Archive through November 01, 2000
The ClubHouse: The Game - Discussion Room: General :
Vykin Exposed:
Archive through November 01, 2000
Adven39 | Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 09:48 pm  Although I have no connection to anyone playing in the Game, I do receive e-mail from a variety of posters and lurkers. One such individual has sent me an e-mail that is disturbing and, I believe, true. This individual asked me not to disclose this information and, for doing so, I apologize. This individual alleges that Vykin and a number of supporters, mainly friends, family and acquaintances from other internet chat rooms, conspired to win the Game. They did this by having people on the outside, primarily, Norequerdo, a friend of Vykin's, provide information and by flooding the vote with support for Vykin. In addition, Vykin is female, not male. Also, Gail, primarily because of animosity toward Kearie, was involved in this conspiracy, as well. I have reasons for believing this to be true that I can't disclose. I will not discuss this again on the board and will not answer any e-mails regarding this other than any that might come from Neil. I debated for some time whether to keep this information to myself. I decided to post it in fairness to those who played the Game legitimately and to those on the outside who took the Game at face value. I believe a trust has been betrayed here larger than the one I owed the individual who provided this information. I will repeat, in light of the recent tendency to speculate and mole hunt, that I have no connection to anyone in the Game and came across this information purely as a bystander. I would also add that, in light of my relationship with Annagator, she knows nothing about this and is not involved in any way. Optics, Norequerdo and Gail are free to rebut these allegations, but I would warn them that I do know more. |
Optics | Tuesday, October 31, 2000 - 11:43 pm  your post does not warrant a response. I take offence at your attack on my internet friends and family. The Game is over! If I have made a mistake, its sharing with all honesty and self-respect myself with people such as you, who had a months worth of pleasure in attacking my integrity unjustly and unfairly. It is situations such as this that further underline my previous statements of maintaining my privacy. That is the only mistake I have made Advent39, is taking a risk and sharing some of myself only to find the lynchmob continues. If you want the CDBurner I can gladly forward it to you and you can place it where the sun don't shine. |
Digilady | Wednesday, November 01, 2000 - 12:07 am  Hey Optics! All else aside, are ya really a female? =That= would be a p1sser! |
Ocean_Islands | Wednesday, November 01, 2000 - 03:25 am  Adven why would you bring this up now? There is some reason for this that you are not saying. Of course now it doesn't make any difference. I think your message is very peculiar. I also think Vyk's response is very peculiar. O well, life goes on. Please email me all information. When my final report on The Game is completed, I'd prefer it have the best info. |
Affinity | Wednesday, November 01, 2000 - 03:52 am  Adven, not to criticize you but you said you recieved this email from a lurker? Do you honestly believe everything you read in email? If it's right then my apologies, but did you ever hear of innocent until proven guilty? Optics, if any of this stuff is true, do tell us. I have faith that you didn't do what everyone says you did, but if you are lying about it then that's even worse. |
Nadi | Wednesday, November 01, 2000 - 04:02 am  Why do people pull crap like this? If you know something and can prove it, tell everything you know and provide the proof. If you aren't willing to provide proof then keep your mouth shut. If you are going to make allegations such as this and then say you won't discuss it further or answer emails about it then you have no business making the allegations in the first place. |
Vasix | Wednesday, November 01, 2000 - 04:32 am  VIVA Vykin and EQUAL OPPORTUNITY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! OceanIsland the Historian: I can't wait to read your summary of the game. |
Norequerdo | Wednesday, November 01, 2000 - 04:33 am  YOU PEOPLE NEVER GIVE UP!!!!!!! THIS WILL BE MY LAST POST. I WILL RESPOND TO ALL THE ALLEGATIONS MADE ABOUT ME: 1. I AM AN ONLINE FRIEND OF VYKINS AND HAVE BEEN FOR SEVEN YEARS. 2. YES, I AND A GROUP OF CTV'ERS REGISTERED TO SUPPORT VYKIN WHEN WE WERE TOLD ABOUT THE GAME. MY MOTHER EVEN REGISTERED. THE STORIES IN THE BOARD ABOUT THE ONLINE FRIEND'S MOTHER TRYING TO FIND COURT TV THAT WAS MY MOTHER. SO MY MOTHER KNOWS VYKIN TOO. A CONSPIRATOR SHE IS NOT. 3. YES WE ALL VOTED TO KEEP VYKIN IN THE GAME. NONE OF YOU OF COURSE HAVE VOTED TO KEEP VYKIN OUT? GIVE ME A BREAK. BELIEVE ME I ALSO HAVE A LOT OF INFORMATION INCLUDING CHAT LOGS ABOUT A GROUP OF POSTERS WHO WERE SAYING THAT THEY WERE GOING TO "KILL VYKIN". SO YOU CONSPIRED WITH YOUR VOTES TO GET VYKIN KICKED OUT??? SO WHAT DOES ALL THIS MEAN THAT VYKIN HAS A LOT OF FRIENNDS? MAYBE THAT IS THE PROBLEM HERE, VYKIN HAS SOME REAL FRIENDS WHILE OTHER PEOPLE'S FRIENDS ONLY EXIST IN THEIR MIND. I HAVE ENJOYED THE GAME AND THE POSTS BUT SOME OF YOU ARE SICK PUPPIES AND NEED TO GET A LIFE. MY ADVICE TO VYKIN IS TO SHOVE THE CD BURNER UP ARRREAL'S ASS AND WALK AWAY INTO THE SUNSET. |
