Archive through October 30, 2000

The ClubHouse: The Game - Discussion Room: General : The Return Of Jesus - Debate Topic: Archive through October 30, 2000

Adven39

Monday, October 30, 2000 - 05:54 am Click here to edit this post
No, this doesn't have anything to do with Vykin getting out of the house. In fact, it doesn't have anything to do with the game. It's a debate topic for us out here.

It has been suggested that if Jesus were to return today, we would not believe it was Him. We'd see Him as a religious freak or a cultist and His miracles as cleverly crafted tricks.

Has our society become so jaded and cynical that we would dismiss Jesus even if He were to present Himself?

I didn't intend this as a religious debate, more a discussion of modern society, but feel free to take it where ever.

Spamgirl

Monday, October 30, 2000 - 06:03 am Click here to edit this post
Never ending loaf of bread? I'd believe it...

(That's the only miracle i remember, other than bringing people back to life... but I think that one is a given :) )

I think the jesus of today would have to be a little cooler... and I think he wouldn't be the same old jesus - heck, it's been a long time! He was hip to the times back then, and I think he would be now!

If Jesus came back, he'd be a rock star :) And everyone would believe everything he said. After all, he's famous.

Affinity

Monday, October 30, 2000 - 06:57 am Click here to edit this post
i'll be staying away from this one
FAR away

Princessjill

Monday, October 30, 2000 - 07:24 am Click here to edit this post
Jesus is gonna be pissed when He comes back, and who could blame him? We have certainly screwed up the world even worse than when he was here b4...do u really think we are a whole lot more civilized in today's world? Oh yeh, i forgot we didnt have Bill Gates back then....

Princessjill

Monday, October 30, 2000 - 07:27 am Click here to edit this post
Jesus is gonna be pissed when He comes back, and who could blame him? We have certainly screwed up the world even worse than when he was here b4...do u really think we are a whole lot more civilized in today's world? Oh yeh, i forgot we didnt have Bill Gates back then....

Elitist

Monday, October 30, 2000 - 08:13 am Click here to edit this post
Good question.

I believe you are right, that many would be jaded and critical. And I would bet the majority would either be opposed to him, or more likely apathetic.

But there would still be a large population of people that would accept him at face value (especially after he turned a few hundred thousand cases of Evian into beer).

There are too many people out there searching for something in the spiritual side, some who find it in there established religion, others who follow the self-proclaimed "prophets", who would immediately throw everything else away for someone such as Jesus who could back up his claims of divinity with real and consistent miracles.

I think the most interesting thing though would be to see what the established Christian religions would do. Can they give up their power and doctrine in the face of their God returned?

And sometime ask me about my theory on the Changing God.

Drdude

Monday, October 30, 2000 - 09:00 am Click here to edit this post
Princess, I completely agree with you!!! I know that if I were Jesus, I would be fuming, although, he has a LOT of patience and understanding and forgiveness. He would probably drop to his knees and say "man, I have to be sacraficed again to save these people?!"

If Jesus had come back, i would probably would go over to see him, just to see for myself.

Unfortunatly, we would not believe it. Look at the past examples we've had, David Koresh, Rev. Jim Jones, Doe, and there are a lot of others.

When we are given these examples of "false prophets", what else is there to do. I consider myself to be a religious person, but not devout. From time to time, I look out my bay window and watch the children walk by the front of the house and wonder,what have we left our children, will Jesus ever come to save them. I know that some of you would look at this and say, "this Doctor is a flake". It just hurts sometimes to see what we have done to ourselves and in society. If Jesus came back, I would want him to care for the children, the adults have already lived their lives. Save the next generation.:)

Whit4you

Monday, October 30, 2000 - 09:27 am Click here to edit this post
Religion was at one time in my life one of my favorite issues to discuss. Now I avoid it like the plague (by the way I just read a very detailed 1st hand account of The 1665 Plague - fascinating reading, email me at WhitInWa@aol.com if you'd like a copy)

Gonna give my 2 cents on this then hopefully avoid this thread! :)

If someone came along next month and started performing miracles, the only folks who would be convinced he was "for real" would be those who saw it live, first hand. Wouldn't matter if he performed his miracles on live TV at the World Series, only those THERE at the time and only those there who saw enough of them and could not find a way of proving they were hoaxes or illusions etc would believe that they really were miracles. As to who was performing them? That would depend on what religion you were I suppose.

