Archive through November 14, 2003
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: General Discussions: Is Lillian A Little Cranky These Days???: Archive through November 14, 2003

Tabbyking

Saturday, November 08, 2003 - 10:26 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
it will take something different about lil to make me 'feel the love'. the grumpy, pouty faces and the whining...and she didn't seem to do that much work at morgan, either, before she was voted out.
was she better than some of the others? probably. but lousy is still lousy. it almost seemed as if morgan thought they were out for a '3-hour tour' (for whoever thought of the "gilligan" analogy, you were right on!) and didn't think they were seriously going to have to work hard for shelter, food and challenges.
now, had there been a different division at the beginning? had lil been on drake or rupert on morgan?; i'm sure things would have played out different.
lil is going to have to crank it up a notch to make me think she deserves to make it to one of the final 4. however, this game can change quickly, so maybe this second chance shows us a new lil.
i kind of wish it had been ryan s who went back in. i do think he was just 'pooh poohed' by andrew because of his youth and not given a chance.

Llkoolaid

Sunday, November 09, 2003 - 06:42 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I was a fan of Lil's but not anymore. I realize she was in a hard spot, Morgan obviously didn't want her and Drake only wanted to use her. I would appreciate her a little more if she had of tried to work a deal with Andrew to be given a chance and not voted out. Being a traitor to Morgan will only hurt her. How long do you think Drake is going to keep her, she just proved she isn't loyal and can't be trusted. Who knows maybe it will work, I can easily see Jon trying to get Rupert off, not have any luck and pool his resources with Lil and the remaining Morgans to gain the upper hand. Now that would be a smart move.

Reader234

Sunday, November 09, 2003 - 09:46 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I think what it is about Lil for me is that i can so relate to her, age wise, not fitting in, being left out, forgotten... (that tribal vote) and yet being a smart, functioning member of society... you do want to stand up and shout,kick and scream. Altho the practical me here reading and watching knows its just a game...

Editing and stress, so glad *I*'m NOT the one out there!! At the same time, that's why I like and appreciate Lil...

and thanks for the link Gen, there goes *my theory, shot to heck!! :)

Starshine40

Sunday, November 09, 2003 - 10:38 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Perception/misperception is Lil "assuming" what she thinks was said or not said? 2 different incidents regarding Andrew and Burton with Lil point to this possiblity. Or is it in the editing?

First regarding the incident with Andrew when she says he didn't get back to her before tribal council when she was voted off. Note: Andrew said in his exit chats that Lil had stated in her exit chats that he had gotten back to her and about her telling him she had brought in more firewood, so I went back and looked at the chats.

Lillian's CBS Chat (excerts only)
One of the things he (Ryan S.) said to me was "Don't give up until your torch has been snuffed out. Don't give up, Lil." And he was right.
SNN
Friday, October 3, 2003

Q: Andrew said he'd be up front and let you know if it looked like you'd be the one to go. Did he?

Lil: I think he didn't. You have to understand that Andrew was our leader. He had a lot on his shoulders. Look at our tribe. The strongest member probably seemed to be gone. Dealing with that, dealing with trying to talk Osten into staying. He was also dealing with Ryan O. who was going to him and saying I believe, if you vote off Darrah, our alliance is void. He was dealing also with a tribe who had lost six challenges. That's a lot to bring any leader down and then he hears from Jeff that they usually execute leaders with this kind of track record.

Q: Do you hope that fire goes out and they can't get it going again since they voted you off?

Lil: Well, this is my personality: I knew I was going to be booted off that night. Before I left, I banked the fire, I went out and got small pieces of kindling and put it underneath where I slept so it would be dry. I went to Andrew, I pointed out to him that the kindling when you come back and it's cold, you're wet and it's dark, there's kindling that you just need to put on top of the coals to get the fire going. That's just me. Part of me was very angry, but I was not vindictive enough to want to see them suffer too much.

From Reality News Online
Wearing the Uniform Proudly: An Interview with Survivor’s Lill
by David Bloomberg -- 10/13/2003

RNO: You seemed taken aback that Andrew said to you that he would tell you if you were going and then didn't – did you approach him about it to follow up before Tribal Council?

Lill:I could read the writing on the wall. Andrew approached me, put his arm around me and told me, "you know we love you anyway." Nice, but I knew that was his way of smoothing the way of being voted off. I have no hard feelings for Andrew. He had personal goals, which is understandable. He felt being with the other members would get him further than being with me. He had his hands full trying to bring a losingest tribe in Survivor history together and keeping everyone happy. My heart does go out to him.

Regarding the incident with Burton it happened after the merge after the tribes had eaten and were standing around talking. Burton was talking privately with Lil. I had taped the show and reviewed it this evening to get the exact words spoken (and the convo with Burton and Lil words were shown onscreen also).

Burton to Lil: I talked to these guys and they like you even though they don't know you. If you come over and vote with us....I think we can go really far. REALLY FAR!
Lil to Burton: Are you sure?
Burton: Yes!
Then it shows Lil in confessional where she says: Burton took me aside, he says it's like this, we're going to try to go ALL THE WAY you and I. The Drake tribe wants you and you only. I have to think that maybe he's on the up and up.

