Death Penalty Pros or Cons
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Death Penalty Pros or Cons
Arreal | Saturday, October 07, 2000 - 12:55 am  Roger come join us in here. This could get heated. |
Roger_Ramjet | Saturday, October 07, 2000 - 01:04 am  Hey, this sounds good!!!! I'm ready to have a good discussion/debate with you guys! I'm sure as shit not going to get to know you by asking what your favorite color is! |
Xenia | Saturday, October 07, 2000 - 01:14 am  Vykin: I know all about his stay. Can you believe he killed all those people in California, got into Canada, shot a security guard while being caught for shoplifting then spent 6 years in prison here in Canada? Then just when he was on the verge of being released into Canadian society (his sentence was almost up) THEN he was extradited back to the U.S! That man deserves to die. You had said "Seems to me there are family members far and few between, who feel "elated" cuz a murderer has been executed." Maybe they don't feel elated, but I would. I interviewed an author who wrote about Charles Ng who said "While C.N is still alive, no one is safe." I totally agree. Why should PROVEN murderers (In Ng's case he videotaped his murders) get to sit and enjoy prison life just because we want to be extra careful not to make a mistake? I say if a criminal is proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt, that criminal deserves to die. |
Roger_Ramjet | Saturday, October 07, 2000 - 01:19 am  Xenia, I agree with you. I wold like to say that I realize there are both advantages and disadvantages to either side. For me, though, there are certain crimes and situations where I feel it's warranted and just. Saying that, I know others who feel it's not our place to judge. I ask though, if it's not our place to judge our own, then who's place is it?? |
Zebulon | Saturday, October 07, 2000 - 06:39 am  Vykin, I don't think anyone would be throwing a party over it, but how would you know exactly if they are or are not relieved at the final result? Unless, of course, you've had firsthand experience with this situation. If you're going by TV interviews with victim's families, I doubt many are going to say how elated they truly are...especially if the murderer's family is caught in the middle of all this. That's all I really have to add. (How can I put this: Hmmm...I'm not going to be permanently attached to my keyboard today, so let's just say I'm out back doing yard maint. until sometime this afternoon.) |
Himay10ns | Saturday, October 07, 2000 - 11:56 am  I've studied Crime and Punishment and one of the big topics discussed was whether or not the death penalty was a true deterrent for criminals? Any thoughts?? Also, do you think criminals are victims of upbringing or environment?? Just throwing some fuel on the fire... |
Vykin | Saturday, October 07, 2000 - 12:39 pm  Zeb, it never brings the victim back to life. If there was a punishment for the criminal available that brought the victim back to their loved ones, it would be acceptable. It seems to me that "Thou Shalt Not Kill" always takes on connotations of its own. In my opinion "killing" is a man-made invention. Not all inventions are good inventions |
Moondance | Saturday, October 07, 2000 - 01:01 pm  Zeb... A response to your post... First the countries you mentioned on having a low crime rate ... true but woman have little if any rights to begin with in Saudi Arabia and Iran. Their measures IMO are extreme and I don't believe anything is good when it is done in a extreme way. Granted, I feel our system swings to the other side ... that is way it looks at as if I am swaying on this topic.... Yes, I guess I am but the pendulum needs to be in the middle not swinging side to side. We live in a reactionary, disposable society. As a society we find it easier to react, judge and condemn instead of taking a moment to contemplate, be open to alternative resolutions and resolve. Why not invest in the families and strengthen the homes. We can take more of the criminals we have incarcerated and put them to work. We can have our tax dollars go to reform and productivity. |
Roger_Ramjet | Saturday, October 07, 2000 - 01:06 pm  Vykin, good point about the victim. Killing is such an extreme act if not done in self defense. I'm not sure there will ever be a punishment that will fit such a crime. I don't believe the death penalty deters the crime (look at Texas). My belief in it certainly has controversy...I don't mind that. I think that the entire punishment system that exists has room for improvements. There are dangerous people out on the streets and some not so dangerous that are behind bars. If only the money that goes into what happens after the crime could go into ways to not have the crime happen to begin with... |
