Archive through January 15, 2001
The ClubHouse: The Game II - Mysterious Puzzler: Discussions/Challenges:
The Truth About Gay Lifestyles:
Archive through January 15, 2001
Elitist | Monday, January 15, 2001 - 07:51 am  Newamush has consented to talking about his views on gay lifestyles, so I am going to start a thread. To start off the media has made the gay scene such a prevalent part of our culture that it is hard to know what to believe. If you believe what you see in the media, you would not be able to turn around without stumbling over a gay man or woman. But what is the real population of gays in America/Canada, and what is your chance of associating with a gay person, whether you knew it or not. Secondly, the stereotype of gay men has changed dramatically over the past 20-30 years. It used to be that gay men were potrayed as effeminate middle aged balding men. Now they are potrayed as these muscular, good-looking young men. And almost always they are very promiscuous and fickle. Now how much of this is true, or are we just seeing the potrayal of the extremes of gay society? |
Spamgirl | Monday, January 15, 2001 - 08:08 am  Is "But what is the real population of gays in America/Canada, and what is your chance of associating with a gay person, whether you knew it or not" a question? If it is... you have to figure - do you count only open, out of the closet homosexuals? Or do you include bisexuals too? And what about homosexuals who will live their entire lives "straight"? From http://www.promotionswest.com/gaydemo.html : "Although estimates vary wildly, the U.S. gay and lesbian population is probably somewhere between 7 and 25 million." From http://www.census.gov/cgi-bin/ipc/idbrank.pl : The population of the US is currently 278,058,881 |
Newamush | Monday, January 15, 2001 - 08:22 am  I couldn't even begin to give any statistics on numbers of gay people, but, from my experience, could swing a cat by its tail and not miss a gay person (whether you know they are gay or not). Even as liberal as the times have begun, I still know quite a few people (mostly in smaller, rural areas) that HAVE to stay in the closet. Plus, you have to take into consideration: Are you discussing openly gay people, closeted people, bi-sexual. In regard to stereotyping, these guys have always been here, but since it has become more acceptable to "come out," more are doing so. Just remember that as there are tall, short, thin, fat, muscular, non-muscular straight people, there are a variety of gay folk of every shape and size. I guess, in sum, gay people have changed in being open about our sexuality, but so has the media changed the way they deal with it. And since the media has the largest influence on people (and I'm excluding more urban areas with a higher concentration of homosexuals) the general public is seeing the more diverse nature of our ranks. I have a really big butch friend that has always said, "I may be a , but I'll still kick your ass." Some people keep forgetting that we're still men regardless of what we do in bed. Kinda babbled. I can be more specific, just ask. Your Kindly Ole Fairy Godmother. |
Elitist | Monday, January 15, 2001 - 08:34 am  Well I guess what bothers me is that the media seems to be glorifying the gay lifestyle by how it presents it to the public. If you present it as middle aged lechers after young boys, then it becomes a dirty thing. On the other hand if all gays are presented as beautiful people, you glorify it. Just as the first puts an undo burden on homosexuals and their feelings about themselves, isn't the second a type of proselytizing that really has no place in a persons sexual preference? I mean is it not wrong to present such an image that would make young impressionable minds question their sexual preference, and possibly do harm? Rambling seems to be epidemic. |
Cammie | Monday, January 15, 2001 - 08:34 am  Very interesting. New, do you think that the media is portraying gays fairly, in general? |
Newamush | Monday, January 15, 2001 - 08:40 am  Cammie, I think that now the media is going a little bit farther in the other direction. Trying to make up for the bad press so to speak. As with anything, you'll find the answer in the middle. Elite, I see absolutely no problem with giving a young person the something to think about in regards to their sexual preference. Hey, it's a real life issue and if addressed in the proper way, we could probably avoid the large percentage of young gay suicides. Unfortunately, kids are still being taught (at least outside of urban areas) that being gay is wrong, leading them to believe that the feelings they have are wrong. I have always been a huge proponent (?) of teaching that the gay lifestyle is not a choice, it's a "LIFESTYLE." You don't choose to be straight, you don't choose to be gay. You are who you are. I wish I had more positive influences when I was younger (and maybe larger pantyhose sizes -- lol) |
Spamgirl | Monday, January 15, 2001 - 08:43 am  Elit... really... you're telling me that they don't show straight people in the media as being beautiful too? I'd say, when you look at percentages of air time versus what the person looks like on BOTH sides... you've got your beautiful gay men... and you've got your Ellen Degeneres'... and then you've got your Jennifer Love Hewwits... and your Rita MacNeils.... And when you get down to "impressionable minds"! Being gay still isn't accepted in society, and it's CERTAINLY not promoted (well, maybe IN the gay community ;)... so anyone who "becomes" gay because there are pretty men on the TV who are gay... well, really, if the reason they "turned gay" was because of pretty gay men on TV, they're already gay! but, if someone did "become" gay because of it, then it's more than the pretty men involved... because it's hard enough being born gay... CHOOSING to be gay, that would be suicide... |
Elitist | Monday, January 15, 2001 - 08:48 am  New - you crack me up - how many times have you really worn pantyhose LOL. Stop with the "I'm an old f@g" routine before I hurt something laughing. I see your point for gay youth, but what about straight youth? Couldn't this lead to experimentation that could be harmful for them? Isn't it just as bad for a straight person to think he is gay as a gay person to think he is straight? (did that make any sense?) By the way, I have two cats, swung both of them, and didn't hit a gay or lesbian with either of them. What am I doing wrong? |
