Death.

The ClubHouse: The Game - Play Room: General Discussions: Discussion - Archives: Death.

Luke

Monday, October 16, 2000 - 09:08 pm Click here to edit this post
I don't mean this topic to be a downer--but if it seems a downer to anyone, feel free not to comment.
As most of you know, I am involved with playing piano and organ in church. I spent this past weekend playing weddings and other services. Today, a close friend of mine called me and said her brother just died. I will be taking off work sometime this week to spend time with her and organize the music and the choir for her brother's funeral. Her brother is her only sibbling, so she has taken his death pretty hard. He was only 45 too, a diabetic.
Some people find it hard to talk about death. Are you afraid of death? What is it that makes you afraid? It's times like these when I really ask myself--"How much am I really sure that there's going to be something beyond death--even though I've spent years of Sunday school learning that there is?"
I've played piano for weddings and funerals so many times before, I can't even count. But to see my close friend this week grieving will be different. I guess since someone close to me is affected, this is serving as a wake up call for me not to forget my own mortality.

Any thoughts?

Zebulon

Monday, October 16, 2000 - 09:30 pm Click here to edit this post
Luke, I guess you want us to talk about how we feel about our own death?

For me, it was a disturbing thought 3 years ago.

Now, after seeing a friend I highly respected deal with a terminal illness and keep up his sense of humor and an excellent attitude until his passing, I don't view death the same. It truly doesn't bother me anymore. Seeing how brave he was, firsthand, enhanced my own braveness with death. I think this was because he was the first person I was close to that knew he was going to die and handled it exceptionally well which I immediately took notice of and will always remember.

Vykin

Tuesday, October 17, 2000 - 07:11 am Click here to edit this post
"Tuesdays With Morrie", put many things into perspective about facing death. Elizabeth-Kubler Ross has some good books on death and dying. In my life for some reason, I've seen or experienced many funerals. As a child, I was not kept away from funerals of someone known to the family. So I am relatively comfortable will facing it. There are times when I said eulogies at some funerals or memorials, as early as the age of 25. My first sad memory of a young relative was when a favorite 16 yr old cousin from Spokane died of leukemia - whereas, I recall vividly being in Grade 2 and a neighboring friend being killed while crossing the road by an oncoming vehicle. I'm going to leave it at this and post a separate post about a more recent tragic death.

Vykin

Tuesday, October 17, 2000 - 08:12 am Click here to edit this post
In 1996, the husband, of my best friend and co-associate, who is a female, died tragically. A small plane had gone missing in rough mountainous terrain in my area. "Tom" (not his real name for privacy protection of my friend), was also a very good friend of mine. "Tom" was a small plane pilot himself. He was involved in search & rescues. The plane which went missing had a 26yr old experienced pilot taking a 12 year old girl & 9 year old boy for a fly. Search & Rescue did a major search for 2 days. "Tom" was asked to search on 2nd day. His wife, "Pam" usually didn't participate with the pilots association, who wud organize meals for the searching pilots etc. On this particular day for an unknown reason "Pam" chose to go help out. "Tom" flew in for a refuel. She got to see him, he walked back to his plane after a quick sandwich, and telling "Pam" how glad he was to see her help out. He went back out to search.

Initially the search/rescue headquarters was based in a neighboring town. Shortly, before noon, they moved the base to my town, which has a bigger airport. "Pam" came out to my town. Still no sight of the missing plane. At one point, "Pam" did everything there was to be done and the ground supervisor, told her she could leave. This was at the point when the worried parents of the kids in the missing plane arrived.

"Pam" telephoned me, we usually talked on a daily basis about business, and other things. For busy schedules we had not seen each other for 2 weeks. She said was done with her help, asked if I was free for her to stop by for a glass of wine and catch up. I was pleased, said come on over. She left for a short 5 minute drive to my home. At that time, my friend Jim from Yemen was down for the weekend (the one who told about camel spiders). He had always heard about "Pam" and "Tom", but never met either of them. Pam arrives, I introduce the 2, and Jim, says: "Pam, I am sorry to hear your husband is missing". Pam laughed, corrected Jim, and said, "NO, no my husband is part of search & rescue, he's not missing!". We all laughed, Jim felt stupid.

