Archive through October 07, 2003
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: General Discussions: Why Lilian??: Archive through October 07, 2003

Badabing

Monday, October 06, 2003 - 06:48 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Sure Maris, Rupert is my favorite Survivor of all times too, but, never the less, if he is outnumbered by a younger alliance, or a "prettier" alliance no matter how good we think he is, or how well he plays the game, he's outta there !

I still would like to see a game ( probably with less physical challenges and more mental ones ) where all the players are over 40... Remember, this is a dream, so forget the more disposable income crowd and bring in the Tagament and Cumidin sponsorship...lol

Maris

Monday, October 06, 2003 - 06:56 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I disagree, Rupert will be kept by his teammates. The difference between Morgan and Drake is not age and beauty it is brains. Rupert will be kept until the tribes merge and then he is at risk because he is a great competitor.

Every year regardless of the show there always seems to be this view that its the age of the competitors that is wrong and somehow if a participant is over forty they are more deserving of the win because they arent young or eye candy. Maybe it is the way the show is edited and what Burnett choses that we see but Lill did not impress me and she didnt seem to gel with her tribe. I am not so quick to blame the whole tribe for Lils problem. Maybe it was Lils personality.

I also dont assume that a reality show full of forty year olds is going to give us ethical and above board game play. I know a few over forties who are pretty evil.

Lorry

Monday, October 06, 2003 - 07:03 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Ahhhh the over 40 crowd... hmmmm Anyone here ever been to a VFW Bingo Hall??? hahahaha

Let me tell you.. for those not in the know... I've seen some blue haired ladies and white haired gents really really get into it while playing bingo.

I once saw a 89lb granny have to be removed, cane and all, because she attacked the equally elderly lady who called bingo before her... roflmbo

I think being over 40 or 50 or even over 60, would provide some hale and hearty and enthusiastic survivors.

Sure, the challenges would have to be a little less extreme... but I could see a good game. Hey, put me on a pole in the middle of the ocean, and other than the metal on my wheelchair getting a tad hot.... I could sit there for hours... haha

Badabing

Monday, October 06, 2003 - 07:18 am EditMoveDeleteIP
See Maris, you have just proven my point. I'm not saying older players are more deserving to win because of their age nor am i saying Rupet WILL be ousted by a younger or "prettier" alliance. I just said that i WOULD like to see a reality show with over 40's and that IF a younger or "perttier" alliance decided to go against the Rupe, he'd be out. You just want to win an argument and i surrender, you win.

Lorry, that must have been a funny incident with the 89lbs granny...lol

Maris

Monday, October 06, 2003 - 07:21 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Badabing, my point is that if a younger or prettier alliance goes against Rupert, I am giving him credit for being a threat. Rupert will be a threat regardless of his looks. I am just not so quick to whine about him being booted because he wasnt pretty or young. I would say he was booted because he was a threat to win all the competitions.

I dont want to win an argument, I just want to express my views which happen to be different from yours. If however, you dont want to have a discourse about it that is fine.

March

Monday, October 06, 2003 - 08:07 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Lauram - I don't think Lil's support is because everyone thinks she was the best but because there were others on the team that did sooo much less than her and they should have been booted before her. For example Darrah, we have seen her do what???
Catfat - Yes they did discuss that they could do Lil's jobs, BUT the big question is will they?? They might know how to go get water and how to make a fire but none of them ever seemed to want to, that was why Lil was always doing it.

Enigma2

Monday, October 06, 2003 - 08:28 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Re over 40

I do a lot of work for the travel industry. Statistics seem to prove that the older-than-40 group have more disposable income and are more likely to travel. Yet, advertisers and copy writers still insist on gearing their production to the younger folk.

Statistics also seem to indicate that the people over retirement age are rapidy becoming a larger and larger percentage of the population. (They are living longer.)

(by coincidence, I just posted a note re age in the 'Getting to Know You' area.) But, in brief, I had always suggested –for Big Brother– divorced people in their 40s with their exes –they could have argued over alimony.