Guruchaz | Monday, January 15, 2001 - 08:48 am  Look at how AIDS was first perceived when it came out in the media around 1984. It was hailed as a "gay disease". I'm speaking from a straight viewpoint, but I still see that connotation hanging in there today. Even in random conversations you overhear, it's "I don't understand gay people. Why do they want to risk getting AIDS and spreading it to everyone else? Don't they know what they are doing to the population?" I've actually heard stuff like that. My circle of friends coincidentally doesn't contain any gay individuals so I'm interested in New's viewpoints. |
Guruchaz | Monday, January 15, 2001 - 08:50 am  Also Elitist, Moon and the ASPCA will be in touch with you shortly. uh huh huh  |
Elitist | Monday, January 15, 2001 - 08:53 am  Spam I agree that media presents beautiful people in general, but I also think they show us unreal situations and population demographics in an effort to push us to their idea of what is socially acceptable. Personally I feel in most cases this has been desirable, however I really don't like the idea of something so powerful being able to manipulate so many minds. |
Elitist | Monday, January 15, 2001 - 08:54 am  Guru - apologize to Moon this instance. |
Guruchaz | Monday, January 15, 2001 - 08:59 am  Ok, let me go out and tell her. Uh huh huh (Yes, another smart ass comment) Just kidding. |
Newamush | Monday, January 15, 2001 - 08:59 am  Looking from my point of view, why shouldn't I have the opportunity to see hot guys getting it on together. We may be a small percent of the population, but becoming a very strong power. I actually hate this saying, but I think it definitely applies to the current state of things We're Queer, We're Here, Get Used To It. |
Elitist | Monday, January 15, 2001 - 09:07 am  New, I don't think I am criticizing your gay lifestyle as much as I am the media. Hey, I also don't like how they present straight sex and violence either, especially since I now have young kids and have become extremely sensitized to it. If you believe the media, we would be having sex with everyone we know, and killing everyone we don't know, while living a lavish life style with no visible means of financial support. So what do you think of the Showtime series "Queer as Folk" (I think that is the name of it)? |
Spamgirl | Monday, January 15, 2001 - 09:07 am  Well, elit... the media isn't telling people to be gay, is it? Quite the opposite, as far as I can see... like how Lily Tomlin just "outted" herself - everyone is talking about it, and how if she'd done it 30 years ago, she wouldn't be where she is today... even doing it NOW will really reduce her opportunities... and the fact the media GASPED when it happened, shows that they aren't promoting it. |
Spamgirl | Monday, January 15, 2001 - 09:08 am  So Elit, if you're criticizing the media, why did you drag New in here? |
Elitist | Monday, January 15, 2001 - 09:14 am  I guess I just went off on a Dennis Miller rant Spam. Actually I think they want to say that being gay is alright, but as usual they overdo things to the point that it says "if you aren't gay something is wrong with you". Maybe that is a bit harsh. |
Spamgirl | Monday, January 15, 2001 - 09:16 am  Grin elit, i hear ya |
Juju2bigdog | Monday, January 15, 2001 - 10:23 am  I just spent five years working in san francisco not too long ago. You dang sure couldn't walk down the hallway in my office and swing a cat and not hit a gay person. I absolutely agree nobody decides to become gay. You either are or you are not. elit, if one of your kids is going to "become" gay, there is absolutely nothing in the world you can do about it. S/he is either gay now or not. |
Juju2bigdog | Monday, January 15, 2001 - 10:27 am  Elitist - this is a way better thread than einstein, which does seem to be right up there with the knights of whatever thread. Newamush - don't know if you knew this. a gay man played in game I. He ended up in the top four. |
Newamush | Monday, January 15, 2001 - 10:34 am  Elite....I didn't take it as critcizing at all. From a gay man's point of view, it's our time. We're not being more bold because we want to recruit members. As I said, we're just stating that we are here, we are the same as anybody else. And I think "Queer as Folk" is great concept, poorly executed. Alot of what goes on in the show is realistic, but I think the writing is horrible. and I agree with Juju, you can't become gay, you accept it. and Juju, I guess now I have to get past the top four and make a name for myself |
Elitist | Monday, January 15, 2001 - 10:54 am  Ok here is another politically incorrect question or misconception. It seems that women are more attracted to men based on personality and committment, and are better at long term relationships. Many times older men are attractive to them because of their maturity, stability, and wealth. Men on the other hand are attracted by youth and looks and like to play the field more. Men tend to look for mates that are younger than them and attractive. Doesn't this behavior make it more difficult for older and/or unattractive gay men to find mates, even more so than lesbian women or straight men and women? Do gay men follow this pattern, thus making it more likely for couples to split up, and thus more likely for older gay men to be single? Hey I told you it was PI. |
Elitist | Monday, January 15, 2001 - 10:56 am  Juju - your San Francisco story is good. I had a young guy working for me that lived there for about a year after he was out of college. The way he told it is his roommate and he would decide to go out on a Friday, his roommate would tell his girlfriend, and the next thing you knew these two straight guys would be out on the town with about 15 to 20 single women. Apparently a straight, single guy was a hot commodity. |
Juju2bigdog | Monday, January 15, 2001 - 11:13 am  Newamush, of course, the person who won game I was a woman playing unbeknownst on the men's team, which is why I tried so hard to get on the boy's team. Juju2troublemakingdog
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