SPOILER 12/04/03
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SPOILER 12/04/03
Hermione69 | Friday, December 05, 2003 - 05:52 am     Although I really like Sandra, too! She's a fireball and so much fun to watch! I do think Darrah is a little dull, but I won't have a problem if she wins. I don't think any of them are undeserving. |
Marameko | Friday, December 05, 2003 - 06:12 am     As long as neither Jon or Burton wins, I am fine. Go Sandra. |
Jrae | Friday, December 05, 2003 - 08:07 am     If the end justifies any means they wouldn't have the "jury of their peers". Burton is quite concerned how the jury perceives him when they get voted off. To not make this part of your strategy is foolish. And to be mean and hateful just for the joy of it - without a purpose even in the game is corrupt and not to be admired. And this describes Jon to a tee. |
Jrae | Friday, December 05, 2003 - 08:12 am     "They've defied all odds and all predictions and are still there. That's pretty darn good game-playing, IMHO." NOT TO MENTION MARK BURNETTS LITTLE GIFT OF A SECOND CHANCE - those two WERE voted off, remember? |
Hermione69 | Friday, December 05, 2003 - 08:27 am     MB can do whatever the heck he wants. It's his game. He writes the script. The Survivors have voted out FIVE people since the Outcasts came back and not one of them was an Outcast. They have no one to cry to about that but each other. |
Grooch1 | Friday, December 05, 2003 - 08:35 am     Very good point, Hermi, that the others could have voted out the outcasts if they wanted to. They really do have nothing to complain about. |
Keepers | Friday, December 05, 2003 - 08:51 am     Herm.. you are absolutely right. As much as I did not like the return of the booted contestants, the others could have easily booted them (of course not in the 1st week - they had immunity or when Burton had immunity). Maybe the others just think they need to go to the end with an outcast because no-one would vote for them to win?? I don't think the other survivors are doing the crying as much as us, the viewers. |
Jami | Friday, December 05, 2003 - 08:53 am     Wow,,,that is a good point Hermi. I don't think the Outcasts twist was the best. But I hadn't thought about the fact that the Outcast would have been voted out if not for game play. So you have made me dislike that twist less. |
Lauram | Friday, December 05, 2003 - 08:57 am     It has nothing to do with liking or not liking the outcasts. I know it is MBs game and he makes the rules but, they were told at their 1st tribal council that "Fire is life and once your torch is snuffed you are out of the game." This was one of the parameters of the game that the cast was playing. So, to me it wasn't fair to let these players return. With these rules/no rules MB can say at the Final Tribal Council that the vote will between the 1st two voted off. They are the true survivors! (Or the 1st two on the Jury!) |
Hermione69 | Friday, December 05, 2003 - 08:57 am     The "jury of their peers," is actually part of my point. Look, for example, at how Richard Hatch won Survivor 1. He was really not a nice person, but the jury decided to award them the money for his game play. So if someone gets to the end and gets the jury to award them the money, their way of playing is totally justified whether that is Jon, Lill, Burton, Sandra or Darrah. The jury is part of the equation and can be tied into the means when they are making their final arguments. Jon could point out how he stayed in despite being despised by so many and he could win their grudging admiration. He has been a MASTER at manipulation and no one can deny that. Lill and Burton could play the Outcast card to their advantage. They have to look at who is going to be judging them and decide whether these people are more likely to award game play or niceness. If they are the sole Survivor, their strategy worked, whether they were nasty or nice. If Jon blows it because of his strategy, then he didn't get the end and his means didn't work. But if he does, then most certainly his end justifies his means. BTW, thanks Grooch. I know I am not very popular this season, LOL! |
Luvmyjrt | Friday, December 05, 2003 - 09:06 am     Me thinks Sandra is purposefully losing IC's to stay under the radar. Notice how "near" her shots are and how "close" she is to winning all of the IC's. Interesting. Also agree with the she votes another way to say she never voted against someone! I like her! Of all the remaining TM's, she is sneaky! Now, if she has a secret alliance with Jon --- the girl is a GENIUS! And has intestinal fortitude I could never muster! |
Cpmfinster | Friday, December 05, 2003 - 09:11 am     Hermione69 wrote:
Quote:the Outcast twist...Isn't it time people got over that??
