Archive through January 21, 2001

The ClubHouse: The Game II - Discussions: Game II Discussions: How do you make your voting decisions?: Archive January 20 - 27, 2001: Archive through January 21, 2001

Soeur

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 03:51 pm Click here to edit this post

If a person makes their vote based on some criteria other than who played the best game then the best person will not win. In the game being played here there are strong contenders of both sexes and it is just a bit of fun to rally around and jeer at what Merlin said in the RR. It read as though he did not see a woman as being on the same level as men - where playing the game is concerned - juju alone would cancel that out as a valid thing to say. Merlin's statment (probably unintentionally) drew a gender line in the sand and we hens just got clucking about it ~ am I right on this fellow peckers? (see we can get it up too...)}

Lancecrossfire

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 03:56 pm Click here to edit this post

I did Wink--and I'll admit to being totally confused and/or dense. What does reason number 1 for flirting have to do with the exchange we having about the above issues?

Moon, you guys didn't just say it would "be nice". My even voted that way, and said so. You both indicated that as long as a woman won, that was all that mattered.

I'll ask again...how would it be taken if two guys in the game said, :I don't care who wins, as long as it's a man"?? Would you be offended or bothered?

I know I felt "dismissed/hurt" when I was basically told that the reason it was desired I shouldn't win was because I am male. (by saying as it doesn't matter who wins as long as it's a female, I consider it that those people are saying to me, I shouldn't win because I'm a male)

I don't see the validity of saying a ceratin team in sprts should win a game because they haven't won before. They should win because they are the beast team, or judged to be the best. No matter how many times they have won--or not.

Moondance

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 03:56 pm Click here to edit this post

peck peck Yes peck peck peck... to Sis

Moondance

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 03:59 pm Click here to edit this post

>>>Moon, you guys didn't just say it would "be nice". My even voted that way, and said so. You both indicated that as long as a woman won, that was all that mattered.<<<

OH PLEASE... I want proof of that!

So me voting for you for first place makes me a lair! Thanks Lance

Moondance

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 04:00 pm Click here to edit this post

You have just lost a supporter Lance!

Gail

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 04:06 pm Click here to edit this post

i dont recall that lance was the one who made this a gender issue. that happened when merlin made a comment that for some reason pissed off a few women who decided to go on a witch hunt - wether it was fun or not, it went too far. they turned it into calling him a sexist or whatever and even sent 3 banners up about it (i found that a bit excessive.) i still do not think merlin meant to offend. i did not take offense at what he said.

Lancecrossfire

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 04:08 pm Click here to edit this post

Moon, I didn't call you a liar. I told you what was posted in the game. May made that statement, and you agreed with her (I take that you mean that you believe the statement to be true) I you can tell me how I should have taken it to mean you didn't agree, I'm more than happy to listen.

As far as your vote, that was not something I was let in on. How can you hold me to know that information when it wasn't ever anything I was told??

So much for being able to have an completely issue oriented discussion without it resulting in something like that. There was no name calling, no putting anyone down, just a group of people discussing what they have perceived to have taken place. I feel bad that you'd throw me aside for bringing up an issue where I don't agree with some of you.

This is just like work--disagree with someone, and you get put on their shit list.

Moondance

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 04:17 pm Click here to edit this post

Lance...
1) I did not agree with May to anything like that... I have a copy of the game... I am still asking for proof by you ... if you are going to accuse me of something then pack it up

2) You said >So much for being able to have a completely issue oriented discussion without it resulting in something like that< give me a break ... you insinuated we were being unfair...many tried to explain that we were taken Merlin in jest but with a serious tone to what we thought a sexist comment ... no lance it was you to take it down an entirely different path!

3) I have told you numerous times, even on the phone after the game that I voted for you... was I talking to a wall?

Moondance

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 04:20 pm Click here to edit this post

So Gail if it happened after Merlin made a comment, that would make it Merlin making it a gender issue not us.

How did something that started out fun and light end up like this...

I am sick to my stomach and have no desire to stick around...

Wink

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 04:26 pm Click here to edit this post

Lance I think you are absolutely one of, if not the most even-handed people on this board. I still don't understand why this whole thing has gotten so out of hand. If you would go and read the Merlin fan thread (and perhaps you already have) surely you can see that we were having fun with this whole Merlin thing. It seems to me Merlin realized that with his comment after the banner ran.

And Gail if you would also go back and read my first comment very early on in that thread I think you'll find we're both in complete agreement on Merlin.

Lance if you don't understand the flirting thing I'm sorry. I just don't have the energy to explain.

Wink

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 04:28 pm Click here to edit this post

Moondance, you stay right where you are!!!

Maddie

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 05:04 pm Click here to edit this post

I agree with Gail that Merlin probably didn't mean to offend. I was annoyed by comments made by Merlin in the RR. They seemed out of line, especially when he knows there are so many women on this board.

