Homosexuality & Issues: Pros/Cons?
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Homosexuality & Issues: Pros/Cons?
Moondance | Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 01:13 pm  I believe everyone is free to believe in what they do.... I am not saying anyone is wrong... I just wanted to make clear that the bible is left up to one's interoperation. I am just happy when someone has a belief ... their own! |
Xenia | Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 01:21 pm  Himay: "And don't put words in my mouth. I DID NOT say "that because gay people aren't following the word of the Bible then they are not living up to righteousness of God." Those were your words." Of course those are my words. I never said you said that. If you had, I would have put your words in quotes. I just find it so ironic, that according to you, "I don't see "GAY", I see attractive, funny, hard-working, loving people and I enjoy my friendships with them". Yet at the same time, you see them as being unnatural. You do see them as being unnatural, right? If the God you believe in sees them as being "unnatural" (according to you) then you must believe the same thing. Interesting. |
Luke | Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 01:57 pm  WHOA! Hold the phone! This is kinda funny here! Sounds like a catfight in here already over homosexuality--and it's between the straight people! Hello one and all--just got done with work (yup, I got a job that keeps me busy on Sunday mornings). Let me get caught up with some posts (and make myself comfortable here), and I'll be back in a jiff to chat... Boy I got to say. |
Moondance | Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 02:31 pm  Go Luke Go Luke!!!!! |
Luke | Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 02:41 pm  One thing first, Himay, regarding your quote of Paul's letter to the Romans... without getting to much into Scripture, I just try to always remember to use caution when quoting the Bible. I've studied my New Testament Greek and dabbled in Hebrew, and I still feel quite inadequate to quote the Bible on many things! You just might want to be a bit more careful with the passage you quoted, "Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise..." unless you truly understand the Greek meaning of "para physin" [unnatural] as well as its 7 different uses in the epistles of Paul. Also, be sure that you are well educated the practices and perversions of 1st century pagans--to which Paul was addressing. Otherwise, you fall into the error of quoting a book in a language completely distinct to its language of origin, and applying it to a place and time that Paul could never have even imagined. Actually, Paul isn't really addressing homosexuality per se, especially when you read on in the Epistle, and when you put it into the socio-historic context of when the book was written. As far as homosexuality is concerned, most Scripture scholars will agree that there is no where in the Bible where homosexuality, in today's sense of the word--where two people of the same sex can actually fall in love, live together, work together, laugh and cry together, make love together--i.e. a 21st century meaning of homosexuality, is ever condemned. |
Luke | Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 02:50 pm  But all that Bible stuff is besides the point, really. I mean there are always going to be open minded people and closed minded people. And being gay--and consequently meeting a lot of closed minded people--has really helped me to catch myself in my own prejudices. And living near San Francisco, the gay issue comes up quite a lot... I love it here, though... P.S. Himay, let me recommend a book to you: What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality by Daniel A. Helminiak, PhD. It's only around $12. on amazon.com! Oh, and about the fact that you can't imagine being attracted to another woman.... let me tell you... I feel the same way! Never had sex with a woman, never cared to, and never will! (Only thing is, I'm a guy!) Straight sex has always baffled me... but not to the point where I'd want to try it! Now don't get me wrong here... I'm not prejudiced.... some of my best friends are straight. I mean, you guys didn't choose to be like that, so it's not your fault... HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! |
Moondance | Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 02:58 pm  Well said Luke ... glad you could make it back! |
Himay10ns | Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 03:04 pm  Wow Luke, thanks for the insight. I especially like the way you addressed me, in a very knowledgeable and calm tone rather than an angry, defensive one. What I quoted was from the Revised Standard Version and it was a passage pointed out to me in church during a sermon on homosexuality. Honestly, I don't think much about homosexuality. It's just not an issue for me. I've probably talked more about it today than I have my entire life. And at this point, I'm ready to put away the keyboard!! Oh, and Luke, let me just take this time to say I'm sorry to hear of your breakup. We've all been there at one point in our lives and I never like to see other people hurting. From the other posts, it appears that you have a lot of love and support in this room. Hang in there.... I'm not a Bible beater....I just brought the scripture up to add another angle to this conversation. There is always going to be a religious side to every debate, I just happened to be the one to bring it up. Xenia, I did not say that gay "people" are unnatural, but it is MY OPINION that two people of the same gender engaging in a sexual act is unnatural. I may be the only one in the entire world that thinks this, but so be it. I guess I'm finding it a little ironic that I'm being bashed for basically saying that I accept all people, no matter their preference. I do however, have a tough time accepting people that exude such negative energy as Xenia. And I guess from the looks of the last banner, the fans have spoken. |
Himay10ns | Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 03:09 pm  Luke, you are hilarious!! I wish I could give you a big fat hug!! A great attitude and a fabu sense of humor!! |
