Archive through February 04, 2001

The ClubHouse: The Game II - Discussions: Game II Discussions: Red Room Sessions Falsified: Archive through February 04, 2001

Moondance

Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 12:55 pm Click here to edit this post

Just because it is a game does not give you the right to have things that are underhanded!

Moondance

Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 12:56 pm Click here to edit this post

These are real people that took the game to be serious...as a game... that should not have set them up for hurt by deceptions and lies

Tukuul

Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 01:08 pm Click here to edit this post

Go Dilli Go!! I Agree!!


Who needs me and Gu out here for chaos? There are plenty people around to take up the slack !!

"Gripe Gripe Gripe", go the disgruntled participants!!!

<pass out the pacifiers>

Dilligaf

Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 01:09 pm Click here to edit this post

I am NOT believing all of this crap. What happened to good clean fun without everyone getting their shorts in a wad? No one FORCED anyone to become a player in the game. It was a choice. If you made a bad choice, deal with it yourself and stop blaming others for your poor choices. Game I wasn't always wine and roses but I don't remember feeling like it was Xenia's fault or Zeb's fault or Admin's fault. I made the choice and I dealt with the consequences. That's life people....

Moondance

Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 01:09 pm Click here to edit this post

Just because there are valid questions about you, the administrators of this game and your game in general, we are called whiners and losers who can't take it?

What happened to accountability?

Moondance

Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 01:11 pm Click here to edit this post

I don't see Ocean blaming the other players Dilli

Dilligaf

Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 01:13 pm Click here to edit this post

Moon, my post wasn't directed at OI. It was simply my experience in the Game and my opinion, strictly that. If I want to direct something at Ocean, I will do that.

Tukuul

Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 01:16 pm Click here to edit this post

Some people are in a whirlwind though and it spreads a full spectrum.


I'm glad you're around Moon.

Moondance

Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 01:18 pm Click here to edit this post

Thanks Tuk

Mishamisha

Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 01:19 pm Click here to edit this post

<putting more butter on the popcorn, opening another can of coke. where's wink with those cherries?>

Tuk? More popcorn for you?

Moondance

Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 01:20 pm Click here to edit this post

I understand Dilli ... problems though with others players are one thing but when the problems stem from the Game administration it opens up a whole other spectrum

Willi

Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 01:23 pm Click here to edit this post

Soeur...Waddya say we plan a Peace Summit?

(food & beverages will be not only allowed but encouraged)

Willi

Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 01:30 pm Click here to edit this post

Chat:
#peacesummit

Tukuul

Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 01:35 pm Click here to edit this post

Thanks Mish. Not this time around. I don't think this is too joking of a matter now.

Soeur

Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 01:35 pm Click here to edit this post

Willi...I am in!

Rules will be strictly enforced:
1. Wipe your feet upon entering and leaving.
2. No food fights.
3. Note pads and pens will be distributed. Please document all proceedings.
4. If you notice a fellow participant has toilet paper stuck to his/her foot please advise them quietly of this emergency situation.
5. After 4 drinks please join chat.
6. Please be tolerant of differences in American & Canadian spelling.
7. Dress is casual, TVCH t-shirt preferred.
...to be continued...

Lancecrossfire

Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 01:40 pm Click here to edit this post

Ocean, I have completed my review.

Method used: printed out what you posted for your RR messages and printed out what Gator posted for your RRs (this consisted of a total of 36 pages of text). I went through each, word for word, and noted any differences. For any differences, I used the search function on this board, using words within the text and specific locations (either game or game discussion area) to find the text.

There are 13 RRs posts for Ocean. There is one posted on 1/30 at 11:06 am which doesn't appear in Ocean's collection on the board. (I will not copy it over to here, as this post will be long enough as it is.

There is a RR post dated 1/19 7:29 am which is actually part of Juju's RR, and the second portion of this isn't from someone else's not is from what Ocean posted on the game area. I leave it to you folks to see if it was from another player.

There are 3 which Ocean posted in the game area which do not appear in the RR posts for Ocean.

The first is a message sent to Gator on 1/23 at 20:08:08 (PST)RE: Dream of the Red Chamber. Again, I will not post it here, for the sake of the length of this post.

The second not posted is from a message sent by Ocean on 1/28 16:58:26 RE: Communications Bottom of form 1. This is the one where Gator asked questions from a variety of "people: at the end, as well as questions, such as "do you prefer the old Guruchaz, kinder-gentler Guruchaz, or kung fu grip Guruchaz?", and "What other language(s) do you speak, and how did you learn it (from your parents, grandparents, travel, school)?" Same thing; not copying this over.

The third is the message Ocean sent to Gator on 2/1 at 4:39:41 (PST) RE: bottom of form 1.

I will copy all on a post I do right after this one--as there would be 1 RR that Ocean didn't include, and 3 from Ocean which didn't appear. It too will be a long post.