Adven39 | Wednesday, November 01, 2000 - 04:48 am  Changed my mind about not posting on this: Aff - There are reasons why I believe the writer that I can't disclose. I will say that I only included a portion of what was told to me. I am aware of the potential damage to the reputation of Optics/Nor/Gail, and to mine, and did not post the above hastily. I considered the possibility that a hoax was being played on me and was able to determine this was extremely unlikely, if not impossible. Ocean - why now? I just found out in the last 24 hours and was as baffled by it as anyone. The information came out of the blue. I have no agenda in this other than to find out if these allegations are true. If I had the writer's permission, I would post the e-mail (now e-mails) on the board. I do not have it and am unlikely to get it. |
Nadi | Wednesday, November 01, 2000 - 04:55 am  Adven39, you posted... "I have no agenda in this other than to find out if these allegations are true. " Shouldn't you have found out if they were true before you posted them? |
Vasix | Wednesday, November 01, 2000 - 05:01 am  Adven Howabout we go back to the days where email sent to one person stays with that person and we only speak of our first hand knowledge. And two words of advice for you: let go. You promised not to post to this and you are getting sucked into to defending yourself and it will just get all twisted around the axles anyways. Don't let your note become something that people pick apart and say things about you or your motives. . Take care and keep posting on the other boards, I'll be looking for them. Peace, out. |
Twiggyish | Wednesday, November 01, 2000 - 05:44 am  I think Adven raised some interesting points. Nor, "simma down" girl. geeez. If you have something to say, don't shout. Here is what I see, Optics may not have known about this campaign. Yes, I do believe there was a campaign for Vykin to win. It would have been nice to know "friends" were involved in the chats and discussions here. It is possible there would have been a temptation (from the friends)to "share" information with Vykin from these boards. I am not saying this happened. Just an opinion. |
Vasix | Wednesday, November 01, 2000 - 06:22 am  My addition to your statement is that it was a possible temptation for ALL of the players, and it was a proven fact that it occured for one player and a strong suspicion it occured with others. And in the end, I think the sequestering from friends info doesn't help the players. And the players can't change who they are by what the boards are saying. Arreal said she didn't even REMEMBER the note or what it said I doubt any poster could could changed the way a player thought or acted in the game. Arreal was Arreal and what went on out here wasn't something she was concerned about, she was playing her heart out in the game. We need to pick players that at least promise they will not read the boards or have boards read to them. Our ten players here didn't do board surfing and that was good and I believe them when they said that. Did they hear from friends? Probably? Did that help them? Doubt it. As a matter of fact it hurt Arreal becuase then she started questioning her ability to fairly play the game. Which was sad. Arreal should have stayed in. She had a lot to contribute and the players were genuinely surprised and upset she left. IMHO The impact of outside contact issue is overblown and our game will get better as we refine the rules. And ALL the players had friends (old and newly found) posting for them and voting for them and darn proud to do it. And was there block (or friends comparing their votes) voting? Why of course, people even started threads on "Who you voting for" and stuff like that. That's part of the game. Celebrate that part. Was there mulivoting: No. Once it went to email, it was just one person one vote. Sorry for the ramblings. |
Adven39 | Wednesday, November 01, 2000 - 07:10 am  Vas - I've got Nadi suggesting it is unfair to make an allegation and then clam up and you suggesting I just let it go. I was aware when I posted the above that my motives, objectivity and judgment might be questioned. It's exactly what I would do if our positions were reversed. I was also aware that I was breaking a confidence and putting Optics, Nor and Gail in a "when did you stop beating your wife" position. I was also aware, however, that the Game was originally intended to be a fun distraction for us while awaiting BB2. In most instances, that's what it was. In order for the game to work, it required that the players adhere to the honor system, the spirit of the Game and the rules. There is evidence that Vykin (and possibly others, no one