Archive through December 15, 2003
TV ClubHouse: Archive: General Discussions:
Where Did Lil Go Wrong???:
Archive through December 15, 2003
Lorry | Monday, December 15, 2003 - 10:17 am     What is it about Lil that is so annoying? Was it her use of the Boy Scouts and what they stand for, and her blatant disregard for those vows? I don't think she should have been held to those vows, since she was playing a game that depended on being deceitful to win. However, she, not us viewers, not the producers, chose to be a representative of the Boy Scouts. Was it the whining? The crying? The insecurity? What about Lil? Why did she not become the heroine for the older crowd, the Boy Scouts, the female gender? Why do you think she was viewed so negatively? |
Maris | Monday, December 15, 2003 - 10:32 am     The whining and the bawling and turning her back on Rupert. |
Gen | Monday, December 15, 2003 - 10:34 am     Lorry, for me it was the whining and poor me attitude. The facial expressions didn't help, but in some ways she can't help that. Even when she is smiling, she has a somewhat pouty face. The uniform and being a scout leader didn't bother me. In fact, I think the producers encouraged her to wear the uniform for the "photo shoot" the day they were dumped. They wanted to use her position with the Scouts and as a result put her in an awkward situation and she was more than willing to go along with it. |
Marameko | Monday, December 15, 2003 - 10:35 am     I think the emphasis on Lil's uniform had to do with the fact that she was an outcast. In addition underlying frustration that she was back in the game with the new twist. Those things combined "set" her up for a rough way to go. I am certain she is a wonderful person and hardworking. However the woman likes to hear herself talk and those gawd awful faces and crying are big time annoying.I had to keep telling myself that if she won that it was better then Jon winning. |
Bcandscott | Monday, December 15, 2003 - 10:40 am     I think the problem with the Scout thing was that Lil drug it up herself when it suited her, like at breakfast with Burton, doing the little scout's honor salute thing, and then wanted everyone to forgive her for not honoring the "scout code" when she was "playing the game". Can't have it both ways, and I think that duplicity in her nature was what did her in. Well, that and the whining. Hah. |
Catfat | Monday, December 15, 2003 - 10:54 am     Had I been caught wearing that uniform, I would have either taken the patches and stuff off or I would have turned it inside out. It was the whole in-your-face, look how holier-than-thou thing that was so irritating. Other people altered their clothes to suit the island, she should have done the same thing if if bothered her, which it obviously didn't. |
Serate | Monday, December 15, 2003 - 11:05 am     *agrees with catfat* |
Hummingbird | Monday, December 15, 2003 - 11:29 am     I think Lil annoyed us by whinning and being so easily manipulated by all the devious players. I don't get the outrage at a Boy Scout leader trying to play the game. That same attitude was turned on Neleh. "Let us cheat and lie to you all we want, but you have to always play fair because you you represent goodness." Are only people with absolutely no personel standards allowed to play the Survivor game? People who have no priciples of their own to break love calling those who do hypocrites. As for the Scout Uniform, what a durable set of clothing! If you ever have to be out in the elements for weeks on end with no change of clothes, that fabric is ideal. |
Seamonkey | Monday, December 15, 2003 - 12:20 pm     I agree, if she really hated wearing the uniform, as she claimed.. she could have taken off the patches and inside-outed it. And after the merge she could have made a skirt I hated the whining, poor-mouth, pouty attitude and the constant forcing of affection on people.. even last night she kept holding Sandra's hand.. it wasn't a mutual hand-holding. Sandra was clearly fine with hugging Lill but Lill kept sneaking in kisses.. what is her problem? At final TC, my eyebrows raised when she gave as the reason for not voting for SANDRA that Sandra let others tell her how to vote.. all I could see was Lill constantly telling others to just tell her what to do.. During the questioning when one of them called her on trying to blame Burton for her vote for Rupert.. I think she never wanted to own her actions. |
Rabernet | Monday, December 15, 2003 - 12:28 pm     For me, I hated her scowl. I told my bf that she looked like a very unhappy woman. I have a hard time ever remembering her smiling. Even after she kicked Jon off and knew she was F2, no smile at all for her accomplishment. |
