Lessons learned

The ClubHouse: The Game - Discussion Room: General : General - Archives: Oct. 6-16: Lessons learned

Whit4you

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 10:22 am Click here to edit this post
Lesson #37 "Clean Voting"


One step to resolve concerns about folks voting on "multiple accounts" my suggestion would be that only those "registering to vote" - be allowed to vote in the following weeks vote. When the game is opened - anyone wishing to vote in the following weeks poll - should be required to register to vote then. Those wishing to vote the 2nd week - who did not register the first week - should be required to register the week before. (THIS allows those entering the game in the middle to still vote if they have been there a week)

Now of course someone with no ethics could plan ahead and make and register 5 names the week before. BUT it would be a huge step in the right direction - because it would stop anyone from saying the last night of the vote "golly my choice is 5 votes behind - better do something about that"

I am not going to give you the 10 other reasons for this registering - but just trust me - it would be a huge step in resolving the "multiple names" - or "fights over possible multiple names" etc.

(Please read the following if you have issues to do with the CURRENT vote and multiple posts - otherwise your done, take care! )

I've been working closely with the voters here to make sure that the re-vote turns out the way those requesting the re-vote was intended to turn out. It's a slow process so far only 5 of the 30 who voted for ArReal have responded. There must be at least 15 or 20 more regular posters who voted for her - so once they've responded a conclusion can be made.

I am sure most here are aware of why this is being done. If ArReal is banished do to this re-vote it needs to be clear that this is what was intended by redoing the vote. I think it is very important since she was NOT voted out during the first vote - if she IS voted out this time - those voting did so clearly knowing this circumstances here.

In jury duty - they sometimes "poll" the jury. This is in a sense a voluntary polling the jury. Those responding are helping a great deal.

When the revote was opened I had been under the impression that it was because the majority of us had voted based on a misunderstanding (that those inside were not not cheating)

I have to believe that I was not the only one under this impression. I felt this "polling the jury" will allow those of us who were under that impression to accept the fact, if she is indeed banished that we were just missing-the-boat.

So far only 5 of the 30 have responded but once the other 15 or 20 regulars (and hopefully a few of the lurkers) respond - then it will be clear to me that the majority of people re-voting wanted this re-opened to banish ArReal, for the things that transpired since she'd made it through the first vote.

The 2nd issue - that my "polling the jury" is resolving is the dozens of people suspecting people making "multiple accounts"

I can't see anyone doing this knowing how it would look if she recieved 40 votes - and only say 8 or 9 regulars here say they voted for her.
Obviously if only 9 regulars here respond that does NOT mean the rest of the votes are not legit - there's no telling how many regulars here voted for her and don't see my thread here, or simply don't wish to respond to it. But if there are 40 voters and 29 regulars here who have made it clear they voted for her - then this will leave no doubt in ANYONES mind that the votes WERE legit. That will go a long way in clearing all those who seem suspicious.

Whit

Ocean_Islands

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 10:27 am Click here to edit this post
Could you try to be a little less long winded? If posts are too long, people don't read them because it's too much effort.

No intentions for voting or re-voting can be put into place, because a vote's outcome is always unknown.

People can only vote once from their computer.

People also change their minds.

Your solution is way too complicated.

We all have a lot of posts to read and there are some who would appreciate shorter posts, and less of them, to avoid clogging up the board.

Digilady

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 10:32 am Click here to edit this post
Ocean,

I agree on the long posts. Also, hitting "enter" to make readable paragraphs.

On the original issue: As I posted on another thread, a simple Login to Vote would help. Not cure, just help. And be a simple solution.

Let's not make this any harder on the Hosts than necessary.

Whit4you

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 10:46 am Click here to edit this post
Sorry Ocean I've never been on a board before where people were not able to "block out" the posters they don't wish to read. SOme people choose to write 20 small posts I choose to write 1 long one - all in all it's the same thing. How many times did I see neil post regarding people posting "short" posts in the Live feeds LOL.

At any rate - feel free to ignore my messages if you don't find them of intrest to you. Will free up more of your time to read the people bashing people posts LOL

Whitney

Ocean_Islands

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 10:52 am Click here to edit this post
Actually, I have no desire to block your posts. You seem to have some things to say.

