Archive through October 19, 2000
The ClubHouse: The Game - Discussion Room: General :
Do you believe in Synchronicity?:
Archive through October 19, 2000
Ocean_Islands | Wednesday, October 18, 2000 - 02:55 pm  Some theories cannot be proven, for instance: the beginning of the universe, economics, the existence of time. That does not mean they are not real. |
Ocean_Islands | Wednesday, October 18, 2000 - 02:57 pm  I'm afraid I'm not at the library right now, or I would give finding the reference a shot. And what about the occurrence of dreams, which also is addressed in Synchronicity theory? Dreams that come true, for instance. |
Adven39 | Wednesday, October 18, 2000 - 03:03 pm  In purely philosophical terms no theory - even gravity - is absolute fact. In scientific terms, a theory becomes law or fact when the overwhelming preponderence of the empirical evidence indicates it to be so. Even evolution, which still has some doubters, is considered to be closer to law in most academic circles. |
Elitist | Wednesday, October 18, 2000 - 03:04 pm  Well your phone coincidence is nice too. But lets look at the chances of that happening. Lets see - you are friends - so there is a good chance you talk to each other. Maybe even phone each other. Now how often do you talk? And when do you usually phone each other. How long have you known each other? This has happened to me by the way - I will call my wife and all of a sudden instead of a ring I will get her punching in my number. But lets see, I have been married 17 years, I work a ways from home, we call each other 5 to 10 times a day during the week, I am only at work 8 hours a day, and there are certain times she knows I am not in the office (like lunch). And we also get into the habit of calling about the same time each day. Another way to think about it - how many phone calls do you make each day? Take this, multiply it by how many days you have been using the phone, then you have a good idea how many chances you have had of this happening. It is not suprising it has ocurred, and since it probably has ocurred at least once to many people, you can use it as an example for synchronicity. Of course it is all random probability. |
Adven39 | Wednesday, October 18, 2000 - 03:06 pm  Sorry, to me, dreams that appear to have a connection of some sort to an actual event, are coincidences, too. |
Elitist | Wednesday, October 18, 2000 - 03:09 pm  Wait, the beginning of the universe is not a theory. Either it began or not. Now there are theories of how the universe began, and those are tested by gathering of astronomical data to test them. And as time goes on, some theories are discarded and some go on. New ones crop up. Some are modified as new facts are found. The point is as long as it is a theory, it is unproven. And even laws are suspect and constantly being tested <grin>. And of course there is the theory that the universe never had a beginning... |
Resortgirl | Wednesday, October 18, 2000 - 03:10 pm  I was napping and the phone rang, I didn't want to get it but I thought, "what if it's my daughters boss saying she doesn't have to work tonight" I answered and it was a friend , long distance. Call waiting beeped in but I ignored it. After I hung up I was saying goodbye to my daughter and thought"I should check to see if that last caller left a message" I checked and sure enough.. It was her boss saying she didn't have to work. She has never called before to say that. Hmmmmmm..... |
Elitist | Wednesday, October 18, 2000 - 03:13 pm  As for dreams, isn't it more likely that the subconcious during sleep is correlating things that the conscious mind might not be aware of, then having it surface in dreams? |
Ocean_Islands | Wednesday, October 18, 2000 - 03:14 pm  Well obviously in certain cases the phone thing is totally understandable and even to be expected. However, for me it has happened when out of the blue a thought occurs to me to call my sister, for instance, and the same thought occurs to her at the same time. We don't speak that often, and not on a regular basis. So your explanation does not apply in this case. In 1865, the President of the United States woke up and said to his wife, "Last night I had a dream. I went downstairs and people dressed in black were around. I asked someone what was the matter. 'The president has died,' came the response. There was a funeral in the White House." Lincoln's assassination came not long afterwards. |
Adven39 | Wednesday, October 18, 2000 - 03:26 pm  How many time have you called your sister and she was NOT planning to phone you at the same time? If it happened virtually every time, you might have something there. |