e-mailed me about them) and those close to him/her were playing a game within a game and did not choose to adhere to those standards. This is their choice. Personally, I don't believe a Rockfordian campaign to flood the vote with friends and family is fair to the other nine participants who put in a great deal of effort to win on their own merits. I do agree that having some outside contact is not a major issue. It was, however, one of the rules. If a player chooses to ignore this rule because it doesn't suit him/her, then I believe it says something about that person and their willingness to play the Game as it was intended. The Game has been rife with speculation, paranoia and evidence of manipulation behind the scenes. Since this Game was intended for our entertainment, if it was subverted, I don't think it is unethical to ask that it be brought out into the open for us all to discuss. Optics and Norequerdo have been provided a forum to discuss the allegations and, so far, the former has suggested I shove the CD burner up my ass, while the latter has suggested Kearie shove it up hers. One thing is clear: we need another CD burner. |
Vasix | Wednesday, November 01, 2000 - 07:23 am  Adven: ROFL. I love how you usually managed to end you posts with a grin. I'm not up for the witch hunt. I think the game was everyting everyone wanted and more. I choose, in my happy little dysfunctional way, to see what I wanna see and I wanna see all the good things. Call it denial, call it whatever. And I see you can be one funny fella. Peace brother. Stay on your journey, seek your true path. Me, I'm gonna sit on this rock and wait for Laftatme or OI or Nor or Tukuul or Guru or Kar or Spamgirl or one of the Chatwenches (they prefer the B word) to wander by and bust me up laughing. |
Norwican | Wednesday, November 01, 2000 - 07:34 am  I was and still am a Vykin supporter. I had never heard of Vykin or Optics prior to the Game. I supported Vykin because I liked his/her humor, intelligence and basically "style". I do not care if Vykin is a male or female. I cannot speak about anyone else that you mentioned... I do not know them personally but have enjoyed their posts along the way and was glad to see that Vykin had their support. I guess the Vykin bashing continues  |
Sandyc | Wednesday, November 01, 2000 - 08:02 am  As one tvch addict I thank you for continuing the game. Or is this game two? |
Adven39 | Wednesday, November 01, 2000 - 08:17 am  Well, this isn't so bad. I thought I was going to get crucified. |
Sbw | Wednesday, November 01, 2000 - 08:29 am  Crucified - that comes after we find out you made this up or you don't share more information. "Ve haf vays of makink u tok" |
Spamgirl | Wednesday, November 01, 2000 - 08:35 am  Adven - I think you're pretty brave throwing yourself out here... and what you say is nothing surprising to me... Keep it up, adven... seek the truth! |
Karuuna | Wednesday, November 01, 2000 - 08:35 am  Well wait, Adven...we're not done yet! Let me just sit down and be honest with you here, because I see some contradictions in what you said you wanted and what you've done, and I'm troubled by them. I've always seen you (in the limited way one can "see" someone on message boards) as an extremely intelligent and reasonable person, so I have to admit your post is troubling to me, since it seems to me to be out of character with the way I see you. The information you have provided, as far as I can tell, is not firsthand, its secondhand. Since you won't disclose your source, or how you know it to be true, to me it amounts to gossip. And I've never found gossip to be helpful in any situation. If we were in a US court of law, this would be dimissed as heresay, and not allowed. Further, I'm not sure what great trust has been betrayed that you think justifies betraying the trust of the person who sent it to you, especially if they asked you to keep it confidential. The rules of this game have always been fuzzy to me, and full of assumptions. Were people playing as their true selves, or did they make up characters? Were they getting outside info or not and how do you police that anyway? And I certainly don't see how inviting your friends in to watch and support and vote for you was stated anywhere as against the rules. It seems to me that folks assumed a great deal of things about the structure of this game, and there is a great deal of dismay that their assumptions weren't correct. But I've never been good in the realm of assumptions. Like Joe Friday used to say, "just the facts, ma'am..., all we want are the facts." Finally, you did say you wanted all this out in the open for all of us to discuss, but then you say you refuse to be open about the information necessary for us to verify your statements. I have to admit, while I trust that your intentions are good, I'm having a hard time reconciling just how we could possibly have an open discussion without full openness... At any rate, I hope you take this in the spirit it was intended, as a comment on my own struggle with your post, and just how seriously I should take it. I simply don't know you well enough to just take you at your word, and without some verification, I personally am failing to be able to use this information in any kind of constructive way. |