There is

There were only two changes I noticed in actual words sent by Ocean.

The first was the word "It's" left out from Ocean's words--it did not seem to change anything. If you want me to hunt down which paragraph from which message that came from, I will. I considered it to be a non-issue as after reading it I couldn't see ANY difference on what the meaning of the sentence was. Next, there was a change on Ocean's message to Gator as follows: Ocean writes on 1/21 7:36:13 (PST) at the beginning of his message: "I had a bit more going on yesterday than I could deal with, hence this late message. I hope they are being posted as I e-mail them rather than on a delayed basis."

In the RR dated 1/21 8:55 am, the text reads: "Sorry I have been later getting here, I had a bit more going on yesterday than I could deal with, hence my tardiness."

When I read these two, I couldn't see a difference in what they said--no misrepresenting the message attempting to be conveyed. Everyone on both sides of the fence, feel free to evaluate per your perspectives.

The rest of the RR posts match WORD FOR WORD what Ocean has posted in the game area. The edits of coming in and leaving and faces made, etc, were added to Ocean's RRs (as they were to everyone else's). There are also places where silence is added in, and an addition of asking where the questions come from in a specific RR. Words, such as snort, pout, shrugs, smirks, coughs, jogs, smiles, slips into, grins, sighs, waves, sits, gets up, muttering, bows, walks, staggers, stares, floats, quietly, brooding, and a few other descriptors are used throughout all RR posts by Gator.

In following the game closely, having read the RR each day, then going through and reading the two prints (RR and Oceans), I walk away feeling that what Ocean was saying (what I got out of his messages) was not changes from what Gator posted in the RR section (what I got out of those posts).

In conclusion, to me, the message was not hindered by what Gator did by editing. I did notice the Juju duplication when they originally happened, although didn't associate anything negative toward Ocean or Juju at that time. Just thought it was an honest mistake. I'll let Ocean and Gator discuss the specifics of any edits thought to cast negative light upon Ocean. I didn't see any, and actually find that the RR posts, for me, were done in such a way I felt better about Ocean than when I read his messages without Gator's additions. Of course I also felt that about the RR posts he did for me in game I compared to what I sent in. So, it's possible my "objective view" is set already that the RR posts shed a more positive light on the player in the first place. I'm confident that will be thought of by someone in any event, so I throw it out there as a disclaimer what what might be without me really knowing for sure.

Willi

Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 01:41 pm Click here to edit this post

I'm waiting...#peacesummit...I made some rules too...

Ocean_Islands

Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 01:57 pm Click here to edit this post

Thanks so much for that work Lance, I appreciate it very much.

I noticed that the Red Chamber email had been excised from my redrooms, thanks for finding the others that Gator did not include.

Lancecrossfire

Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 01:57 pm Click here to edit this post

This is the RR that was posted which is not on the set of messages Ocean posted:


Tuesday, January 30, 2001 - 11:06 am Oceanislands trips into the Red Room and sits down. He looks at the screen and says: Morning Gator. The Interrogator says: Good morning. Is there anything in particular that you would like to share with us? Oceanislands smiles and rambles: Another banishment, but this one did not affect my quite as deeply as the other one. I guess with Joni it felt like a lamb to the slaughter, since she was new -- and Newmush was new too. I guess most knew that Spamgirl would probably be going. I hope that when I get out of the game I haven't found that she has been two faced in here. I'm glad Juju2 is still here. I'm very happy to reiterate my words from my first RR, that I will not nominate Juju2 and Guru. I stand by my words. They are more fun than ever. The banner mentioned an alliance but there is not much point to knowing there is an alliance (or was it a lie) if you don't know who the alliance is. Please prepare for an announcement later Tuesday. I am having a meeting today with lab scientists. If my inklings are correct, my laboratory staff's technological advancement is ready for unveiling. The Interrogator says: If that is all, we will talk again later. Oceanislands waves at the screen and stumbles out the door. After a few moments silence a voice says: "my laboratory staff's technological advancement is ready for unveiling"?? Does that mean he is testing some new drugs today? The Interrogator says: Quiet you!

Here is what Ocean has in his post in the game area that didn’t appear as a RR:

Date: Tue, 23 Jan 2001 20:08:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Ocean Islands <ocean_islands@yahoo.com> | Block address | Add to Address Book
Subject: Dream of the Red Chamber
To: The Interrogator <interrogator01@hotmail.com>


Dear Red Room:

The clockwork mechanisms of the banishment machine
have been set in motion, and the spectators are the
watchworks. I shall refrain from reading the clock to
know the precise hours of doom and to keep from
speculating on future as yet unknown victims. One can
foretell the future and in doing so set in motion a
tide of events that quickly falls out of one's
control. That tide is as relentless as the ocean
waves on the shores of oblivion.

