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Yuhuru
Member
09-27-2001
| Friday, March 05, 2004 - 2:12 pm
Puttergirl, You're absolutely right. Alicia had the best approach to me as well, and I'm not surprised. I'm a fan of hers, and I'm rooting for her to win - even with the 'tude. But while I thought that the others comments were harsh(I mean Kathy was out there) I decided to try to put myself in their moccasins. Sue never showed a soft side. EVERYBODY knows her from that disatrous S1 final. It may have been difficult for them to see her as vulnerable, and therefore difficult for them to believe that she was truly violated and not just playing the game.
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Crossfire
Member
08-07-2001
| Friday, March 05, 2004 - 3:26 pm
Regarding Sue being tough...we've seen her soft side before. I don't recall all the specifics, but I do remember her being quite hurt by some of the events of the first season and her new friend on the island. She felt betrayed or something, and that really did not sit well with her at all, it resulted in that rage we all remember her by, but that was an evolution of emotions, she started out much more hurt than angry.
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Realfan
Member
08-08-2001
| Friday, March 05, 2004 - 3:44 pm
That's right, Crossfire, she felt Kelly had betrayed her. She's a slow boil type, who lets things fester until she explodes. I completely buy that the incident with Rich bothered her deeply.
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Cruzlvr
Member
11-13-2003
| Friday, March 05, 2004 - 4:07 pm
I am not going to say who I think was in the right or who was in the wrong because obviously that is a personal thing between Rich and Sue and only the two of them know what really happened (and that being each from their own perspective). I am just rambling here throwing around some random thoughts trying to see it from the player’s eyes. It might sound like I am defending the other players but I am not, just trying to see it from their point of view. Kathy - at the time she made those comments in her confessional - what did she really know - she didn’t see all of Sue’s emotions as she isn’t on Sue’s team. It appears the only thing she does know is what happened during the challenge and then by looking at the tape it looks like she had her back to them for most if not all of it. She also has heard many times the “bantering” back and forth between Rich and Sue (some of it being sexual - the comment Sue made about Rich “not having any bone for her”) Kathy didn’t have a clue as to the emotional upheaval Sue had gone through the last few days. From Kathy’s point of view she is there to play the game and not have a lot of personal drama going on around her. I think that is what she was responding to in her confessional. (Cold as it may be she is thinking of the million and how close she came before - she is totally focused on the “game”) What Rob and Tom did back at camp after Sue left was not good. I do think that they were all uncomfortable with the whole situation and like people do sometimes, especially when there is no escape (they are stuck there together), they make light of it and joke about it. I am Not saying they were right. I watched again and have to agree with what someone else said - - - I don’t think Rupert was laughing at Sue but at the dance Tom was doing. Rob and Tom were the instigators and the rest of the tribe seemed to be the bystanders and not knowing what else to do laughed. Sometimes laughing relieves the tension. (And most likely some will be embarrassed when they see the show). Also even though they knew Sue was in a lot of emotional pain I don’t think they were totally sure if it was true or an act - Didn’t Rupert say Sue told him she would sue Rich for ten million or something along those lines. Is it possible that that comment is where Rupert’s doubt came from? I know we live in a pretty sue happy world - but if I was emotionally distraught I am not sure I would be thinking along those lines that close to the trauma happening. I am not saying who is right or wrong - just trying to see it from their perspective, realizing that we as the viewers probably have a lot more information than they do - they don’t see the confessionals and the others teams like we do. On the Early Show this morning Sue originally said she started down one plank and then wanted to use the other as it was “shortest” back and her balance wasn’t that good. Then later in the conversation she said that the rules as told to her tribe were they had to go down one plank and return on another one plank Richard said they had not been told that rule. (My thought - if that was the rule as told to Sue’s tribe - why was Sue’s tribe yelling at her to go down the plank she originally started going down before she turned to go down the one Rich was on?) Did anyone else notice if the rest of her tribe went down one plank and returned on the other?
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Magicjet
Member
09-25-2003
| Friday, March 05, 2004 - 5:38 pm
I hope Kathy or Tom gets voted off next. I was kind of rooting for Rob but not now. I really never liked bossy Alicia but now I hope she stays. I'm disappointed in Rupert. I of course want Lex to win. Having said all that, strangly enough, Johnny Fairplay - I always liked. I have no answer for that.
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Weinermr
Member
08-18-2001
| Friday, March 05, 2004 - 7:10 pm
I'm not going to excuse Kathy's reaction to Sue, but I can offer an explanation for it. I think Sue's behavior and comments induced certain emotions in Kathy that were extremely unpleasant to Kathy, and she didn't want to feel them. She found them very hard to deal with. She wanted to deal with the game, and not the emotional demons that Sue had induced in her and just about everyone else. If Kathy had no empathy, she wouldn't have been fazed by Sue's outburst. Kathy seemed to be saying that it wasn't right for Sue to be bringing those things to the game. Again, I'm not saying Kathy is right. Sue was clearly distraught, and had reason to be. Kathy just couldn't deal with those emotions, and was angry that they had been introduced into the situation.
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Watching2
Member
07-07-2001
| Friday, March 05, 2004 - 7:39 pm
I just wanted to make a point that keeps coming to mind as I read through this thread. Whether Richard is gay or not, is not the point. It's also not really all that much about sex, in itself, even though sexual organs were involved. It was all about insult, humiliation and belitting someone, just as rape is not about sex, but about violence and control. Richard was all about out-doing whatever insult Sue could throw at him and bettering her at being in control. There is no bigger insult to a human being than to be sexually violated in any manner. Prision rape isn't about getting sex, it's all about putting someone in their place, a bad place. FWIW
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Kappy
Member
06-29-2002
| Friday, March 05, 2004 - 8:57 pm
Thank you, Cruzlvr for how you worded it so objectively. And I just want to point out once again that it was Rob who started the song "Ding Dong, the Witch is dead", not Big Tom. Tom just laughed at it and then to dance to it. So if folks want to condemn Tom, then you need to condemn Rob as well.