Elitist | Wednesday, October 18, 2000 - 03:26 pm  And do you not think that Lincoln was under a tremendous amount of stress, that he was living in a time that death was constantly occuring? Did you think that Lincoln's subconcious might not have come up with a possible escape from the pressure he was under? Or that it knew the extreme dislike that many carried for him (probably the whole South) and this manifested in a "death" dream? And how many times have presidents had "death" dreams and nothing came of them. You don't hear about those cause they don't make a good story. Of course a lot of people might have liked Nixon to of had such a dream. The mind will latch on to these coincidences, but ignore the times nothing happens. So if you have a dream about your sister every night, and then one day you see her on the street, you say "synchronicity". But why didn't you see her every other day? And why are you dreaming about your sister every night? |
Adven39 | Wednesday, October 18, 2000 - 03:32 pm  Ocean, Elitest, this has been fun (I'm not trying to be glib, I really enjoyed it). I've got to go out for the evening. I look forward to seeing where this thread has taken off when I get back. |
Riviere76 | Wednesday, October 18, 2000 - 03:37 pm  Aye, synchronicity is alive and well. Too many instances in my own life to discuss and have heard of others as posted. Synchronicity rules my life more than any manmade religions, that I can say.. |
Ocean_Islands | Wednesday, October 18, 2000 - 03:37 pm  A man woke up one morning; he was rooming with some friends. They were in an isolated environment, without contact with anyone, without news or newspapers, or any information about the outside world at all. "I had a dream that the Concord jet crashed," he said. The Concord had crashed just days before; it had never crashed before in over twenty years of service, and was widely believed to be crash-proof. It crashing was extremely unlikely; it crashing that week was even less likely! His dreaming about it was even less likely than that! So why did Eddie dream this? |
Gomer | Wednesday, October 18, 2000 - 03:44 pm  After weeks of lurking I see something that holds an interest to me. Congrats to whoever (I tend not to look at posters names-just read the post) came up with this. I'm in the random acts of happenings camp,or as Vonnegut put it-"It was all an accident"in one of his stories-in response to the what's life all about question to his protagonist. While the monkeys may not type hamlet-they're sure to type something that someone will grasp as meaningful-case in point the Baby Ruth/Curtis Confection co. and the urban legend that won't go away story. Legend has it that it was named after Grover Cleveland's daughter born in white house in 1891-died 1904 of diptheria-whereas the bar debuted in 1921 a year after the Yankees bought Babe Ruth who proceeded to hit a record shattering (at that time) 54 homers-prev record being somewhere in mid 30's-and etching himself into the countries superstar legend forever. The 2 camps in discussion (candy company and rational thinkers) debated it because Ruth wanted royalties from company whereupon company stated their Cleveland daughter claim-even tho she (and the former pres) had been dead for almost 20 yrs-and out of the popular news for that long. Herein lies the synchroncicity of those events which prove something to someone who'll believe. Baby Ruth b'91 Babe ruth B'95 (4 yrs apart) Baby Ruth d-1904 G.Cleveland d-1908 (4 years apart) 4 yrs later (1912) scouts show up to watch Babe play in orphanage/sandlot league games Signed to contract in 1914 (4th yr of the decade) when Curtis confectioners where being formed. Played fulltime (pitcher AND outfielder-was pitcher previously) 4 years later-1918- Sold to Yankees 1n 1920 when he hit 54 (4 again)homers,and 4 yrs after Curtis'1st commercial candy bar (1916) When Curtis introduced the Baby Ruth bar it was their 4th commercialy successful confection. Babe Ruth died in 1948-40 years (4 decades) after Cleveland,and 44 yrs after"baby ruth"-and his body was viewed at Yankee stadium where it sat for 2 (x2=4) days for public viewing by (among others) 4 members of Cleveland's kin +4 members of the Curtis'clan. Unfortunately for the rest of the mourners/viewers (who totalled according to press reports of the time-at about FOUR hundred thousand) he was buried on the 4th day after his death-and the Cleveland clan was never heard from again in groups of 4-altho The Curtis' made a last ditch attempt at perpetuating the ongoing coicidences,when in 1951 (4 decades after the Baby Ruth Bar)they attempted to introduce a 4 musketeers bar-and were subsequently banned from any more serious attempts at their"originality in advertising"when it was pointed out that the Mars company already had a 3 musketeers bar. All those 4's coincidence?maybe-but-if you read this far and have that natural curiousity that attracts us all to get closure on events-remember this----- The next door you open could have someone with a pie in their hand in back of it   Sometimes reality sucks-that is if you're the pie target |
