Archive through October 08, 2000

The ClubHouse: The Game - Play Room: General Discussions: Discussion - Archives: Homosexuality & Issues: Pros/Cons?: Archive through October 08, 2000

Moondance

Saturday, October 07, 2000 - 11:59 pm Click here to edit this post
Arreal ... I do want to commend your courage to talk about it ... it not only helps to but it could help someone else in a similar situation and encourage them to open up and talk about it.


Hate is an uneducated view at it's worst!

Moondance

Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 12:00 am Click here to edit this post
Surprise me Vy

Luke

Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 12:06 am Click here to edit this post
Well here's another twist to this topic. I got the latest copy of the Advocate (gay and lesbian news magazine) and there was a blurb in it about the "ex-gay" guy who's well known for being "cured" of his homosexuality by this ministry he belongs to... and the blurb said that they found him in a gay bar in DC--apparently one of the oldest and most widely known gay bars in town... Guess that doesn't give much added credibility to causes that say homosexuality is a "disease" and needs to be "cured."

Luke

Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 12:08 am Click here to edit this post
--oh... thanks, you're the best Vykin!

Xenia

Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 12:13 am Click here to edit this post
<just got up to go to the bathroom and came in here>

I want to clarify that I had said "from my experiences" gay men dislike hetro women. There were two gay men I once knew who DISPISED hetro women and dismissed them because they believed they had no use in their lives for them.

Since that experience, I've been reluctant to really get to know any other gay males.

I was once told this:

What are the two sexes a gay male believe exist?

Answer: Men and young boys.

It may have been a harsh thing to say, but, again from my experience, it seems like gay men are interested in potential sexual partners and not anything else based solely on mutual respect or love.

And yeah, I know, I did get to know the wrong people. :)

But now that I think about it, many people are cruelly selective. There are hetro guys who dismiss women who they don't think are pretty enough. And there are women who dismiss men if they don't think they are a good "catch".

Arreal

Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 12:22 am Click here to edit this post
Luke, I guess my story about Eddie doesn't give much credit to the idea that biology makes a persons sexuality either.

{{{Luke}}} I am really sorry about the bad week end you had. I hope the days ahead get better for you.

Luke

Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 12:30 am Click here to edit this post
Hey Xenia... guess I'm still getting caught up in meeting everyone... Just started really posting kinda late today...

I hear ya... I know guys who are like the ones you describe, and who think exactly the same way, it's pretty pathetic. But I know I gotta be careful about what i say about gays, because although I am a gay man, I don't feel capable of speaking for the entire gay male community. After years of meeting so many different gay men who didn't fit into the mold I had constructed, or who didn't follow patterns I had thought were indicative of gay men, I decided to stop categorizing and just appreciate the diversity (regardless of whether I understood it or not). That goes for cultures, religions, a lot of other stuff too...

Vykin

Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 12:31 am Click here to edit this post
Moon, sorry I took so long with the drinks, I got sidetracked by the shooting stars outside.
Got you 1 Molson Canadian, 1 Heineken, Thats the last of the beer.

Luke

Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 12:38 am Click here to edit this post
AAhhh! can't stand this... I wanna stay up all night with you guys! but my eyelids are shutting... and i'm getting... sleep... sleep...
(Get out your earplugs, everyone!)

Vykin

Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 12:38 am Click here to edit this post
Xenia when you said, "There are hetro guys who dismiss women who they don't think are pretty enough. And there are women who dismiss men if they don't think they are a good "catch"."

My sentiments exactly! They can spend alot of time making judgements, but don't have the time to really get to know the person.

Moondance

Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 12:57 am Click here to edit this post
So I want to get to know you Vy ... :)
Thanks for the beer ... that went fast!

I will see ya in the morning ... gotta get some sleep ...
maybe you will sleep out on the couches with me in the living room ... we could make a tent!

Roger_Ramjet

Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 03:41 am Click here to edit this post
Xenia--excellent post about things! I too cannot figure out guys who hate the idea of two guys together, yet get so hot over two women together. There are a few guys like this that I work with. I've asked them why they find one a turn on and the other a big turn-off.

The only answer they ever give is "it's just different. I'm hetro myself, and don't get turned on by either pairing.

