Lancecrossfire | Friday, January 26, 2001 - 04:59 pm  The following opinions are mine only, and may not represent the opinions of current TVCH members, current BGs, the moderators, the game moderators, Neil, Lisa, anyone living, anyone in a coma, or anyone dead. Some of the text won't even be opinion—it will be thoughts that someone could develop on upon about. I include them to try and be objective about all issues and possibilities. First I’d like to say that I created this because the idea of dissecting what happened with the debate seems to span many issues, many ideas, and many people—so I didn’t want place it into any BGs folder or thread to make it look like I though it was just about them. If you want to join in and give your own views, please do. If you agree or disagree with anything I present, please feel free to say so. I saw this as a complex set of issues, all intertwined, and so will talk about some things all rolled up into one, yet I do realize they are also separate (although again, opinion here). If I get anything wrong as far as how I thought it happened, please correct…it was not intentional, or may be my perspective of something…again, that is by definition, opinion. And yes, it’s a long post—as I said, for me it seems like there are lots of points to consider. I didn’t want to gloss over anything. Well, first of all, for me it starts even before the debate time. It starts with the teams getting ready. From my perspective, it’s not important what the plans are, and also, I was told not to share either team’s plans. What I did notice was that one team took more time to prepare—to plan. Team grassyknoll. Team tidalwave got together just before debate time. With most people at work that day, it was Spam who had done most of the research. In my opinion, this is an important point (not Spam doing the research—them having different preparation times and approach to the game). Grassyknoll folks work too—they just went in earlier and spent more time preparing. So, debate time arrives, and Ocean indicates he is sick, and won’t be able to participate. An opinion I have right up from is the two different “postures” each team went into this with, and neither team new the posture of the other, at least at the beginning, before emotions got heavily involved. (notice that it’s my opinion emotions did get involved---there is no post to prove that point—although some did say it to be the case) Tidalwave seemed to feel that they were not well prepared, that they didn’t really have an organizational approach set up, and that they weren’t quite sure what would even be potentially covered. Grassyknoll had topics to bring up, thoughts about what might be thrown at them, and a plan as to who would cover what, and who would take specific roles. So, tidalwave goes into this feeling ill-prepared. From personal experience, ill-prepared can mean less confidence, as more relaxed posture, such things as that. Grassyknoll left their chat room with each having a purpose—a direction to focus. They seemed more “up for the game”—pumped up if you will. So, when OI has to withdraw for being sick, the two teams try to figure a way to make it work. Here is where I believe the two different postures come into play. Tidalwave offers to have Spam speak twice. Well, grassyknoll suggests Azriel speak twice. Could it be because they think Spam has had more time to prepare, and therefore feels this gives them an advantage compared to having any of the others speak twice?? Personally, I think so, although I don’t have a sworn statement from any Grassyknoll folks saying so. Grassyknoll doesn’t know that tidalwave isn’t very prepared—they don’t know that tidalwave isn’t too confident to begin with. (btw, I’m NOT saying that tidalwave should have told them this—and I’m not saying they shouldn’t have) If I understood things correctly, it seemed that Guru thought Ocean might have given up a bit too easily, that grassyknoll thought it would be more fair to have someone other than Spam go twice. Ends up that another option comes about---have 2 from grassyknoll go, then alternate…no one goes twice—tidalwave finishes. Another idea on the table is alternating, but grassyknoll would finish up. Tidalwave thinks that is an unfair advantage. Suggests one of their folks goes twice or alternate so that tidalwave finishes. Now we have Elitist at a point where he has to go dealw with getting his daughter down----they’ve used the time they would have debated for this discussion, and now Elitist is out of the picture for at least awhile, and it’s now 2 folks for tidalwave. They now realize that nothing can be done at this moment to have the debate. So, now tidal wave is going to forfeit and give grassyknoll the win, although they have some things to say. Ay this point it starts getting ugly and there are many things said that don’t have much to do with the issue of the debate. Emotions get included, and it breaks loose. Things like being cutthroat is thrown out, things like a desire for one person to make the rules is thrown out there, and it just got worse. Hostess is in the middle of this, giving suggestions for compromises, as well as asking them for suggestions. (before all this, during this, and after this) Ok, so, some concepts to chew on. It’s a game—rules are provided. If you can’t go by them, then