I think that just perhaps Lil is "assuming" that what she thinks was said/happened is exactly what happened when in reality it is only her perception of the incident.

Enigma2

Monday, November 10, 2003 - 01:08 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Come to think or it: Has anyone ever seen Lil smile or laugh?

On the one hand, she has already been 'booted' for insufficient reasons. She is probably pondering how she can avoid that being repeated.

And as I speculated on another thread: Lil has decided to make Jon her boy-toy. When she is staring out to sea, she is pondering which knot to use to tie Jon to a tree, so she can have her way with him....

Llkoolaid

Monday, November 10, 2003 - 06:27 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Oh my heck Enigma, the mental picture from your last paragraph made me gag. lol

Lorry

Monday, November 10, 2003 - 06:37 am EditMoveDeleteIP
When I started this thread, I knew what I wanted to say, but I didn't know how to make it clear enough. Soooo, my post sort of made it out that I thought Lil was a poor sport, or that she was just plain crabby.

What I really meant was, that the producers are not showing anything except her "down" times.. her frustration, and her fear of being booted again.

I just wish she could smile a bit... but she probably does smile a lot... and we just aren't being shown it.

However, if I'm wrong, then I want her gagged and bound and dropped over the side... hehehehe I'm soooo evil today...lol

Webkitty

Monday, November 10, 2003 - 07:35 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Thanks for posting that Starshine. I read all the interviews and chats and the Insider, and Lil DID know she was going that night.
Lil also was given a chance to state her case on why she thought she should stay. Many contestants in seasons past never got this opportuinty. No one ever 'gets back' to the person getting the boot.
Lil got far more consideration than most.
Andrew wanted to keep her but got overuled by the rest.
In no way shape or form was she stabbed in the back.
She has no reason to be as bitter and dour as she is.

It was LIL who got off the boat that night and immediately started the accusations and whining, comfirming Morgans fears. SHE caused her own cold reception, and, the morning after attitude of Andrew.

Lil stated in an interview that she had never watched Survivor before she was accepted. She said two of her friends talked her into applying.
This is the crux of the problem, imo. She didn't know the game. She didn't know what to expect. She thought if she went out there and worked hard around camp she would make it far. With a few exceptions, this stategy never works.
Survivor contestants are put in an isolated place with no electricity, no plumbling and little food. The only comfort they have are each other. The first ones off are always the oddballs that the rest feel the most uncomfortable with. This may not seem right to some, but its just the way it is. Even a pretty young girl that showed up in a freaking boyscout uniform would have been looked at askance. Geesh. Why did she even bring it? It was disrespectful for her to even bring the uniform down to Panama in the first place. There was no need, she had stated she brought other clothing for the game.

I have never seen anyone in the history of Suvivor make such a big stink about nothing. She got an unprecidented second chance at the game and she's STILL not happy. Unbelievable. A malcontent to the core. jmo

Sweetpea1994

Monday, November 10, 2003 - 12:38 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think that is all Lil is doing. She does not seem like a happy person. She always has a dour look on her face. It's no wonder Morgan booted her, would you want to sit around and look at that pout all day long.

Edited to add: I also thought the term "sonsofbitches" was very scout like. Do they give out a badge for cursing?

Zgoodgirl

Monday, November 10, 2003 - 12:39 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree with WebKitty. What I didn't know, was that she never even saw the show to begin with? How do people like that even get accepted?

I don't think that I have ever seen Lil smile. And even though I know how editing goes, I really didn't see her try to make any connections with any of the other castaways with the exception of Ryan. Her sticking so tight with Ryan, plus pointing out who did what and how hard, who should stay and why, only isolated herself more. And when she did come back, she only jinxed herself with this 'Woe as me' attitude. She was more disappointed with the fact that she had to come back to her old tribe than as excited and grateful she should have been that she was coming back to begin with.

I really kinda liked Lil, only for the fact that she is an older women, who is honest and hard working. Usually those are the underdog, who don't even get a break to begin with. And I'm all about the underdogs. Unfortunately, I've lost faith in her. I feel that she has no love or respect for the game, and thinks that things should be handed to her if she does what she thinks is a good job. It's OutWit, OutPlay, OutLast; not 'I've been good, gimme a cookie.' She has to realize this is a dog eat dog game, and pouting when things aren't fair is gonna put a target on her back. IMHO, Ryan was the only one who was voted off unfairly. But, than what is fair and unfair in Survivor? Nothing.

Who wears their Boy Scout uniform to a party anyways? That twist was kinda hard for me to believe.

Tabbyking

Monday, November 10, 2003 - 12:43 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
i think it was less a party than a 'publicity photo shoot' and the people were told to dress in something that told about them as a person.

was it in Lil's interview and chats that she said she knew she was going and was given a chance to plead her case, or was it others who said that in their interviews? i didn't see her on any of the programs, so wanted to know if lil said andrew told her she was going.

Zgoodgirl

Monday, November 10, 2003 - 12:53 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Lil pointed out to Andrew last week on the show that he never got back with her before TC to let her know if she was going or not. Andrew did not seem to have a response to this, so apparently he really didn't tell her that she was going to go.
She did do the Early Show though. I thought I read the transcript here. Here is the link for it though: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/03/earlyshow/series/survivor/main576394.shtml

Picture in there of her smiling....don't even look like the woman!

