Frank and Margarita

The ClubHouse: Archives: Frank and Margarita
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Archive through November 29, 2001 25   12/02 12:46pm

Judy

Friday, November 30, 2001 - 01:11 am Click here to edit this post
Car54-
On the CBS site it says that Frank(30) is a Corporate Trainer
And Marg(28) is in Education Technology Sales.

Spygirl

Friday, November 30, 2001 - 07:23 am Click here to edit this post
Hippy, I don't think Frank is abusive based on calling Margarita a moron.

Throughout the entire race (with the exception of a couple of episodes where they didn't get much air time b/c they did so well), he has yelled at her in a way that even bothered the lawyers (see the eating contest), he has called her various names, spoken harshly and almost hatefully (IMO), told her not to act (or do something) like a girl (condescendingly), AND PHYSICALLY shoved her. ALL of this while on camera -- can you imagine what it is like at home behind closed doors?

That is what I'm basing my opinion on.

And just remember, the only thing that other people have to gauge what kind of person you (generic "you") are is by how you behave and speak. If Frank is not abusive in some way, then he needs to re-evaluate the way that he acts and talks, because he is certainly consistent with someone who is physically and/or verbally abusive.

And he cannot be legitimately upset (i.e. he can be upset, but not with any justification) that others like me wonder that he is abusive, because he has a number of behaviors that suggest he is. And I say, if you don't like the way others are viewing you, then change your behavior to match the kind of peson you really are. Others have no way of knowing your heart and intentions. If you are a good person who loves your mate, then make your behavior and words match that.

JMO

Tntitanfan

Friday, November 30, 2001 - 09:52 am Click here to edit this post
On the Ping-Pong thread it states that Drew said on Rosie that prior to the game "Frank tried to crush the kid's hand for intimidation." Who says he doesn't have a abusive personality!

Quietstorm4

Friday, November 30, 2001 - 02:10 pm Click here to edit this post
I saw the Rosie show and IMO Drew said that jokingly just like he and Kevin rib each other about everything. Do you honestly think that Frank tried to crush that kid's hand? I don't.

I have a friend who is married to a "Frank" and I don't like the verbal abuse (which is what I think Frank does), but my friend is the one who constantly puts up with the behavior, just as Margarita does. She says when he's like that she just ignores him. I couldn't do it, but that's me. Frank and Margarita have been together for quite some time, and I'm sure (almost positive) that if she felt this was a dangerous situation to be in she would get out of it (she's too smart not to).

Puttergirl

Saturday, December 01, 2001 - 04:36 pm Click here to edit this post
I loved the Frat brothers; I was really rooting for them. But now that they are gone, I am rooting for Frank and Margarete. I would hate it if Team Guido won!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jaded

Saturday, December 01, 2001 - 05:11 pm Click here to edit this post
Judy said "On the CBS site it says that Frank(30) is a Corporate Trainer
And Marg(28) is in Education Technology Sales."

Given that, I can't really warm to them, when in the first episode she said "This is our ticket out of the ghetto". I don't think they were on food stamps and in public housing, so why the comment? To gain sympathy~that's way!!!

I really wouldn't care if they won, but I wanted to point out that fact. They shouldn't respresent themselves as destitute when they are not.

Car54

Saturday, December 01, 2001 - 05:43 pm Click here to edit this post
Jaded, that is exactly what I was wondering.

I also wonder how successful a trainer Frank is if he yells at everyone if they don't do it his way!

Kep421

Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 08:13 am Click here to edit this post
Maybe its Frank's lack of success at being a corporate trainer that is keeping them in (what they percieve as) the ghetto!!!

Poverty, like wealth, is relative....

One person's ghetto is another's middle class.

Trinity

Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 10:58 am Click here to edit this post
Depends on what they mean by "ghetto." Kep is right, one person's ghetto is another's middle class.

Ophiliasgrandma

Sunday, December 02, 2001 - 12:46 pm Click here to edit this post
Committed couples constantly snipeing at one another with 'names' reminds me of the old torture you'd occasionally see in movies, 'death by a thousand cuts'. It's not just one that causes a problem, but pile them up one after another and over thim they add up to a big hurt...each one a little more than the last. A person can put any spin on it they wish, but it is ultimitly corrosive.

Trinity

Monday, December 03, 2001 - 06:05 am Click here to edit this post
I read an interesting post on Salon today; that a black team might win TAR because it is based on ability and there is no voting, either by the contestants or the TV audience.