I'm trying to help you understand that your message and communications is being lost in these long posts. It's actually not the same thing as smaller posts. Smaller posts are a give-and-take with other posters -- a conversation. Long posts are monologues.

I don't ignore any poster's messages.

The live feeds issue was related to live posting, not message boards.

Whit4you

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 10:55 am Click here to edit this post
OK I appreciate your feedback. The issues I've been addressing I feel are important enough to be very clear, and specific and all angles should be addressed. If you read any posts I posted prior to this ISSUE (the other boards) You will find they are much shorter LOL. However I appreciate your suggestion and will definately keep it in mind.

Whitney :)

Azriel1104

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 12:44 pm Click here to edit this post
Whit, I don't understand your obsession with this.
Arreal got quite a few votes the first time around.

Some people think that the way she outed Gail and Vyk was wrong. Some people don't think she is interesting in the game. Some people just don't like her, period. So what?

You sound like Jordan - ~whine~ I want to know who voted for Arreal and why?

Some people might just think it's none of your business.

Azriel1104

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 12:52 pm Click here to edit this post
Also, perhaps it would just be easiest to hide the results from us till after the poll is closed, then noone knows how their vote will affect the outcome.

Whit4you

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 12:54 pm Click here to edit this post
"Some people might just think it's none of your business."

Um - and I'd guess some people might not think it's any of your business to tell me that it's "None of my business" - next?

You don't EVEN want to know why I've become personally involved in the issues here - if you think I've been verbose to date - you've seen nothing yet. So unless or until I think someone REALLY wishes to know those details - I won't bother even getting started on "THAT"

Whitney

Sbw

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 12:57 pm Click here to edit this post
Whitney: Why?

Azriel1104

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 01:03 pm Click here to edit this post
Ouch! Sorry you are taking this all so personal, Whit. I was just trying to give you some reasons why everyone isn't running to answer your questions. I'll put you on the 'only post huggy nice replies' list.

Whit4you

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 01:06 pm Click here to edit this post
It's not a "secret" or a part of any of this conspiracy or any of that LOL - If you've read my posts here you'll see they are very verbose and those each just address one very specify issue. If anyone really wishes to know - I will write it offline and post my addy here for anyone who would like a copy. How's that :)

Whitney

Sbw

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 01:14 pm Click here to edit this post
Whitney, I asked why? I think in all of your posts I see an underlying theme of honesty but not sure and don't know the why.

Whit4you

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 01:16 pm Click here to edit this post
AZeil "You sound like Jordan - ~whine~ I want to know who voted for Arreal and why?

Some people might just think it's none of your business."

Oh sorry I didn't realize that wasn't meant to be taken personally, LOL.

ArReal was not banished the first time, if she is this time then I think those who chose to banish her will be happy if everyone is clear that this revote was meant for that purpose. Those who wish to help me achieve that goal are welcome to, those who do not wish to - don't need to. I have no problem with disclosing who I voted for - and also have no problem with those who for whatever reason would rather not disclose that information. Why do you care that I am asking folks who would like to share that information to share it? You were free to do so or not do so - no reason to even concern yourself with it after that. Not sure why the hostility on your end however - unless you felt that I was implying you HAD to share that information? Sorry if that was the case.

Whitney

Whit4you

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 01:31 pm Click here to edit this post
It would be really difficult to explain in 10,000 words or less but I guess with all the stuff going around on these boards I should at least try and post as brief a explination as possible. I'll just start with WHY I am involved in this to the extent I am. (gawd help me be brief LOL)

I spent 5 years as the "hostess/founder" Of a group of 400+ individuals online. This game - while completely different - holds all the same issues that were dealt with through those years. Everyone walked into this viewing it as a game - and obvoiusly it is. But based on 5 years of experience dealing with all the various aspects of this in one way or another. We went through every emotion, pain, hurt and so forth over those years and every possible ethical issue arouse at some point or another. The reason I became heavily involved in this and I tried to allude to it a # of times - is that while everyone here thinks of this as a game, I am unsure of how many here understand the possible outcomes. I do. I've been there. Went through it. I am NORMALLY a peacemaker that is WHO I am. Here I am NOT totally in that role, because my main concern was with the REAL well being of one of the guests here. That was and still is a major concern of mine. We are all playing a game here but we are also playing some SEROIUS mind games with real peoples emotions and this is something that I have a GREAT deal of experience with. I am going to leave it here but this is the tip of the iceberg - if anyone WISHES to know more then - ask I'll share more.