The day was warm, mid summer, a perfect day! We spent the day outside talking, having a glass of wine. Around 2pm a Hercules aircraft flew over. (IT's a big recovery plane). Pam said, "They must have found the missing airplane, because its not landing in the airport here but going directly toward my town". We were all pleased with this seemingly breakthrough. Shortly after, Pam left my place, Jim had other business, I went for a short nap. Within 45 minutes my phone rang, It was Pam, sobbing, "Vykin, Tom is dead!" I said, "What???", Pam responds, "Tom's plane went down in the search & rescue, he's dead". I am shocked, (3 ppl in the plane, Tom the pilot, a navigator and a spotter). I jump in my car and drive to Pam's place.

Now then, I know this is long, but Luke I think it addresses issues of "life after death", "spirits among us".

Tom's plane had indeed crashed that day. Flew too low into a "box canyon" and downdraft took the plane down. Though Tom and I were great friends, he knew how close a friendship his wife and I had,
(IT WAS PLATONIC NOTHING ELSE).

Here is what we put together:
Unbeknownst to Pam, literally 2 minutes after she left the airport base to come to my house, word started filtering in that Tom's plane had gone down. The ground people were panicking, didn't know whats going on, knowing Pam had left to my place (ground crew pple knew of me and my close relationship w/Pam). Scared before official verification, that Pam will return to the airport.

Meantime, Pam has left for her home, she is just coming into her town, has the radio on. The announcer who knew myself really well because of school board related business, and many interviews with me, also knew Pam, who was on the school board in her own district. Anyways, announcer comes on radio "We are reporting the missing plane has been found, but sadly we are reporting with mixed feelings - we have word one of the search/rescue planes has also crashed".
Pam knew instantly it was her Tom.

At the risk, of really dragging this out, cuz there are many weird things that happened in the subsequent days to follow. Here's what we accessed.
Coincidence?or "Something Else?"
1. Pam volunteered first time on ground base, the day her husband died.
2. Pam's last sight of Tom was big smile on his
face as he waved goodbye to her before his
last flight.
3. Word of his crash, came only after she had
left the ground base to my home.
4. Unfolding events took place while she was
"safe" at my home, unknowing what was to come
5. The Hercules plane which we spotted flying
over my home, was in fact rerouted to Pams
hometown airport because of word of Tom's
crash.
6. Sean, the radio reporter, never worked
weekends, but had been called in emergently.
Seans, voice over the radio when Pam knew
something was wrong, was comforting to her.
7. Within 2 minutes after Pam called to inform
me of the tragedy, the RCMP called my home.
they and the pilots assoc. were frantically
trying to locate Pam via my home (number is
unlisted, was hard for them) to warn what
happened and to try get Pam back home without
telling her yet, what was happening cuz they
still needed to confirm death.

FINALLY, Upon many conversations with Pam after the death of her husband, we concluded that: At the time of Tom's death, his Spirit rose out of his body, plucked Pam and put her at my home for 2 hours to Protect her from what was soon to be a very public tragedy for her and her two
children. Tom always knew in real life, that Pam was always safe with me, he trusted me. There are many many other odd things that happened that day, but this story is long enough. In the end, I do believe there are spirits, and reincarnations that occur in life ( I know catholics don't believe in reincarnation, but notwithstanding).
I will be at peace when I die, and only hope when it happens that I have enjoyed the life we have here to its fullest.
As the song goes: "I Believe in something good in every thing I see..."

Vykin

Tuesday, October 17, 2000 - 08:16 am Click here to edit this post
By the way, the original missing plane: The pilot survived, the 9yr old boy died, the 12yr old girl survived but in hospital for months.
She lost her father less than a year later in a car accident, aside from the 9 yr old cousin.
Tragedy all around.

Himay10ns

Tuesday, October 17, 2000 - 10:51 am Click here to edit this post
I was wondering if any of you have ever been PRESENT and watched someone die? About 5 years ago, my grandfather suffered a stroke. I was living about 2 hours away and I immediately got in my car and drove to the hospital. My mother was there along with my uncle. He was on life support but awake. He was struggling with the ventilator and we knew we had to make a decision. He wanted the vent taken out and we had to explain to him that once they took it out, it was for good and that he would probably not be able to breathe on his own for very long. He didn't care, he wanted it out. So they took the vent out at about 3:30 in the afternoon. He was awake and able to talk to us for a few hours and then slowly drifted off to sleep. About 7:30 that evening, his blood pressure began dropping and his heart rate decreased. He just slipped away...it was the most peaceful experience of my life. I was so happy that I got to say goodbye and tell him how much I loved him. He wasn't in any pain. He was just a little angel laying there in the hospital bed. I love and miss him so much. Death doesn't scare me. My lack of fear comes from my faith. I can only hope and pray that I go as peacefully as he did.

