Archive through November 07, 2003
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TV ClubHouse: Archive: General Discussions: Andrew's Attitude: Archive through November 07, 2003

Immunity_Man

Friday, October 31, 2003 - 07:38 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I like Andrew (Savage). I really do. He's not the best leader in the history of the game, but he does seem like the kind of guy who'd do what he could for his Morgan team in a pinch.

But I don't think I like what he said about the other 6 people from the Outcast tribe. He something to the effect of "those 6 don't deserve to be here" and "I don't wanna see that Skinny Ryan coming back to this tribe" and "they have no right to be here." Those comments did not sit well with me. Ryan would be a better asset to his team than pitiful Osten and if the shoe was on the other foot and Andrew had been one of the 6 voted out, do you really think he would turn down the opportunity to make a come back and say, "Well, I had my chance. I'll pass."? No, I don't think he would. I'll just chalk his comments up to hunger and having no fishing skills to provide for his tribe.

IM

Whit4you

Friday, October 31, 2003 - 08:07 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Well I totally understand why Andrew feels the way he does, all the USA BB contestants (and the OZ bb contestants) felt the same about someone coming back in (or new coming in halfway through) - he'll probably warm up to the person though assuming it' a Drake member.

I love the twist - it makes for a great show - however I think they should have had to choose to live under the same conditions as the better of the two teams (ie exactly as Drake was living) ... the two coming back in have such a huge advantage if they aren't targetted the week after their immunity. Chances are they won't be because there will be a merge... and there will be bigger fish to fry (both teams wanting to keep there group with larger #'s and trying to get the outcast on there side etc....)

Bcandscott

Friday, October 31, 2003 - 08:07 am EditMoveDeleteIP
You know, I think Andrew's comments about people not deserving to be there (like he thought Osten deserved to be there while he sent Ryan and Lil home, eh??) and making everyone promise to get rid of them as soon as possible, etc., were far more unsportsmanlike than Rupert's outburst at Jon that has everyone in an uproar about Rupert. Andrew seems to be a master of the blame game. It's RyanO's fault for not fishing enough and not being as good at fishing as Rupert. It's always someone else's fault. While I give him a lot of credit for hanging in there with that pole and the weights to win immunity last week, I was NOT impressed by his reaction to a game twist that everyone has to live with, like it or not.

Bastable

Friday, October 31, 2003 - 08:16 am EditMoveDeleteIP
As Whit4You pointed out, we have seen this before during BB3-- it was called Operation Revolving Door, and despite all the plans to get rid of whomever game back, she ended up staying for another five weeks--longer than she had played the game before being evicted the first time! So he can talk big, but in these games, you can't plan to get rid of a returning player if there are bigger fish to fry when it comes time to actually evicting someone.

Whit4you

Friday, October 31, 2003 - 08:17 am EditMoveDeleteIP
BC - he's been stuck for days eating nothing but a tiny bit of sand ridden rice and beans and you think he's being a poor sport for thinking (in the heat of the frustration of the moment) that someone who's had plenty of sleep, rest, protein, fruit, and so on (those outcast looked as healthy as the first day they were there)

His team just found out there was not going to be a merge but instead this was happening. Remember the only thing they have left now to eat are some old beans... of course he was disappointed there was no merge, no reward challenge and some well rested person who'd gotten voted out would come back with another chance for the million. It's a strategy that makes sense to say - lets not give that person a stronghold and lets vote them out. I don't see it as poor sportsmanship to suggest that... why would HE want to give this voted out well rested player a foothold ... or not vote them out - I don't see that as poor sportsmanship, it's a game of survival and that's what he's trying to do against all ods.

Ladytex

Friday, October 31, 2003 - 08:19 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I hope Burton comes back and goes to Morgan. Can you imagine Savage and Burton trying to co-exist? That could be very entertaining ...

March

Friday, October 31, 2003 - 08:20 am EditMoveDeleteIP
BC, well said. Glad other people have been seeing that about Andrew. Everything bad that has happened to that tribe has NEVER been his fault. After last week I thought he was finally going to change, oh well.

