Archive through October 15, 2000

The ClubHouse: The Game - Discussion Room: General : General - Archives: Friends emailing vykin with board info: Archive through October 15, 2000

Lafatme

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 12:40 am Click here to edit this post
is this what it's come down to? what happened to "no contact"?

not only did someone email him, they lied to him about the voting.

admin, why not just let him out so he can read the boards himself, it'll save time anyway.

let's amend the rules to say "no outside contact, except vykin"

okay, now it's time for vyk fans to justify why it's okay to break the rules while calling others cheaters.

go ahead, justify and rationalize to your hearts content

Whit4you

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 04:34 am Click here to edit this post
Well, it's obvious he believed he was simply bending the rules by going into private chats with other players from the board, by having private IMs with other players from the board and so on. Outside contact with friends is obvoiusly ok as long as you are not discussing the game - now even THAT if you read the rules clearly is not specifically mentioned. However his posting information obtained from THIS board onto their board is most definately clearly against the rules. I suppose he will say he did not obtain it from reading these boards himself - but by a friend reading it to him and giving him the information - however him posting information obtained here onto their boards was a blatant and clear violation of the rules.

Look in my opinion - at this point there are two who have clearly violated the rules here. One (ArReal who apparently based on Neil, Gail and Vykin's assesment bent them but didn't break them - because it was not SPECIFIALLY explained in the rules)

My take at this point is that Vykin and Gail should both resign. Because neither of them (or the Host) felt ArReals actions where a clear violation of the rules - at least the other two were not immediately expelled for it. I don't think she should be required to resign.

Xenia wants to leave on her own.

This leaves 6 remaing players. Because the orignal grand prize was a Tshirt I don't imagine anyone thought the rules needed to be written up by a team of attorneys. But do to the fact that there is has now been a substantial prize offered here - that complicates what to do regarding the remaing 6.

Working together as a group who ALL - on their side AND this side knew from day one this was unchartered territory. We should be able to come up with a fair way to resolve this - with the opinions of the remaining BGs based on all known facts.

I really think a "shortened" game. Or if they are willing a "drawing amongst the remaining 6" or some other alternative.

They really do seem to be enjoying themselves "in there" - so perhaps they would like to stay in the game and play the entire rest of the game - and at the END a drawing for the prize?

I don't know but I definately think this game could have been awesome had all the players followed the RULES, and as I am sure everyone is now aware. Had the rules been much more specific - we wouldn't be where we are today. <sigh> I don't think this is Neils fault - I just can't imagine him sitting their writting up the rules - for a game with a TShirt as a prize - thinking he needed to make a 20 page rule book. Ya know? And I am sure without a doubt that when the great prize of the CD Rom was offered he was not thinking "hmmm before I accept this better think of any possible forseeable unknown event that might turn this nice offer into a huge issue"

I guess it's likely now that they wont want to do another version of the game?? That's sad - but I really wish it could happen - with the rules alot more detailed AND a disclaimer that if an additional prize IS offered in this game (besides the Tshirt) and for some unforseeable reason it becomes impossible for us to award that prize, then that secondary prize will have to be withdrawn.

The thing is WE all know this was a beta test - if it were not for the added $200 prize - then sometime in the last two days, this could have all been resolved with a post such as:

We regret to inform you that because we made a few errors in the specific rules of this first game, that Integrity of THIS game has been breached beyond repair. All remaining players will be given a TShirt and those who have not clearly broken the rules will be offered a standing invitation to Game 2.

What happened here was in so many ways like what happened in the BB house - Brittney's outside information leak to - ONE houseguest - who then had to make the same decision ArReal did. One big difference??? What THAT corporation did was to me sooo beyond unethical - for ratings they chose to REALLY "play god" in George and his families future. Costing them - or potentially costing them 500,000 to bost ratings.

I think WE should try and work together to come up with some ideas/ alternatives for the 6 remaining BG's. AND I believe based on all that's happened they should take 3 days off - have free rain to read (but not post) what has transpired here, so they can make an informed decision. Then we could have Neil offer them all the alternatives we come up with that he deems acceptable and let THEM choose the one they want.

Neil, and all those involed in putting this game up - THANK you. We ALL knew from day one that it was a beta test - and were ALL willing guinea pigs. You've put a heck of a lot of time into providing us with this entertainment - and anybody who faults you for being human, making mistakes, or not being able to forsee any possible events in unknown territory, should simply pointed to Yahoo and the 10,000,000 other internet sites to choose from.