Zebulon

Tuesday, October 17, 2000 - 12:04 pm Click here to edit this post
No, I've never been present at anyone's death and the only dramatic story I had to tell was the one I shared in another discussion area last week.

I know it would be very hard for me to see someone pass away right before my eyes, but I feel more brave towards my own passing. It's not something I'm overly concerned about anymore.

Xenia

Tuesday, October 17, 2000 - 12:18 pm Click here to edit this post
I'll make this brief as long posts are hard to read:

I'm not afraid of death because I whole-heartedly believe in reincarnation.

It's how I die that freaks me out. I would rather not have to go through a long-term illness or be shot to death or something just as torturous. A nice peaceful death in my sleep would be ideal.

My dramatic death story: Ten years ago I was housesitting for a friend and I found his next door neighbor/best friend's dead body. She had been dead for days. She had over-medicated herself. The hardest part of that was having to be the one to tell my friend and the dead woman's family and co-workers (who had been calling to try and find her) that she had passed away. The dreams I had afterward were unsettling too.

Vykin

Tuesday, October 17, 2000 - 01:18 pm Click here to edit this post
No, I've never seen a person die in front of my eyes.

Moondance

Tuesday, October 17, 2000 - 01:31 pm Click here to edit this post
That would have definitely been traumatic Xenia

I have experienced many deaths in my life and I do not want to any more!
That said, I know I cannot avoid it. My first and major death experience was when I lost my Father. I had written about this in Lessons Learned thread but I was 12 and he was only 34. He died of Lung cancer; a very painful way to die....

The day before he died, he was different, God gave him a gift that he was able to sit up in bed and talk ... he had requested to die at home so My Mom being the Angel that she is, arranged for Daddy to have his wish. He wanted to enjoy his kids, family & friends before he passed and he did so for a couple of weeks. He insisted that life go on as normal as possible. He degenerated fast though and was unable to walk or talk much... it was painful and he went from 230 lbs to under a 100 lbs. June 6th he gathered me and my two brothers in his room and said he was to go to heaven that night but not to worry he would always be with us ... I made a list of things that I promised not to do ... smoke, drugs, get married (I am not trying to hold to this ... but it has worked out this way so far). It was very surreal ... even thinking about it seems like a dream ... it was a loving & peaceful feeling. I slept in the next room that night and at 5:45 in the morning I woke up and literally felt my Dad's soul lift from the house ... hard to explain but I knew he was gone. Later my Mom told me he had slipped his wedding band onto her finger and said good-bye before he died at 5:45am.

I have never experienced such pain of loss in my life up until then or even now. But I feel privileged to say he was my Dad and his spirit is always with me. Yes, I was and always be Daddy's girl.

Death is hardest for those left behind in life...
It is also part of an amazing cycle that we can welcome the new. My heart goes out to everyone who has experienced loss... My prayers are with May & Levi

Xenia

Tuesday, October 17, 2000 - 01:51 pm Click here to edit this post
I cannot begin to imagine the pain and sorrow the death of your father caused you, Moon. Death is hard at any stage in life, but having to experience it while you were on the verge of adolescence must have made it even more difficult.

Moondance

Tuesday, October 17, 2000 - 01:57 pm Click here to edit this post
Thanks Xenia... that means a lot. Very difficult and I am sure most of my struggles in relationships stem from abandonment issues... We all have issues to deal with ... this was my biggest.

Vykin

Tuesday, October 17, 2000 - 02:02 pm Click here to edit this post
Moon what a moving story, and what a wonderful "gift" your father gave you all in the way he passed away. I am moved!

Moondance

Tuesday, October 17, 2000 - 02:26 pm Click here to edit this post
Thanks Vykin... It was such a blessed gift and I am so fortunate to have received it.