Makes me go hmmmmmmm

Corriecat

Monday, December 03, 2001 - 09:42 am Click here to edit this post
I hope they win because they really seem to want to use the money for their daughter. The lawyers will probably do well in their careers and team Guido is evil so I don't want either of them to win. One thing to keep in mind is that Frank and Margarita's job titles may sound much better than the job pays. He could be a trainer at the local burger joint making minimum wage for all we know.

Crazydog

Monday, December 03, 2001 - 11:08 am Click here to edit this post
I've been a supporter of Frank from the first episode, and I still say he often speaks and acts before he thinks. I know many of us probably are or know people like this. Everyone here seems to be attacking him for calling Margarita a "moron". Does anyone else remember that couple that went out first, the guy with the long hair and the Polish woman? Matt and Ana I think. They were lost and she called him a moron, and he said, you married the moron. Why didn't anyone here attack her for saying that? Is it because it was a woman saying it to a man? He seemed a little hurt by the comment. Margarita has known Frank for years, I don't think we can even begin to understand every nuance of their relationship. People seem willing to attack Frank because they don't like him, but I think the Polish woman shows that each relationship is unique, and we should not be so quick to judge.

I agree with Corriecat about "corporate trainer" and "educational technology sales". These definitely sound like resume-titles to me. "Corporate trainer" could very well be the guy in office supplies who trains secretaries how to run the copy machine. Margarita's job could be a telemarketer for Hooked on Phonics. One of the Guidos is listed as "self employed" which for all we know means "unemployed" or "living off someone else's salary".

I guess my point is that regardless of what jobs each individual has, no team "deserves" to win simply because they have less money than the others. I'd be happy to see Margarita and Frank win as well for their daughter. However, I don't think we can assume that if Rob and Brennan or the Guidos win that they won't do some good with the money as well.

Lancecrossfire

Monday, December 03, 2001 - 11:30 am Click here to edit this post
Crazydog, I think the issue with Frank calling her a moron (or any other name he has used) is an issue of intent. Speaking without thinking is indeed his issue--and responsibility. Yes, we all do it, and when we do, it's our goof to own up to.

In Frank's case, he does it on a consistent basis. He also does it instead of dealing with the issue--he goes after the person. She was offering because he had a bad stomach. Her offering was out of concern for him. That certainly doesn't warrant being called a moron.

Your issue of the time a woman does it to a man is well taken. I do think that many times in society, it's seen that it's ok to happen. Men are supposed to be able to "take it like a man". Same thing with physical abuse. In general, it's considered not to be nearly the issue as when a man does it to a woman or a child. To me, it's still wrong in any case.

I question if Frank borders on being a bully. I have no way of knowing for sure--just looking at his approach in general. He intimidates the ping pong kid--but that is competition, and considered to be part of the game. He also intimidates his partner with verbal slams that are not meant as good hearted bantering like the frat boys. All to often Frank attacks the person, not the issue.

Trinity

Monday, December 03, 2001 - 12:51 pm Click here to edit this post
Crazydog I have to agree with you that no one deserves to win because of their financial status. The team that deserves to win is the best team. I don't think having a child or being poor matters, it's may the best team win.

Mssilhouette

Monday, December 03, 2001 - 12:55 pm Click here to edit this post
THe deal with the ping pong kid seems a bit silly to me. I think they were the first team there and the kid didn't warm up, so it was easy for Frank to get the 5 points. Whereas, the lawyer team had the warmed up kid and it took them a while.

I wouldn't call Frank abusive just that he needs to learn how to talk to the woman he loves LIKE she's the woman he loves and (I realize I've stated this a lot) not like ONE OF THE BOYS.

But as several has stated, they have been together for a while and Margarita is used to it. It's troublesome for us to watch but ultimatly she's the one who has to deal with. But since they've been separated for a year, maybe she doesn't have to deal with it either.

As far as the "out of the ghetto" comment that could be likened to their financial status. They do live in NY which ain't exactly a cost effective place to live. I doubt it has anything to do with trying to gain sympthy since no one will be voting and it has to do with skill.

This is still my favorite team to win. Even with all their issues. Sure is better than the Law Boys or Bert & Ernie!

SO again....