I do not think he meant them as sexist remarks, however, ignorance is never a good defense. I am not excusing the comments simply because he may not realize how it came across, just agreeing with Gail on that point. :o)

Tukuul

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 05:55 pm Click here to edit this post

<grabs a bucket of popcorn and finds a good seat>

In a roundabout sort of way, this is humorous.

Digilady

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 05:55 pm Click here to edit this post

So vote for JuJu.

The Kinkaju always win over men and women BOTH!

<erk, erk erk>

Like my kinkaju cry?

Tukuul

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 05:59 pm Click here to edit this post

Hey Host. You're supposed to be unbiased. LOL!

Maddie

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 06:27 pm Click here to edit this post


Quote:

Merlin:
Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 05:56 pm
If there is gender bashing on the outside, there aren't enough men on the board to defend very long. I think we have always been outnumbered. <maybe this would have been a good oportunity to add outsmarted?>


Merlin says there are not enough men on the board to defend against gender bashing. He atomatically assumes that it could only be women bashing him and implies it is only because the men are outnumbered.

He does not seem to give much thought to whether it may have been fair criticism or try and figure out what he himself did. Instead he aligns himself with the poor "outnumberd" men and and even though he sarcastically says that women "outsmarted" the men, he seems to be blaming any bashing on women who couldn't have enough brains to make a valid point OR to be a worthy rival. :o|

Soeur

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 06:28 pm Click here to edit this post

For the record...I have just been having some lighthearted (I thought) fun with this. Merlin is a very decent man as is evident from the sympathetic and engaged manner in which he relates to his fellow players in the game. He also has a group of friends here who spend time with him in chat and enjoy his company. I thought that the purpose of being on the outside was to read the game folders and then discuss them (and enjoy each other in the process). Let's not get carried away here...

Maddie

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 06:43 pm Click here to edit this post

Soeur, this is discussing something that is in the Game folders isn't it? I am not carried away but I don't like sexism. I think Merlin put the women on this board down.

Just because he was fun in chat before the Game does not mean he showed his true self. I see him acting sympathetic to players but he is not so forthright about himself. He tends to ask questions to get the feel of the others but I also see he more often throws questions back when he is asked them himself.

Azriel seems to have picked up on something now because of his questions about how women flirt but none of them have seen his RR submissions. :o)

Soeur

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 06:56 pm Click here to edit this post

Yup, its in the folders. I also thought that the banners were fun and that he would (hopefully) laugh when they flew over the farmyard (remember that he was standing knee deep in a cow pie). Maybe (and how would I know for sure) when Merlin made that comment in the RR he meant that strategically the players he saw as impediments to his progress were other guys? His manner with both sexes in the chat conversations is careful and polite. I am guessing, but I think Merlin is fascinated by people and likes to try and figure out what makes them tick. I have not read extensively in the game folders but have noticed that Merlin says little about himself and is a very private person. He is actually pretty good to the other players and when given the opportunity manages to bring out interesting facets of their personalities which show them off to good advantage - pretty generous thing to do to the competition...

Tukuul

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 07:00 pm Click here to edit this post

<finishes popcorn, sighs, and gets up to go write his column>


(you hear a light chuckle fading in the distance)

Luckygal

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 07:23 pm Click here to edit this post

Cool! Maddie, I had missed that, what Merlin said. That was a good one of his... outnumbered and outsmarted! LOL

Nahh, he isn't sexist.

Lancecrossfire

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 07:31 pm Click here to edit this post

Wink, never mind about the flirting thing--it's of little consequence. I am not bothered at anyone here. I tried to raise a point about something I thought was happening, and had happened. As pointed out to me, I didn't provide any proof (such as a post copied over from game I), and made some strong statements. I'm still looking for that information, so that if I am wrong about what I thought happened I can apologize for it. If I'm correct, then I'm not going to bother, as it's created a situation that is something I never wanted to happen.

For now, I'll just go back to looking to see if I need to retract or not (and apologize if needed).

I didn't see it that anyone was just having fun with Merlin's comment--thought it really did bother you guys. If I got that wrong, then I was in a huff over an issue that did not exist, and that makes things even worse for me.

Tuk, while you may find it amusing to some degree, I will never find losing a friend to be amusing in any way. For that I feel worst of all, and take responsibility for my part in that happening. My game I friends mean a lot to me---all of them. Well, time to go back searching my game I disc.

Hostess1

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 07:46 pm Click here to edit this post

There will be no losing of friends in GAME II.

Especially over a misunderstanding like this one!

Y'all have me lost... think I'll stay that way, BUT:

New rule: no losing of friends over remarks in Game II. This can get you both beaten with a wet noodle, and worse... I'll send the Gator to blisk in BOTH your general directions!

Wink

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 08:11 pm Click here to edit this post

Lance

Tukuul

Sunday, January 21, 2001 - 09:39 pm Click here to edit this post

Lance, I can't see how this little blowup will ruin a friendship. The moment was tense and I thought I would try to pull some humor out of it.
I think everything from the statement Merlin made to this whole debate got a little blown out of proportion and misunderstood.