Roger_Ramjet

Wednesday, October 18, 2000 - 02:10 am Click here to edit this post
Moon, that was a very nice post--thanks for sharing your situation.

Vyk, I also enjoyed your story!

May, yes, I have seen quite a few people die!! Some very pieceful, some very violent. Stabbings, car accidents, a ultra-light plane crash where by the time we were trying to get him out, we realized a couple of things. He was still alive, although it ended up not being for long, and 2) just about every bone in his body was broken. Moving him was like trying to move a long tube of jello--a very strange feeling as humans go.

I was always able to have a certain mental approach to going on medic calls---doing CPR, on about a dozen different occasions, had someone puke in my mouth while giving ventilations. You have to be able to go one--you can't mess up the rhythm of CPR. So, you have to just spit it out, clear there airway and be on with it--no time to puke yourself!! Nothing like acid burns in your mouth and on your lips. For me, worth the effort of attempting to save a life.

There were 3 instances of death that I was not able to keep that "mental approach" toward, and the haunt me ot this day. Imagine if you will, being an averae person just trying to help your community by becoming an EMT. Then imagine being called not once in a seven year period but 3 different times to a house in the middle of the night with words you just don't want to hear as part of the call--INFANT

3 different times having a baby die in my arms from SIDS deaths. The parents are standing around you, looking to you for hope that you can do something for their young infant till the trip to the emergency room can get a doctor's help. 3 times I had to look into their eyes holding their dead child...dead from SIDS. These have been the 3 most helpless times in my life. Yes, I've seen a lot of people die.

My own death...I've never been afraid of it. Don't know why, as my belief system doesn't go beyond death. I guess I see it as part of the package I call life. A year ago, as I mentioned before, I shold have been killed in a work related accident with another worker. The details may or may not be something you want to know..I won't include them here. Using a knife with tools, a decent use of my brain, never quitting even though it seemed like there was no way out, and keeping my cool (how funny for being locked in a freezer)I was able ot get us out. There was no excitement on my part--I was happy I had cheated death, and happy I got the other guy out--with a wife and kids. I immediately thought of those 3 infants that died in my arms so many years ago. I would have gladly stayed in there to have any one of them back.

Yes, it is a long post (sorry Xenia), and I have yet another thought to share about death. The biggest mistake made is not saying things to those who are alive. They die and you don't share whatever you wanted to with them. I saidi the last verse of a song about this...Vyk knows of this song. It say volumes about what happens if you don't say "those things" to someone before they die or you die.

Too many events together not to say something. Thanks to a co-worker, I was listening to an older song by Mike and the Mechanics (ok, so I'm older than dirt). There have been illnesses and accidents that many people have been affected by recently.

For myself, I am coming up on the 6 year anniversary of having to choose between pulling the plug or letting my youngest son fight what was at that time a losing battle with spinal meningitis--he could have ended up dead or your basic vegetable--I banked on neither happening (luckily he hates to lose as much as I do). He's fine, and I got to say the things I could have missed out on. I still have lots to say to many people. I'll start here. Many times we have things to get through with another or others that we just kind of let slide. Should we continue that course, or should we make an effort to change things?????? For you to decide!

The Living Years

Every generation
Blames the one before
And all of their frustrations
Come beating on your door.

I know that I'm a prisoner
To all my father held so dear
I know that I'm a hostage
To all his hopes and fears
I just wish I could have told him
In the living years.

Crumpled bits of paper
Filled with imperfect thought
Stilted conversations
I'm afraid that's all we've got.

You say you just don't see it
He says it's perfect sense
You just can't get agreement
In this present tense
We all talk a different language
Talking in defense.

Say it loud, say it clear
You can listen as well as you hear
It's too late when we die
To admit we don't see eye to eye.

So we open up a quarrel
Between the present and the past
We only sacrifice the future
It's the bitterness that lasts.

So don't yield to the fortunes
You sometimes see as fate
It may have a new perspective
On a different day
And if you don't give up,
and don't give in
You may just be OK.

Say it loud, say it clear
You can listen as well as you hear
It's too late when we die
To admit we don't see eye to eye.

I wasn't there that morning
When my father passed away
I didn't get to tell him
All the things I had to say.
I think I caught his spirit
Later that same year
I'm sure I heard his echo
In my baby's new born tears
I just wish I could have told him
In the living years.