Roger_Ramjet | Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 03:13 pm  Luke--thanks for the post--and thanks for your humor! |
Arreal | Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 03:34 pm  {{{{{Everyone}}}}} |
Roger_Ramjet | Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 04:04 pm  Arreal and everone--(((back at you)))! |
Xenia | Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 04:56 pm  Oh gosh! Look at all the hugs! Makes me feel all squishy inside! Luke: My guess would be you've had to delve into the Bible/homosexuality issue many times before. I respect that you're able to state your opinions rationally. Himay: You really need to get a thicker skin. Your posts about this issue are full of contradictions and obviously you feel uncomfortable being challenged. |
Arreal | Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 05:18 pm  I'm kind of surprised I didn't get hollered at for my post along with Mays. May, I understood what you were saying in your post. |
Himay10ns | Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 05:19 pm  My skin is plenty thick, I just happen to be a person that shys away from confrontation. I would rather be known as non-confrontational than antagonistic. I like to surround myself with positive people, people who edify me and lift my spirits. That doesn't make me better or worse than you Xenia, only different. You might be able to sour my experience in the Play Room but you can never steal my joy! It amazes me still how you have this window into my soul after one silly conversation that meant nothing. You have no idea who I am or what I have been through in the past 36 years. I reread your application earlier and I have to admit, you are staying true to your intentions. I gather that you are greatly satisfied when people "react" to you and your antagonistic attempts, therefore, as of now, I choose not to react. Frankly, this whole interaction has been boring and I'm walking away from it feeling sorry for you. |
Himay10ns | Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 05:21 pm  Thank you Arreal, that means a lot to me. |
Luke | Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 05:28 pm  Actually, Arreal... I guess I initially must have skipped your post on religion... Wow... "The homosexual can choose to live celibate or fight the urge." True. Or, the gay man or lesbian woman or bisexual or transgendered person can choose to embrace this wonderful gift of sexuality that God in Her infinite wonder has given us... That's what I've done. Of course God loves gays as well as cancer patients, ax murderers, homophobes and heterophobes. After all.... She is just as gay as I am and as straight as you are. (She's probably got a more fabulous wardrobe than either of us, though...!) |
Moondance | Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 06:38 pm  I agree Luke ... To add... I also do not believe God looks at homosexuality the same as someone with an illness or disease. Homosexuals are not inflicted with something it is a sexual preference. Everyone has a right to have their preference! |
Arreal | Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 07:11 pm  Luke--I love your posts. Bright, witty and true to your convictions. I appreciate your insights and knowledge. Big hugs. One question....how straight am I?  |
Talisker | Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 08:32 pm  I try to be pretty open minded when it comes to gay rights. The truth is, I have worked all of my adult life in a sheltered environment that doesn’t allow racism, sexism, sexual harassment or disparaging comments about a person’s religion, or nationality. The military has a ways to go but for the most part, things run pretty smoothly. There is that one exception though, if you are gay, you are not supposed to let on to anyone, don’t ask, don’t tell. I am not homosexual – the truth is, I like men’s bodies and I like to f*ck too much to ever consider that lifestyle for myself. But, events in my life 7 years ago helped me understand a little bit of how and why a person would choose to live in a same sex relationship. I had been with a man who did a pretty fair job of making me feel like I was the most unworthy person on the planet. When it was all over and I was hating myself for being so stupid, one thing I found myself needing was being around more women friends. They were typically more nurturing, and I was at a very low point in my life, pretty much dead inside. The last thing I wanted was another man around me but I felt like I needed someone close. Not for sex but for companionship. At that time, I felt like I could understand why a person would choose a same sex lifestyle. It’s been a few years and those days are behind me now. One thing I have noticed is that when you learn that someone is gay or a lesbian, it all of a sudden changes who or what they are. Their sexual orientation becomes forefront. Like, he’s a gay actor, or he’s gay. Or she’s a lesbian. You stop seeing them as who they are and worry if they are going to put the moves on you. That is such total bullshit! I personally don’t see any difference in me finding a man attractive and another man finding a man attractive. You just have to keep it in context. I mean, attraction is attraction – you meet someone and you make eye contact (or something gets your attention) and you look for a signal from the other person. If you don’t get the signal, look in another direction. Doesn’t matter if it is same sex/opposited sex. It is my sincere hope that one day in the future, many of the hang-ups we have today will fade away. We will evolve to a place where it won’t matter who your mate or partner is, just that you have been lucky enough to find someone to share your life with, who understands you and who makes you happy. Be it male/female or male/male or female/female as long as you and your partner are happy, who’s right is it to interfere. I for one am glad that the powers that be are starting to look at same sex relationships when considering benefits. Different strokes for different folks. |
Talisker | Saturday, October 14, 2000 - 09:06 pm  I was just thinking . . . the more I know about women, the more I understand why there are so many gay men.