Sincerely,

O. Islands

AND

Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 16:58:26 -0800 (PST) Top of Form 1 &&
From: Ocean Islands <ocean_islands@yahoo.com> | Block address | Add to Address Book &&&&&
Subject: Communications Bottom of Form 1
To: The Interrogator <interrogator01@hotmail.com>

Dear Red Room:

It has come to my attention that there may be some
questions that you have posed that I have not yet had
time to answer. With this message I hope to address
those outstanding issues.

1) Why do you think a compromise wasn't able to be
reached?

I'm tempted to believe it's because my team
couldn't do without me. However, that would be
egotism at its worst. I would propose that, the other
team being given powers beyond its due, my team
TidalWave saw no other alternative but to give in.
Serious questions must be answered about why the
Grassyknoll was given such powers. It did not seem
warranted. It is a mystery. Is this due unwarranted
advantaged due to a mole amongst us?

2) Considering the headaches that Hostess1 was given
by some players over the issue of Cammie leaving and
Joni entering, players who seemed to feel she wasn't
trying to go by consensus or compromise, do you think
it is hypocritical of those same people to refuse to
compromise last night?

I see the issues as completely separate. The
Hostess1 is all-knowing. She knows how to properly
deal with us underlings.

3) What do you think of the free for all chats, like
last night after the abortive debate, where all the
viewers are allowed to chime in?

It must have due to a momentary glitch in the chat
software. I see no reason why it would have been done
deliberately. On the other hand, I'm sure it was
entertaining for all concerned. For my part, I was
worshipping the porcelain goddess and cannot comment.

4) Do you prefer the old Guruchaz, kinder-gentler
Guruchaz, or kung fu grip Guruchaz?

I see no contradictions in Guruchaz' behavior in
the least. He is as consistent as Saddam Hussein, and
as dependable as Bill Clinton acting as headmaster of
a girl's boarding school.

What other language(s) do you speak, and how did you
learn it (from your parents, grandparents, travel,
school)?

I am fluent in French. I began study of French in
8th grade. When I arrived in France in 1992, I was
quite rusty but had an astounding base which served me
well. I must also add that my ability with the French
accent has impressed all and laid waste to my enemies
(which are few).

What other countries have you travelled to?

I have travelled to Canada, which is a strange and
foreign land that has provoked fear and consternation
in my countrymen. I have also visited: Ireland,
England, Belgium, The Netherlands, Denmark, Germany,
Italy, and France, and also Switzerland. I have not
been to Burkini Faso, to my detriment.

What country would you like to travel to?


I would like to visit Russia, Argentina, Chile,
Australia, China, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, and South
Africa, among others.

If given the choice, what period of history or time
period would you choose to live in?

I think the Roman Empire would be incredible.
Also, the Greek Empire would be amazing. Egypt would
be astounding. I would only want to live at these
times and places if I were extremely rich and/or of
royal blood.

If you were to suffocate one player (currently in the
game)with a bag until they pass out, who would it be?
Would you use paper or plastic?

Does not compute.
you discovered that your closest friend at work had
for years forged records and stolen from the company,
what would you do?

I would recommend my most trusted legal counsel.

If permanent world peace could be gained by
obliterating one country, would you be willing to
select the country to be sacrificed? If so, which
would you choose and why?

Does not compute. I would not make such a
decision. However, if there were a country of one
person, and that person were willing to be sacrificed,
I would consider it.

Mrs. Cravitz from Salem Mass asks: "I would like to
know who had the most influence in their lives and how
that person influenced them."

I think that would be my grandmother, who was an
angel living on earth and who died at a young age.
She somehow taught me to believe the best of others,
even though they are seldom able to live up to that
belief.

George Dubyah Bushnell of Armadillo Tx writes: "if you
could ask ONE question to the new, fully legitimate
President of The United States, what would it be?"

The new fully legitimate president of the United
States? Who is that? Jes kidn. I would ask, are you
a liar, or telling the truth?

Soleil Moonbeam Fried from Wallawalla Washinton asks:
If each one could speak to a famous person, living or
dead, who would they choose? And what would you first
question be?

I would speak to Cleopatra, Queen of Egypt. I
would ask her what is the essence of true love?

Ima Crankovitch from Springfield ** asks: "Would the
players like the viewers to lessen the name changing
in chat - what do they think about this?"

This is, indeed, an earth shaking and serious
controversy, whose answer must be found. Identities
are a serious matter. No identity changing should be
allowed by game players or spectators. After all, it
is NOT, "All Optics".

One last question, this from a Reggie Fillbin, from NY
NY, who asks: "Imagine you were a finalist in a
contest paying a million dollars to whoever did the
most good in the coming year - as judged by a panel of
certified philanthropists. If the rules allowed you to
spend no more time and money than you could
comfortably afford, what would you do?

