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Babyjaxmom
Member
10-20-2002
| Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 2:12 pm
Hermi, I have to say I agree with you 1000%. As DH and I were watching the other night, I commented that I could understand how Sue was feeling. What woman hasn't been in a situation where something inappropriate happened or was said and you laughed it off at the time, but later on realized how belittling it was? Most of us need time to process stuff. Touching someone with your genitals is TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE behavior (unless you're having consensual sex), I don't care how tough Sue is or isn't. It also doesn't matter what may or may not lie in her past experiences. It was inappropriate. The whole episode just turned my stomach, especially the reactions of Tom, Rob, Kathy (!) and some of the others. It's a reflection of how our society reacts to something that's too ugly or too unpleasant to acknowledge: let's just pretend it's no big deal! I, too, thought Alicia came out looking the best. She was the only one who showed any empathy. I hope after watching themselves on TV, some of them had a change of heart about their behavior. Tom's dance was disgusting!!!! As far as Rupert (used to love him, this season not so much) saying Sue told him she was going to sue for $10 million, I can see that as coming from the hurt and anger she was feeling at the time. Whether or not she ever seriously intended to take legal action, she was just voicing how angry she really was. And I think the response of worrying about what her husband would think was more out of embarassment or that he would be upset to see her treated that way. I have to agree with those who wondered how people would've felt if it had been Amber instead of Sue? Like Sue was better able to handle a sexual assault than Amber? Give me a break! That's like saying the rape victim brought it on herself by wearing provocative clothing, being in the wrong place or being sexually active. Richard crossed a line. It's called boundaries. Sue may have been bantering with Richard and provoking him, but she never asked for him to touch her with his penis.
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Reader234
Member
08-13-2000
| Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 4:21 pm
Go BJM!! I talked to my mom on Thursday after the show, and I was shocked at how angry she was (she isnt an internet person) she just kept yelling over and over again, many of the same points that babyjmom stated (you did it much better tho, btw!!)Mom was also disgusted with how Rich was on all the talk show circuits in such a "cavelier" attitude, I tried to calm her down by explaining, but my mom wanted Sue to hit them all with lawsuits, I was surprised at how angry my mom was!! Many great opinions are expressed here...
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Babyjaxmom
Member
10-20-2002
| Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 5:36 pm
Thanks, Reader! I would also like to add that my sweet DH was almost tearful, he felt so sorry for Sue. Ah, if only all men were so sensitive! The world would be a kinder place! 
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Jimmer
Member
08-30-2000
| Tuesday, March 09, 2004 - 10:05 pm
Apologies in advance, but Sue just never struck me as being sensitive. We are talking about a woman who felt comfortable deliberately urinating on a raft in front of an entire cast, crew and millions in a viewing audience. Before anyone takes me to task for this, may I also say that I understand that her inappropriate and offensive actions in no way excuse Richard’s behaviour.
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Kep421
Member
08-11-2001
| Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 4:57 am
I don't understand the correlation between Sue's "sensitivity" and her reaction to the incident. Does this mean that any woman whose ever made a crass remark, or ever acted inappropriately, doesn't have the right to be offended? I myself have done some very "unlady" like things, does that mean I shouldn't be offended by unwanted sexual touching? The right to NOT be touched inappropriately is not reserved soley for the prim and proper or suitably "sensitive" people. I don't care if Sue danced the hoochy koochy on a grass hut naked, that doesn't mean she wouldn't be upset over inappropriate touching. jmho.
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Babyjaxmom
Member
10-20-2002
| Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 10:33 am
Perfectly stated, Kep. Miss Alli, the Survivor recapper over at TWOP (TV without Pity), had this to say about Chapera's lack of compassion toward Sue, especially after she left: "So I guess all I can say to Rob and Big Tom, to Kathy and Rupert, and to everyone else who witnessed that situation developing and chose to err on the side of -you is this: May the people you love who have something bad happen to them that doesn't really make sense to other people get a little greater share of people's humanity than you saw fit to spare for Sue. Because humanity-wise, that was a piss-poor showing." I was so disgusted by some of the people on last week's show (ie. Tom, Rupert, KATHY), it made me wonder whether I could ever watch any of them again. I'm sure I'll be over that feeling by Thursday ( ), but I'll never look at some of those people the same way again. I'm rooting for Alicia from here on out!
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Redstar
Member
07-07-2003
| Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 4:29 pm
"I don't care if Sue danced the hoochy koochy on a grass hut naked..." LMAO, but now I can't get the image out of my head...