Shewho | Monday, December 15, 2003 - 12:30 pm     Catfat: Good point.. If I had been Lill and received all that hostility about my uniform I would have found a way to alter or discard it. Hummingbird: Lill's uniform after her RC with Jon and D seemed so fresh and laundered. Is that material good enough to look so crisp in that climate, and especially when the wearer looked messy and dragged through a knot hole? Unfortunately, IMO, Lill was ganged up on because of the uniform vs. the game strategy. It surprised me that Andrew admitted that last night. I bet every player had some code of values they adhered to in the real world. Because there was no outward indication of a persons value code they weren't judged. To me this Lill bruha is a prime example of judging a book by its cover. |
Lori | Monday, December 15, 2003 - 01:09 pm     I had no problem with the double standard...scout's honor, etc. vs. the lying/deceit of the game. That's the name of the game and no Boy Scout is going to win! I just couldn't stand her whining and just plain miserable attitude. But I am thrilled she picked Sandra over Jon! |
Pantageas | Monday, December 15, 2003 - 01:17 pm     Lil's biggest mistake was...hate to say it...not being too bright. People said things to her that SHE took the wrong way. Not realizing that making friends is sometimes MORE that a 50/50 split as to efforts made. Taking EVERYBODY'S word during the contest as if they were a game expert, letting that cloud her decisions rather than making her own judgements. And finally, if Lil had played the whole game with the mindset she showed in her FINAL speech last night - "it's all B.S.!" - the only reason for Sandra winning 6-1 would have been sour grapes. On the contrary, Lil made herself seem unlikeable, grating and irritating, and lacking in gamesmanship to offset those personality traits. P.S. In Lil's defense - To all the players/viewers who made an issue of Lil's Scouting association - shame on you. I guess Scoutmasters can never play cards, because they may have to bluff? Or never play 'SORRY' because they may have to choose someone to bump back to 'Start'? Or the fact that NOT A SINGLE ONE of the players who made up the jury were planning on taking Lil to the Final 2?? In fact, many of those same players had VOTED FOR HER to be booted at different times?? Instead, she was involved in the moves that sent them all packing, so they're mad at HER?!? Shame on you. |
Woodpecke® | Monday, December 15, 2003 - 01:24 pm     She's selfish, rude, needy, judgemental and her brain isn't up to par. She loves the sound of her own voice and speaks in the third person. Her behavior after receiving the letter was absurd. She cares about herself. In front of the cameras after being with her family and having a chance to regroup, she appeared to find new ways to bore others with her long-winded stories and phony expressions. It was fitting that she handed the money to another player after working for 40 days to become a millionaire. |
Maris | Monday, December 15, 2003 - 01:48 pm     I dont think she was that bad. She got on my last nerve with the whining and crying but for me the scouting thing was a total non issue. Yeah she talked about scouting but Andrew talked about his Armani cut-offs too. She just couldnt play the game. She tried the age pity party and that went over like a lead balloon and she just never figured the game out. She was just too emotional. I think that the primary reason Sandra won was that the booted players admired her loyalty to Rupert and Christa and her focus. It was all about game to Sandra and she never became emotional. That is what all players admire. |
Lumbele | Monday, December 15, 2003 - 02:32 pm     Oh Baby, Baby!!! Oh Baby, Baby!!! Like fingernails on a chalkboard. |
Tabbyking | Monday, December 15, 2003 - 02:34 pm     lil went wrong not taking jon to final 2! at the end, it all came down to that one choice. i am so glad sandra won!! |
Sunshyne4u | Monday, December 15, 2003 - 02:46 pm     You know, I was doing other stuff in my house while 'listening' to the show. (and taping the Last show and ReUnion) Lil's voice was horribly annoying during the Question and Answer portion of the show. She seemed whiney and smug alternately. I hate to say it but her LOOKS and VOICE lost her first prize, in my opinion. ** I was very disappointed in the ReUnion Show... It wasnt as funny or pointed as other years. Indeed, it ended up being the RUPERT show with time wasted working up the crowd into a chant. I was horrified at the special treatment and the complete omission of Rupert attacking Jon. I think Jeff needed to FAIRLY 'call people out' on that last show. It was his JOB!! |
Luvmyjrt | Monday, December 15, 2003 - 03:25 pm     I'm thinking it all started going south when she APPLIED to the show! |