GO FRANK & MARGARITA

Squaredsc

Monday, December 03, 2001 - 01:33 pm Click here to edit this post
to be honest i really don't think frank or margarita could really give a da-- about what we or the rest of the public thinks about them, if they did then they would probably wouldn't act as "real" as they have been so far. and does anyone know where they are from?? 'cause the cost of living could be really high if they live in the city and also the cost of raising a child gets higher and higher each year. so whose to say who really needs the money more?? like on bb2 when everyone thought that krista needed the money more than anyone but then thought she would just pi-- it all away (and she probably already has spent all of what got from the stipend by now).

anyway, i still like frank & margarita and it's their relationship not ours i just wish i could look as good after having my children as she does.


GO FRANK & MARGARITA

Car54

Monday, December 03, 2001 - 01:57 pm Click here to edit this post
Squaredsc- they are from NYC. You are right, that is an extremely expensive place to live.

I think the main reason there has been so much discussion about them is that they put it in their bio that they were separated and that this trip was their attempt to see if they could get back together, so of course we are all watching them go through this experience with that in mind.

I think the same sort of discussion happened about Karyn and Lenny- they kind of put themselves out there-discussing their personal relationship on camera, so of course everyone is much more observant of the interaction.

I think Margarita is a very smart woman, and she has already proven she is not a doormat by separating- so IMO she will make a good decision for herself and her child, no matter what. It does seem like in general their relationship has improved- it just seems like the stress at the end of the game is telling on everyone. These people must be absolutely exhausted by this time.

Squaredsc

Monday, December 03, 2001 - 04:22 pm Click here to edit this post
i agree car54, i would be stressed out also, but i just think that frank is getting a raw deal and people are looking at him based on their own personal experiences, but their perception is their reality. i like them and hope this experience was valuable to them, as well as the experiences of the others.
i still wish the frats were still competing(sp). i miss them

Car54

Monday, December 03, 2001 - 04:34 pm Click here to edit this post
Me too.

Spygirl

Monday, December 03, 2001 - 08:33 pm Click here to edit this post
<<<it just seems like the stress at the end of the game is telling on everyone>>>

That may be true, but what about the physical shove in the first episode? Too much stress on day one?

Hippyt

Monday, December 03, 2001 - 09:30 pm Click here to edit this post
Spygirl,You totally misunderstod my post,I guess,I don't think Frank was being abusive either,just the opposite.
I'm tired of this argument.
Emily is rude to her Mom,Drew and Kevin cuss each other,Frank yells at Margarita,Emily is rude to foreigners.
It's a Game,and a game under pressure,calling someone a moron doesn't mean you abuse them.And by the way,after Frank apologized did anyone catch that Margarita called him a Jerk?

Grooch

Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 04:04 am Click here to edit this post
I don't know if anyone mentioned this or not, so forgive me if I am repeating this.

I have not liked the way Frank has treated Margerita at the beginning of the game, so saying that...

When they got to the place where they had to cook the food and they had to decide which one was going to do the challenge before opening the card, it seemed so obvious that whoever picked to do it, that they were going to have to eat the food. It seemed way to obvious.

There is no way in heck I could have eaten it. I would throw up. I think Margerita was thinking it was way to obvious too. So she volunteered then demanded to let her do it. I think she was gambling that the person who picked to go would get a gourmet meal or something else, and the person who didn't pick it, would have to be the one to eat it. (Like the challenge where one got to drive to a destination in a porsche and the other had the putt-putt car.)

That is why she was so upset and frustrated when she realized she did have to eat it. She was pissed at herself. I think Frank knew what she was up to and that is why he was teasing her and calling her a moron.

You could tell she was really frustrated and upset when they were cooking the food. I get the same exact way when I have to do something that needs to be done and I really don't want to do. (ex. when you have to call the health ins company and argue with them about why they refuse a claim, or have to call the IRS when you get a notice in the mail, etc.)

I tense up and stress out as I am about to call, and I do not want to hear one word out of hubby's mouth at the time. I'd rather be alone and collect my thoughts. Anything he says at that time, and I will snap at him. I could see the same look on her face that I get. It didn't appear to me that he was saying it mean at this time, but rather teasing. But she was stressed out.

So he didn't bother me at this time. But other times, he did bother me.

So what do you think? Do you think she tried to outsmart the AR clue and it backfired?

Grooch

Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 04:08 am Click here to edit this post
AS to what their occupations are, can we really believe what TV calls them?

Didn't they list Tina from Survivor as a nurse and she wasn't? And I think there might have been a few other people that reality tv shows listed a different occupation than what they really were. I just can't remember now.

And what they call the ghetto may just be an inside joke to them and the producers thought it would sound great on tv.