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Redstar
Member
07-07-2003
| Wednesday, March 10, 2004 - 4:35 pm
"I don't care if Sue danced the hoochy koochy on a grass hut naked..." LMAO, but now I can't get the image out of my head...
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Rupertbear
Member
09-19-2003
| Thursday, March 11, 2004 - 10:14 am
I believe 'sensitivity' and reaction are directly related.
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Jimmer
Member
08-30-2000
| Friday, March 12, 2004 - 9:29 pm
I’ll restate my original comment (in the event anyone missed my point). There is absolutely no excuse for Richard’s behaviour. Having said that, I agree with Rupertbear. There is a direct correlation between sensitivity and reaction. Of course, everyone has an equal “right” to be offended and react strongly if they are touched inappropriately. However, it doesn’t mean that some people may not be more affected by that sort of thing than others.
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Queenfish
Member
07-24-2002
| Saturday, March 13, 2004 - 7:11 am
i agree Jimmer. Our LIfe experiences and our natural demeanor make up how we react to situations. When a family member passes away, everyone reacts differently, When people win big prizes, they all react differently. Sue acted the way Sue acts either because of life experience, her natural demeanor, or a combo of both. We don't know what pushes her buttons, we just know that her buttons are pushable. I have watched her look as she got in the boat to leave the game, over and over. That's the look of a woman in pain, emotionally. People who have a lot of pain, sometimes are very dramatic, emotional people. And Thats what I think.
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Upstate
Member
01-16-2004
| Sunday, March 14, 2004 - 2:27 pm
babyjaxmom i agree with what you said about how tribesmen and women reacted. between jenna and sue leaving.....kathy has showed to me to be a very selfish unsympathetic/pathetic person. all i've ever heard about kathy is how great she is. that she got robbed....well boo hoo poor kathy. most of the survivors could say the same thing. as far as sue.....i have to trust it is as she says. from what i saw she seemed truly affected by the whole thing.
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Sunshyne4u
Member
06-17-2003
| Sunday, March 14, 2004 - 6:12 pm
I went back to the beginning of one of the threads discussing this...there was a link to the video of the incident. I rewatched it and was amazed. It was much worse than I remembered. ** Sue starts down the left beam, wavering unsteady steps back onto the platform where the beams are intersecting. She says she NEEDS the other beam, COME ON RICHARD Sue yells at Rich who is half way across. SUE WAITS ON The PLATFORM..she does NOT try to pass him on the beam as others here have written as a reason that she got 'rubbed'. ie HER FAULT is suggested. Instead Sue waits on the platform, Rich comes up to her off the beam, puts his arms UP and groin rubs her...front, as she tries to move onto the beam Rich groin rubs her all the way around the rt side of her body and then her butt. Then Jeff yells. **** I didnt realise how LONG Rich did his deed until rewatching this link. A FULL SIX Seconds! There was some discussion about Rich just doing this by mistake as he was passing by....Heck NO! The platform that Sue was waiting on could have had FOUR people on it...Rich had Sue cornered against the edge of the platform and He was completely faced backwards to the direction he was to go. There was plenty of room for him to pass without touching her at all. ** AS for KATHY, she has lost my support. In my opinion, she belittled Sue's complaint and made some comment about how "she never saw anything". Kathy had her BACK turned...of course she never saw anything. It is interesting how society is. The average person does not want to think that anyone would purposefully Do something rude or obscene. Doubt and the feeling that the complainer is exaggerating is always considered as MORE LIKELY. I never watched RICH or SUE on any of the talkshows. I just hope that Sue was truly compensated for her embarrassment...and frankly, some comments were close to slanderous, imho. ;-(
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Babyjaxmom
Member
10-20-2002
| Monday, March 15, 2004 - 10:03 am
Quote: "It is interesting how society is. The average person does not want to think that anyone would purposefully Do something rude or obscene. Doubt and the feeling that the complainer is exaggerating is always considered as MORE LIKELY." Sunshyne, it's even more interesting when you think about how so often the VICTIM also tries to convince themselves that everything's okay. That's why I think it took a while for Sue to realize how she really felt about it (and okay, she didn't really have that much else to do on the island). As I said above, many times something happens and we try to convince ourselves that it didn't mean anything, but the more we process it, the more we realize that it did. Does that make sense? I truly hope that the other All-Stars who doubted Sue had a serious change of heart when they saw what transpired on TV (especially Rupert and Kathy). I think they both owe Sue an apology. The Reunion show should be interesting. I wonder if they'll talk about it? If any legal action is pending, they may not be able to. We shall see . . .