Best wishes to ALL involed that everyone comes out of this - without any loss of frienships etc.

Azriel1104

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 07:12 am Click here to edit this post
Well, it's obvious he believed he was simply bending the rules by going into private chats with other players from the board, by having private IMs with other players from the board and so on. Outside contact with friends is obvoiusly ok as long as you are not discussing the game - now even THAT if you read the rules clearly is not specifically mentioned

Yes, Neil didn't spell everything out in the rules because he thought this was a no-brainer.
Vykin said that none of the Game players were his friends before the game, so why would he suddenly feel the need to chat with them outside the game?
The same applies to Arreal and Gail, they had no big friendship going before the Game either.

In my eyes, the 3 of them are EQUALLY guilty of a breech in ethics. I don't see a grey area here like you do. I don't think it's a heinous crime. It was a very bad error in judgement. I don't feel the need to bash and trash them.

I do feel the need to vote them all out. I voted Talisker this time because I had already voted for her the first time. I will probably vote Vykin out next (unless Arreal comes up for banishment alone first) because from what he has admitted he is getting a lot of outside info through emails.

If I see evidence of any other players cheating, I'll vote for them, too. I would have prefered that my votes were not based on this criteria, but I feel this is the only way I can support those people that are playing the game fairly.

Teebird

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 07:25 am Click here to edit this post
I'm with you Azreil!!! I think that there is some cheating going on. I do not hold the host or admin responsible.....these people are adults and they knew the rules.

I voted for Tali this time and if Vykin is up next time I will vote for him. Are there others cheating? Very possible, but until I see evidence I can't vote for them.

Host and Admin addressed this, they can not control the players because this is a virtual game, but the players can and should play fairly.

Solos

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 08:06 am Click here to edit this post
So does that make it ok for Arreal to keep in touch with her friends and supporters by e-mailing them ? hmmmmmm I think NOT ! as I have read here Arreal did e-mail someone prior to asking for an exit from the house that she was going to leave? She (Arreal) also again e-mailed someone and confirmed her computer was down and she was having problems with it. I think it was enough that Arreal said this in the house,what was the point e-mailing someone from outside the Game and explaining this to them ? And then I see this spectator/friend going all out to defend Arreal with validation about her computer problems. Na just doesn't sound right....just a Game why cheat ? Seems there is alot of this going on.

Norequerdo

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 08:12 am Click here to edit this post
Well since so many are cheating inside and out, my view is let them go it it, it just adds a new dimension to the game, all the intrigue.. I love it. It just means that everyone is in the game inside and outside. At this point I dont care if anyone is emailing anyone. Whats the difference between an email and an IM. If Ims are allowed then whats the big deal with emails. It is obvious that there are posters who favor one person or another. I do feel strongly about one man one vote. If everyone can agree to commit to only voting once I think everyone will still enjoy the game.

Teebird

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 08:14 am Click here to edit this post
Solos
I added to another thread that I was remiss in not mentioning ArReal's name to my list for people "cheating."

Host

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 08:24 am Click here to edit this post
The Players have been told not to address E-mails from the "outside", and you all posting on the board know that they are not to receive outside information. It's hard when we have no control over who is doing what. As far as cutting the game short, or giving them time out to come out and read - no. As far as changing the rules next time and making them more specific - definitely yes. Again, this is a learning experience for us (big time). The Game will go on.

Digilady

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 08:31 am Click here to edit this post
Amen to the game going on!

Vkc =could=, however, have deleted that email.

He also didn't need to mention it: that was honesty.

Yes, ArReal was borderline cheating in going to that chatroom.

Perhaps clarify the rules and go on?

Norequerdo

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 08:36 am Click here to edit this post
Digilady, don't be shocked. I agree with you. Clarify the rules with the players.

Sbw

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 08:52 am Click here to edit this post
Wow, Nor, I agree with you and Digilady. If you clarify the rules most, not all, but most seem like they can be trusted on the honor system.

Norequerdo

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 08:56 am Click here to edit this post
our present to ERB, no bashing each other today??? I promise I will behave.

Digilady

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 09:27 am Click here to edit this post
LOL Nor! (I agreed with YOUR previous point too)

We are, after all, logical.

We also like to debate, ain't that the fun of it all?

*This ain't saying I ain't debating no more*

<snark>

PS NOR: NO BASHING? He'd be bored shitless...