The TV audience would be convinced it was all camera tricks / and copperfield type illusions. Wouldn't matter if 1/5th of the live audience saw enough/ and in a way they had NO doubts, the rest of the world would chalk it all up to mass hysteria - another Y2K type "hoax".

Anyhow I GOTTA get myself sooooooo far away from this thread, talking about religion drives me NUTS!!!!

p.s. don't bother tryin to "save me" according to the King James version of the bible I've been saved. So I'm good-to-go. :)

Karuuna

Monday, October 30, 2000 - 09:31 am Click here to edit this post
If Jesus came back... hmmm...

Would he have his own tv and radio talk shows? Website? Email address? Or would he eschew those modes of communication?

Certainly he would have a base of followers. Some sane, some not so sane. Clearly there are many people who are so empty and desparate they will follow anyone. And clearly there are many more people looking for something *real* to give their lives meaning, and soothe the pain they feel.

But it wouldn't be easy. Some people would be calling him the devil and a charlatan. Some people would call him a dangerous lunatic, and demand that he be stopped. Some people will band together and plan for his assassination.

In short, I don't think it would be all that different.

Drdude

Monday, October 30, 2000 - 09:39 am Click here to edit this post
Whit, I would never try to "save" you. I think that what you believe that is what you believe and nothing can change that. In fact, it bothers me to the bone when people come to your door at 5 am in the morning trying to "save" a soul. Who are we to save anyone, isn't that God's job? You can believe how you would like, that is what makes you unique. That is your right.

Adven39

Monday, October 30, 2000 - 10:07 am Click here to edit this post
What form might he take? A latter-day hippie? A guy in sweatshirt and jeans? Business suit? As a female or a minority? Unless he was the caricature of the standard Sunday school picture, I think he would be ignored initially. If he developed a following large enough to gather attention, would many see his miracles as tricks used to dupe people into following him? With no personal, credit or employment history, would people start to speculate that he was a charlatan with something to hide?
Finally, if his following became even more significant, would he be seen as a threat to the existing social order and, therefore, a target of governments?
In other words, would religious history repeat itself?

Rod

Monday, October 30, 2000 - 10:14 am Click here to edit this post
What would you do if he came back and performed all the miracles etc etc..everything very credible...but he didn't call himself Jesus. Maybe he calls himself the Jewish Messiah (aren't they still waiting?) Or maybe the reincarnation of Buddha or Mohammed.YOu get the point. Name any other religious figure except a Christian one.

But the miracles are real. You see them first hand.

Would you be ready to believe them then, when it flies in the face of your current religious beliefs? Isn't that the true test?

Affinity

Monday, October 30, 2000 - 10:16 am Click here to edit this post
what if He is already here?

Wink

Monday, October 30, 2000 - 10:27 am Click here to edit this post
Well sheesh you mean Guru ISN'T Him? I mean he has a HUGE following!! Look how many people he convinced to "bump" just by the power of his presence. And miracles. Well just don't get me started!!

Norwican

Monday, October 30, 2000 - 10:38 am Click here to edit this post
Not to be funny or anything... but there is a guy that comes into a tavern that I go to occasionally.

He dresses and looks just like the "Sunday school picture"... robes, sandals, hair.. everything. He calls himself Jesus and walks up to everyone and says in a very soft, kind voice... "Hello my son/daughter, would you like my blessing today?" Well, of course most of the bar patrons think he is just mentally ill... but nobody refuses the blessing (just in case).