I'm not sure why there is so much concern over a person's sexual preference. <perplexed look on face> I juts don't get it. To me it shouldn't have an impact on anything.

People are just so strange sometimes!! Well, at least to me. Of course I'm one to talk--lots for folks think I'm weird too. They don't treat me badly for it though. I've heard all sorts of reasons why it hapens--they all boil down, IMHO, to showing what the bad side of what people can become toward each other. I find it sad.

Luke--so sorry about your situation! I'm glad you were able to check in! Take care, and if you want to talk, I will be happy to listen.

Arreal, that is really something you went through! Wow, I don't know what to say. IMHO, it seems that you were very supportive. I commend you for the way that played out, as many would have been much less "available" once finding something out something like that. You really showed what love is really about.

Zebulon

Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 09:00 am Click here to edit this post
This is a subject that will be brief for me simply for the fact that I don't do in-depth investigations in the religious and socio-phychological aspects of homosexuality. My take is that everyone has the right to be who they are...men and women. As long as they also respect who I am then I have no conflict on the issue. I've actually had a few guys come up to me at 3 or 4 different occassions in my lifetime and talk to me and then ask me out. I just tell them that I'm flattered and appreciate the thought and let them know I am straight. I apologize if I gave the wrong impression and let them know that I certainly didn't mean to hurt their feelings. I definitely do not bash. There's an old saying, "Make love, not war." I'd rather see two girls or two guys together and be in love than see all these people currently killing each other in the Middle East. That may sound simplistic, but like I said, that's as deep as I get on this issue. Sorry if that's not enough for people.

Himay10ns

Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 09:40 am Click here to edit this post
Zeb...pretty impressed with your answer. And I agree with the things you've said. There is one particular part of homosexuality that I do not understand and cannot relate to. I cannot imagine being physically attracted to another woman. I absolutely love and adore men and I believe that that is the way God intended it to be. There was a lot of talk about Curtis being gay and I believe that the reason he ISN'T is because he is a Christian. Paul talks about how God dealt with unbelievers in his letter to the Romans, (Chapter 1, Verses 26-27), "For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error." So again, in keeping with my theme of pro choice...homosexuality is not a lifestyle that I would choose for myself. BUT, and hear this loud and clear, I DO NOT judge my fellow man, that isn't my place. I love and accept people equally and I would never bash or hate someone because of their sexual preference. And hear this loud and clear as well, this is not to say the homosexuals are unbelievers. I'm quite sure that there are many gay men and women that believe in a wonderful loving and accepting God and I believe that God will take ALL things in to account on judgement day. I work side by side with several openly gay individuals. But when I look at them, I don't see "GAY", I see attractive, funny, hard-working, loving people and I enjoy my friendships with them. {{{{Luke}}}} for being real!

Moondance

Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 11:42 am Click here to edit this post
But May you just got through saying you did not think Curtis was gay because he was Christian then turned around and said you didn't think Homosexuals were not not beleivers ... I am confused... I am not attacking... just wondering...thanks!

Himay10ns

Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 11:51 am Click here to edit this post
Moon, the double negative in your question confuses me but let me see if I can straighten this out for you. The two statements really aren't related. One was my opinion of Curtis specifically. The second was just my feeling that there are homosexuals that are believers. I was trying to say that I don't judge people and I don't dare try and decide who goes to heaven and who doesn't. I didn't want it to come across as my saying "homosexuals are doomed to hell". I don't claim to know that information. Hope this helps...

Moondance

Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 12:09 pm Click here to edit this post
Sorry didn't help! :)

This is what you wrote
>There was a lot of talk about Curtis being gay and I believe that the reason he ISN'T is because he is a Christian.<

So you are saying if you are Christain that you would not be gay???


Thanks!

Himay10ns

Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 12:12 pm Click here to edit this post
NO, I was not speaking in general terms there. What I said about Curtis does not apply to every gay person. I was simply giving you my opinion of Curtis, specifically.

Arreal

Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 12:15 pm Click here to edit this post
Bringing religion into this issue. I have an opinion.

God said that he would not give anybody more to endure than what they can handle. (This being an individual thing for each person) This, to me, say we will all be given obstacles to overcome, which we are capable of doing. I believe for some this may be illness such as diabetes, mental health, homosexuality (whether by illness or choice). It may not be medical at all. It might be death of loved ones, loss of material things.