Catfat

Monday, November 10, 2003 - 03:19 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I think Sour Lil goes a long way in this game and uses her money for a major overhaul. That's why she doesn't look like the same person.

Gen

Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 08:30 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I think that seeing Lil not smiling is partly the editing. I'm sure she did smile occasionally like in this pic.

lilsmile

Csnog

Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 12:39 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Do we hold a higher standard for Lil and the other women in the tribe than we do for the men? How often do we see any of them smile?

Is it something that we should judge a person on?

Lorry

Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 01:22 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I doubt anyone is judging Lil based on if she smiles or not...lol I think we are just having some conversation as to why she is not shown smiling, since she should be extremely happy to have another chance to play the game.

We are just tossing around our impressions of her as a player... as a woman... as a person. We are always going to be just guessing, but that's what these boards are for... to wonder, speculate, guess, and discuss... even debate, in a civil manner of course.

Lil's a great gal... feisty, and capable and more than willing to work hard... but it does make a person wonder why in the blue blazes she doesn't smile... or why are they not showing her smile.. inquiring minds want to know... doncha know? rofl

Just teasing... we are all just tossing out our thoughts.

Maris

Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 02:07 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I dont think so Cs, I know that I got tired of her whining about why she wasnt accepted and I was equally tired of Osten's complaining about bugs on a Survivor show..

Guinevere

Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 02:51 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I don't care if she smiles or not - but isn't there a neutral ground between smiling and that horrible frown she is constantly sporting? It makes her look like a 5-year-old who has just been informed that Christmas is canceled.

Caycaye

Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 02:52 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree with Gen...and I really don't think it is "whining" to state the truth of certain injustices....Maybe Lil was shown stating the injustices too much, but I really like her and feel she was entitled to be dusgruntled. I will certainly be surprised if we don't see a MUCH happier Lil, once she realizes she isn't always the "sacrificial lamb" to every Tribal Council.

Csnog

Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 04:55 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I don't think any of them smile much except for Jon and I could do without that one. I think most of them don't smile because of the living conditions. She jumped for joy when the outcast tribe won. It's just that the thread seemed to be going in the direction of not liking her simply because she wasn't smiling. She had a huge decision to make and as a boy scout leader she felt that she was betraying her tribe by voting the way she did. She looked over at her old tribemates while talking to Andrew and saw the 3 of them along with Andrew as a click, with her as the odd man/women out. Does she stay with them and make it to final 5 if possible or take a chance with another tribe?

I'm going to watch and see how many other people smile tomorrow night.

Lorry

Wednesday, November 12, 2003 - 09:51 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
You made some good points for me to think about Csnog... Sometimes I forget there might be another perspective on an incident...lol Maybe I will give Lil another chance before I whine about her again...rofl Thanks

Allietex

Friday, November 14, 2003 - 02:22 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I have a friend who always looks like she is angry, especially when she is being thoughtful. People who do not know her, think she is sour and unfriendly when she is really very nice. It is just the way her face is. When her face is relaxed, the corners of her mouth go down and she looks sour. I have a feeling that Lil has one of those faces. Unless she is actively smiling she looks angy and unhappy. I could be wrong, but she has the same look as my friend.

I doubt very much if she came back and just started in on talking about why she felt left out. I imagine one of the others asked her how she felt about being voted out so she told them how she felt. I don't remember her whining before she was voted out so I don't see her as being a whiner. I see her as just being honest about her feelings. I also don't remember her saying much about it after that night.

I thought the others had talked quite a bit about how hard she worked before she was voted out. She kept the fire going and was always getting wood and water. Too me she seemed the most active of the women on the Morgan tribe.

Lil is not my favorite this year. Rupert is, but I have respected her and hope she goes far.

Meridian

Friday, November 14, 2003 - 05:08 am EditMoveDeleteIP
The old adage "Be careful what you wish for because you just might get it" certainly applies here. The famous frown from frowsy Lil has been turned upside-down into a gruesome grin. Seeing her smile and cackle last night was far scarier than seeing her sour face.

That she has the audacity to scheme against Rupert with Burton really irritates me. Their "scout honor" pledge to each other is nauseating. She, who carried the torch of truth, now feels that dishonesty is acceptable? By willingly engaging in Burton's plan, she condones what she once vehemently protested. Remember her mendacious comments at the IC: "All I did was chat away...." Sanctimonious Lil has proven herself no better than the rest of the Morganites. Where once I thought she might merit support for struggling against unpleasant tribe mates, I sincerely believe she was placed in the right camp from the beginning.

Scorpiomoon

Friday, November 14, 2003 - 06:23 am EditMoveDeleteIP
And can someone explain why she said to Burton, "Don't make me out to be a b-tch..."

And then, later on, she referred to herself as "b-tch", if I'm not mistaken, twice. What is with this woman?

Texannie

Friday, November 14, 2003 - 06:34 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I didn't get that either..but then, I didn't understand that whole challenge at all! LOL