Whitney

Ocean_Islands

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 01:33 pm Click here to edit this post
Where were you during BB? You must have been going nuts.

Because our little game is driving you bonkers.

Ocean_Islands

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 01:35 pm Click here to edit this post
I think you need to take a chill pill, put up your feet, and have a drink! Start having some fun!

Whit4you

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 01:49 pm Click here to edit this post
BB had a professional shrink there watching the houseguests at all times. I was not concerned in anyway for them. :)

I didn't come here intending to "use my experience" I just came here because I missed Big Brother. I have not in anyway implied in any of my threads that "I understand THIS game more than anyone else involved in it" However as I said having dealt with just about every aspect of what is happening here in the course of 5 years - over 120 of them I met live - I am able to see potential situations that could happen here that perhaps others here may not. At any rate I think that's enough about ME back to the issues at hand -unless anyone feels they need or should know more.

Whitney

Azriel1104

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 01:49 pm Click here to edit this post
Whit, you seemed like you wouldn't rest until you had heard from every person that voted for Arreal. I was only trying to give you reasons why people might not be responding.

I told you at the start of the post that I didn't understand your obession with knowing. You seemed to be implying that noone had a good reason to vote Arreal out. I have seen people state the reasons I gave and I only added the last sentence because I thought that was one more reason that people might not be responding.

Geesh, Whit, the Jordan remark was to emphasis that I didn't understand why you don't understand that people have reasons for voting Arreal out. Neil didn't give us the revote to vote Tali out. He gave us the revote out of fairness, so that we could vote what we would have voted after we learned all the info. Some people know everything about Tali and they still want to vote Arreal out.

The revote is just as fair to Arreal as it is to the rest of the game players.

Norequerdo

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 01:50 pm Click here to edit this post
yea but who did you vote for whit???? LOL

Whit4you

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 01:54 pm Click here to edit this post
The reasons to me really aren't important to me personally - the only reason I asked for them is because I was trying to clear up my own (and I assume others) apparent misconception as to why this Revote was taken.

But thank you for taking the time to post, I'm glad I was able to let you know that I was not in anyway implying that I people HAVE to share this information.

Whitney

Norequerdo

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 01:55 pm Click here to edit this post
But who did you vote for???

Whit4you

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 02:01 pm Click here to edit this post
I think it's apparent to everyone here who I voted for (it's also posted on the "Polling the Jury, Did ya vote for Tali" thread. My vote for Tali has NOTHING whatsoever to do with ArReal. Those are two totally DIFFERENT issues to me. I was never "for" ArReal in this game - I am however FOR maintaining some shread of ethics here when there are real people with REAL feelings involved. Those who seem to think I am against ArReal because I am for Tali getting banished - just don't understand ALL the issues here. If anyone wants to know who I am "FOR" my winner is Roger. :)


Whitney

Norequerdo

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 02:03 pm Click here to edit this post
It doesnt matter who you voted for. I was making a joke. In a previous soliquoy you said you didnt mind telling people who you voted for. Just a joke.

Azriel1104

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 02:09 pm Click here to edit this post
Well we agree on one thing.

GO ROGER!

Nance

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 03:14 pm Click here to edit this post
Azriel...excellent thought to ponder hiding the outcome of the votes. Then there would be mass hysteria lol thinking the Big Host fixed the voting process :( Geez ya just can't please everyone.
Looks like Tali isn't oweing up to anything,this really disappoints me. Where-by Arreal made an open apology to both Gail and Vyk.
It looks like Gail will be banished anyway....But I am rather bothered by the thought that Gail hasn't been woman enough to apologize to Arreal and YES I agree Gail does seem to be dumping "it" all on Arreal :( Maybe Gail really has that shit shoveling job....