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Magicjet
Member
09-25-2003
| Friday, March 05, 2004 - 9:07 pm
All men except for Lex and Ethan are <LC> at heart- lol
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Hermione69
Member
07-24-2002
| Friday, March 05, 2004 - 10:42 pm
Cruzlover, very good post. I didn't like Tom or Kathy's behavior and comments. Or Rob's. But I am rooting for Rob in Adven's game and have to defend him. In any event, I agree with what Cruzlover said about how people sometimes use humor inappropriately to diffuse uncomfortable situations. I have done that myself so I actually had LESS of a problem with Tom and Rob than I did with Kathy's confessional. I could see where Tom and Rob's behavior was coming from, but I couldn't get Kathy's comments, especially as I felt a woman should be more empathetic. I did wonder if maybe Kathy was feeling defensive because the Mogo Mogo tribe encouraged Richard to strip. In any event, I agree with those who were most impressed with Alicia. She showed true class.
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Sherbabe
Member
07-28-2002
| Friday, March 05, 2004 - 11:30 pm
I think if Richard were a straight man, parading around naked all the time, this would have come to a screeching halt a long time ago. CBS,as well as the other contestants would not have been as tolerant as they have been with Richard.
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Pamy
Member
01-02-2002
| Friday, March 05, 2004 - 11:31 pm
WEINER!!!! Good to see you!!!!
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Tabbyking
Member
03-11-2002
| Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 10:36 am
now, pamy, had sue said that, everything would have been okay.
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Tabbyking
Member
03-11-2002
| Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 10:39 am
it was 'ding dong the witch is gone' not 'dead', that they sang, but still in bad taste. i just think 'gone' sounds a little less bad than 'dead'. was it wrong to sing any variation of that song? you betcha.
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Pamy
Member
01-02-2002
| Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 12:23 pm
ROTLMAO Tabby!!!!!
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Lurknomore
Member
07-07-2001
| Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 12:42 pm
Hey all...I usually only come out during Big Brother but thought I'd see what everyone was saying about this. I only read the last few pages and didn't see my main thoughts, so sorry if I missed em but; First, if she was that upset why didn't she just tell off Richard at the time. That "gross" didn't sound too upset and maybe I'm just being cynical but given Sue's love of making big speeches that become infamous I think she saw that, and lawsuit possibilities and decided to take that route...especially since I think she sized up the tribe and knew she wasn't gonna be around for the long haul. But having been pals with Richard (well sort of lol) in the past, I think when they got to speak he told her how he almost lost his son once and how this could ruin his life. So I think she just dropped it, maybe with a few $$$ under the table from Burnett. So maybe I'm being cynical (what reality tv has turned into has done that to me lol) but that's my guess.
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 2:23 pm
I agree with LurkNM
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 2:25 pm
Good one tabby!!! 
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Seamonkey
Member
09-07-2000
| Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 4:52 pm
Well, Sue and Rich are correct.. it is very fresh for the viewers, but not so for the two of them. THey seem to have worked it out between themselves and agree to disagree. Rich says he was astounded when Sue taunted him and didn't take the other path. Sue says that their tribe was told the had to go back on a certain path, Rich says their team never got that instruction. Rich says he felt she first mocked him, or taunted him. Sue doesn't agree. Sue says she did think of suing but thought better of it. Rich says he learned that Sue is way more sensitive than he had ever thought and he regrets hurting her. BOTH of them say that reactions had nothing to do with hunger, that ASS was a cakewalk as far as food was concerned, compared to their season. They AGREE that being out there causes stress and causes reactions that are far different than they would be in regular life. (All this. my impressions from the Early Show with Rich and Sue) Sue did not watch the episode but isn't at all surprised that Tom did his dance.. her read is that FINALLY Tom got his dance on the show, but that he did it all the time. She also mentioned his drinking.
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Buggles
Member
09-07-2002
| Saturday, March 06, 2004 - 10:14 pm
Lurknomore, I agree completely with you... you just said it waaay more concisely than I did I think we may be in the minority here though. Say hypothetically Sue knew she couldn't sue, was unable to give a big speech, loved her tribe and thought she actually had a good shot at the million.... would she STILL have left as a result of her 'emotional trauma?' You & I don't think so, but others here I think do (which is fine, everyone's entitled )
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Kappy
Member
06-29-2002
| Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 10:54 am
No, you're not alone, Buggles. I agree with what Lurk said as well. I think alot of people are being sensitive to the issue because of things that have happened in their own lives.
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Buggles
Member
09-07-2002
| Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 11:24 am
Thanks Kappy, and I think you're right about that. I don't mean to come across as unsupportive of sexual harrassment or rape issues, in many cases it burns me up (the Air Force Academy rapes, the completed 'rape test kits' sitting on shelves, etc). In this case though I think the indiscretion was very minor in the whole context, and judging from Sue's behavior, body language, history, etc, I just couldn't buy that she was leaving the game unilaterally because of the 'emotional trauma' inflicted by Richard's silly brush-up. She looked like she was 'acting' to me, and honestly I am usually the FIRST one to believe people. I frankly think she talked herself into feeling 'victimized' so she could capitalize on the situation, especially as she seemed ready to leave anyway.
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 11:27 am
Hey! I said I agreed with Lurk too!!!!!
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Buggles
Member
09-07-2002
| Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 11:29 am
Oh yeah, I liked your posts too... sorry Julieboo   
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Julieboo
Member
02-05-2002
| Sunday, March 07, 2004 - 11:29 am
and Sea, that was a great summary of them onthe early show.
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