Arreal | Saturday, October 07, 2000 - 02:20 pm  From a logical stand point countries that use the death penalty tend to have higher crime rates, so it doesn't deter crime. Also, on a dollar to dollar basis, life in prison is cheaper than 20 years on death row. Tax payers foot the bill for not only food, medical and over crowding, but also, for appeals, lawyers and everything else associated with "trying to get off." Pardon me if I don't seem compassionate here, but how many of us have actually been families of a victim? How many of us know people who have had a loved one killed? I seriously doubt many of us do. So why do we want others to seek revenge? Is our desire to seek revenge upon the guilty our way to show compassion to the victims family? Is this a fear we each have deep seeded inside of us? Do we really want them dead so the sick son of a b*tch doesn't break out and come after us? I challenge you Zeb and Xenia to dig deeper into your own feelings to answer these questions. Then consider who should get the bigger penalty in this situation. A woman who has been brutally beaten by her husband and brutally butchers him after drugging him. A 19 year old person in a gang who accidently kills some one in a gang related fight. A sociopath who kills prostitutes and drug dealers because he believes he is doing God's work? A pedophile who randomly sodomizes boys and girls between the ages of 12 and 16. Who is the worst crimminal and who deserves the death penalty the most? |
Himay10ns | Saturday, October 07, 2000 - 02:57 pm  I could stay here and debate this topic all day with you guys, but I'm going to be short and sweet on this one. And this is how I truly feel about the death penalty. The Sixth Commandment: "Thou Shalt Not Kill" I won't take the judgement of criminals and killers into my own hands. That's for the Big Man Upstairs. Amen. |
Arreal | Saturday, October 07, 2000 - 03:04 pm  And 'Amen" to that May. I was waiting for a response to my last thots on the topic before I added in more of my beliefs. My views on the death penalty also have roots in my religious convictions. I wanted to get more feedback on my "logic" ideas before I brought up my moral values and beliefs. |
Xenia | Saturday, October 07, 2000 - 03:41 pm  The one huge gift "The Big Man Upstairs" gave us is FREE WILL. And I say, when someone comits a hanious crime they deserve the most hanious punishment and we as a society need to enforce that. Don't even get me started about the infamous Canadian killer Paul Bernardo (he was a rapist then him along with his stupid b-tch of a wife Karla killed two girls, one being Karla's sister). Just because we don't have the death penalty, Paul is sitting in prison and has been known to ORDER PIZZA. And Karla, as we now know is partying while in prison. All of htis while two young girls are dead. Don't have the death penalty to scare people into not committing crimes, have it for those who deserve the "eye for an eye" experience. Arreal said: "I challenge you Zeb and Xenia to dig deeper into your own feelings..." I have. If someone, for whatever reason, feels they have the justification to take the life of another human being, then we as a society have the right to decide the fate of their life. And finally... What makes me the most angry is that these hardcore criminals, the ones who deserve to die, are manipulating the judicial system to not only get whatever they want, but to make us ll look like idiots. How did Charles Ng delay his trial for six years when he was back in the U.S? He repeatedly fired his lawyers. That is total bullsh-t. If we start putting those deserving to death faster and not give them time to file a million appeals etc etc then maybe future killers might have a different perspective on their future. |
Xenia | Saturday, October 07, 2000 - 03:42 pm  Sh-t. I posted this before I proofread and checked this for spelling. Oh well, you guys get the idea.... |
Arreal | Saturday, October 07, 2000 - 04:06 pm  Could you please let me know which of the crimes I listed in my post are the most horrid criminals and which deserve the death penalty? |
Xenia | Saturday, October 07, 2000 - 04:27 pm  Arreal: Sure. A woman who has been brutally beaten by her husband and brutally butchers him after drugging him. --This is a hard one. Of course, I would want to say she was justified. I'm not familiar with legal details, but wouldn't this be considered manslaughter because of circumstances leading up to the death would have lead her to believe her own life was in danger? This is far different than a murderer who randomly chooses people to kill. This would deserve a life sentence but not death. A 19 year old person in a gang who accidently kills some one in a gang related fight. --A gang member "accidently" killing? It may have technically been an accident, but come on, don't gang members openly express their belief that they will kill if they had to? This deserves death. A sociopath who kills prostitutes and drug dealers because he believes he is doing God's work? --This deserves death. A pedophile who randomly sodomizes boys and girls between the ages of 12 and 16. --This is a horrid crime, but does not deserve death. Castration yes, death no. Who is the worst crimminal and who deserves the death penalty the most? Criminals who deserve death are those who, for whatever reason, believe they have the right to take the life of another human being and do so for the feelings of power and control they get from killing. |