Immunity_Man

Friday, October 31, 2003 - 08:35 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Whit4you, I can understand him feeling like he and his tribemates were at a disadvantage and not wanting to let someone with more sleep and more protein in their system come take everything away from them, BUT my point is that he said they had no right to be there etc.

I just think that comment was harsh considering he knows he would do EXACTLY the same thing if he was voted out and had a chance to come back. He would jump on that opportunity like Rupert on a trout.

Meli456

Friday, October 31, 2003 - 09:33 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Last night, when Andrew kept harping on Ryan for not catching fish, I just yelled at the screen "Go fishing then!". I can't stand Andrew, but he did get good editing last week. Did anyone notice that he made some goofy looking old man faces last night during the confessionals?

Zules

Friday, October 31, 2003 - 09:39 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Didn't Jeff say that the returning tribe members had also been living on limited rations, and in similar living conditions, etc.?

Csnog

Friday, October 31, 2003 - 09:48 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Andrews spouting may be the end of his storyline.

Ladytex

Friday, October 31, 2003 - 10:48 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Yes, he did say that they had been on limited rations, but then the food groups he named off were more than Morgan had been surviving off of.

Kappy

Friday, October 31, 2003 - 06:23 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
They might have been living on limited rations but one look at them was enough to tell just how good they've had it. When I originally heard about this twist, I could only see it as being fair if the returnees had to fish for their own food, build their own shelter, not be allowed showers, sleep on the ground, etc., but that's not what happened. These people are clean and well fed not to mention very well rested. And now they get to enter the merge and the individual challenges with that kind of advantage ~ Totally unfair in my book. Andrew might not have expressed it in the best way but I completely understand his frustration. So I guess I'm as bad of a sport as Andrew is, lol!

Maris

Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 01:53 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I disliked Andrew in the early part of the series but after this week I have to admit he is growing on me (a sure sign that he will be going pronto).

Llkoolaid

Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 07:31 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
He is growing on me too Maris, I sure admired him in the competition with the weights. He has been trying to keep moral up and I think with Osten gone things will be better for him. Funny how you dislike some players at first and then begin to really appreciate them and the Ones you love begin to slowly let you down.

Muse

Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 07:55 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I don't blame Andrew. I think it's unfair that the booted players have a chance to return, too. Andrew sounded kind of cranky in expressing it, but I could see why someone living in the conditions they're living in could be extra emotional about the whole thing. I think he also feels an extra sense of pressure and responsibility for the tribe since he's their leader, so feeling like something (or someone) is threatening that (both his tribe and his leadership) is bound to make him react.

Caycaye

Sunday, November 02, 2003 - 08:11 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
I agree Llkoolaid and Maris....I am liking Andrew more, and now instead of just disliking him, I realize where he comes from more....I think. But I still am thinking that his "tunnel-vision" concerning certain people's abilities, may cost him this game.

I was discussing football with my dad (an old football coach retiree)...(Stay with me here...LOL) And he was talking about a particularly "gifted" athlete that NEVER seemed to "produce" for his team or himself. Big disappointment for a lot of people......and how this happens all of the time in sports. Anyway....after he made an analogy for the way a certain coach "stuck with" this kid as first string waaaayy after everyone else realized that no matter how gifted, strong, muscular, etc...this kid was....he would NEVER amount to much and was costing the team game after game....My dad (a VERY successful career coach) said that lots of times in his career, that type of scenario came up, and all some of the asst. coaches could say was..."but he has so much POTENTIAL!" My dad would always tell his assistants..."I have seen more head coaches LOSE their jobs by depending on kids with POTENTIAL! HEART is by FAR, more important than God-given natural ability"...And if a coach is not open-minded enough to see when he is wrong about someone, it can cost him his career.

And I thought of OSTEN and how, ANDREW was guilty of the "not so good coach" syndrome of not being able to realize in time (until you had a losing season and possible loss of job) that all of that POTENTIAL you counted on COST you the games!!!
We all must realize by now that probably Lillian and maybe even Nicole and Skinny Ryan have more HEART than Osten ever did...and probably would have done MUCH better in challenges as a whole. And STILL after Osten quit, Andrew doesn't seem to be able to BELIEVE that Lil or Ryan DESERVE to be out there with HIM!! I mean, come on Andrew...they DO have heart...why do they not DESERVE to be there? True, they are not "gifted" athletically, and show little outward potential...but LISTEN to how determined they can be.