I know death very well. Talk to the ones you love, and the ones you have unfinished business with.

Luke

Wednesday, October 18, 2000 - 02:18 am Click here to edit this post
I'm at a loss for words. Thank you, thank you for your post, Roger.

Roger_Ramjet

Wednesday, October 18, 2000 - 02:21 am Click here to edit this post
Luke, I thought you were gone...

Vykin

Wednesday, October 18, 2000 - 06:45 am Click here to edit this post
good post roger. Thanx for posting the words to the song meant to ask u if u had them the other day.

Arreal

Wednesday, October 18, 2000 - 09:48 am Click here to edit this post
I'm not afraid of my own death for I know that heaven's pearly gates are wide open for me. I will be with my Savior and my God upon my physical death.

I am afraid of other things relating to dying. I'm afriad of alzheimers, incontinence and bed sores. I'm afraid of bolis feedings and IV hydration to support my life. I'm afraid of losing the ability to have meaningful conversations with loved ones. I'm afraid of pain associated with certain illnesses that result in death. I'm afraid of dying in an unnatural, enexpected, terror filled event. I'm afraid of dying alone.


I have also witnessed a death of a patient in a nursing home. The man had cancer and had been unconcious for about four days. His family had decided to let him die peacefully and to not force feed or give hydration. I was in his room with him, rubbing lotion on his body, which always seemed to make him relax. He passed away while I was tending him. This was the first death that I had ever seen.

I helped the mortician move him from the bed to the gurny and watched him zip up the black bag.

Soon his daughters came and we hugged and talked.
It was liberating for his family because it was a long and painful illness. They were sad at the loss, but they were at peace because they knew he was at peace.

My grandmother died in a similar way, at home. She died in her sleep after many years of pain and weakness from osteoporosis. Our family grieved for OUR loss, but we were relieved her pain and suffering was finally over.

Luke

Wednesday, October 18, 2000 - 10:42 pm Click here to edit this post
Hey everyone...
It's Wednesday night, and I just got back from a vigil for the brother of one of my closest friends. As an organist, I attend a lot of funerals (to play music, of course)... but this is the first funeral in a long, long time where someone I know was deeply affected...
The whole thing lasted about 2 hours, and this is only the vigil (the funeral is tomorrow morning). A bunch of us got together and formed a choir. There were some eulogies--one given by the deceased's brother-in-law, and another by some other relative. At the end, the minister called up the immediate family to the casket and asked them to pray over the body. At that point, I played a song on the piano and the choir sang... the song is a popular Filipino song, "Hindi Kita Malilimutan"... it means "I Will Not Forget You." At that point, everyone lost it. I lost it. My friends lost it. The entire choir lost it. I could barely see the piano keys, my eyes were so flooded with tears... I didn't even know this person--but to see my friend standing next to her brother's coffin... I couldn't hold back.

But then something dawned on me. When I was done with the piece, I wiped my eyes, and then something came over me... kind of like that crisp cool breeze after a harsh rainstorm... It was a sense of relief, and a sense of calm... Like I had just let out soooo much emotion, and then the waters settled down... and I felt peace... I guess that's what funerals and vigils and viewings are for... For all of us who are left behind... There was some serious emotion being felt in that room... some really serious tears being shed. A lot of people feeling a huge, huge loss... But I'll bet anyone that after this is over, and after the funeral is over tomorrow, and the body is burried... there will be such a sense of peace that will overcome the family...

The minister said tonite, "It's at times like these when we start questioning ourselves about the meaning of life." He was 100% correct... And we gotta do that from time to time... Shit... I know I got to! Hmmm I went into this evening feeling a bit down and a little nervous, not knowing what to expect at seeing a close friend of mine grieving so much... But now, I see how everyone who was there tonite will be at peace knowing that an inevitable part of life has taken place, and we've all had our chance to grieve.

I can totally see the calm after the storm already start to settle in.

Moondance

Wednesday, October 18, 2000 - 10:45 pm Click here to edit this post
That was beautiful Luke ... thank you for sharing and I am glad you have a feeling of serenity now... Love to you & your friend.

Roger_Ramjet

Wednesday, October 18, 2000 - 10:46 pm Click here to edit this post
Great comments Luke!! From out of turmoil comes a new look at things. Personal growth....doesn't it feel great!!!