I'm with you. The outcasts are in the game, so, get over it. It happened, like it or not. It's sort of like watching a tie baseball game and the umpire calls your favorite player out at home plate, and you think he's safe. Is your team winning now because you think the umpire was wrong? Did you lose the game because of the umpire? Nope! Right or wrong, safe or out, like it or not, the umpires decision was final. And while you disagree, it's part of the game. You've got to live with it and try to score the winning run with your next batter...despite the umpire. |
Hermione69 | Friday, December 05, 2003 - 09:16 am     I'm really not trying to pick on anyone; it is just that I can't believe that people are still stewing about the Outcast twist. The Survivors are also told to expect anything. I believe MB was totally within his rights. Do I AGREE with it? Not necessarily. Is it FAIR? Sure. Anything goes in Survivor. I'm sure that the first time MB switched tribe members caused some people to be voted out that wouldn't have been voted out anyway. Was that FAIR? Sure. Part of good game playing is being able to roll with the punches, or the twists in this case. I think the viewers are far more outraged by this than the Survivors. Are the Survivors keeping them around so they can beat them at the final TC? I'm not so sure of that anymore. In fact, they were talking about voting Lill out last night because they think she would win in the end, not because she is an Outcast. I haven't heard any Survivor rallying to get rid of the Outcasts in quite awhile. Read what Tijuana said in her chat-- ColbyIsTheMan: Of those left, who in your mind does not deserve to win? Tijuana: My first response to that would be the Outcast tribe members that were previously voted out. That's off of emotion, but in thinking about what this game means--don't expect anything. Truly all of them are deserving now because they lasted longer than myself. So, I have a respect for everyone that's still left in the game and as a result, whoever wins the million dollars deserves it nonetheless. Tijuana is a class act. CPM, good analogy. Luv, I agree and I think Sandra is playing an awesome game. |
Grooch | Friday, December 05, 2003 - 09:24 am     I think MB is trying to do anything he can think up of, so that there isn't the usual boring pagonging (that we used to complain about)that used to happen when the tribes merged in seasons past. It seems to be working, too. |
Hermione69 | Friday, December 05, 2003 - 09:29 am     You are right, Grooch! There has been NO pagonging this time! Cool!! Alliances are flip-flopping everywhere! It has been great fun to watch! I think this is the most I have posted in General Discussion in one morning since the show started. As much as I have enjoyed it, I think I need to go get some work done now! |
Keepers | Friday, December 05, 2003 - 09:44 am     Hermi, great post, I agree with everything you said. I am one who did not like the return of the outcasts, but your posts above definitely put everything into perspective. Tijuana is a definite class act. |
Guinevere | Friday, December 05, 2003 - 01:09 pm     I'm not "stewing" about the twist, but still essentially don't like the idea of a person who got two chances to play winning the game, when the other contestants only got one. I don't expect the game to be "fair", but all in all I'd prefer not to see someone who was given that particular advantage win. I freely admit that I might feel differently if the "second-chanced" person was, say, Ryan O, as opposed to arrogant Burton or whiny Lill. |
Pamy | Friday, December 05, 2003 - 08:28 pm     Hermie!!! you are always one of my favs!!! I think more of us like Jon's game that ya think. I know he entertains me and at this point, I want him or sandra to win! |
Fanny | Friday, December 05, 2003 - 08:36 pm     Hermie, you are always popular with me. And ditto what Pamy said. |
Allietex | Friday, December 05, 2003 - 10:32 pm     I agree. I did not like Jon's lie, though I recognize it was probably a smart move. I guess one thing that bothered me was how much fun he had doing it. I'll admit that disturbed me a bit. If I was MB, I would elimanate the loved ones visit and have it as a contest and a visit off the island like the first season. That would take care of Jon's kind of stunt. The Outcasts did not bother me in the least because that was the rules for this season. The survivors don't know all the rules in advance because part of the game is to expect the unexpected. I think it keeps the game fresh to throw in new twists. I have not always liked them, but they almost always shake up the game and make it more interesting in the long run. Now about Jon, I just don't like <el>, I don't like his smugness, I don't like the smirk on his face, and I don't like the delight he takes in his meanness. He may be playing a good game, but so are all the others or they would not still be there. I do not want him to win. |
Whoami | Saturday, December 06, 2003 - 10:19 am     I think you hit the nail on the head on what bugs me about Jon too Allie! Its the delight he gets from his meanness. Perfect way to describe it. Yes, his antics are aiding him in playing a good game, but his "aren't I just the most brilliant person ever to play the game" attitude that bugs the heck out of me. |
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