Back at the islands, Andrew at 40 is not proving to be a wealth of wisdom; Lil at 51 is gone. I still have hopes for Trish, who –at 41– is my 2nd favorite Drakette.

Earthmother

Monday, October 06, 2003 - 10:18 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Here is what Lillian did wrong:

She isn't a bikini babe who brags about her sexual prowess and would be willing to show it all for a piece of chocolate.

She isn't the kind one of these guys want to hook up with.


She is a plain woman over 40 who I'm sure is being perceived as a nerd by the pretty people..

Maris

Monday, October 06, 2003 - 10:20 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Maybe earthmother she was just a whiner and a pain in the butt.

Lancecrossfire

Monday, October 06, 2003 - 10:27 am EditMoveDeleteIP
If that is the case, then Andrew and Osten should have been out long before her.

Lorry

Monday, October 06, 2003 - 10:40 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree with Lance, and Earthmother.. I'm still hoping she comes back.

Maris

Monday, October 06, 2003 - 10:41 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree they should be out Lance. I would have booted Osten the minute he said I want to go home. I am not willing to make excuses for Lil because of her age just as I wouldnt make excuses for Andrew and Osten because of their age and looks.

Sweetpea1994

Monday, October 06, 2003 - 10:48 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I think Lil and Ryan S. both spoke up during TC's and confessionals and stated that the problems with the tribe was a lack of teamwork. The rest of Morgan just wanted to look for other reasons to blame their losses on and Ryan S. and Lil were the other reasons. If you look at the first day in the village you'll see what I mean. Ryan O. runs off to find a boat without supplies or money. Tijuana is arguing with the locals (didn't anyone explain the concept of more bees with honey to her). Andrew, Darrah, Ryan and Lil look lost. Osten sells (or trades) his clothing and then they leave the island with money when it is clearly obvious they didn't have enough supplies. (Ryan S. questioned leaving the village with money) Ryan S. also said he hoped they would get to their island and celebrate being a tribe and they were worried about getting everything done (shelter, water, fire). Which by the way their shelter still s**ks (even after they have repeatedly said they will fix it). They have no follow through. Andrew got rid of Lil (and Ryan S.) because they were intelligent enough to see through his Bulls**t leadership abilities.

Maris

Monday, October 06, 2003 - 11:07 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Sweetpea, you present an excellent argument and you could be right.

Lancecrossfire

Monday, October 06, 2003 - 11:16 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I think what Earthmother was trying to say that for Andrew and Osten, the looks and the age difference has indeed made a difference. If they were 40+ and not good looking, they too would very well be out.

Only being able to go by 40 minutes out of 3 days, I think a couple things hurt Lil because of her efforts. She seemed to not care about what others wanted, because she went off on her own to fish. From my vantage point, she had no way of knowing when anyone was actually going to join in--a lot of their take is just that, hot air.

She 1) didn't bring back any fish and 2) lost the last hook. I think if she had some luck with getting fish, they would have viewed her efforts a bit differently. She also didn't have anyone else to blame it on. (not saying she would have made use of that--just that she couldn't place blame like Andrew and Osten have been doing).

I think she was in a lose-lose situation though--that if she had tried to take charge, and even been successful, she would still be out. Andrew and his alliance aren't going to allow anyone to take over--and fail or be successful.

Morgan is in an interesting place now--if they have to boot any more of their tribe, they must boot someone who is part of the "in group". And it's early to be doing that--to set up the group and immediately have to turn on one of your own. I think having to do that puts everyone in a position of believing that nothing is safe--that any trust is out the window.Drake has gotten rid of all the people they have blamed for their failure--nwo they will have to make up a new set of reasons if they face any further failure.

Enigma2

Monday, October 06, 2003 - 01:03 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Please correct me if I am wrong:

Darrah is not part of the in-group (Didn't Andrew say his choice for an out-vote was between Darrah and Lill? And then didn't he say that he decided on Lill for 'stategic' reasons?