Just to add this note, there is also a guy that frequents this bar that dresses up and looks exactly like Abraham Lincoln... no further comment

Karuuna

Monday, October 30, 2000 - 10:42 am Click here to edit this post
Norw -- how interesting! I do remember seeing several articles last year about a gentleman who traveled about rural Pennsylvania. He dressed and looked the part of the historial Jesus, altho he did not call himself by that name. He did preach in the area, tho not in a church, and the townspeople were quite taken by him. I saw a tv report on him, and he was incredibly soft spoken and humble. Never heard any more about him, tho.

Lafatme

Monday, October 30, 2000 - 11:11 am Click here to edit this post
an interesting book was written on just this subject. i believe it's called "the second son"

in it the original apostles are reincarnated to support him. he is a construction worker who does not know his true purpose here.

gets involved with every major religious leader on earth, all trying to claim him for themselves. they all start fighting over him, the pope kidnaps him.

good book, look for it. i'm not gonna reveal the end.

Vasix

Monday, October 30, 2000 - 11:14 am Click here to edit this post
Kar-IMac I saw the same story. I'm keeping an eye out for him when I'm here in Pittsburgh. He was supposedly very kind, accepted no money or offerings except food and a place to sleep. The article I read said that the people that met him felt like they at least met a gentle humble force that helped them imagine what meeting the real Prophet would be like. As for the bible, I'm into the lillies, that neither toil nor sow...

Elitist

Monday, October 30, 2000 - 11:22 am Click here to edit this post
Hey, if someone claiming he was Jesus came in all "soft and humble" then I would pretty much know he was a fake. Remember he was the one that drove the moneychangers out of the temple.

The "Sunday school picture" of Jesus is pretty much a myth. Jesus was a carpenter (or a carpenter's son) for the first 30 years of his life. Plus he hung around with his homies, which were prostitutes, fishermen, and tax collectors. Not the most savory bunch of people in the world.

Then he led an insurrection against the Roman Empire. How gutsy can you be?

Vasix

Monday, October 30, 2000 - 11:47 am Click here to edit this post
Well Ghandi was a half naked jobless man and he brought the British Realm to its knees without lifting a hand or uttering a single word of profanity. He just was. Perfectly aligned, centered and focused. The quiet storm. Wins everytime.

Karuuna

Monday, October 30, 2000 - 12:25 pm Click here to edit this post
Vasix -- u can be a lilly if you want to, u serve ur purpose in making us laugh and think. Now if you could only get paid for that!

Karuuna

Monday, October 30, 2000 - 12:36 pm Click here to edit this post
Elitist -- depends on what Sunday school u go to, I imagine. If u hop over to a fundamentalist type church, there's plenty of table turning going on. It surprises me how often folks bring up the passage of the moneychangers to demonstrate what a gutsy guy he was. While it's true he had a few episodes of anger in the gospels, by and large he seems to have spoken firmly, but gently and forgivingly. The few times he did show his anger were always directly in the face of blatant hypocrisy.

Elitist

Monday, October 30, 2000 - 12:40 pm Click here to edit this post
But Ghandi came from a religious background that favored those traits, did he not? (Correct me if I am wrong - my Eastern religion knowledge is not the best - sorry Father Ocean).

Whereas Jesus came from a fairly violent ethnic background, what with the Jews history of conquering and being conquered. And all that sacrifice and stuff.

Ghandi's form of resistance was built for the religious beliefs of the people he led. Jesus resistance was built on the religious beliefs of his time - except he did seem to be a bit non-violent in a somewhat violent culture.

Do you think if you sat Ghandi down as a Jew in Jesus time that he would have the same affect on the Roman Empire (or if Jesus was set down in Ghandi's time)?

Vasix

Monday, October 30, 2000 - 12:45 pm Click here to edit this post
Kar-IMac I'm going to be a plant next time cause I'm getting cremated and put in my garden. So if you see an odd flower and bust out laughing, it could be me! Or if its a flower that has chocolate chip cookie breath. That will be a dead give away.

Elitist

Monday, October 30, 2000 - 12:49 pm Click here to edit this post
How could chocalate chip cookie breath be a DEAD give away when you have been reincarnated?