Spygirl

Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 04:33 am Click here to edit this post
<<I think all the talk about Frank being abusive is just ridiculous. He's a little abrasive,but calling someone a moron doesn't mean your an abuser,physical or mental. >>


Hippy, sorry to have offended you, but this is the portion of your post to which I was referring.

In my post, I simply stated that I am not basing my viewpoint on the fact that he called her a moron, which your post suggests that some were doing (and some may have). I put in my post the other things I saw that I believe are signs that something is just not quite right between them. I see too many couples with less obvious signs who do have domestic violence in their relationships, so I wanted to state that.

I just observed a case last night with a couple who had been married for many, many years and after an incident in the session (!!!) where he pulled a knife, and then proceeded to pull a pistol on her later, I can tell you that I've seen some very scareeeee stuff that just starts out as someone being "abrasive".

In my opinion, it is never okay to disrespect someone -- stress or no stress. It is true that maybe their relationship permits that, however, I do not think that in another 10 years or so that it will just be some name calling, shoving, and condescending attitude.

I did not intend to make you or anyone else upset/frustrated/etc. This is a difficult topic, but I do not consider it an argument by any means. I am not trying to convince anyone one way or another. I was just stating my view on the couple.

Car, good call about Lenny and Karyn. They did put a lot out there to be discussed during the show. I think this is very similar.

Grooch, excellent thought. Maybe that is why she was so frustrated. I hate it when I try to outsmart something or someone and it backfires! There is nothing worse! hahaha

Squares, I miss the Frats, too. <sigh>

Car54

Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 04:59 am Click here to edit this post
Grooch, I never thought about her trying to get out of the challenge-you might be right.
I thought she was trying to do her share. Usually Frank has been doing the more Physical challenges, and a couple of times- at the temple with the rats and with the icky food, I just thought she was trying to do her fair share of the race.
I didn't really mind Frank this time, it was last week when they were rock climbing and she was really scared and her legs were shaking -he kept yelling at her that kind of bothered me.
She was obviously under a lot of stress, and he just kept pushing- I think he thought he was helping her, but when I am in that kind of situation, I just want people to leave me alone and let me get through it!

Squaredsc

Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 11:10 am Click here to edit this post
grooch, i'm not sure what she was thinking regarding the challenge, i thought she wanted to do it cause his stomach was upset and also like car54 said, she wanted to do her fair share. just a thought.

Fruitbat

Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 12:36 pm Click here to edit this post
Interesting Grooch. We will probably hear when they are interviewed. That had not occured to me, I thought she was saving Franks stomach.

Crazydog

Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 12:59 pm Click here to edit this post
Grooch, I'm not so sure. Margarita doesn't seem like she would think like that. She is a good person and if she had suspected that the person doing the challenge would get a gourmet meal she would have let Frank get it. She really cares for him and seems like the type to put others before themselves. However, I was a little surprised at her reaction considering she is fairly intelligent. The clue said "who's hungry?", how could she not know that she would have to eat the food? Maybe she didn't expect to have to eat it ALL, maybe she thought it was just a tasting, who knows. But I don't think she was trying to get out of it. We have seen Frank do most of the roadblocks... climbing the Eiffel Tower [I am still shaking my head over Lenny], the catacombs in the El Jem colosseum, driving the tiny little car in Italy, the Tiger pit in Thailand, paddling the kayak in Thailand. The only ones I am positive Margarita did was riding the camel in Tunisia, the rat temple in Deshnoke and of course the food eating. Cannot remember who went into the sewers in Paris. Margarita felt like she wanted to do her part, and with Frank's stomach she was trying to watch out for him.

Smileeys

Tuesday, December 04, 2001 - 10:17 pm Click here to edit this post
I have been mostly quiet on this subject because I know when I liked Will in BB, I got tired of people saying that the ones who liked him must have problems themselves or something similiar so haven't wanted to say too much about F/M because I actually don't like either that much. As far as the game goes, though, they are great players and I won't be surprised if they win (rooting for the lawyer, though, because they are incredibly sweet). However, I will support Spygirl in her assessment of Frank and say I have had similiar thoughts. And like her, this is not based on the moron comment. Someone else stated that her and her husband do this kind of bickering and she would be giving it back to him - hmmm kind of makes you wonder why M doesn't. She has stood up for herself more lately but I think that has to do with his somewhat changed attitude and her realizing she can get away with it. Anyway, I wish them the best. I can see where the people are coming from that think it is just bickering but I don't really agree with that assessment because it is soooo one-sided. Just my thoughts.