Deep Thoughts: Learning Forgiveness
The ClubHouse: The Game II - Mysterious Puzzler: Discussions/Challenges:
Deep Thoughts: Learning Forgiveness
Guruchaz | Thursday, February 01, 2001 - 07:22 pm  No, it's not by Jack Handey. Just some deep questions. At what point in your life did you learn to be more forgiving? Under what circumstances? Also, do you feel you hold grudges and why? |
Elitist | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 09:25 am  Though you may not believe it, I have a hard time holding grudges. Not to say I don't get angry at people, or find people I do not care for, but in general my anger is short-lived, and I like to reconcile quickly. My problem has not been to learn how to be forgiving, but to learn how not to forgive. Because there have been people in the past 15 years of my life that have done things that are truly inexcusable, and they show no remorse, and if I forgive them I am just enabling them. Perhaps I should elaborate. We seemed to have been plagued with addictive personalities. In one case an alcoholic man plunged his alcohol/drug dependent wife in even deeper. And he was abusive, etc., etc., as was she at times - to themselves as to others. And it directly affected us quite a bit. In another, someone had a gambling addiction to the point that he lost everything he had, including his mother's home, and his health suffered to the point that he almost died. Again it had direct affects on us. So maybe we are not talking about forgiveness, but if you give addictive personalities the benefit of the doubt before they have fully come to grips with their disease, you end up enabling them, not helping them, and you invariably get hurt in the process. So I have had to learn how to harden my heart such that I am not taken advantage of. On the other hand, I have had people do some pretty awful things to me in the past that I have forgiven, and hold no grudge. The classic is when I was in college, my best friend and my girlfriend attended another college and began dating without me knowing it. Pretty sticky situation. But in the end, we patched things up pretty quickly, we were in each other's wedding (he was my best man), I am the godfather to one of his son's, and he is my kid's pediatrician. Hey, now that I think about it, he also slept with another one of my girlfriends after we broke up. Maybe I need to reconsider all of this |
Guruchaz | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 10:20 am  LOL! Memories... So, the really tough ones are the one's that really affect you repeatedly and drag you down? Were these people like next door neighbors or friends? Just curious. |
Elitist | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 10:25 am  Family and don't ask. |
Guruchaz | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 10:25 am  Got it. I won't. |
Azriel | Friday, February 02, 2001 - 05:15 pm  Gu, there were 6 kids in my family and plenty of disagreements to go around. My mom was very adamant about teaching us forgiveness. Her motto was 'Don't let the sun set on your anger' When we were young if we got in a big argument, my mom would set us down at the kitchen table and we had to tell our sibling one reason why we loved them and tell them we were sorry. Noone got away if mom thought their reason or apology was insincere. She was rough. I remember times when I sat across from the table from one of my brothers for hours without either one of us giving in, but most of the time after 10 or 15 minutes we bit the bullet and said something acceptable to mom and apologized. I'm happier when I let go and forgive. |
Azriel | Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 10:03 am  Guru, the little bash war you and Spam have going that you continued last night in chat got me thinking about this thread this morning. I don't understand why this is something that you and Spam can't just let go of, even if you don't forgive each other for whatever started it all. If you didn't really care what the other person thought then wouldn't you just say this isn't worth my time and emotions? For myself, if I really didn't care what a person's opinion of me was, I'd take the 'talk to the hand' approach and whatever they said to me would just be met with silence till they got tired of it and went away. On the other hand, if you do care and you really want to resolve whatever the conflict is, then you need to realize that your approach isn't working and is only damaging any chance of resolution. You should find a new approach or just give up. I don't see anything worthwhile gained by the insults you two hurl at each other. Stop the madness!  |
Elitist | Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 09:44 am  I guess I am going to throw my two cents in here on the Gu/Spam thingy. I know we have talked about this before, but here are some new thoughts. Hope it doesn't open up a can of worms. What brought this about was your becoming a Mensa member and the story you told. And I guess you know that Spam is a member of Mensa also. So I am beginning to wonder if the reason you and Spam go at it like you do is because you are so much alike. You both are extremely intelligent, young, and passionate about what you do - you played the sarcastic nerd Guru to the hilt on the outside board - Spam has this passion to know and be able to do everything. Both of you don't seem to enjoy formal education that much. Both of you seem to be rebels. Both of you can get into flame wars that make my screen shrivel. Here is a possibility I would like you to consider. Is it possible that looking at Spam is like looking at a mirror, and you see faults in her that you are afraid exist in yourself? And in trying to deal with this, you lash out at her as an extension of yourself instead of dealing with what is really bothering you - self doubt? ---------------- Hmmm. Let this set for a while as I did some real work. Looking over this it looks like I just took a course in mail-order psychology. Maybe DrDrewDigi and I can set up practice when I get out. But heck - it is a good conversation piece so I am going to let it fly. |
Guruchaz | Wednesday, February 07, 2001 - 02:56 pm  A lot of our thoughts scream "Stalemate"! Once an impression is made, it's usually hard to change. That's usually about the first 5 or 10 minutes of talking to someone for the first time. If I remember right, I don't think I had a terrible view of Spam in the first 5 or 10 minutes but then some memories tend to fade. Who knows? |
Merlin | Thursday, February 08, 2001 - 05:25 pm  Forgiveness. This is definitely something I am still learning. In the past there was very little forgiveness given on my part. What I have learned for myself is that my forgiveness is proportional to what I understand about the person I should forgive. The more I understand the person, the more I can forgive. I have learned that the things people do, generally are tied into what they have had to do in the past. Understanding their past allows me to determine if what has happened was more automatic than intentional. One area that I still do not forgive is when someone lies to me. This still remains in the realm of unforgivable. If I chose to lie to someone, it would mean that I have absolutely no respect for them as a fellow human. This is the way that I look at it when someone lies to me. Do I hold a resentment for this? No. What does happen is I withhold. |
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