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Readonly
Member
04-16-2003
| Monday, March 15, 2004 - 12:56 pm
Just a question? What did Rupert do? I know he laughed at Big Tom and Rob, but did he say something unkind as well? If so, I agree that he should apoligize, but so should Big Tom and Rob for their song and dance routine.
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Maris
Member
03-28-2002
| Monday, March 15, 2004 - 1:55 pm
Rupert basically said the motivating factor for Susan's outburst was greed, i.e. she was doing it for money. He wasn't sympathetic and was pretty critical.
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Readonly
Member
04-16-2003
| Monday, March 15, 2004 - 2:30 pm
Thanks. I wish he hadn't done that. I was quite a Rupert fan during the last Survivor. I feel great sympathy for Sue. I was groped by a man more twice my age when I was about 19 (and I was a very young 19). This happened at the office and when I worked up the nerve to tell the boss about it, he said I should just give the guy a break -- didn't I know he was an alcoholic and that he had problems at home, etc., etc. This was long before there were any sexual harassment laws. So, anyway, I felt empathy for Sue. And shame on Rupert for not being more understanding.
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Rupertbear
Member
09-19-2003
| Monday, March 15, 2004 - 2:36 pm
He made the remark based on the fact that Sue told him she was considering suing Richard.
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Monday, March 15, 2004 - 3:00 pm
I don't think we should shame Rupert. I also think we (I am guilty at times too) should not judge these people. Who are we to judge them?
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Landi
Member
07-29-2002
| Monday, March 15, 2004 - 3:27 pm
we also seem to forget that we are seeing 1 hour of fottage for approximately 72 hours. rupert was told by susan that she was considering sueing richard and cbs. she also obviously told this to rob, as he repeated it also. until they got off the island (and they're still not supposed to talk to their other tribemates) how would they know that she had a "change of heart" or was presumed to have been paid off by mark burnett and cbs. i can't think we can judge this, since we do not have all the facts
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Readonly
Member
04-16-2003
| Monday, March 15, 2004 - 3:36 pm
Sorry. I wasn't trying to judge Rupert. I love him!!! I based what I said on the other posts I read. I guess I'll go back into lurkdom.
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Queenfish
Member
07-24-2002
| Monday, March 15, 2004 - 3:57 pm
Sue said on the early show that she had decided not to sue. Don't go into lurkdom readonly, I like reading what you have to say. i like Rupert also, I know you weren't trying to judge him. I agree that Big Tom and Rob were way harsh in their jubilation of Sue quiting the game. Maybe now that they have all seen the show, they realize how wrong they were in their behavior. I sure hope they do anyway. Sue was truly affected by this , and it can not be just brushed off like a piece of lint on your arm. CBS and MB will have to make amends with her, as a human being, in some way shape or form. They probably allready have.
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Lancecrossfire
Moderator
07-13-2000
| Monday, March 15, 2004 - 4:05 pm
Read, I hope you don't go back to lurkdom!!! Heck, I think making a statement sch as "they are playing under the radar--I think strong players should win" or "they were just sitting around camp--that doesn't help the tribe" is a type of judgement. I think the type of judgement we all should stay away from (and by the rules we should as well) is deciding what kind of a person one of these folks are only based on the 40 minutes out of the 3 days we see. I think saying something like "Jerri is complaining too much about not sleeping and she's not helping enough with the chores" is a type of judgment, although completely allowed and looked for in our discussion of the game. I wouldn't lie when playing--others would. That is the great thing about discussing this game with others--so many ways to play, so many ways to evaluate. Please stick around and let us know how you feel about the game.
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Landi
Member
07-29-2002
| Monday, March 15, 2004 - 4:24 pm
and i was just making a generalized statement. i didn't mean for readonly to take that to heart. i just think that mark burnett and cbs leads us to believe their editing as the one and only truth. we've seen with bb that isn't the case. they leave things out of editing, they move things from different times for their commercials to entice us to think a certain way. etc. etc. i will not let them sway me into thinking about a person in a certain manner till i hear it out of their own lips!
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Lancecrossfire
Moderator
07-13-2000
| Monday, March 15, 2004 - 4:26 pm
Landi, what a good point about editing---MB didn't show us any of the Colby/Tina alliance--not one second of it during any of the shows. A lot can go on that we never see. For instance, Rob could have had a couple moments of humility--but so far, we haven't seen a single second.
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