Katie

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 10:51 am Click here to edit this post
So does that make it ok for Arreal to keep in touch with her friends and supporters by e-mailing them ? hmmmmmm I think NOT ! as I have read here Arreal did e-mail someone prior to asking for an exit from the house that she was going to leave? She (Arreal) also again e-mailed someone and confirmed her computer was down and she was having problems with it. I think it was enough that Arreal said this in the house,what was the point e-mailing someone from outside the Game and explaining this to them ? And then I see this spectator/friend going all out to defend Arreal with validation about her computer problems

I would like to clear this up. ArReal and I have been friends since summer when we met here on this site. We have provided emotional support to each other about our personal lives. Our friendship goes way beyond what is happening on this site. Now are all you suggesting that just because she is playing this game we should have to stop talking totally for a month? That our friendship should have to end or be put on hold because of a game? This is a game!
Is she expected to never talk to anyone during this entire game? Or only not talk to her friends who also love BB and this site? Or only talk with people off line? What if we lived in the same town and saw each other in person normally? Would we have to stop seeing each other during this game? These people aren't really sequestered in a house. They have real lives outside of this game. They live with real families and go to real jobs and see real friends and go out on real dates that have nothing to do with this game. Do people honestly think that because our friendship is maintained by internet that we can't be friends during this time? She and I were talking on line about the problem I was having with a female relative's health when her computer went down.
She told me she was having a problem with her computer and had to reboot. She never came back on line because she couldn't get that computer to work and had to get an old one working. She posted that and someone called her a liar and said it wasn't true. I simply backed it up and said it had happened because I knew she had been on line and gone to reboot and hadn't been back on line after that until the next day. This is not game information but technical information.
As far as asking to leave, she did not discuss it with me first. She told me she had already emailed the host and asked about leaving. It was already done!
For your information I had also been contacted by the host about her and also about her walking because she hadn't been returning their emails (once again because her computer wasn't working). This happened before her return. I was concerned about her as a person and not as a game player. I don't understand why people think that a friendship has to stop because of a simple game. We don't discuss the game but our lives. She opens herself totally up on the game. She tells all there. That is the whole idea and she is doing it. So what is the problem?

Lafatme

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 12:27 pm Click here to edit this post
here's the thing i haven't understood since the beginning, maybe someone can explain:

i am assuming that gail's aol name is not talisker and that optics aol name is not vykin (maybe a bad assumption) also, i'm assuming that arreal's aol name is not arreal.

so then, how did gail know that the person she invited into the chat was vyk? then, how did vyk know how to contact arreal and invite her too?

the middle man here is vyk, who didn't know either of these people, according to his posts. yet he knew to accept an invitation to chat from a stranger and knew to invite another stranger in also.

this is not a post to blame vyk, it's just that he's in the middle of the invitations.


how? somebody please explain.

Noslonna

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 01:01 pm Click here to edit this post
Laf.. if they were aware of each other's AOL email addies it would be a simple matter to know their AOL screen name. AOL uses screen name @aol.com for email.

Katie

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 01:11 pm Click here to edit this post
But how did they have the email address? Not everyone has one listed.

Spamgirl

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 01:14 pm Click here to edit this post
OK, I'm blind... but where did Vyk say he had outside info? I probably missed that post... ok, obviously I DEFINATELY missed that post... could someone please point me in the right direction? Thanks in advance!

Noslonna

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 01:20 pm Click here to edit this post
Katie, I don't know how they would have each other's email addresses. They could have sent emails before the game, they could have been exchanging emails during the game. They had emails posted before entering the game if they filled out a profile etc.

Gail, as a moderator could probably have access to a member's email address and used that info to track Arreal and Vykin down. Just guessing. I use noslonna @aol.com, for example, so it wouldn't be hard to find me on that hell if I ever logged on.

Katie

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 01:33 pm Click here to edit this post
If you check you will see that Roger/Lance doesn't and hasn't had an email address listed. I am not sure about the other. Roger was invited to chat with her. He refused. How did she get his email address?? How could she have chatted with him in a private chat without it?

Norequerdo

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 01:54 pm Click here to edit this post
Digi -- just biting my tongue. Gloves coming off tomorrow.

Whit4you

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 02:09 pm Click here to edit this post
Gail asked Roger to go the the clubhose chat room - IN the house. He refused. (She knew full well inviting him to the clubhose chat room was against the rules and if she didn't he pointed it out at that time) The others she invited "out of our view" as a matter of fact there are few actual interactions between gail and ANY of the posters there within our view.