a team must be disqualified. (not saying that should happen—saying that is one way to look at it) It’s a game, and see if there is a way to carry it on that both parties can live with, as well as the hostess. (not saying that should happen—saying that is one way to look at it) Reschedule for a different time—and by the way, that was also discussed as one possible solution, although was figured out that in the near future, it wasn’t going to happen. (not saying that should happen—saying that is one way to look at it) Does Hostess1 tell everyone how it’s going to go down, or does she let them decide on their own??? All you folks who’ve coached might be able to work through this one from an example you have experienced yourself. Something in the game goes bad, like maybe your QB has already throw 3 interceptions in the first half. It’s your call to make—do you take control and decide for him or her how the rest of the game is going to be for them (benching), or do you let them stay on the field and watch to see how they react to adversity?? If you choose the former, the advantage could be getting a QB in that won’t throw any more INTs. Maybe they will, although you’ve taken a proven bad situation and directed how it’s going to go. In terms of learning how your QB reacts to pressure and a bad situation, you learn nothing—and over time you want to know how your QB can do in both good and bad conditions. So, you choose to let them stay on the field. The QB may go to hell in a hand basket (costing you 1 game for sure), the QB may mentally and physically work their way through it, or their day may just continue on the way it had been. But in doing this you know what to expect in the future, or at least what to have them work on to improve mental toughness. Hostess1 seems to have chosen (especially based on her recent reply to another post) to take the latter approach. So, she chose not to take control and determine how the debate would be carried out. Opinion time again!! Disadvantages for letting them come up with their own solution: The feeling by others that she doesn’t have control of the game, unless it’s made clear she had “method to her madness”. That people would be bothered for not making a choice, and getting the challenge set to go so that it would happen for sure. That some feel as the “coach”, it’s your responsibility to cut the losses and draw a line. That someone would win immunity, as planned. That all this could have been avoided. Advantages for letting them come up with their own solution: The BGs determine their own fate. The BGs show themselves and everyone how they deal with such a situation under those conditions at that specific time. The BGs show us how they deal with such a situation under those conditions at that specific time. That we have the BGs true feelings to go by when we vote—hostess didn’t squelch the way they are. The BGs get to see true feelings to go by when it’s time to nominate. That this can provide for some really great discussion for the BGs and for the watchers, no matter how it came out. That each BG has a platform on which to further enhance or un-enhance relationships with the other BGs---letting reality be the force that determines interactions, instead of facades, if any are present (even a compromise would have succeeded in this). That all of this wasn’t avoided. Frankly, I like the latter. (note—my opinion—see disclaimer at the top) I look at it long term. What each BG get out of getting to work through it themselves (no mater how good or bad it turned out) What we get in terms of learning about our fellow BGs. How the game is affected by true thoughts, feelings and emotions that are not put into check by a choice from “the coach”. In either case, I respect Digi for either choice she would have made…that is a tough position to be in. Every action you take affects the game. Armchair QBs are a dime a dozen. Those that give it a try know what the perils are, and will always earn my respect. (yes, I know in the big scheme o life my respect doesn’t add up to all that much—just wanted to say that I respect anyone who goes for it in life) Ocean is sick—what does that mean to the debate?? I would like to give the opinion that he did want to be in it, and that he had earlier said that because of everyone’s schedules being weird, to stick with the original time and just go with who could be there (from a discussion earlier in the week). On Elitist and his girl: he indicated ahead of time this commitment. He was there to debate when he said he could be, although it didn’t come off, and he also cam back after he got his daughter down. I covered these two because they were gone for at least part of all this. Personally I don’t think OI bagged out (Guru brought that up). Opinion on my part. I saw where he posted a RR where he said it was something like food poisoning. So, at least I got that opinion close to how it seems to be. I left out most of the major disagreements once it got emotional and personal. I also left out how it ended. I just wanted to provide something on part of the whole thing. Feel free to add anything you want on the other aspects of it. Well folks, once you wake up, remember just my humble opinions...and lots of them. Feel free to join in or walk away shaking your head wondering why the heck I even bothered. |