Azriel1104 | Wednesday, November 01, 2000 - 08:46 am  Well, since that's the last post from Nor ~roll my eyes~ yeah right, I can't ask her what I would love to know, so I'll throw it out in the air. I wonder why Nor felt the need to lie to everyone when she first came here. Why didn't she tell us all that she was a friend of Vykin's and he asked her to come watch the game? If I had been chosen to go in the game, I would have told people that I know and I know a few of them would have joined in just out of curiousity to see me play. I can assure you that none of them would have lied and said they didn't know any of the players. The fact that she would lie about knowing him really makes me question everything else that has happened in The Game. Nor, was the first to point a finger at Roger, saying that he profited most from the vote being tampered with. When I look at it now, I see that Vykin profited most because in the original vote he was barely left in the game, but his votes were high enough that it seemed like someone was pushing his, too, hence he couldn't be the one cheating. Everyone of the BGs votes were unusually high except Roger's and that makes me think now that someone might have been trying to lay the blame at Roger's door. I'm going back to the grumpy room. This is all too crazy. |
Norequerdo | Wednesday, November 01, 2000 - 08:58 am  I meant what I said about not posting anymore but I was pretty angry when I got up this morning and read the thread. I would only like to appologize to Arreal for the crude comment I made. I should not have said what I said and assumed that Arreal is behind this. For that I apologize. |
Wcv63 | Wednesday, November 01, 2000 - 09:07 am  Vasix, first and foremost I must tell you that I am shrugging off my robes of peace as I read new messages from the bottom up and totally missed this thread when I made the peace bond. I will don them again once I have had my say. I don't know anyone on this board better than anyone else. I came onto the board as a relative newcomer and all my impressions have been made as the Game progressed. I have no preconceived opinions nor do I have prior relationships to distract me from objectivity. That being said I will share with you my OPINIONS in regard to events relating to the Game. If you do not like or agree with my opinions cie la vie. I have found some Vykin supporters (not all- SOME) to be overly aggressive and rabidly hostile against other players/supporters in the game. If you did not/do not agree with their views/statements you were verbally abused and called names. More than once I made this observation. The continued campaign of virtual bullying and aggression suggests that not only did Vykin and his/her friends want to win they wanted to vanquish all detractors. The antagonism and hostility has created a dissension in the ranks effectively dividing the board into factions. And I must inform you I have no extraneous electronic equipment available to me to "stick where the sun doesn't shine" therefore some other type of punishment for my insolence will be required. |
Sbw | Wednesday, November 01, 2000 - 10:03 am  Adven: I am surprised that you would post such a vague piece of information on the board without any substantiated fact. You indicated that you hoped those involved would "rebut the allegations". My questions to you - If the allegations are true, do you really think those involved are going to suddenly get a conscious and admit their wrongdoing? Are you just trying to get all posters to verbalize what they have been hinting at all along? Nor: I think the point was that only the Vykin supporters felt it necessary to come to the board and lie about their allegiances. That said...was that unfair, I don't think so. But, you have to admit you made a BIG point out of the fact that you were new and knew nothing about any of the players. If you can't remember that, I can point you to a few posts on the board that brought that fact to your attention. Nor, as far as all that you "overheard" in the chat rooms - Why did you repeatedly find it necessary to listen in on chats? Were you there to "report" the content of those chats and what did you expect to gain from it? Obviously by the majority of your posts on the message board you were not there in the same spirit as other chatters, which was to discuss their feelings about The Game and who they wanted out and who they wanted to keep in for entertainment. Hmmmmmm.....I still wonder if Game 2 has started and we (AKA the participants/contestants) still don't know that the contest has begun. Who shall we nominate to banish first? Or, is someone writing a book about online paranoia, if so you should have a great start. Can we preview the first couple of chapters? |
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