Bobbie_552001 | Monday, December 15, 2003 - 03:43 pm     I agree with Tabby....she made mistakes all the way through the game. But her biggest mistake was not taking Jon along with her. In the end he may have won...but she would have at least a shot at it. |
Jasonfan | Monday, December 15, 2003 - 03:50 pm     I think she could have won at the final tribal council, but not once did she do what the jurors wanted her to do: state flat out-- hey, I played to win, I'm here, you're not. The jurors want to give the vote to someone they can feel somewhat superior to, someone who admits having faults. Lill refused to do that. Plus, she accused Sandra of having no mind of her own, of always having to ask someone else how to vote. That lost her Jon's vote right there. Had she been honest (and not constantly referred to herself in the third person), I think she could have had Burton and Jon's votes, and possibly Ryan's. BTW, I think she would have lost even against Jon. He would have done what Will did in BB2, been honest about his lying. |
Scorpiomoon | Monday, December 15, 2003 - 04:15 pm     I agree with the "not too bright" assessment. I think she believed she understood the game and had control over it when, in reality, she didn't have a clue. |
Reader234 | Monday, December 15, 2003 - 04:53 pm     Stepping out on the plank here... (first I'll give you lil was annoying, whining, crying etc etc, and may not be too 'bright' - along with that neither am I!!) AND... my dh and I are involved in scouting, my ds #1 is an Eagle Scout, ds #2 almost, give him till Fall! So, you cannot take off the 'uniform'. its more something that is a part of you, it may not be 'defining' OK, I should just give up trying to explain because in no way do I want to appear to be defending Lil. Burton is an Eagle Scout, he flamed her for breaking the alliance, Jeff was like, but why cant Lil "play the game?" Burton had higher expectations of Lil, he couldnt accept her as human. She is human, she volunteers for a position, so I get why she wished she hadnt worn the uniform to the photo shoot, she felt she was doing the right thing, and I think she was encouraged (lol at the person who said she went wrong by applying, I think she probably did get this far BECASUE of the uniform, and that is 'unfair' to think, but its just a possibility, my opinion!!) DS gets upset when he's not allowed to have opinions, because he's the "scoutmaster" he's not allowed to think of his kids first, he's the "scoutmaster" etc, etc. He realizes after 5 years, he must step down because of these feelings, the politics of the troop and all... with Lil, she's been there a lot longer, and her kids are not. DH recognized another patch of honor she received (shhh he's up for the same honor, fingers crossed!! lol) and reallized there is more to lil and her volunteering than any of us can imagine. She played a game, because of the uniform, she was penalized for it. However, I dont believe she would have gotten anywhere in the game with out it. I like how Jeff P was defending her and in shock at how the players held HER to a higher standard, and yet, we believe the same thing, because of the uniform you have to place her in that role. I admire the fact she didnt want Jon to receive 100 grand, and so she took the mother - Sandra. It was her choice, and dont you all know, neither Sandra nor Jon would've taken her to the F2!! (and Darrah would've won that challenge, imho!! *g) |
Starshine40 | Monday, December 15, 2003 - 04:57 pm     IMO she was too confrontational at final tribal council in defending herself, she should have taken a softer approach, also should have referred to herself as "I" not "Lil". It made it seem as if she was holding "Lil" up as such a "nice" person. |
Tasia | Monday, December 15, 2003 - 05:06 pm     Not to mention the fact that she had already been voted off the Island once, bringing back the "Outcasts" tribe was not a very popular thing to do for the remaining tribe members and the viewing audience. I think most voted because Sandra lasted the whole 39 days, it didn't matter if Lil was sleeping and eating the same way everyone else still in the game was, she was out of the loop and the interacting with the other players still in the game, which is as much a part of the game as eating is. IMO The whining and crying didn't help nor saying she made decisions all on her own when it was obvious to everyone she freaked out everytime she made a decision on her own which was rare and never seemed to have anything to do with the game. I didn't have a problem with the Boy Scout uniform and I really don't think the tribe members did either, I think they basically tried to get to Lil in the one area where they figured it would hurt the most. |
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