The core of the in-group seems to be Andrew, Tijuana and Osten, w. Ryan O. as a fringe member?

Reader234

Monday, October 06, 2003 - 01:08 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I just really think survivor is a game of alliances. And the leader picked his alliance, and that is still going strong. I think if Andrew had picked her to be in his alliance, then she would still be in this game.

I really hope Survivor (celbrity et el) can find a way to play this game without alliances, then I think it could be interesting. I think Lil has tried to play this game naivelly, ie with out alliances. So maybe that is our problem (over 40, I'm in that crowd!!) Plus, think of the uniform she has on... she cannot lie, or backstab, it isnt part of the scouting way, and she has made a definate statement by wearing that uniform.

I also would love to see a Survivor over 40 game, or a BB over 40 game, but I am a realist, aint gonna happen as long as the advertisers gear everyting to the young crowd...

Sweetpea1994

Monday, October 06, 2003 - 01:09 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Yes Enigma you are right. The "in"crowd appears to be Andrew, Osten, Tijuana and Ryan O. Darrah will be the next reason they are losing. ;)

Enigma2

Monday, October 06, 2003 - 01:26 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Reader234 brings up another question (in the reference to the scouts uniform):

In the murky mists of memory, I seem to recall –on the first show– that the clothes that the survivors were wearing at 'that fatal moment' were the same clothes that they were wearing during video shots of them on planes on route to the islands. Does anyone recall?

I was wondering what 'instructions' were given to the '16' which prompted them to be dressed in a wide variety from suits-and-dresses through scouts uniforms to casual tank tops/jeans?? In short, I find that their 'final' garb was somewhat curious? Did the producers set-them-up in order to make the show more dramatic?

Texannie

Monday, October 06, 2003 - 01:30 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
They were told to dress for a photo shoot.

Maris

Monday, October 06, 2003 - 01:33 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
My understanding was that the castaways thought they were going to a press conference or publicity shoot for the upcoming Survivor show. They didnt know they were actually going to their islands. It isnt surprising that Lil would wear her scout uniform to promote scouting and her role in scouts, just like Mr. Armani wore his suit to promote his image as a hot shot exec.

I am not sure that Lil would have picked her unform to wear on the island as it would probably get ruined and I dont think she would risk her medals or uniform out of choice.

Needmylifeback

Monday, October 06, 2003 - 04:37 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Ahhh.. But, I think the scout uniform is the perfect attire if only one change of clothing can be worn....those things are made to be durable, wash and wear (Lil swam in hers and it still looked good!). The color (kahki) is made with the outdoors in mind. It's constructed with double stitched seams. It was probably the most durable out of anything anyone else was wearing! ...

I wore one for 4 years of being a leader (now I didn't wear it every day...but.....) it looked the same after 4 years of meetings/campouts...as it did the first time I wore it!

Meridian

Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 05:33 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I would also love to see "older" players. Rudy, from the first Survivor, is an incredible character. He brought so much humour to the beach with his "gourmet kitchen" and his repeated stance of "I don't know; I don't care" regarding alliances, etc. Unfortunately, in this game, sleek bodies rank higher than active brains. A sincere effort to encourage more contestants of Lil's age would definitely be appreciated.

Maris

Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 05:53 am EditMoveDeleteIP
The age group here is pretty mixed. Andrew is 40, Lillian was 51, Trish is 44 and Rupert is 39.

Survivor has had older players who have done quite well in the game. Richard Hatch was 39 and certainly wasnt eye candy, yet he won. Tina was 40 and she won Survivor 2. Kim made it I think to the final two in Survivor Africa and she was 57. Paschal went very far in Survivor Marquesas and he was in his late fifties and so did Kathy and she was in her late forties.

I dont think age is a factor at all in Survivor and I dont believe the show will be any better if there are more older people.

Tishala

Tuesday, October 07, 2003 - 08:35 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Wow. Good points Ms Maris!