Some women can be ArRealPain  |
Roger_Ramjet | Saturday, October 14, 2000 - 09:12 pm  Tali--stop, freeze! Earlier today May asked you about something you said, or asked in general and I think she wanted to know. You mentioned something about outside contact with BGs and others was going on more than we? (anyone?) realized?? Or something like that??? Will you be addressing that, or are you going to leave it at that?? Not bitching either way you do it--just being curious. I could care less, I guess--I'm not sure what good outside contact would have in any event. |
Luke | Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 04:55 pm  Huh? Oh okay... i though somebody was resurrecting this topic... it was just commentary... but if anyone has further thoughts on the subject, i'm all ears (and eyes too!) |
Roger_Ramjet | Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 06:15 pm  Well, this is one of the discussion topics I owe an answer to. Not trying to avoid it--just haven't been able to get ot everything--I also work while doing this! I work a lot--another topic. I went back and looked at the original qestion to go with the title, and didn't get a clear indication there wa anything more structured than "provide what you think". I can do that! Pros and Cons?? As far as the issue itself of being homosexual, hetrosexual, or having desires of both, I say be who ever you are. Don't be someone you aren't. Now the issue of how a person is treated definitely has pros/cons associated with it. I think it sucks we are that way as a race. I know that as a group, humans have been the ones to punish themselves too many times. We treat each other like crap, and this is just one case. This thing about thinking someone else is bad for believing in something different or being different, when it doesn't hurt anyone else. All these people in the world that have decided their way is the best way for not only themselves but everyone else. I just don't get it--I admit it. Devo had an album--"Dare to Be Differrent". It is quite a dare these days...and days previous to us as well. Galileo sure didn't fair too well in being different, did he????? Until we, as a race, can come to terms that we aren't so good, or what ideas have aren't so good as to force them upon the rest of civilization, I don't see this problem going away. For me, as an individual, just want to do what I think is right for myself, so long as I'm not hurting someone else. If I don't like someone else's approach I can choose to not be included if that is important to be. I shouldn't demand they think the way I do...about this topic or others like it. |
Vykin | Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 08:41 pm  good post roger! |
Luke | Sunday, October 15, 2000 - 10:23 pm  Roger... You can tell a couple of things that by what you posted. First, that you've spent some time thinking about this topic... perhaps not homosexuality specifically, but more in general how people treat other people who are different. For that, as a gay person, and as a human being, I thank you and I commend you. It never ceases to amaze me how people just don't give enough thought to different things... about how we interact with each other... about how our differences our simply differences--and not necessarily boundaries nor obstacles between each other. I think you've been able to see beyond that and that's a very admirable quality that you possess. Second of all, I guess I'll place this post here in this thread... Probably because I've spoken my mind or at least addressed the topic that (obviously) speaks to me the most in this discussion forum. Since I first came into this house, I've admired you--your patience, your wisdom, your insight... Your qualities remind me of many mentors I've had in the past... and I think that out of everything I'll experience (and have already experienced) in this virtual house, I know that one of the most positive will have been to have met you. To others who are reading this... I really believe there's a lot of wisdom in these posts... Regardless of the bitching, the fighting, the name calling... Regardless of the web banners and the suspicions... And regardless of the sexual innuendos... There's a lot that can be learned about ourselves as human beings, and how human beings interact with each other. Our differences don't necessarily need to divide us... and the more opportunities we give ourselves to learn about other people's viewpoints, the more we grow and mature--both as individuals and as members of our communities. |
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