My point is, according to God we all have things to deal with that we can over come if we work with Him. The diabetic can watch his food and take there meds. The cancer victim can blame God and be bitter or he can live his days to the fullest thanking God for the Dr.s that healed him.
The homosexual can choose to live celibate or fight the urge. The mentally ill person can take their meds and get counseling, or not and be angry bitter. People who lost loved ones to murder or death, can move forward, thanking God for the time they did have or they can fill their hearts with hate and revenge.

Everything in life gives us choices...some choices will glorify God and others will not. This is FREE-WILL that God gave us.

God loves homosexuals, cancer victims, murder victims and murderers all the same.

Beloved, let us love one another
For love is of God and everyone who loveth
is born of God and knoweth God.
he that loveth not
knoweth not God for God IS love!!!

Sorry not trying to preach, just giving my opinion as I see them. I see individual hardships for all and individual choices for all.
Each person has a responsibily to make wise choice and to love others regardless of their choices.

Stepping down from my soap box.

Moondance

Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 12:24 pm Click here to edit this post
Thanks May... I just wanted to be clear on what you were saying ... if you go back and read your first paragraph, I think you can understand the confusion.

It sounded as if HE couldn't be gay because HE was a Christian so I just thought....

If anyone who was gay would not be a Christian.

Himay10ns

Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 12:24 pm Click here to edit this post
Well said Arreal! <clap, clap, clap, clap>

Xenia

Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 12:35 pm Click here to edit this post
Zeb wrote: "This is a subject that will be brief for me simply for the fact that I don't do in-depth investigations in the religious and socio-phychological aspects of homosexuality."

Excuse me for being crass, but I have to wonder; is the reason you don't DO in-depth investigations is because it's easier to ignore these issues rather than explore them to better understand and have compassion for the gay community?

I admire that you handle yourself with maturity when dealing with gay men who come on to you, but I am suspect of your true beliefs. It almost seems like you want to ignore the issue so that it will never be an issue for you.

Himay: I know we barely know each other, but I have to be honest and say I have lost total respect for you because of your post above.

It's cool that you live your life based on Christian values. At least you believe in something. So many people believe in nothing. And I hope your God is a loving God.

But there is NOTHING that PISSES ME OFF more than someone quoting the Bible to state their case against homosexuality.

You say you don't judge people, but of course you are!!! What you are essentially saying is that because gay people aren't following the word of the Bible then they are not living up to righteousness of God.

Christianity has always been good at keeping sheep in line. It also has created a major population of hypocrites.

F-ck this. I could go on forever about how the whole f-cking Christianity crap causes more harm than good and creates more prejudice than understanding and acceptance, but I'll just stop because I am really angry right now.

Himay10ns

Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 12:50 pm Click here to edit this post
Xenia, I didn't post my answer to be respected...and if you are going to trash me over one statement that I've made, then I myself think you are pretty shallow. I wasn't using the scripture to "state my case against homosexuality" I was merely using the scripture to explain that God sees sex with the same gender as unnatural.

And don't put words in my mouth. I DID NOT say
"that because gay people aren't following the word of the Bible then they are not living up to righteousness of God." Those were your words.

All I'm saying is that the God that I worship sees homosexuality as unnatural and therefore I do not believe it is a suitable lifestyle for myself. Which is somewhat a mute point, because I have never been attracted to another woman.

I don't claim to be perfect, and you can call me a hypocrit all day long, but God isn't finished with me yet. I sin everyday of my life, but at least I have a goal. And that is to one day sit at the right hand of God.

Moondance

Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 01:02 pm Click here to edit this post
May ...
It puts a spin on it and confuses the situation... In one part condemning homosexuality because of religious beliefs and then ending the post stating non judgmental ways. It doesn't pan out.

The bible is left up to one's interpretation ... so using scripture is not saying you are using God's words ... you are using your interpretation of God's words.

Himay10ns

Sunday, October 08, 2000 - 01:12 pm Click here to edit this post
Here is the bottom line. I'm straight. I don't condemn homosexuals. And I don't bash the other BGs for having an opinion.