This is a difficult question. I think I would
write to the most important charities in the world,
and give them my advice; we can, in the end, only give
of ourselves. Barring that, I would volunteer to the
extent possible to youth organisations in my
community.

Who do you think is your biggest rival, or rivals, in
The Game?

I believe (and I could be wrong) that my truest
rival is the person who is playing the game more
holistically than myself. Not knowing all (like
Digilady), I cannot guess as to who this person is.

Sincerely,

O. Islands

AND

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 04:39:41 -0800 (PST) Top of Form 1 &&
From: Ocean Islands <ocean_islands@yahoo.com> | Block address | Add to Address Book &&&&&
Subject: Re: Bottom of Form 1
To: The Interrogator <interrogator01@hotmail.com>

Dear Red Room

I am in an incredible crunch time right now at work,
so I'm not too happy and playing the game is pretty
difficult.

It would help if a schedule were posted instead of
these surprises. When my team won I didn't think I
was going to have to be scrambling to answer a
challenge for a plum prize given at midnight and due
at 4 the next day. Of course, there are some trivial
details to take care of like sleep, work and eating.

Sincerely,
O. Islands

Note that these are already on the board in the RR sectin on our side, or in the game area where Ocean posted before leaving. Feel free to verify they are merely copy/paste, and not changed in any way.

Lancecrossfire

Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 02:14 pm Click here to edit this post

Ok, since everyone is supposed to be able to give their opinion on things without concern of any type of bashing, I'll go ahead and throw my opinion in based on looking at all the RRs and how additions were made.

I'm not seeing anything that makes me think less of a gamer in terms of their status of the game or the status I consider them as a poster in general. I enjoy the additions Gator makes, as they add humor and give a presence of them actually being in a RR.

I may have missed something (hey, I'm told that on a regular basis) however I remember hearing of only one other concern about how Gator was portraying someone. That was by Guru at the beginning of the game. One of the times when we were allowed to chat with them, I mentioned to Guru that his RR (along with everyone else's) were done straight up from everything I could tell, and in his case, matched what he has been saying in the game. He said ok, and hasn't mentioned it again--that I'm aware of that is.

I'd be interested in hearing what exactly Gator has done--the words he's used--to bring anyone in a bad light, and what that bad light is. This interest is not limited to just Ocean. There are 5 players that are out of the game. I am curious to hear from any or all 5 what they specifically feel was said and what changed by those words in the RR. Feel free to start another thread.

Feel free to provide proof of accusations. Seems if it's an expectation of one person to be able to do so, it damn well better be an expectation of everyone.

Ocean_Islands

Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 02:25 pm Click here to edit this post

Thanks so much Lance, again.

I actually had no idea that Interrogator had not included my LARGEST red room message on the Red Room board.

In preparing the email posted on the Game site, I had read it so many times that I believed I saw it when I actually looked at the Red Room outside the game but it is not there.

The long message is dated January 28.

If you look at my Red Room, you'll see that there are no messages between January 26 and January 30.

Anyone looking at this message will realize something is seriously wrong that this was not posted.

Resortgirl

Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 02:25 pm Click here to edit this post

You've been a busy boy Lance! I don't see anything that makes me think negatively about Ocean in his reddroom "discussions" I agree with you that the additions make you feel the presence of the "BG".

Ocean_Islands

Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 02:35 pm Click here to edit this post

Really? Don't you think that withholding an entire two page email leaves some information out? This is where I answered questions such as:

Why do you think a compromise wasn't able to be reached?

What do you think of the free for all chats, like last night after the abortive debate, where all the viewers are allowed to chime in?

Do you prefer the old Guruchaz, kinder-gentler
Guruchaz, or kung fu grip Guruchaz?

What other language(s) do you speak, and how did you learn it (from your parents, grandparents, travel, school)?

What other countries have you travelled to?

What country would you like to travel to?

If given the choice, what period of history or time period would you choose to live in?


It was entirely wrong not to include this message with my other red room emails.

I had thought this was only about the parenthetical comments. It's actually much, much worse.

Juju2bigdog

Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 02:51 pm Click here to edit this post

Well, carp and shinola! Now I am afraid to go read the red rooms. I'm only doing a few threads at a time and will probably comment as I finish them.

Maire

Sunday, February 04, 2001 - 02:54 pm Click here to edit this post

Ocean, I see this whole issue as a concern of yours that you have been misrepresented by the Red Room editorials. You decided to post your Red Rooms without the edits. I see nothing wrong with you wanting to make sure you are being represented clearly, that is your right. And it is every other player's right to do the same thing if they believe the issue is important enough. To you, it was an extremely important issue. No one wants to be read wrong, to be misunderstood, and I for one hate to be misunderstood - there is nothing more frustrating. Being accepted is at the core of our beings. We need love, companionship, a sense of belonging, and this board is one place where we seek that.