Vykin | Saturday, October 07, 2000 - 04:31 pm  Xenia you said: The one huge gift "The Big Man Upstairs" gave us is FREE WILL. And I say, when someone comits a hanious crime they deserve the most hanious punishment and we as a society need to enforce that." Actually my friend you may have misunderstood "The Big Man Upstairs", When he said that he actually meant: "Free Willie", This just goes to show how society can misinterpet the "Big Man Upstairs". With regard to Karla Homolka, yes this is most certainly another "hit in the stomach" the families of the two girls murdered. Let alone Karla's own sister being murdered. I think the Law Enforcement folks should have thought this one through a little more carefully. |
Arreal | Saturday, October 07, 2000 - 04:51 pm  Two that should not be executed due to mental illness would be the wife who killed her husband and the sociopath. His belief that he is doing the will of God is not normal, healthy functioning. Get him on a real Med. Management program and perhaps his psychosis could be helped. If his brain chemicals are faulty, by no choice of his own...does he still deserve to die? Pedophiles get the feeling of power and control over their victims also. One crime kills the spirit and one kills the body. From my religious views, I say none of the crimes above are worse than any other. That includes lying, stealing, killing. It is man and man alone who places value on things. WE rate crimes as minor or hanious. To God it's all the same. Murder is just as bad as taking the Lord's vein in vain, which is just as bad as feelings of envy. Christ stopped a woman from being stoned to death by the public, saying we who is without sin, cast the first stop. Our criminal justice system takes God's right to take life and makes a mockery out of it. Man rates crime (sin) and assigns punishment as he sees fit. God sees all crime as sin and does not rate it. He tells us not to kill. Just my 2 cents. |
Talisker | Saturday, October 07, 2000 - 07:00 pm  Pro or con? I am for the death penalty. There are some crimes that are so heinous that there is no alternative punishment. I do feel that there needs to be no question of guilt though. As to what would constitute this ultimate punishment, I would say motivation. To me, the motivation is the taking of another person’s life for fun, or sport or just for the pleasure of it is reason enough for this penalty. This brings to mind a recent case that I know of: Two young men in their very early 20’s drove around for a few hours looking for a random victim. They found a beautiful young girl who had a life, a family and friends who loved her, and was a week away from college graduation. These animals kidnapped her, drove her to a different location and raped her, beat her, and stabbed her until she died. Their purpose: The younger of the two had never been laid. They had planned this crime for quite a while. In this case, the two men confessed to the crime. There was no doubt of their guilt. There has to be a point at which we as a society say enough is enough and that a crime has gone too far. There needs to be a punishment that fits the crime. |
Xenia | Saturday, October 07, 2000 - 07:03 pm  Thank you Tali! I completely agree. |
Zebulon | Saturday, October 07, 2000 - 08:25 pm  It's great to see different points of view, especially from the women because that is simply just an insight I do not have. However, I cannot dig any deeper on this subject because I firmly believe everything I have stated and have tried to do it in detail. This is clear cut for me when dealing with individuals who maliciously and purposefully take another human being's life. I'm trying to picture a place where death row criminals are perpetually placed to serve life sentences until the end of time. As more of these people are placed in a holding facility, more of the taxpayers money is required for upkeep and hiring of guards. Places like this would either get too big or too numerous and then you have the makings for imminent disaster when it gets out of control for those in charge. Work programs are great and help them pass the time, but I honestly don't see these convicted death row criminals building our streets, roads, and buildings...unless they are adding on to their perpetually growing community. <shudder> |
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