| Author |
Message |
Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 10:37 am 
Yes, you can fire someone at any time. I'm just saying that if you aren't clear about policies and the reasons, they *can* sue (and sometimes win), and at a minimum collect unemployment (which YOU actually pay). If they do sue you, you will have an abundance of attorney fees to deal with. So it's unwise, unless you like to throw away money.
However, if you can show that you fired for *cause*, no unemployment is due. And while they can still sue, it's not likely a court will hear it.
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Lilfair
Member
07-09-2003
| Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 12:01 pm
My employee did collect unemployment and I did not contest. I'd do it again because I don't play nice with people that have his mindset. Money or law suits are not a deterrent for me when it comes to racism... But that is just me. Other people may find the threat of losing money or a lawsuit enough of a problem to forego their morality.
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Gumby
Member
08-14-2004
| Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 12:07 pm
If you are a small business owner who is just struggling to get by, you may not have the luxury of letting a lawsuit or losing money just happen. It has nothing to do with a personal moral code, it has to do with keeping their business alive.
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Kep421
Member
08-11-2001
| Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 12:12 pm
I think unemployment compensation is not the issue. Employers are legally allowed in all states to fire without cause. The fired person may be entitled to unemployment compensation because it is without cause, but that does not make the firing illegal.
I read on the state of Colorado's labor website that there is no cause of action against an employer who fires without cause.
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Kep421
Member
08-11-2001
| Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 12:13 pm
http://www.colorado.gov/...
This is the Colorado statute that deals with termination, Colorado is an AT WILL state.
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Brenda1966
Member
07-02-2002
| Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 12:14 pm
Didn't I read that the lady who was fired by the dentist for being too attractive lost her case??
Don't a lot of employers have morality and ethic's clauses to protect themselves. Most people don't have the time or resources to go after an employer after being fired.
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Kep421
Member
08-11-2001
| Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 12:21 pm
This site talks about employee rights...and is the one that states you cannot sue an employer just because your termination was "wrong".
Do I Have a Claim for Wrongful Termination?
Employees often think that the term �wrongful discharge� or �wrongful termination� refers to any unjust termination and that there is a specific legal claim for unjust termination. �Wrongful discharge� refers only to a specific legal claim recognized by Colorado courts that permits employees to sue for damages where an employee is terminated for opposing conduct that is illegal or against public policy. Unfortunately, there is no recognized legal claim that permits an employee to sue for a termination just because the termination is unjust or wrong.
http://www.coloradoemployeerights.com/rights/
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 12:24 pm
Brenda, she did lose her case, after 3 years of litigation and lawyer costs all the way thru 2 appeals.
You cannot legally fire someone for *any* reason, like discrimination, whistleblowing and a hostile workplace. These are grounds for lawsuits. Even in "at-will" states.
While you may fire someone for language, you may still have to deal with a lawsuit, that's all I'm saying.
It's a WISE employer who thinks about these things ahead of time, to avoid unnecessary lawsuits AND paying unemployment. Because even unemployment claims can become very costly for small businesses.
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Kep421
Member
08-11-2001
| Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 12:24 pm
The research I've seen indicates all states follow the EEOC and Fair Labor Standards (federal laws), and I've not yet found a state that doesn't follow these statutes or replaced them with statutes of their own.
Of course I've not read ALL the states, but I've been through many of them and didn't fine one that had more strict laws concerning termination of an employee.
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Kep421
Member
08-11-2001
| Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 12:26 pm
Kar... you are talking about offenses that are protected by either Title 7 or the EEOC statues.
No one is saying you can fire for those reasons... but you CAN fire someone for making racist remarks in private or on the job.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 12:29 pm
I never said you couldn't. 
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Kep421
Member
08-11-2001
| Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 12:36 pm
Kar, you said
You can only fire for violating work place written policies, and you have to give several warnings first and opportunities for the employee to fix the problem.
My documentation and research says that is not the case... then backed up my statement.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 12:48 pm
Kep, you are taking that out of context. Thanks very much. 
I also said:
Yes, you can fire someone at any time. I'm just saying that if you aren't clear about policies and the reasons, they *can* sue (and sometimes win), and at a minimum collect unemployment (which YOU actually pay). If they do sue you, you will have an abundance of attorney fees to deal with. So it's unwise, unless you like to throw away money.
So there you go. The whole story.
Which is exactly why a *REAL* Colorado employment attorney advised us on how to handle these situations in the future. By having a clearly written policy manual that included reasons for *immediate* firing, and by giving notice and a chance to correct poor performance. To avoid lawsuits and unemployment.
And which is also why that *real* attorney advised us to have a dismissed employee sign away her right to sue for "wrongful termination" in exchange for severance. His language. The lawyer.
He also noted that the mere existence of a an employee manual constitutes a *contract* and contracts in the state of Colorado *superceed* employment-at-will.
So what you look up in my state is fascinating, but I'll go by what the attorney advised. I think that's the wisest choice for me.
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Kep421
Member
08-11-2001
| Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 1:02 pm
< never ever claimed to be a "real attorney" <99>.
I posted verbiage from the actual gov sites, so I standby my statements.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 1:06 pm
As I said, what you look up on the internet in my state is fascinating, but I'll go by what the attorney advised. I think that's the wisest choice for me and in fact, any employer in Colorado.
Because it is their profession and daily living, they would know more about what kind of lawsuits are filed, are won, and what an employer must do to protect themselves. JMO.
And it bears repeating, if you have a contract with an employee (and the Colorado Supreme Court has found that even an employee manual constitutes a contract), "at-will" is out the window.
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Mamapors
Member
07-29-2004
| Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 1:09 pm
Will Paula Deen sue the Food Network? Is her firing something she can sue over? Because they basically fired her for racist comments made outside of the scope of her job.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 1:10 pm
As I understand it, they didn't fire her. They chose not to extend her contract.
""Food Network will not renew Paula Deen's contract when it expires at the end of this month," the statement said. Network representatives declined further comment. A representative for Deen did not immediately return phone and email messages seeking comment on the decision."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/21/paula-deen-fired-food-network-cancels-show-after-racism-scandal_n_3480517.html
They also canceled her show, which was within their contractual rights.
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Mamapors
Member
07-29-2004
| Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 1:12 pm
ahh, ok. That is different.
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Karuuna
Board Administrator
08-30-2000
| Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 1:13 pm
Yes, the headlines all used the word "fire" but it's not the correct term legally.
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Missyb
Member
07-28-2004
| Monday, August 19, 2013 - 7:08 pm
Wil's new video:
http://forums.jokersupdates.com/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Board=BBMedia&Number=20499721
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Juju2bigdog
Member
10-27-2000
| Monday, August 19, 2013 - 9:58 pm
Oh man, those are SO funny. I sure would like to know what Julie Chen thinks of them. I bet she laughs herself silly. Julie Chen in the brown paper bag for Thursday's show was SO spot on.
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Egbok
Member
07-13-2000
| Tuesday, August 20, 2013 - 7:59 pm
I enjoyed watching this youtube. Thanks for posting it.
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Shenanagon
Member
07-28-2009
| Wednesday, August 21, 2013 - 6:10 am
Am not a Evel Dick fan but I like this blog he did recently on the MVP twist.
http://eveldickdonato.blogspot.com/2013_08_01_archive.html
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Lainee
Member
07-19-2005
| Wednesday, August 21, 2013 - 6:18 am
Not an Evil Dick fan either...
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Lainee
Member
07-19-2005
| Wednesday, August 21, 2013 - 6:28 am
I could not get past the first 3 paragraphs...so I do not know if it is good or not!
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