Here is one however - the one your looking for.

../6170/6766.html?971072759

Talisker Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 10:27 pm
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Good night Moon! Thanks for thinking of us!Here's a little something for you!



Roger_Ramjet
Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 10:35 pm
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I looked at what you had to say about the orgy discussion. I wasn't suprised by what I saw,

(snip of Roger's rambling )

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Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 10:36 pm
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Lets go over to the club chat for a little bit. It is empty right now. . .

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Roger_Ramjet
Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 10:38 pm
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Moon--good night! Thanks for taking the time to come out and say good night before heading off--hey, isn't great that you have so many fans!
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Talisker
Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 10:41 pm
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Can you go to the chat room?

Archive through October 09, 2000

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The ClubHouse: The Game - Play Room: The Virtual House: The Virtual House - Archive: Outside: Archive through October 09, 2000
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Roger_Ramjet

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Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 10:38 pm
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Moon--good night! Thanks for taking the time to come out and say good night before heading off--hey, isn't great that you have so many fans!

Talisker
Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 10:41 pm
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Can you go to the chat room?

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Roger_Ramjet
Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 10:43 pm
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Tali, you're probably going to think I'm a wet blanket, although I notice in the rules that we aren't supposed to chat until we are given specific times. I take that to mean to be there as well, since we could listen in on what others are saying. If it's empty, we have no way of proving that. I hope you aren't mad. I'd talk to you about most anything here though.

Jana

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 04:09 pm Click here to edit this post
KATIE SAID:
"ArReal and I have been friends since summer when we met here on this site. We have provided emotional support to each other about our personal lives. Our friendship goes way beyond what is happening on this site. Now are all you suggesting that just because she is playing this game we should have to stop talking totally for a month? That our friendship should have to end or be put on hold because of a game? This is a game!"

Jana says: Katie, it is just a game, but I am in a similar situation as to you....I don't get to talk to Zelda any more either....but that is the game! She is on my joke list but so are 100 other people and i never address her personally. The HG in the television version had to put THEIR talks on hold ....if you want to tell her something about the game then send her a banner...if she wants to tell you something, she can say it on the internet cam. That's just my two cents on that. The End.

Whit4you

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 04:42 pm Click here to edit this post
Well my personal opinion on this, is that as long as you two both think you can avoid discussing ANY issues relating in with the game then why shouldn't you be able to talk to each other? What if one of the BGs boyfriend or sister is also on this board??? Um are they not allowed to talk about ANYTHING for the next month? The difference between this and BG is they agreed to be sequestered from the the entire world (newspapers, magazines, family and friends) and were doing so for a prize of 500,000.

The bigger the prize here in Cbyerland the bigger the concern should be between two friends on the challenges they face in chatting without discussing anything relationg to this game. I don't see ANY thing wrong with you sending that friend on the inside your joke list (as long as that joke list doesn't have anything on it that might be relevant to the game)

I think someone here might be grasping at straws to imply that ArReal sending a friend a message regarding her computer problems or anything else totally unrelated to this game is cheating. Her telling her friend that she was going to quit was NOT disclosing inside information to that friend because she'd ALREADY posted that information to the rest of us.

Tali, ArReal and Vykin ALL stepped WAY over the line - in sending each other private messages however. Thought it was pretty funny when Vykin claimed that they were only discussing technical issues like "do you want to meet in hottub or living room" and ArReal said she didn't realize discussing alliances and banishment were technical issues. LOL.

Just one final thing before I go - has anyone been watching the vote tally? It's funny the way it goes ArReal 30 .. Tali 30 then ArReal 31 then Tali 31 , ping pong ping pong. If I didn't know I was paranoid I'd think it was an awefully strange coincidence LOL - or cheating but then cheating isn't against the rules here so who cares. Ya know what I mean? LOL.

Whit

Katie

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 04:52 pm Click here to edit this post
Jana dear,
We don't talk about the game. We talk about my family and her family and personal stuff that has nothing to do with the game. Stuff that is too personal to post but has nothing to do with the game.
Next for everyone,what is the purpose of this not talking with us? So they don't get outside information to change the way they interact in the game. Now people are writing things about her here about how they don't like this or that about her. One of which is her discussing her mental health. Has she stopped doing that? No. Don't you think that if I was giving her outside information I would have told her that people don't like and and don't you think she would have stopped it? She is still doing the things that annoy people. That should go to show you that she isn't getting anything from me.