Andrew would probably be a losing coach...and probably lose many coaching jobs....maybe he will lose himself his spot on Survivor soon. (His own fault) in my opinion.

Zules

Monday, November 03, 2003 - 11:00 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Okay, maybe I'm a little nutty because you guys all keep saying that the returning tribe members looked so good.

After reviewing my tape, I still thought they all looked pretty tired and like they were in pretty bad shape.

Mind you, I don't think it's totally fair assuming they didn't have to hunt for their own food, etc. as Kappy stated above. I just don't think they were fed all that well and none of them looked as though they'd been sleeping on new mattresses and feather pillows.

What I did think was really unfair was that they didn't have to sit anyone out of the challenge.

All that said, fair or unfair, it makes for great TV and I, for one, applaud that!

My longest post ever....going back into lurk mode now.

P.S. Great post, Caycaye!

Llkoolaid

Monday, November 03, 2003 - 11:28 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Zule, please come out of lurk and play, the more the merrier.

I agree Caycaye that Andrew wasn't successful with Osten but I think he did try.

Konamouse

Monday, November 03, 2003 - 02:56 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Andrew reminds me a little of Mike (Australia) in his attitude (but not in his ability to find food for his tribe).

'squeek'

Puzzled

Monday, November 03, 2003 - 08:06 pm EditMoveDeleteIP
Cayecaye--I totally agree.

Zules

Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 08:02 am EditMoveDeleteIP
Okay, Llkoolaid, here I am again and twice in one week! I'm really looking forward to tonight's show and seeing which outcasts end up back in the tribes. Not to mention how they will be treated by their tribemates! Should be interesting.

Kep421

Thursday, November 06, 2003 - 09:13 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I don't think the lack of food or rest had anything to do with Morgan losing this last competition. What actually put the Outcasts in the winner's circle was the extra fabric they had to make their stick with. The only reason Drake lost was because The Outcasts' stick was stronger.

Drake is also on limited food, but they aren't underfed and weak from lack of food. I honestly don't believe the Outcasts were given any more food than Drake was able to gather for themselves. The only "unfair" thing I see is that the Outcasts MAY have been given the food while Drake had to gather their own.

Morgan's underdog status when it comes to lack of food is Morgan's fault. Pure and simple. I have no sympathy for them on this issue. The entire team was lazy as hell from day one. Morgan could have been better competitors in this game (on all levels) had they bothered to get off their LAZY BUTTS and do something besides whine!!!

One thing that bugs me more than anything in this game is laziness. I hated the lazy mallrats in the Outback series, and the Morgan tribe is running a VERY CLOSE second to them.

Jkm

Friday, November 07, 2003 - 07:13 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I'm going to miss Andrew or "Savage" as Jeff called him -- I disagreed with his assessment of skinny Ryan, Lil an Osten -- he had them all wrong and backwards ---

If they would have ditched Osten earlier - I think it would have changed the entire tribe!

But as a player -- to me -- he came a across as that kid that comes to all the practices, does all the drills, tries the very best he knows how -- and still never gets to play in the big game --

And yes -- he's sexy too --

I really thought he and Rupert had a connection - guess it was better for Rupert to be loyal to drake a while longer.... I was beginning to think it would be those two in the end.

Kep421

Friday, November 07, 2003 - 08:11 am EditMoveDeleteIP
I liked Andrew... and actually felt sorry for him. I think he did misjudge his own tribe, but he honestly thought he was doing what was right and best for himself and his tribe. He had the ability and opportunity to make Morgan a strong tribe, if only he hadn't put all his hopes on Osten. I couldn't believe how often he just kept doing all the wrong things...but you have to give him kudos. He kept a positive attitude and never gave up!! For that, Andrew will always be a good guy in my eyes...