.
Consent only matters if the contact meets the criteria of 'sexual assault' FIRST.
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Breanna95838
Member
07-08-2011
| Thursday, August 30, 2018 - 5:49 pm
It's along the lines of sexual harassment not Assault. I truly hope that Tyler family sees this and responds and acts on Tyler's behalf accordingly.
Yes, there is too much sexual harassment in Hollywood these days and yes this would fall under that category.
BB is also in the wrong by the BB night shift for not calling JC into DR right then to stop the act in progress on another sleeping cast member.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, August 30, 2018 - 5:51 pm
There was nothing sexual about it.
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Firebird05
Member
08-24-2001
| Thursday, August 30, 2018 - 5:52 pm
I already said if it’s your child someone who is close to you it’s a totally different matter.
I have three kids, so yes I have comforted them if they were having bad dreams,
Not at all the same thing.
If it was all so innocent JC could have simply woken Tyler up by calling his name, making some noise or turning on a light.
There was absolutely no need for him to stroke his chest or kiss any of his body parts.
I’m not talking about laws on the book but how it is to have someone touch you without your concent.
You see it your way, I see it mine which is fine.
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Tresbien
Member
08-26-2002
| Thursday, August 30, 2018 - 5:52 pm
From the Department of Justice website on sexual assault: https://www.justice.gov/ovw/sexual-assault#sa
From EEOC on sexual harassment: https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/sexual_harassment.cfm
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, August 30, 2018 - 5:56 pm
Yes, JC could have and should have done that.
That still doesn't make what he did sexual assault. I would suggest watching it again through the lens of thinking about a good friend comforting another. You may well see it is just that.
There was no sexual contact.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, August 30, 2018 - 5:57 pm
And let me just say this.
The problem with treating this like some horrific sexual assault is that it diminishes the very real crime of sexual assault.
It hurts people who truly have been assaulted when we start making any tiny *resemblance* to assault into assault.
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Pamy
Member
01-01-2002
| Thursday, August 30, 2018 - 5:58 pm
i read that JC also held the door open while Hayleigh was peeing and she said to stop and then yelled help to production! that plus this really does make me think he is not learning from the warnings
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, August 30, 2018 - 5:59 pm
No, Pamy... that's not what happened.
JC knocked on the door and Haleigh didn't answer, she pranked him FIRST, on purpose. She admitted this on camera. She threw a roll of toilet paper at him and laughed and scared him.
Then to get her back, he tied the door open.
She didn't seem one bit embarrassed to have him opened the door, intended for him to do so.
Then she was LAUGHING as she yelled for production and said "this isn't funny." In other words, she liked pranking him, but didn't like being pranked back, but she was still laughing.
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Firebird05
Member
08-24-2001
| Thursday, August 30, 2018 - 6:01 pm
You did say Tyler could have done... I see that as finding fault and blaming. Tyler in no way could have anticipated JC’s action. Saying he should of been more forceful is indeed blaming him.
I realize you have said it was inappropriate but at the same time it seems like you are blaming Tyler and exonerating JC.
That just the why it sounds to me when I read what you wrote.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Thursday, August 30, 2018 - 6:06 pm
LOL, he did in fact anticipate JC's actions which is why he told him not to sleep with him in the first place! He ended up relenting. He should have stood his ground. We all need to speak up for ourselves. That's not victim blaming.
How can I be exonerating JC when I keep saying it was inappropriate and that BB should step in and tell him to knock it off?
I just don't think it rises to the level of assault that many people are calling it. I think there is a good case to be made that his intentions were just compassionate and not "assault'.
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Firebird05
Member
08-24-2001
| Thursday, August 30, 2018 - 6:25 pm
I didn’t say it was assault but I also don’t believe it was compassionate.
I guess I should just bow out of this discussion. It’s way to personal for me.
My very best friend in this world was in a violent marriage. One time he beat her so severaly l that you could not recognize her face.
I stay with her held her, rocked her and kissed her tears away even when she was asleep. I tended her wounds. I did not call the police or take her to the hospital because she begged me not to. That’s what best friends do.
The big difference is she knew it was me. Concent was there.
I’ve also woken up to have someone’s hand on my body. Up my shirt or trying to get in my pants. No concent.
Law didn’t matter. Concent is central and very important.
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