Adven39 | Wednesday, October 18, 2000 - 03:52 pm  Sorry, I'm back for one more comment. Ocean, you're just citing anecdotes. There are millions of people having millions of dreams. Every once in a while someone happens to have a dream that, by chance, happens to mirror an event from their life. When it doesn't, it's just another quickly forgotten dream. On the rare occasion that it does, it's a coincidence that some see as having some kind of larger significance. What criteria are you using for separating coincidence from synchronicity? |
Guruchaz | Wednesday, October 18, 2000 - 03:59 pm  Yes. I love The Police. |
Ocean_Islands | Wednesday, October 18, 2000 - 03:59 pm  One often-remarked-upon aspect of Synchronicity is that the coincidences often seem meaningless but remarkable. This one would have to fit in that category. Here's another one, which you probably already know: President Lincoln's secretary's name was Kennedy. President Kennedy's secretary was named Lincoln. Abraham Lincoln was elected to Congress in 1846. John F. Kennedy was elected to Congress in 1946. Abraham Lincoln was elected President in 1860. John F. Kennedy was elected President in 1960. Both successors were named Johnson. Andrew Johnson, who succeeded Lincoln, was born in 1808. Lyndon Johnson, who succeeded Kennedy, was born in 1908. Abraham Lincoln died in 1865. Andrew Johnson died in 1875. John F. Kennedy died in 1963; Lyndon Johnson died in 1973. Both presidents were shot on a Friday. Both assassins were known by three names, both names contain fifteen letters. |
Riviere76 | Wednesday, October 18, 2000 - 05:25 pm  Ok, an instance.. I rarely dream except IF events happen. I dreamed of TWA 800 crashing in a giant fireball, woke up sweating, shaking, crying, on Sunday night. I never see the details of the actual plane crashes I dream of, but they sadly always happen. Monday I went to the track after spending $70 on boxes to my son's new home, and won $200 making a profit. I was tired but sat down at 11pm to write my husband a letter about my dream and mundane events. I mailed it Tuesday. I wrote I saw a jet crash by a city, much fire, on the east coast, no other details, it was dark, it scared me, felt frustrated. I begged him to take a bus from his 2 wk business trip to Virginia, or let me drive down, just begged him not to fly, it affected me that deeply. I never write my husband when he's away and rarely call, so this is unusual alone. Then Wed I felt sick all day for no reason, just edgy and throwing up, nervous. I felt a need to talk to my husband and called him about 9pm CST, just to make sure he was ok, we didn't talk about my letter as he didn't get it yet. That's unusual for me to call, again, but I told him I loved him and worried, my letter would explain. Told him not to fly home, I'd drive all the way to fetch him, just no flying? He said ok and we went to bed. Next morning I woke up to the bad news, I literally fell down crying and so sad, frustrated it happened. I got a call from a lady an hour later saying Mark got my letter that Thur clearly postmarked Tues and he nearly fainted on watching the CNN news, how could I explain it? I don't know.. Precognition, I have too much of that. It goes with synchronicity in the order to events somehow. Why some do see into the future others are closed minded, I wish I did not have the visions and don't want them when I am just helpless to do anything. I try hard to block my visions out instead of use them, unless they're to the good. Long ago I had a real color dream of my husband winning at a casino, so we went, and it all came true, my dead grandmother sometimes will come to me and tell me lotto numbers, who knows why or when synchronicity or other factors play a part in life? That's a question best left for folks to answer for themselves I guess... |