Whit4you

Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 05:00 pm Click here to edit this post
No I don't think the host fixing the votes would create mass hysteria here, after all it's not written in the rules. So therefore it isn't against the rules (just ask Gail, it being an implied rule is irrelevent, it would not be concidered cheating - but then cheating isn't against the rules here either so whatever. LOL)

As I've now mentioned I spent 5 years with a group of people the only rule we had was their were NO rules. We all lived by our own ethics and our own morals and learned to live with each others.

I've figured out that THIS is how this particular version of the game is being run as well - I assume if their is a Game II that their will be very specific rules and those rules will be enforced - including cheating being against the rules> Or at least I hope so.

If not then at least have a level playing field where ALL guests know that cheating is just fine and dandy and will be rewarded with special banners to encourage them! :)

I sure wish I were on the INSIDE in ArReal's shoes right now (not knowing anything more then she knows about this) Trust me it'd be a WHOLE different game right now. (And alot more peaceful for you guys on THIS side LOL)

I'd just make it clear via some private way to the other 6 players in this game that cheating is not only allowed in this beta version but incouraged...(should be NOTHING wrong with that, it's been tested and rewarded with banners) Tell them all "may the best cheater win" - and make it clear to them that their chances at this point of winning would be enhanced GREATLY if they do not let ANYONE else know they have been made aware of information that everyone else involved in this game at ALL levels are aware of BUT them.

That'd be my first move - I think I'll end it there after all - I wouldn't want to give ANY any ideas out there (but then I am sure none of the BGs would be cheating and be able to see this post anyhow - well at least not the 6 who don't realize it's ok to cheat LOL)

I have to be going now (they lock the door to my padded cell at 5:00)

NOW who's going to make us a SONG about this game???

Whitney

Vasix

Monday, October 16, 2000 - 06:50 am Click here to edit this post
I think hiding the vote count is the right thing to do. And folks look at the total number of votes. Pretty low. This is a game where it obvious that there are well defined cliques of people who are going to champion their person. And its also obvious that "cheating" or multiple voting is pathetically easy to do (given one was inclined by some overwhelming need to "prove" one's view by fixing the vote). Game is a just a test. Too small and inbred a group to get a real contest going. Arreal and Tali both have a good chance of being booted, one this week, perhaps one next week. Does it really matter why? Now I'm against the re-vote. It just keeps encouraging people to protest and whine and claim unfair. Hopefull Neil will stay the course and just let votes happen no matter what. And remember less than 100 votes have been cast and god knows how many "banish Arreal" or "lynch Tali the non-apoligizer" multi-voters there are.

Something

Monday, October 16, 2000 - 10:32 am Click here to edit this post
Talk about the pot and the kettle, I just finished reading some lame ass long winded post about misrepresentation posted by Ocean Island and then get to read her whine because someone else made a lame ass long winded post. Get a life!

Adven39

Monday, October 16, 2000 - 11:27 am Click here to edit this post
Ocean's a guy and he wasn't complaining about the occasional long post. He was referring to a particular poster who posted frequently about similar topics, with each post about as long as your arm.

Norequerdo

Monday, October 16, 2000 - 12:45 pm Click here to edit this post
So what. let people post what they want. If you dont want to read it you can skip it. I am sure many of you skip my posts and there are one or two people here whose posts I skip.

Adven39

Monday, October 16, 2000 - 02:02 pm Click here to edit this post
Sorry, Nor, but I don't think the point of a message board is to indulge yourself in the sound of your own voice. It's a give and take of information, insight and opinion that evolves throughout the thread. If you want to follow the progression of those ideas, you have to read all or most of the thread. If someone feels their own view is worth a few thousand words, time after time, then I think that person is more interested in pontification than communication. If we all did that, it wouldn't be long until you and Whit were the only ones left - and she's already taken her ball and gone home.

Digilady

Monday, October 16, 2000 - 02:11 pm Click here to edit this post
Amen, Adven. We won't mention the redundancy of said posts. Nor the indiscriminate use of bandwidth. Not everyone has high-speed access, and downloading numerous long posts takes time. And money, in some cases.

Also, people cannot post "as they want" on this board, mercifully: the term "Moderated" comes to mind.