Gomer | Wednesday, October 18, 2000 - 05:30 pm  A side note to my previous post-- I made up some of the"facts" to perpetuate the 4 theory. As many do with those Lincoln references-to wit the "dream"anothr urban legend.Wanted to see if any would bite-hence the smilies. It's been my life's observation that some will to any story.Color me cynical,but those are my beliefs-ESPECIALLY if said story references are on internet. Also have a healthy cynicism for the printed press to wit Chariot OF The Gods-which seems to bring synchronisity to bear,eg.times of the aztecs.Mayans.Egyptiasns,Babylonians re pyramid building. I just put it down to a natural evolution of Homo Sapiens and his brain's capacity at any given time in history,ie,they all had the same stimuli (fire,the stars,etc) to postulate what these things meant to his existence/survival and they all came to approximate revaltions. In today's society,with more facts,and more theories,to expound on it's only natural for some to look at synchroisity,astrology,numbers,whatever as a new enlightenment and I have no problrm with that-as long as people realize it's just an assumption not proven by fact-and could be POSSIBLY putting blinkers on people to alternate explanations-which I consider a waste of talent/brainpower when so many other REAL situations demand our intellect-case in point here a national election where some people will vote on a candidate because of a sun sign or some other equally,IMO,useless denominator. I'm squarely in the Aven-Elitist camp,in that some of these"new Age"theories are given WAY TOO MUCH attention-at the neglect of other more rational bases.Again MY OPINION-tho at least they provide brain exercize-which is not a bad thing |
Wcv63 | Wednesday, October 18, 2000 - 05:34 pm  I don't know if this is syncronicity - I've always viewed it as the hand of God but it saved my daughter's life. When my daughter was 8 months old I brought her to the doctor to get checked because her fingernails were white and wouldn't pink up no matter how much a rubbed them. Why did I notice that? I don't know. But I figured maybe she needed a formula with iron. The doctor gave her a blood test and said they would call me in couple of days. I got a call that night at 10:30 to rush my daughter to the hospital she needed blood transfusions immediately. Turns out she had a very rare form of viral anemia called transient eurithmoblastopenia of childhood and required 4 blood transfusions. Doctors say they don't usually catch this till the child has already gone into convulsions from congestive heart failure. Additionally, she was born with an atrial septal defect and her cardiologist said it was too big to close up on its own. After bringing her to schedule her for surgery the hole had indeed closed up and no surgery was necessary. All these events took place within a few months of each other. Today my little girl is 8 and couldn't be healthier or happier. |
Elitist | Wednesday, October 18, 2000 - 09:07 pm  Ok, Ok, Ok. I am back after a nice hour long drive home, some good Chinese take-out, Drew Carey and Spin City, and both kids to bed. I like your stories. Like I said, I have them to. But lets be real. There are 6 BILLION people on this planet. What are the chances that one of them will have a plane crash dream that scares them enough they tell people about it. And then a plane crashes? I imagine thousands of people every night have a plane crash dream. Probably hundreds tell someone about them the next day. Lets see, a thousand divided by 6 billion is what percent of the population? Chances are we will have a plane crash sometime in the year. For that matter, we have 6 billion people dreaming every night. And each person has several dreams a night. Now how many dreams are that which have the possibility of a similar occurence happening in real life. Probably enough where people remember their dreams then have something happen and then tell somebody. And voila - dreams and synchronicity. Now if everybody every night had dreams that came true the next day - that would be a different matter. Or even if a statistically significant portion did (I would even go for, lets say 1% - that would mean 60 million people would wake up one day and say "Hey there is going to be a major plane crash today"). Now that would be impressive. |
Ocean_Islands | Thursday, October 19, 2000 - 05:18 am  What are you trying to convince me of, that synchronicity does not exist, or that dreams can't come true? |
Affinity | Thursday, October 19, 2000 - 05:25 am  Basically but believe whatever you wish |
Ocean_Islands | Thursday, October 19, 2000 - 05:43 am  The stuff about Lincoln/Kennedy is not made up, Gomer. |
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